The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting What's The Difference Between Hunting and Shooting?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Anything that comes close to the original hunting of days gone by.If there is nothing but fenced ranch hunting left and I could bring my own rifle then be it.I can't change the world but I can change the way I feel about what is acceptable hunting.What one can afford too-that is very important on how one sees things. | |||
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Call it what you want,it's your dime and conscience. Personally I like getting as close as I can, and shooting mature animals. What others do as long as it complies with game laws is fine with me! .......................................................................   ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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There's the rub Mac. What others do does impact you. Mike | |||
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This is what the difference is to me Hunting= tracking/stalking an animal for the purpose of shooting an animal Shooting = shooting an animal Hunting is a means to an end (shooting an animal) and the first part of it is a personal experience, some like the hunting more, others like the shooting more. I personally like stalking and tracking an animal but after 3 hours of stalking an animal through the toughest terrain imaginable and I have that animal in my crosshairs, what happens next is no different than the effect of the guy that shoots the same animal from a truck in a 1 acre camp. Up to the shooting part, hunting is a personal, self gratifying experience and has no direct effect on other people or animals. The consequence of hunting and shooting an animal is the same as just shooting an animal. So who am I to judge others... Victor Watson Karoo Wild Safaris Email: info@karoowildsafaris.co.za Cell: (+27) 721894588 www.karoowildsafaris.co.za | |||
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I agree with Victor Watson's definition. Some of the most memorable hunting experiences I've had, I was skunked. dave | |||
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From Tryst with Tigers by Sher Jung "The jungle is the place to test one’s mettle and one’s skill. It is a place for personal and individual adventure. To tackle the adversary on the ground of it’s own choosing and to outwit it in it’s own game of woodcraft is the real joy and thrill of hunting. Always remember that hunting is not just killing animals, it is much more than killing; Killing is the least important part of it." | |||
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hunting is everything that happens before the shooting  | |||
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If there was no shooting, it would not be called hunting. If there is no killing, it would not be called hunting. Sure, one can go on a particular hunt, and not shoot anything. But that is not the idea of hunting at all. If there was not a very high chance of shooting anything, would you spend all that money and go hunting?? Why bother ask about what is the best countries and areas for a specific animal? Might as well go to Siberia to hunt cape buffalo then! Or Zimbabwe to hunt polar bear! Bloody hell, some of you do make me laugh  | |||
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I call that an Armed Bushwalk Danger and Death dance to the wild music of the gale, and when it is night they dance with a fiercer abandon, as if to allay the fears that beset the sailorman who feel their touch but see them not George H Grant | |||
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But it sounds so cool when you say hunting is not the same as killing. I do believe some really think it makes them something there not by saying it. Lets face it hunting is killing but we may do it for more then that. If not there should be some cheap guns for sale and guys should start buying cameras to do there HUNTS and not kill. I know every time I go hunting my goal is to kill what I am after. Also to enjoy my time out in nature and enjoy it all but killing something is the end goal | |||
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"One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted...If one were to present the sportsman with the death of the animal as a gift he would refuse it. What he is after is having to win it, to conquer the surly brute through his own effort and skill with all the extras that this carries with it: the immersion in the countryside, the healthfulness of the exercise, the distraction from his job." ~ Jose Ortega y Gasset Mike | |||
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yes all the above quotes and parts of book are so cute but remember we don't hunt tigers anymore more and if killing is not the end goal take a camera not a gun or bow. After all the only things the anti's want to stop is the killing part not the hunting part then. The dream world is nice and maybe what some need to sleep better but the other side does not care how nice you make it seem. Hunting equals killing in the end plain and simple Also mike you may want to check your own quotes you list because your one is all about shooting an elephant not hunting one to shot one is what make a man life full. Pretty funny and makes my point for me. | |||
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This is not a quote I use and is everything your saying is not hunting. Don't think it reads to walk or see or to hunt one it said to shot one. I wonder if he also meant shooting pregnant elephants makes your life full. Like I said you can act a part but killing is hunting if you like it or not. | |||
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Bloody hell, that rich! What makes YOUR opinion any better than anyone else's? Quoting people from the past is not going to change anyone's mind of what THEY consider hunting is. I keep repeating it. It is the individuals money he is spending, and he can bloody well spend it as he pleases. | |||
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. . . pretty sad statement candidly. If you think hunting and killing are synonymous . . . well I feel sorry for you.  Mike | |||
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Mike, Let me ask you a question. Do you ask anyone else for approval when you go hunting? Would you stop hunting if someone objected to your hunt?? | |||
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Depends on who asked and what their objection was . . . Mike | |||
