quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:


Is the value we assign to an animal we kill to simply takes its picture is just a few megapixels on a camera card, couldn't that be perceived as a bit shallow?

....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982

Hands of Old Elmer Keith

quote:

Collectors seem more flexible in the way they establish and hold onto their valuables than do hoarders. they may begin collecting one type of book as children, for example, and as they mature, switch to different types of books (e.g. action books as children to mystery books as adults). Collecting seems to go through its own natural life cycle with perhaps as many as 70% of children having some type of collection but only 23% of those in their 20s. By the age of 60, only 13-15% of the population is estimated to have a collection. The only hitch in this line of thinking is that people may be less likely to collect new items as they get older, but they may find it very difficult to part with their possessions.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

This is a true hunter couple gentlemen!

quote:

Originally posted by Bill C:
Also...I will say that I feel better when I know a true trophy will be put to good use, as I can't 100% shake being a little disturbed by the "trophy" not being utilized somehow (even if the meat was which it always is - is it guilt, or my tendency to think about everything from a value concept, I don't know). Not everything like a true cull/meat/bait animals, but for example, I know that rugs were made out of a wildebeest and two zebra, and a PH/outfitter took a nice kudu to be mounted and displayed in his office (need to follow-up on this one!).

I have a few trophy skins at the taxidermist that I'll probably never get mounted. Out of room, and frankly the money required at this point is better spent elsewhere. One being an ugly old croc that I had a super mount picked out for. Maybe I'll just get the skull cleaned as I spine-shot him.

I think "the need to collect" plays a large roll in how we feel about the "trophies". Some of us can't help but to collect (acquire) stuff. As a kid, I collected everything - rocks, stamps. coins, baseball cards, beer cans.....

This quote from an article I googled fits me pretty well I think, and maybe others, based on some of the comments:

quote:

Collectors seem more flexible in the way they establish and hold onto their valuables than do hoarders. they may begin collecting one type of book as children, for example, and as they mature, switch to different types of books (e.g. action books as children to mystery books as adults). Collecting seems to go through its own natural life cycle with perhaps as many as 70% of children having some type of collection but only 23% of those in their 20s. By the age of 60, only 13-15% of the population is estimated to have a collection. The only hitch in this line of thinking is that people may be less likely to collect new items as they get older, but they may find it very difficult to part with their possessions.

Complete article here: https://www.psychologytoday.co...re-extreme-collector

Last thought....my desire to get things mounted (and therefore do some hunts) is tempered these days not only by financial restraints and responsibilities, but by the awareness that my trophy collection will one day become somebody's burden. I see it now with the boys, their wives have a decorating style that apparently does not include more than a couple "stuffed heads" haha!

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

I've killed as many or more animals in my life than most and am not ashamed of it.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:


I may be a bit Pollyannaish in my position on this, I readily admit it. But getting past this phrase that my father asked me once; "The killing of a trophy animal, to simply take its picture?"

I continually go back to that. I cannot get past it. If that is the importance I put on that animals life, I should just leave it alive.

The killing, Hell yes, I enjoy it, we all do. I've killed as many or more animals in my life than most and am not ashamed of it. But again, I fee as though my responsibility just goes a bit further. Those that disagree, I'm certainly OK with that, as it's your decision and yours alone.

To go further, If a PH knew a client wasn't trophy hunting but only for the experience, should he (do they?) leave the really big heads out there for the guy whom wishes to give it a home?

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:


I may be a bit Pollyannaish in my position on this, I readily admit it. But getting past this phrase that my father asked me once; "The killing of a trophy animal, to simply take its picture?"

I continually go back to that. I cannot get past it. If that is the importance I put on that animals life, I should just leave it alive.

The killing, Hell yes, I enjoy it, we all do. I've killed as many or more animals in my life than most and am not ashamed of it. But again, I fee as though my responsibility just goes a bit further. Those that disagree, I'm certainly OK with that, as it's your decision and yours alone.

To go further, If a PH knew a client wasn't trophy hunting but only for the experience, should he (do they?) leave the really big heads out there for the guy whom wishes to give it a home?

Steve

You have stated and restated this opinion numerous times on this same subject that comes up periodically on this, and other boards. I've noticed that you always seem to be the guy that brings it up, and I've also noticed your views are always in the minority. Just curious as to why you keep bringing up this same old argument?

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I feel bad not bringing the "trophy" home. There is no way in hell that I could mount all that I have shot.

A lot of European "mounts" get hung at my hunting camp. I give some away. I have friends who go crazy when I give them a very average buff skull.

