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On this scenario, we absolutely agree! However, there are ranches that have high fences that are holding captive animals. meaning that can't escape the property. These IMO are not put and take animals as you describe, but are free to roam the whole property and most are born on the property. They are as wild as they would be anyplace, and as long as they can sustain themselves without feeding, and free to bread and have plenty of cover, and escape routes, are not handled by people as they would be in a zoo. I don't see these animals as anymore tame than a muledeer with hundreds on miles of open mountains or those trapped on an island in the Alaska inside passage. I don't think you will find many hunters that would consider brown or black bears or deer on Kodiak or POW Island to be at a disadvantage for the hunter to have an unfair condition that would place them in the CANNED SHOOTER not HUNTER prey. There are many high fence properties in Texas that are larger than POW island, and though some of the game there are not native to the USA, they are native to that property most being born there from long ago stocking. I just don't think you can place all properties with a high fence as CANNED shooting. Many properties in RSA are very large and rough country, and will work a hunter to get his game. .......................................................................  True CANNED HUNTING is an abomination and I agree it should be illegal. ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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I agree with you that the animal needs a period of wilding for it to be a hunt. What it needs to be, I have no idea. Whatever it takes for the animal to behave like one. For captive raised birds would you have a problem with them being set in the field a few minutes before the hunter starts? Or does it require an hour or so? Or do you want them to be out for a season? While not hunting, what about driven bird shooting, or live pigeon shoots? What I am getting at is different animals and different activities have different rules. Personally, I would think it would take longer to acclimate a lion, as an example, than an impala, than it would a pheasant, than it would a pigeon. Now, just because I don't think it is hunting, walking up and shooting domestic livestock should not be banned...even in a kill chute, but certainly if the guy I buy my beef from started calling it a hunt, I would decline to participate in it (unless it cut my price down),but I know he usually puts his cattle down with a .22 LR in the chute. If I know that I am buying beef and am going to pull the trigger myself, it isn't a hunt, it's a financial transaction between me and a farmer... but if we start calling down regulation on hunting based on some arbitrary standard, could how I get my beef be a subject of this situation? How about if I decide I want eland for meat and I go to Texas and shoot one in a field? We both know it's not a hunt, but unless I miss my guess, it's the same rules as a full on exotic hunt under Texas law. Should another group get involved because it's an eland instead of a steer? The issue then becomes what it was stated as being. Your hunting ethics are what they are by you. If I paid what these canned hunting outfits charge for a lion hunt and got a just released, drugged and sleeping cat, I was not provided a hunt, which is what I wanted. False advertising. It may well be that adequate wilding results in the hunt costs being too much for the current market to bear. On the other hand, while it's disengenuous, if what I want is a lion rug and a photo op to make me look like the great white hunter...while being able to say I shot a Botswana cattle killer who snuck across the border once I get home, I may be a lying SOS, but with lying not being illegal, what is going to be done about it? It was not a hunt, and from a legal standpoint it never was intended to be so. I will admit, I have never heard someone state they shot an animal just to have a mount of it, and didn't care how they did it, but I do know of at least one guy who has a huge mule deer mount that he talks up stories about how he shot it, but it was really a purchased mount. In other words, really, hunting is what you make of it; and trying to regulate it so that no one gets upset is impossible. We cannot deal with what others do for some hidden agenda. That is why I am on the side of more rules will not really help anything, and may well hurt us all. If I could mandate truth in statements, this whole issue would go away- but I can't, and it won't. | |||
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Legality and personal ethics are two very different animals. We as " sportmen" have our individual understanding as to what hunting it. That being said I will never push my beliefs or even offer them up unless asked. Hope everyone has/had a safe hunting season and look forward to seeing y'all outside the fence next year... | |||
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There is a saying in business, pigs get fat but hogs get slaughtered. Essentially standing for the proposition that if you get too greedy or excessive in practices you stand to lose it all. There are countless examples of how this paradigm has been proven true over and over. Hunting is no exception. If we want to engage in questionable and unreasonable practices, if we fail to self regulate ourselves, if we each take the view that what others do is none of our damn business, if we turn a blind eye to situations that are offensive to large segments of the population . . . then we should not be surprised, and will have no one else to blame but ourselves, when we see legislative and regulatory efforts that impose restrictions on the rights of all hunters. Mike | |||
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And there is another saying in life - give an inch and lose a mile. ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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And if we clearly state that wild populations are regulated as hunting, and captive/ranched populations are agribusiness? Seems to solve the problem without getting in the wilding/time length issue and gets the monkey off our backs, and on to where it belongs, on the businesses and their customers. If we are going to apply one size fits all rules then I would prefer to regulate as hunting wild populations as have been done, set quotas, etc. like you are trying to gain consensus for. I just don't see this as being apples and apples. | |||
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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+1 This is what we have to deal with. I am so sick and tired of people saying "do you think the antis ...." The antis will never change their minds. But if we stand by what a normal undecided person thinks is crazy, we will have problems. In the Cape Colony you could hunt a bushman/hottentot. You had to buy a tag after what I have read. It was legal then. If that was legal in a country somewhere today, should we as hunters stand by it? I know this is a crazy/extreme/old example, but there`s a tendency that tings change over time. If you never change at all, you get wiped out. I am afraid that hunters will get that fate if we don`t do something about practises that 90 % of our population loathes! | |||
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Thank goodness for high fences saving the Texas three from extinction. I meant to be DSC Member...bad typing skills. Marcus Cady DRSS | |||
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When they hold the Buck by its horns ( in few countries ) as they say is shooting and when it's a fair chase in the jungle it's hunting to ME | |||
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 What was your weapon of choice on the elk? | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting What's The Difference Between Hunting and Shooting?
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