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Ultimately, the killing part is in us and hunting in order to kill is the original tool to make it happen BTW My own quote Gee Ladies, easy there, life is good... " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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This is a personal issue. It all depends on how you feel in your self and if the kill gives you some self satisifation. I have both shot and hunted. I have culled animals from a helicopter where they cannot escape and enjoyed the experience. I have had trophy animals in my sights after many hours of stalking and not taken the shot because I did not want to take it. Both have give me great satisifation. It is personal and do not tell me what should feel OK for me. | |||
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Folks, it seems like some of us are trying to reinvent the wheel, rewrite the dictionary or redefine two particular words here. There have been definitions for the words "hunt" and "kill" for as long as the English language have been in existence. The following definitions are available on the first page of Google: Hunt (1) "pursue and kill (a wild animal) for sport or food" (2) "to chase or search for (game or other wild animals) for the purpose of catching or killing" Shoot (1) "kill or wound (a person or animal) with a bullet or arrow" (2) "hit, wound, damage, kill, or destroy with a missile discharged from a weapon" (3) "to fire a bullet or an arrow, or to hit, injure, or kill a person or animal by firing a bullet or arrow at him, her, or it" (4) "To hit, wound, or kill with a missile fired from a weapon" So based on the above definitions - the answer to the original question is fairly simple. "Hunting" is an activity that involves the pursuing or chasing of something with the aim of catching or killing it whilst "shooting" is the act of firing a missile towards something or someone. One can also "shoot" at a target with the aim of hitting "it"... The latter form of "shooting" can have nothing to do with "hunting". Interestingly enough - nowhere in the definition of the word "hunting" is any reference made to a fence or to the size of an area where such activity must take place to make it a "hunt" and nowhere in the definition does it refer to whether an animal was released prior to the activity or not... "Hunting" is defined simply the act of chasing or pursuing with the intention to kill or capture ... The problem as I see it is that we humans seem too have an overwhelming, overpowering and inherent need to criticise others and find fault with whatever whoever else does or find acceptable. Why that is I don't know. It's probably just human nature but in the bigger scheme of things so totally unnecessary... It should actually quite simple. If you are opposed to the idea of a particular form of hunting (e.g. behind behind high fence) - don't. And if you're not - do. If you don't mind hunting a lion bred in captivity behind high fence - go ahead and do it and if you are not - don't. My personal preference is not to - NOT because PHASA said I shouldn't and not because I don't find it sporting - but simply because I have a mind of my own and choose not to... And because I choose not to does not mean that I need to try and convince others that they shouldn't either. It is unfortunate that the hunting world has become as divided as it has. Some "hunting purists" feel that it is their place and responsibility to inform fellow hunters what constitutes "real hunting" is and what does not. And in many instances; their words are accepted as gospel by people who simply don't know any better. In the process; those on the other side of the line feel the need to justify themselves for what they do and how they do things... And in the end all the misinformation that is passed around does little else than just dividing us even more... United we stand, divided we fall... Regards, Chris Troskie Tel. +27 82 859-0771 email. chris@ct-safaris.com Sabrisa Ranch Ellisras RSA www.ct-safaris.com https://youtu.be/4usXceRdkH4 | |||
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Here is the reality check - if you continue to see shooting as hunting , start accepting hunting in Africa north of South Africa is finished . The debate is very relevant as PHASA is under defence for finally taking a stand against captive bred lion shooting ( notice not hunting ) . Facebook is burning with this discussion and court cases are in motion , such is the difference of opinion. The fact that every professional hunting and outfitting association in Africa has opposed captive bred lion killing is not been accepted by the quick gain canned lion brigade. Many of the responses were very astute in the above posts to the definition of killing hunting and shooting , sadly many are still OK with shooting being called hunting . | |||
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 in one word: effortUSMC Retired DSC Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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The problem with the "laissez-faire" approach to hunting . . . it ignores the reality that someone's decision to engage in an unethical or questionable hunting practice may very well impact another person's ability to hunt. Mike | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Safaris Botswana Bound: Here is the reality check - if you continue to see shooting as hunting , start accepting hunting in Africa north of South Africa is finished . No here is the reality check. Keep taking the anti's side because you don't like something and all of hunting is done all over the world. Giving in on raised lions means nothing as there will always be the next animal for them to save. They already had divide us which some people just don't get is there plan in the first place. Maybe you should stick to hunting bostwana since they have such great hunting. Oh shit wait there is no hunting there unless it is behind fence. Dam the raised lions that everyone hunted in bostwana for ruining hunting there. | |||
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Mike this seems to be your canned response regarding any discussion involving hunting ethics and/or the type of hunting employed. You seem really fixated and concerned about what outsiders have to say about hunting - like your dinner party analogy. So a few question if you will: Are you under the impression that anti hunters really care how an animal is shot, the caliber used, the type of bullet, bullet placement, high fenced, low fenced, no fence, age, naturally occurring or purchased at market, hand fed or self fed, completely wild or semi-accumulated? Do you believe that we as hunters can reason with the anti hunter movement - not the individual but the money and political might behind the movement? Do you believe their end game is simply to impose a strict doctrine of hunting ethics while preserving our hunting culture? Do you believe that if we throw the anti's a bone (captive bred lion for instance) that they will go away? Do you believe we can stop the movement by imposing stricter hunting ethics? How much experience have you had working with domestic or foreign governments on establishing quotas and preserving hunting rights from a regulatory standpoint? Have you encountered the other side - again, not the individual but the money folks and political folks leading the anti hunting movement? ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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I do not believe we will change the mind of an anti hunter no more than they will change my mind about hunting. I do believe the majority of the population is neither anti hunt or pro hunting. They accept the fact we hunt and are not overly concerned about it. These are the people of which we need to be concerned. Turn them anti hunting for any reason including what is viewed as unethical practices and we will have a problem. I also will not pretend to have the answers to all ethical issues. What amazes me is the refusal by many to even discuss it. | |||
