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Nope! The value is the experience, adventure, memory and it doesn't require a tribute via mount. Your mileage may vary. The two Caribou Joyce and I killed last august for the freezer included three two mile trips off of 5,000 feet to get the meat to the truck. The second trip out was in the dark with headlamps. The meat was the "trophy" but the experience of walking in bear country with bloody meat on your back in the dark with headlamps at 63 years old was the true trophy. Again your mileage may vary. BTW, I think you and Mike should get counseling and renew your bromance.  Cheers Jim[/QUOTE] …………………………………………….   This is a true hunter couple gentlemen! There comes a time when you simply have no room left on your walls for mounts. However the meat and other salvageable parts should be utilized by someone! I Africa all edible meat, not utilized in camp, is always utilized by the camp or dried and either sold or donated to the locals. If not edible meat it is utilized as bait for cats, or in my case it isn't shot. I simply do not kill animals to simply see if I can kill them. The closest I've come to needless killing of wild life is shooting P-Dogs on the cattle ranches of West Texas. These P-Dog town make hundreds of acres unusable to cattle, and destroy thousands of acres of graze, or shooting the large flocks of black birds that destroy grain crop fields. The above exception saves food for man and beast, and IMO is justified. I voted YES! .....................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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For me its not an either/or proposition. I would not hunt some species if I could not have the trophy mounted. This would, for example, include a bighorn sheep, a bongo, and less specialty/expensive animals like any number of African critters that would not be eaten nor offer an amazing hunt experience such as those found on night drives (civet, serval, caracal, porcupine, honey badger, etc). For others, as long as the meat is utilized, a picture or just a memory is fine. This is especially true when the game is in abundance. I just don't see things as "black and white" as some. In either case, it is the experience, the adventure, that drives me. | |||
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Also...I will say that I feel better when I know a true trophy will be put to good use, as I can't 100% shake being a little disturbed by the "trophy" not being utilized somehow (even if the meat was which it always is - is it guilt, or my tendency to think about everything from a value concept, I don't know). Not everything like a true cull/meat/bait animals, but for example, I know that rugs were made out of a wildebeest and two zebra, and a PH/outfitter took a nice kudu to be mounted and displayed in his office (need to follow-up on this one!). I have a few trophy skins at the taxidermist that I'll probably never get mounted. Out of room, and frankly the money required at this point is better spent elsewhere. One being an ugly old croc that I had a super mount picked out for. Maybe I'll just get the skull cleaned as I spine-shot him. I think "the need to collect" plays a large roll in how we feel about the "trophies". Some of us can't help but to collect (acquire) stuff. As a kid, I collected everything - rocks, stamps. coins, baseball cards, beer cans..... This quote from an article I googled fits me pretty well I think, and maybe others, based on some of the comments:
Complete article here: https://www.psychologytoday.co...re-extreme-collector Last thought....my desire to get things mounted (and therefore do some hunts) is tempered these days not only by financial restraints and responsibilities, but by the awareness that my trophy collection will one day become somebody's burden. I see it now with the boys, their wives have a decorating style that apparently does not include more than a couple "stuffed heads" haha! | |||
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 ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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I may be a bit Pollyannaish in my position on this, I readily admit it. But getting past this phrase that my father asked me once; "The killing of a trophy animal, to simply take its picture?" I continually go back to that. I cannot get past it. If that is the importance I put on that animals life, I should just leave it alive. The killing, Hell yes, I enjoy it, we all do. I've killed as many or more animals in my life than most and am not ashamed of it. But again, I fee as though my responsibility just goes a bit further. Those that disagree, I'm certainly OK with that, as it's your decision and yours alone. To go further, If a PH knew a client wasn't trophy hunting but only for the experience, should he (do they?) leave the really big heads out there for the guy whom wishes to give it a home? Steve Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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It's time to play America's favorite blogging game . . . you be the psychologist. Some might wonder if the concern over trophy mounts is just a rationalization for the fact that perhaps you are ashamed of it at some level. Now . . . next contestant . . . Mike | |||
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You have stated and restated this opinion numerous times on this same subject that comes up periodically on this, and other boards. I've noticed that you always seem to be the guy that brings it up, and I've also noticed your views are always in the minority. Just curious as to why you keep bringing up this same old argument? | |||