Opinions differ. There in no right or wrong IMHO.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill C:
Also...I will say that I feel better when I know a true trophy will be put to good use, as I can't 100% shake being a little disturbed by the "trophy" not being utilized somehow (even if the meat was which it always is - is it guilt, or my tendency to think about everything from a value concept, I don't know). Not everything like a true cull/meat/bait animals, but for example, I know that rugs were made out of a wildebeest and two zebra, and a PH/outfitter took a nice kudu to be mounted and displayed in his office (need to follow-up on this one!).

I have a few trophy skins at the taxidermist that I'll probably never get mounted. Out of room, and frankly the money required at this point is better spent elsewhere. One being an ugly old croc that I had a super mount picked out for. Maybe I'll just get the skull cleaned as I spine-shot him.

I think "the need to collect" plays a large roll in how we feel about the "trophies". Some of us can't help but to collect (acquire) stuff. As a kid, I collected everything - rocks, stamps. coins, baseball cards, beer cans.....

This quote from an article I googled fits me pretty well I think, and maybe others, based on some of the comments:

quote:

Collectors seem more flexible in the way they establish and hold onto their valuables than do hoarders. they may begin collecting one type of book as children, for example, and as they mature, switch to different types of books (e.g. action books as children to mystery books as adults). Collecting seems to go through its own natural life cycle with perhaps as many as 70% of children having some type of collection but only 23% of those in their 20s. By the age of 60, only 13-15% of the population is estimated to have a collection. The only hitch in this line of thinking is that people may be less likely to collect new items as they get older, but they may find it very difficult to part with their possessions.

Complete article here: https://www.psychologytoday.co...re-extreme-collector

Last thought....my desire to get things mounted (and therefore do some hunts) is tempered these days not only by financial restraints and responsibilities, but by the awareness that my trophy collection will one day become somebody's burden. I see it now with the boys, their wives have a decorating style that apparently does not include more than a couple "stuffed heads" haha!

I may be a bit Pollyannaish in my position on this, I readily admit it. But getting past this phrase that my father asked me once; "The killing of a trophy animal, to simply take its picture?"

I continually go back to that. I cannot get past it. If that is the importance I put on that animals life, I should just leave it alive.

The killing, Hell yes, I enjoy it, we all do. I've killed as many or more animals in my life than most and am not ashamed of it. But again, I fee as though my responsibility just goes a bit further. Those that disagree, I'm certainly OK with that, as it's your decision and yours alone.

To go further, If a PH knew a client wasn't trophy hunting but only for the experience, should he (do they?) leave the really big heads out there for the guy whom wishes to give it a home?

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by larryshores:
I feel bad not bringing the "trophy" home. There is no way in hell that I could mount all that I have shot.

A lot of European "mounts" get hung at my hunting camp. I give some away. I have friends who go crazy when I give them a very average buff skull.

Opinions differ. There in no right or wrong IMHO.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by larryshores:
I feel bad not bringing the "trophy" home. There is no way in hell that I could mount all that I have shot.

A lot of European "mounts" get hung at my hunting camp. I give some away. I have friends who go crazy when I give them a very average buff skull.

Opinions differ. There in no right or wrong IMHO.

Larry

There are a few Kmart box stores sitting empty that you could convert into your trophy room if you mounted everything you shot

Mike[/QUOTE

Needs to be more than a few!

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by larryshores:
I feel bad not bringing the "trophy" home. There is no way in hell that I could mount all that I have shot.

A lot of European "mounts" get hung at my hunting camp. I give some away. I have friends who go crazy when I give them a very average buff skull.

Opinions differ. There in no right or wrong IMHO.

Larry

There are a few Kmart box stores sitting empty that you could convert into your trophy room if you mounted everything you shot

Mike[/QUOTE

Needs to be more than a few!

I can see the sign.....

Larry Shore's World of Dead Buffalos

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by larryshores:
I feel bad not bringing the "trophy" home. There is no way in hell that I could mount all that I have shot.

A lot of European "mounts" get hung at my hunting camp. I give some away. I have friends who go crazy when I give them a very average buff skull.

Opinions differ. There in no right or wrong IMHO.

Larry

There are a few Kmart box stores sitting empty that you could convert into your trophy room if you mounted everything you shot

Mike[/QUOTE

Needs to be more than a few!

I can see the sign.....

Larry Shore's World of Dead Buffalos

and elephants, hogs (especially hogs), deer and other miscellaneous assorted critters.

quote:

Originally posted by Texas Blue Devil:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill C:
Also...I will say that I feel better when I know a true trophy will be put to good use, as I can't 100% shake being a little disturbed by the "trophy" not being utilized somehow (even if the meat was which it always is - is it guilt, or my tendency to think about everything from a value concept, I don't know). Not everything like a true cull/meat/bait animals, but for example, I know that rugs were made out of a wildebeest and two zebra, and a PH/outfitter took a nice kudu to be mounted and displayed in his office (need to follow-up on this one!).