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But will winning the heart and mind of little Miss Suzie Soccer Mom in Texas going to make any difference in what is happening on the ground in Africa or with the decision makers at USF&W? Do you believe public opinion is driving the organized anti hunter movement or the money and power players behind it? I would say you have about as much luck converting Nancy Pelosi to becoming a God fearing Reagan Conservative as you would stopping the power players behind the anti hunter movement. This is not a popularity contest issue. ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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I'm not trying to convert anybody...I simply want the canned lion industry to clean itself up and set some standards. If you go inside of a small fenced area and shoot a lion that was trucked in a couple days ago..you're a D-bag...period. It might be your right..as of now..but rest assured you're a lazy turd. Hopefully that was plain enough for everyone to understand. Yep..too much coffee......  | |||
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I would prefer the soccer mom to remain nuetral than funding anti hunting organizations. Money and lots of it will get things done here and abroad. I saw that with the red snapper debacle in the Gulf of a Mexico. As a recreational fisherman I spoke at Gulf Council meetings and fellow fisherman presented a great case for our season and quotas. However the commercial guys were better organized with a strong lobby in DC and ultimately the NMFS gave them what they wanted. It was all about money and political power. However public opinion can effect us. After the Cecil the lion hunt we saw Delta fold on shipping trophies with several other airlines. And surely it had an impact on the decision to basically ban lion imports or at the very least gave them an excuse. | |||
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I think the fight is not about winning over or appeasing anti-hunters. I believe, because I have seen the data, that the general public is not anti-hunting. Most are indifferent, agnostic, ambivalent or ignorant toward and of hunting. However, I also believe that when the general public is exposed to practices that are highly questionable . . . like canned lion hunts . . . their impressions of hunting are tainted and they become increasingly skeptical of hunting as a proper endeavor. Finally, I believe that hunting will not survive without the large segment of the population that is neither pro-hunting nor anti-hunting remaining at worse indifferent, agnostic, ambivalent or ignorant toward and of hunting. So yes, I believe that ethical practices are essential to the preservation of hunting . . . just as ethical practices are critical to the survival of virtually all other endeavors. Mike | |||
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This sums it up for me "I don't think I should decide the answer for you and don't want you deciding for me" Jerry Huffaker State, National and World Champion Taxidermist | |||
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Bottom line is your killing an animal.Where does one draw the line as to what is ethical or not?Is it when there is 100yds,200yds,500yds,1km,10km... of bush behind the animal? Is it when the animal is truly wild and never been relocated etc... What if wild space becomes nearly inexistent? | |||
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Then hunting has no purpose and all you have left are farmers. | |||
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No you have private landowners raising wildlife for a reason. | |||
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"private landowners raising wildlife" are called farmers! and the purpose would be to make money off of guys like you! | |||
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Does there have to be snow for you to celebrate Christmas? Do you have to live in a rural village? Do you have to be young and believe that Santa will come down your chimney? | |||
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Do you have a point? It's so much easier for the reader.... | |||
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Heym - There are places in Africa that will never be fenced in our lifetime or the next. For instance there is 162,000 square kilometers (62,500 square miles) of Conservancy land in Namibia that will never be high fenced and will remain largely wilderness area. It defines what fair chase hunting is all about. In regards to winning over the general public opinion, it's largely a meaningless discussion. They are not the driving force nor the funding behind the anti hunting movement. In fact, much of the money that is supporting anti hunting efforts is European money and influence. Many are the same folks behind the PETA movement. If anyone believes that somehow we are going to sufficiently impose some incredibly acceptable standard of ethics that will appease this crowd, I would suggest you are only deluding yourself. And the more that we push the fantasy that this is a popularity contest, the more ground that the anti movement takes. ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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Yes.When there is nothing wild left,I will go to a farm with my double and shoot a buff and pretend I was in the Zambezi valley.You can't take the hunting spirit away from me.  | |||
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No they would be called ranchers or landowners. farmers raise crops. Do you really think the guys who have unfenced gov. areas spend money only because they care about wildlife. If they did not make money off guys like you that come hunt and shot stuff.They would not be spending in there areas either. Dam I just don't get how some off you think. But the more I see I realize why we get are ass handed to us by the antis and we just keep losing rights. | |||
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