To all their own. I seem to remember Ruark shooting a large buff in "Horn of the Hunter" and following it forever to find it dead without fight. He said it was much bigger than others that stood their ground and to him much less of a "trophy".

Maybe I'm young, dumb, or too new to this but I think the experience is everything. If that scrumhead presented itself as a Buffalo in attitude I'd take it in a heartbeat now that I have one that looks like a "normal" Buffalo already.

My bushbuck from Zambia is not the biggest as compared to many I've seen on here but that sucker tried to kill a tree after I shot it and then headed for my wife with the same intent before keeling over. I'm sure when he's on the wall Joyce will look at him and remember that and not the size or shape of his horns.

Not many of us would pay the $25000.00 plus to hunt Masaiiland and shoot a scrum cap bull on a ten day two buff hunt, or would you? You go there for the opportunity to shoot some of the biggest buff in the world and would you consider it successful if you shot two of the ones in the earlier pics? I sure wouldn't, but who knows?

quote:

Originally posted by joec:
Not many of us would pay the $25000.00 plus to hunt Masaiiland and shoot a scrum cap bull on a ten day two buff hunt, or would you? You go there for the opportunity to shoot some of the biggest buff in the world and would you consider it successful if you shot two of the ones in the earlier pics? I sure wouldn't, but who knows?

If you are addressing this to me I would have to tell you I wouldn't spend $25,000+ to solely hunt Buffalo. I will probably never hunt Tanz.

Don't misunderstand me. There's nothing wrong in my mind with chasing the tape when hunting. It's just not what I personally am about.

I'm planning to hunt Tanzaniz (Masailand) and I'm going to get the two largest trophy buffalo I can find - dagga boy or herd bull. It costs too much in time and expense to do otherwise. I hope my PH understands and finds for me the biggest bulls available. If he doesn't, there won't be much of a tip. When I'm happy, I tip liberally. Regards, AIU

quote:

Originally posted by bobgrow:
In the US,we take out management bucks that do not appear to have strong genetics (an issue by itself).
Not the same as going after an old buff, that maybe had his day with the cows and is now in isolation having been forced out of the herd by a stronger,younger bull.

These are real trophies, and IMO much more
difficult to hunt than the bulls in a herd.

I disagree that hunting dugga boys is more difficult than herd bulls. a dugga boy is by himself or maybe with 2-3 other older bulls- hence 1-4 sets of eyes, noses, and ears. thus a little easier to stalk. try stalking a herd bull in a group of 25-100 sets of eyes, ears, and noses. whole different kettle of fish!

Age before beauty, boys - when it comes to hunting.

Of course, age and beauty would rank above all else.

But I think you'd have to agree with me that age and beauty is a rare combination!

quote:

Originally posted by joec:
Not many of us would pay the $25000.00 plus to hunt Masaiiland and shoot a scrum cap bull on a ten day two buff hunt, or would you? You go there for the opportunity to shoot some of the biggest buff in the world and would you consider it successful if you shot two of the ones in the earlier pics? I sure wouldn't, but who knows?

Joec:

"Dugga boys" or "Ninjas" don't necessarily have to be ancient, rickety buff wearing scrumcaps- they are just the outcasts of a herd.
Where Masailand dugga boys are concerned, the chances of whacking one that dreams are made of are higher than in most other places on the globe.

This Buffalo is a beauty in my eyes. He has age and a good solid spread.

Personally I would shoot a trophy with a broken horn and there is an untold story to that.

Where's the picture from Andrew?

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
This Buffalo is a beauty in my eyes. He has age and a good solid spread.

Personally I would shoot a trophy with a broken horn and there is an untold story to that.

Andrew:

Although I would prefer deeper curves I'd shoot that bull in a heartbeat if my one specimen of a major species per lifetime personal buffalo limit wasn't already filled.

Bill Quimby

Jim,

Wish I could tell you that it was taken on the banks of Munyamadzi in the Luangwa. However some sharp eyed PH would shoot me down in flames as Buphagus erythrorhynchus of east Africa is sitting on his boss looking for ticks.

Amboselii 24 0ctober 2004.

I guess you can call them what you like and hunt them the same way. I only ask one thing of my guide/Ph and that is lets find a bull with a hard wide boss and a good spread. For me nothing else matters

Wonder what the caption would be if your PH informed you that you could not take this one from the herd?