I have a few trophy skins at the taxidermist that I'll probably never get mounted. Out of room, and frankly the money required at this point is better spent elsewhere. One being an ugly old croc that I had a super mount picked out for. Maybe I'll just get the skull cleaned as I spine-shot him.

I think "the need to collect" plays a large roll in how we feel about the "trophies". Some of us can't help but to collect (acquire) stuff. As a kid, I collected everything - rocks, stamps. coins, baseball cards, beer cans.....

This quote from an article I googled fits me pretty well I think, and maybe others, based on some of the comments:

quote:

Collectors seem more flexible in the way they establish and hold onto their valuables than do hoarders. they may begin collecting one type of book as children, for example, and as they mature, switch to different types of books (e.g. action books as children to mystery books as adults). Collecting seems to go through its own natural life cycle with perhaps as many as 70% of children having some type of collection but only 23% of those in their 20s. By the age of 60, only 13-15% of the population is estimated to have a collection. The only hitch in this line of thinking is that people may be less likely to collect new items as they get older, but they may find it very difficult to part with their possessions.

Complete article here: https://www.psychologytoday.co...re-extreme-collector

Last thought....my desire to get things mounted (and therefore do some hunts) is tempered these days not only by financial restraints and responsibilities, but by the awareness that my trophy collection will one day become somebody's burden. I see it now with the boys, their wives have a decorating style that apparently does not include more than a couple "stuffed heads" haha!

I may be a bit Pollyannaish in my position on this, I readily admit it. But getting past this phrase that my father asked me once; "The killing of a trophy animal, to simply take its picture?"

I continually go back to that. I cannot get past it. If that is the importance I put on that animals life, I should just leave it alive.

The killing, Hell yes, I enjoy it, we all do. I've killed as many or more animals in my life than most and am not ashamed of it. But again, I fee as though my responsibility just goes a bit further. Those that disagree, I'm certainly OK with that, as it's your decision and yours alone.

To go further, If a PH knew a client wasn't trophy hunting but only for the experience, should he (do they?) leave the really big heads out there for the guy whom wishes to give it a home?

Steve

Steve,

I doubt a PH is going to care about a hunter's taxidermy plans. The PH is going to want a happy client, big tip at the end of the hunt, and possibly a repeat business in the future.

I do think it is funny that you keep bringing up this issue on taxidermy. In a year or so, when you raise this issue again, I doubt anyone will have changed their minds from today's position,...but we will be happy to debate it again.

Normally I agree with most of your posts, but I'll never agree on this one. I'm a collector of experiences and memories, not animal heads. I do a lot of family hunts. Last year, I took my son, my father and a nephew to the BVC. Given the choice of mounting all my trophies, or bringing along my father or a nephew that has never been outside the USA,...it is a no brainer for me. Cut the taxidermy and bring another family member.

By the way, I do bring back trophies for my father and nephews, because it is something special for them. My son's already filled his bedroom and game room with trophies, so like me, he doesn't want to bring much back either.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

TBD,

Since this is now a dead horse, I will make this my last post on this subject.

Two immediate reactions.

First, I am not trying to persuade you or trying to get you to agree with me. (or anyone else)

Second, If people knowing how someone feels or the subject has been discussed prior, are the criteria on posting material more than once, We don't need a general discussion forum.

EVERYTHING we discuss has been discussed before. The search function would answer every question, anyone would ever have. No need to rehash about anything here I guess.

Regards,

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I responded anonymously above but it raised a question in my mind regarding the interplay of trophy exports and tipping. If you are on a canned lion hunt in South Africa with Mark Sullivan in order to complete your Inner Circle Diamond Award and receive a World Hunting Award Ring and you are successful on the hunt but elect not to export the trophy, how does that affect the appropriate tip

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

I will make this my last post on this subject.



Regards,

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by larryshores:
I feel bad not bringing the "trophy" home. There is no way in hell that I could mount all that I have shot

A lot of European "mounts" get hung at my hunting camp. I give some away. I have friends who go crazy when I give them a very average buff skull.

Opinions differ. There in no right or wrong IMHO.

Larry

There are a few Kmart box stores sitting empty that you could convert into your trophy room if you mounted everything you shot

Mike[/QUOTE

Needs to be more than a few!

I can see the sign.....

