only a rich man's sport?

Always had trouble with the definition of "rich".

Do you also have trouble with "middle class"?

quote:

Originally posted by Bill G. in Oregon:
Do you also have trouble with "middle class"?

Frankly, I have trouble with "class" period. I know people and have patients that do not work consider themselves "poor" and through social programs live better than some pigeon holed in the group called the "middle class".

What is the basis of this? Is it not hate, or envy? Maybe? Being angry with people based on their class or the accident of their birth is no different than judging them on their skin color. I would love to be rich for the hunting it would afford me.

Apparently those who can't, teach.

I truly agree re the sometimes unfair effects of social programs.

Among various odd jobs, I taught learning disabled and emotionally or socially disturbed jr high students in public schools for 35 years. That was work.

If I define "middle class" as meaning a working individual making $50-60K, as I did in later years, having a mortgage, and a family to support, could that individual likely pay $20,000 for one safari and hope for another trip next year? My question, I think, is perfectly valid:

Is safari only a rich man's sport?


Bill
---

No, it is not a rich man's sport. It is a sport for whoever is prepared to make the necessary sacrifices to do what he wants to do. My wife and I live simply and do not not even own a car on the continent where we live. We made a choice to move to the third world several years ago because it put us closer to the places we wanted to visit and hunt. In that way we save money on airfare. Hell, I even shop for food in the outdoor markets to avoid paying western prices for groceries. Every few months I do that I figure that I save enough to pay for a Springbok or half of a Kudu. It is all a matter of priorities. For most of us, we cannot have both the new pickup truck every few years AND the hunting trips. Set your priorities and go forward.

Is heaven only for the religious?

Being rich is often a temporary condition. Safaris are expensive. Nothing is to prevent any person from doing what is necessary to afford a safari no matter the cost. Like most of economics, things are fluid and one does not have to be permanently fixed to a "class". No, safaris are not just for the rich, they are for those who can afford them. And those who afford them come from all walks of life and "classes".

Hunting in general is being priced out of the reach of the middle class. In actuality, a person can go to Africa anmd shoot several species of game animals cheaper that a hunt for a trophy white tail here in America. It all depends on the individual and what kind of things they are willing to sacrifice.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Hunting in general is being priced out of the reach of the middle class. In actuality, a person can go to Africa anmd shoot several species of game animals cheaper that a hunt for a trophy white tail here in America. It all depends on the individual and what kind of things they are willing to sacrifice.

I like your thinking! I will add that there are a lot of in inexpensive hunts anyone can do. I would believe that the initial poster generalizing a safari for "$20k" is out of touch. You can do one for far less.

A safari is not out of reach for the majority of people (I am speaking about the U.S.).

Giving up a nice vehicle, everyday visits to a convenience store for coffee, getting a part time job......etc.. can help the "average joe" get there.

I am not saying that its for everyone. But, it can be done with a little effort and patience.

So, my answer is NO

I drive a 2002 PU with 204,000 miles on it....to replace it with a 2012 would be equivalent to not going on my Ele hunt.....plus I skipped all hunting except turkey and waterfowl for two years.....hell, man, you can hunt RSA or Namibia and take 5 to 7 animals on a pkg deal that costs less than any guided hunt for one mammal in the States!

quote:

Originally posted by Tom In Tennessee:
I drive a 2002 PU with 204,000 miles on it....to replace it with a 2012 would be equivalent to not going on my Ele hunt.....plus I skipped all hunting except turkey and waterfowl for two years.....hell, man, you can hunt RSA or Namibia and take 5 to 7 animals on a pkg deal that costs less than any guided hunt for one mammal in the States!

Tom is the perfect example of my previous post!

I went on a 7 day Cape Buffalo hunt in Zim in 2010 for $7,500 and added a Kudu for $1,100. Bought that hunt on the AR board. Had a ball.
I couldn't find a quality Elk hunt for that price. I'm a middle class dude, still working at age 64 and don't intend to stop working, because without work, I can't go to Africa.

Bill
I don't think so. Certainly there are people on this board and elsewhere that think nothing of shelling out the many thousands of dollars to take at least one, maybe more, safaris each year. "Last year was elephant and buffalo plus Plains game, what do I do this year? Maybe leopard and buffalo, next year maybe a 14 or 21 day leopard/lion/buffalo hunt." I certainly can't afford to do that. I try to thin my gun collection out and cut down on some of the extras so I can afford to go. But, If I want to go bad enough, it can be done. That is not the case for many. For years, growing up and having to make ends meet in the middle, it was not a possibility, now, with a little money management, I can do it and I am only middle class.(damn low class if you ask my wife)

What the?