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Because I keep seeing others state, that they are not going to mount their kills? I have made the choice not to hi-jack their threads. I could just as easily ask you why you keep responding? Perhaps try the ignore function? And Mike, I shall give you what it is you always wish, The last word. You are the correct opinion on all things Africa, that's a fact. I surrender my position.  Having a minority opinion, and standing behind my convictions doesn't make me wrong, it makes me a minority on this. Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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I feel bad not bringing the "trophy" home. There is no way in hell that I could mount all that I have shot. A lot of European "mounts" get hung at my hunting camp. I give some away. I have friends who go crazy when I give them a very average buff skull. Opinions differ. There in no right or wrong IMHO. | |||
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Larry There are a few Kmart box stores sitting empty that you could convert into your trophy room if you mounted everything you shot  Mike | |||
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Steve, I doubt a PH is going to care about a hunter's taxidermy plans. The PH is going to want a happy client, big tip at the end of the hunt, and possibly a repeat business in the future. I do think it is funny that you keep bringing up this issue on taxidermy. In a year or so, when you raise this issue again, I doubt anyone will have changed their minds from today's position,...but we will be happy to debate it again. Normally I agree with most of your posts, but I'll never agree on this one. I'm a collector of experiences and memories, not animal heads. I do a lot of family hunts. Last year, I took my son, my father and a nephew to the BVC. Given the choice of mounting all my trophies, or bringing along my father or a nephew that has never been outside the USA,...it is a no brainer for me. Cut the taxidermy and bring another family member. By the way, I do bring back trophies for my father and nephews, because it is something special for them. My son's already filled his bedroom and game room with trophies, so like me, he doesn't want to bring much back either. Go Duke!! | |||
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Since i rarely bring home anything anymore, i would be perfectly happy telling the PH that he could save the big ones for others. Just give me a good, hard hunt for a representative or deformed horn specimen. It's the hunt, not the wall ornament. Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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Larry There are a few Kmart box stores sitting empty that you could convert into your trophy room if you mounted everything you shot Mike[/QUOTE Needs to be more than a few!  | |||
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I can see the sign..... Larry Shore's World of Dead Buffalos ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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and elephants, hogs (especially hogs), deer and other miscellaneous assorted critters. | |||
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As long as there are no honey badgers. Mike | |||
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They are included under miscellaneous assorted creatures. | |||
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TBD, Since this is now a dead horse, I will make this my last post on this subject. Two immediate reactions. First, I am not trying to persuade you or trying to get you to agree with me. (or anyone else) Second, If people knowing how someone feels or the subject has been discussed prior, are the criteria on posting material more than once, We don't need a general discussion forum. EVERYTHING we discuss has been discussed before. The search function would answer every question, anyone would ever have. No need to rehash about anything here I guess. Regards, Steve Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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We'll look forward to you bringing it up again in a month or two. | |||
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Mike, it depends. Who shot the lion, the client or Mark? When the client arrived for his 3 day hunt, coincidentally were there Botswana lions that escaped into the enclosure that either Mark or the client shot? And finally, did the 20 page hunting agreement (which also contained a confidentiality clause, protecting Mark from negative publicity and the client from PH gossip) stipulate handling of tips under applicable scenarios? | |||
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Simply both for me Like anything else, after I die, someone else will buy them things at some obscure auction and put it in his house or cabin for decoration It's only money... " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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Never say never on an internet forum. ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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Damn, what about the 5,500 +/- Palomas? Seriously, I would rather do cull hunts (which, hopefully provide protein). There are a few trophies I would mount. I'm leaving my water buff in Argentina. The cost is ridiculous, but great fun. It's better than the "poor man's" buffalo (wildebeest). The only two animals from Africa I'd bring home are Cape buffalo and kudu. I meant to be DSC Member...bad typing skills. Marcus Cady DRSS | |||
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How do you feel about mounting birds? Weather it be a bird or elephant, they are living animals. Does the size of the animal or horn length matter? You did say trophy animal. DRSS Searcy 470 NE | |||
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Neither. Do it for the way the air tasted that morning before you set out. Do it for the the stalk you had to take to get on to the animal. Do it for the delicious sense of mastering of your emotions as still your sights before taking the shot. Do it for the for the raw sensation of your heart in your mouth after you've taken the shot, the tightness of chest as you reload and the sweetness of that first exhalation when the beast drops. Do it for any of these reasons, or indeed all of them but don't do it for just for bones on the wall or photos in the album. Just my personal view.  | |||