Larry Shore's World of Dead Buffalos

and elephants, hogs (especially hogs), deer and other miscellaneous assorted critters.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill C:
Also...I will say that I feel better when I know a true trophy will be put to good use, as I can't 100% shake being a little disturbed by the "trophy" not being utilized somehow (even if the meat was which it always is - is it guilt, or my tendency to think about everything from a value concept, I don't know). Not everything like a true cull/meat/bait animals, but for example, I know that rugs were made out of a wildebeest and two zebra, and a PH/outfitter took a nice kudu to be mounted and displayed in his office (need to follow-up on this one!).

I have a few trophy skins at the taxidermist that I'll probably never get mounted. Out of room, and frankly the money required at this point is better spent elsewhere. One being an ugly old croc that I had a super mount picked out for. Maybe I'll just get the skull cleaned as I spine-shot him.

I think "the need to collect" plays a large roll in how we feel about the "trophies". Some of us can't help but to collect (acquire) stuff. As a kid, I collected everything - rocks, stamps. coins, baseball cards, beer cans.....

This quote from an article I googled fits me pretty well I think, and maybe others, based on some of the comments:

quote:

Collectors seem more flexible in the way they establish and hold onto their valuables than do hoarders. they may begin collecting one type of book as children, for example, and as they mature, switch to different types of books (e.g. action books as children to mystery books as adults). Collecting seems to go through its own natural life cycle with perhaps as many as 70% of children having some type of collection but only 23% of those in their 20s. By the age of 60, only 13-15% of the population is estimated to have a collection. The only hitch in this line of thinking is that people may be less likely to collect new items as they get older, but they may find it very difficult to part with their possessions.

Complete article here: https://www.psychologytoday.co...re-extreme-collector

Last thought....my desire to get things mounted (and therefore do some hunts) is tempered these days not only by financial restraints and responsibilities, but by the awareness that my trophy collection will one day become somebody's burden. I see it now with the boys, their wives have a decorating style that apparently does not include more than a couple "stuffed heads" haha!

I may be a bit Pollyannaish in my position on this, I readily admit it. But getting past this phrase that my father asked me once; "The killing of a trophy animal, to simply take its picture?"

I continually go back to that. I cannot get past it. If that is the importance I put on that animals life, I should just leave it alive.

The killing, Hell yes, I enjoy it, we all do. I've killed as many or more animals in my life than most and am not ashamed of it. But again, I fee as though my responsibility just goes a bit further. Those that disagree, I'm certainly OK with that, as it's your decision and yours alone.

To go further, If a PH knew a client wasn't trophy hunting but only for the experience, should he (do they?) leave the really big heads out there for the guy whom wishes to give it a home?


Steve

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:
Neither.

Do it for the way the air tasted that morning before you set out.

Do it for the the stalk you had to take to get on to the animal.

Do it for the delicious sense of mastering of your emotions as still your sights before taking the shot.

Do it for the for the raw sensation of your heart in your mouth after you've taken the shot, the tightness of chest as you reload and the sweetness of that first exhalation when the beast drops.

Do it for any of these reasons, or indeed all of them but don't do it for just for bones on the wall or photos in the album.

Just my personal view.

quote:

Originally posted by DCS Member:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by larryshores:
I feel bad not bringing the "trophy" home. There is no way in hell that I could mount all that I have shot

A lot of European "mounts" get hung at my hunting camp. I give some away. I have friends who go crazy when I give them a very average buff skull.

Opinions differ. There in no right or wrong IMHO.

Larry

There are a few Kmart box stores sitting empty that you could convert into your trophy room if you mounted everything you shot

Mike[/QUOTE

Needs to be more than a few!

I can see the sign.....

Larry Shore's World of Dead Buffalos

and elephants, hogs (especially hogs), deer and other miscellaneous assorted critters.

Damn, what about the 5,500 +/- Palomas?

Seriously, I would rather do cull hunts (which, hopefully provide protein). There are a few trophies I would mount. I'm leaving my water buff in Argentina. The cost is ridiculous, but great fun. It's better than the "poor man's" buffalo (wildebeest).

The only two animals from Africa I'd bring home are Cape buffalo and kudu.

quote:

Originally posted by A.Dahlgren:
This is whats happens if you go all in on a Tanzania trip and leave it all to the taxidermist

quote:

Originally posted by Bill C:
For those among us truly committed to the cause:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
But what a set of knockers. No wonder shootaway wanted to bag her...

quote:

Don't shoot her behind a fence, because if she tried to jump over it it would be udder destruction.

quote:

We still haven't gotten it right, even though Ive seen tons of game meat wasted in Africa in that it couldn't be saved, but Africa took it back and fed it to the predators that also have to eat.