I had read all the stories and many books but had given up on ever being able to afford Africa.....just too expensive....I gave myself a divorce present by cashing out an insurance policy and got me a Dall Sheep....two other hunters in camp did not score....saved some money and went Elk hunting a lot....I have a 50% success ratio.....some buddies called and insisted I be the fourth on a 2x1 Zim hunt....they talked me into it when they gave me the costs....I booked my second Zim hunt before I left....I was 59 at the time...I now hunt Africa first and worry about other sheit later!

To do it the way the big hunting reports here do -- yes.
To take a hunting trip/"safari" it depends on what you can afford and will plan to do. Go without a new car for twenty years and you can go three times (like this former MK has done.) If you don't want to bother unless the Big Five and lots of plains game are involved, you don't have the money working for God.

some great response here , starbucks coffee at $4 x 5 days a week =20 a week x52 = 1040 per year on coffee ...therefore starbucks coffee is just for rich people ! save that for ten years and you have a decent plains game safari !!!!!

as many have said if hunting is your passion you will find ways to do it , goes for anything that you are passionate about ...what is it you want and what are you prepared to do/sacrifice to do it ? -

the term rich is also a moving target ...depends who you are compared to ...i am talking just money terms ...

rich is sending the private jet to get tennis balls because you dont like the ones at the lodge (yes i have had that happen) and no i wont book that guy again ...

some of the nicest people in the world are nice in spite of great wealth - or lack thereof ...

there is often an inherent jealousy of rich people , trust me i have spent some time around some very unhappy rich people ... but on the other hand also with some very gracous and nice rich people ..

i have just guided an amazing guy , worked and saved for six years for his hunt killed a great elephant , loved every minute ...lives in a very modest home and saves wherever he can to get back to africa ...what a gent and very very appreciative of every moment...he would not be considered rich in todays america ..

No way only for the rich. If it were I certainly would not have been able to make eleven safaris in the past twelve years. You don't make enough by working for a state to ever get rich.

465H&H

quote:

only a rich man's sport?

No.

Bill- Just remember, "you can do anything you want, you just can't do everything you want." Pick and choose and make it happen.

quote:

Originally posted by ivan carter: the term rich is also a moving target ...depends who you are compared to ...i am talking just money terms ...

+1! I live in So. CA where a $500k home is "average", even in a depressed housing market. I retired after 30+ years in law enforcement (as a sergeant) working for a city with enough resources to pay it's cops and firefighters very well. While my retirement pay is far better than what those who do what I did for a living in other states make, if I retired on their pay scale I couldn't afford to live in my own home.

I saved up for four years and will be going to Africa for the first time on a buffalo hunt with a first class outfitter in a great (but expensive) area. I'm I "rich"? If you saw my home, you'd say I was, "middle class and I have a well defined sense of priorities."

BTW Ivan: I'm a frequent viewer of your programs and really like your attitude about the experience of hunting in general. Saw you at the last DSC convention, but just didn't have the time to introduce myself. Thanks for the great tips and providing the incentive for my wife and I to go on this great adventure. I'll post the results upon our return.

Nope.

Had this same conversation a few weeks back. Africa is attainable but you have to budget yourself and consider all costs.

S Africa for plains game 3-7k depending on location and species. Consider airfare at @ 2k. Tips dip and pack adds another 800-1000. Permits and fees may add another 500. All in 6k to 10k baseline.

S Africa 5 day buffalo only add 4k to above.
Zim buffalo and plainsgame add 4k to above.
Zim tusk less and plainsgame add 6k to above.
I understand that Zim lioness may be comparable to tusk less but not sure.

These numbers may be off a bit but not too far off with a reputable company.

Opportunity for cutting costs:

Look for late season cancellations or people looking to sell hunts purchased at shows but unable to attend they represent significant savings but you will have to be flexible.

Get a credit card that gives you airline points for purchases and put as much of your CC purchases on it.
With a bit of time you can get enough FF points to pay for airline tickets.
Just be careful as these are usually higher APR cards.

Look for off season travel our late fall or early winter in US. Will be hot in Africa but airfare maybe significantly reduced.

Not an insignificant amount but as stated previously can be attainable even on a budget.

I have not added in taxidermy costs as this is can easily blow the budget.

With some careful planning and budgeting a hunt to Africa may be possible even on limited budget every few years.

Ivan,
I bet I was in camp last august with one of those obnoxious rich guys that you hunt with. Some of the things you do for money.

I think Bill is posting a question to which he already knows the answer.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill G. in Oregon:
only a rich man's sport?

Predominantly, in my experience, yes, but not only.

On a thinly related note, I see the King of Spain just took a pay cut partly as a result of the stink caused his last safari hitting the newspapers.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill G. in Oregon:

Is safari only a rich man's sport?