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Exactly!!!! Go Duke!! | |||
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I think the only animal that I would want a shoulder mount is a really big sable. Go Duke!! | |||
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For those among us truly committed to the cause:  | |||
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Much to do over nothing, its your hunt you paid for it, do as you please...Nothing shot in Africa goes to waste regardless of your decision..In So. Africa the PH sells the meat i in town, the hides are sold also. you have your pictures and money saved for another hunt down the road...Whats wrong with that.. In Zim and Tanzania, the meat goes to the staff and the local tribe, used for bait or whatever and very little is wasted. Buffalo horns and hides have a value both in Africa and the USA.. Not to mention the Africans are the best conservationist in the world, and game numbers sure support that..If an animal or part of the animal is left at the kill sight for what ever reason WE in our arrogance call it unsportsmanlike or what ever shame we want to call it..Africans call it (giving back what we have taken from Africa. A beautiful concept in that they realize that Leopards, Lions, Hyenas, foxes and all animals, including vultures must eat...Africa has convienced me of the concept..It's not something to them that needs justification, its how the dark continent has work forever. That's just how it works, but whatever they do it is their country, not ours so we only have the right to bloviate, noda mas!  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Not sure we need to justify our sport here? I remember as a kid collecting hundreds of downed pheasants for a few gentry and the occasion and sporting atmosphere was as good as it gets anywhere in the field today. I hunt and conduct hunting purely for the privilege of the sport and being in the wild and I still find it difficult to explain myself but offer no apology. Steve your views are admirable and you are an upstanding man. But there are many like you and then again there are many who are not. It is not for me or us to question what we choose to do? A good analogy is that I remember a postman that had saved all his life for a PG safari and the pure African experience. My client who was hunting Lion with me in the same area kindly allowed and paid for him to shoot his game for our bait. There was no way the postman could afford this hunting experience or the taxidermy. Not sure what the moral of that story is but he left behind a shed full of very fine memories. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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This is whats happens if you go all in on a Tanzania trip and leave it all to the taxidermist  | |||
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I know that if it were not for the professional hunting in Tanzania, there would be no game, the bush market would see to that.. For those so naïve to believe that some meat is not "wasted to your standards" wake up and take a look at he other side of the picture as I stated in my earlier post...Maybe you have been brain washed as to what it right and what is wrong, your way or the highway, the world is not the same, what applies in the USA does not apply in other countries, and the one thing im sure of their game depts. and PHs and hunters have done one hell of a lot better job than all our biologists and game depts. Just look at the game numbers and success rates and tell me who has the most to offer...We still havn't gotten it right, even though Ive seen tons of game meat wasted in Africa in that it couldn't be saved, but Africa took it back and fed it to the preditors that also have to eat. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Anton - You at sci ? Mike | |||
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If this picture is what I think it is for, all I can say is Hahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaha! That is professional grade funny right there. Sir, I appreciate your humor. I laughed so hard at lunch. I nearly died. | |||
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No, that is not shootaway's cow from Zim.... Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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She needs her feet trimmed, and is a bit sickle legged to boot! | |||
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But what a set of knockers. No wonder shootaway wanted to bag her... Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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Don't shoot her behind a fence, because if she tried to jump over it it would be udder destruction. | |||
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Different continent and country with totally different hunting styles; Africa as a hunting venue caters mainly for sportsmen and collectors of species whereas in America and Europe the emphasis lies mainly on salvaging the carcass (singular) in that there is hardly any legal possibility of shooting more than one animal unless it is a driven hunt and therefore to be considered a cull where all the carcasses and meat is salvaged. Bottom line: I doubt that anywhere in the States or Europe will one shoot the number of animals one would privileged to kill as on an African safari and salvage the meat. It doesn't happen in most of the African states mainly due to logistics unless it is a Game Ranch in SA, NAM or ZIM and as Ray has said, what is not consumed by humans is left for the scavengers and predators. Whatever of the carcass remains will generate maggots which feeds the birds, etc. and the cycle of nature continues. | |||
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