Bill
---

I would not class myself as a rich man, Maybe middle class but most certainly a dedicated Safari class man.

quote:

Originally posted by tendrams:
No, it is not a rich man's sport. It is a sport for whoever is prepared to make the necessary sacrifices to do what he wants to do. My wife and I live simply and do not not even own a car on the continent where we live. We made a choice to move to the third world several years ago because it put us closer to the places we wanted to visit and hunt. In that way we save money on airfare. Hell, I even shop for food in the outdoor markets to avoid paying western prices for groceries. Every few months I do that I figure that I save enough to pay for a Springbok or half of a Kudu. It is all a matter of priorities. For most of us, we cannot have both the new pickup truck every few years AND the hunting trips. Set your priorities and go forward.

tendrams:

Interesting post. I recognize it's none of my business but if you don't mind saying, what country do you live in? I assume, given your age, that you are working there on some type of long term position?

Bro Dave has it right.

I pretty much know the answer. But these responses have been interesting and informative. The devotion of some here to hunting, to me, is amazing!

Kindly move on if you don't like personal notes:

Sometime back I decided to save for Safari, but shortly after that I realized I had little to leave my boys when I pass on. (I'm 72). I thought to myself I should lavish $$$ on myself leaving them nothing? One can hardly inherit another's safari experience.

Also my heart began to hurt for those precious little children in some parts of the world so in need of help. I thought to myself, I should spend thousands on myself while they suffer & die from hunger or disease?

So I've saved some and now I think I'm able to leave enough material goods to my boys.

And for over a year I've also budgeted a tenth of my retirement money to a good charity which serves those helpless children. I intend to do this until death.

The result is, having covered these two bases, I may plan again for a Buff hunt in a year or two. I'm not promising myself this, but I think my budget even with my desire to leave my boys something and my giving to those precious, hurting children served by that nameless Charity somehow seems to leave me enough to consider Safari again.

Bread cast on water?

I really have appreciated the response in this thread.

Thanks,

Bill
---

Bill
You Sir, sound like a genuinely good man.

I prefer "an elitist sport."

Too tacky?

Safaris are for those who want to go on a journey as to how long it is up to the individual.
Bill, I am not wealthy, a retired educator. But, I saved educated my children and still supported charities. Your passion is fine but your choice.
Yes there are starving children all over the world. Are we as Americans supposed to support a health care system for millions of illegal aliens?
How much of a burden can we as citizens afford, the pie is being cut more and more slices smaller and smaller.

Mike

I would rather my father left me a ton of pictures of his dream safari, complete with daily hunt journal and a nice letter, composed upon his return and detailing his thoughts upon reflection after, than any money or most any other heirloom.

From that point of view I would say that one can definitely inherit another's safari experience.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill G. in Oregon:
only a rich man's sport?

If it is.....so what?
If it isn't, ....that's nice.

Dave: I'm so glad your children are not as materially minded as mine. Both of mine are veterans with PTSD and so may not be feeling quite as they should.

retreever: I am not supporting illegal aliens.If I could, I'd require only legal immigration to the USA.

Conifer: I suppose the replies here answer the so what.

Bill
---

I am leaving on my 8th safari next month. I'm a regular guy who lived and worked a regular life. I'm confortable; certainly not rich by any means. Just comfortable. But speaking metaphorically, I consider what I spend on my safaris an investment. Each time I go I'm investing a little more in the quality of my life. I also happen to be blessed with a wife who understands and encourages me, thereby contributing, in her own way, to the original investment. So from my perspective, safari hunting has made me a rich man.

Bill,

Have you considered that if you do that safari you will also be contributing to a great many people living in relative poverty. Often the safari camp has as many as 20 plus employees and each has a substantial family so your safari dollars directly go to people that can use it. To my mind this is even better way to give back than contributing to a charity.

Mark

Hello Mark:

No, I had not considered that. Good point.

Bill

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Hunting in general is being priced out of the reach of the middle class. In actuality, a person can go to Africa anmd shoot several species of game animals cheaper that a hunt for a trophy white tail here in America. It all depends on the individual and what kind of things they are willing to sacrifice.

I would clarify and say guided hunting is and has always been out of the middle class budget range. It's just a fact. Can a blue collar worker sacrifice, save up and go to Africa, absolutely! But it's not now and never been easy. I've taken my sons on a couple of very cheap guided hunts (feral hog, cow elk) and am glad I did it, and one (bucket list) brown bear hunt for myself. If I was single with my income, I'd go to Africa every other year, but kids, wife, house, colege, etc. cost money and it's a choice I have made and am glad for. I have nothing against folks being rich, I hope my kids become so. It doesn't make them better people or worse, just enables them to do more things, travel more and struggle less, all good things.