There's actually a fair bit of (sometimes not so recent) scientific research/evidence that seems to prove that the whole concept of herd bulls and dagga boys is untrue and that the bulls just all take turns in visiting the herds to breed and then going back to the bachelor groups when they're shagged out. (pardon the pun!)

One example is the TV documentary they made some years ago about the buff around Lake Manyara which was very interesting.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
There's actually a fair bit of (sometimes not so recent) scientific research/evidence that seems to prove that the whole concept of herd bulls and dagga boys is untrue and that the bulls just all take turns in visiting the herds to breed and then going back to the bachelor groups when they're shagged out. (pardon the pun!)

One example is the TV documentary they made some years ago about the buff around Lake Manyara which was very interesting.

A debatable argument considering the research you are referring to was centered on the Manyara buff.
How do the researchers explain the groups or lone dagga boys that sulk in the thickets with no herd or herds in the vicinity?
It is also true that most herds will be accompanied by several "hangers-on" following in their wake and it is also true that the lurkers in the thickets will perk up when they get a whiff of the "turn me on perfume" that a visiting herd will bring.

Mate, it's a loooong time since I saw the documentary but seem to remember the bulls commute considerable distances between the herds and the old boys clubs....... perhaps someone with a better memory could comment?

I also seem to remember the same documentary spent months filming the herds and then ran everything through a computer and found the females more or less took a morning vote on the direction they should travel in search of grazing that day.

Whether all that would stand up to further investigation nowadays, I simply don't know but I for one found it presented some very interesting arguments.

Is he a dagga boy or a herd bull?

How about a Herd of Daggas? Eish - like a box of chocolates...and above all IMO no dilemma - 2 birds with 1 stone

Funny how people form an opinion fron their own experiences.

I have shot quite a few bulls from herds and quite a few dagga boys.

There is no hard and fast rule, at least in my own experience, that one of them is more to hunt than the other.

quote:

Originally posted by mouse93:
How about a Herd of Daggas? Eish - like a box of chocolates...and above all IMO no dilemma - 2 birds with 1 stone

Fourth from the back is a cracker.

Never knew you spoke Latin.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Jim,

Wish I could tell you that it was taken on the banks of Munyamadzi in the Luangwa. However some sharp eyed PH would shoot me down in flames as Buphagus erythrorhynchus of east Africa is sitting on his boss looking for ticks.

Amboselii 24 0ctober 2004.

Great buffalo in these photos.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by mouse93:
How about a Herd of Daggas? Eish - like a box of chocolates...and above all IMO no dilemma - 2 birds with 1 stone

Fourth from the back is a cracker.

That is why they build PH's. I was too busy mentally shooting the one second from the front to even notice that buff. Would love to have the problem of deciding which one to try for out of that group.

Dean

My experience is very limited, one herd bull and one dagga boy. The difference: fewer eyes around the dagga boy so we were able to get closer.

Regarding broken off horns: if he gave me a good hunt and was big bodied I would shoot a scrum cap. Keep in mind that I am no longer looking for anything to put on my walls, photos and a few skins only.

Regarding one tuskers: based on what I read here, if I die am in reincarnated as an elephant, I'm going to do my best to break one tusk off right away.

I personally like the unusual and the different so on my first BUT hopefully not my last buffalo hunt I wanted a scum cap bull and thank God I got a great one. he was very old and it was estimated that due to the lion population in the area where we where hunting and his age he most likely would not have lived much longer. I will alway cherish the trophy and the memorize of a great hunt. and the great friends I made during the hunt.

First and foremost is the enjoyment of tracking and stalking Buffalo. While shooting a couple of Buffalo is important to the results of the adventure...it is all about getting close and in a position to take a shot that really is the fun part from my prospective.

This past year the highlights of our the hunt did not conclude in taking a Buffalo....just great tracking and stalking...creeping up on Buffalo is a trill...

Hunting a herd is different than Dugga Boys...enjoy both, if you get close it is all the more exciting and enjoyable

I went to Masiailand this past year and took two exceptional buffalo in my book. I could care less how they scored by any record keeping measure!

jjs,
+++1111 you are spot on there buddy. even if I would not have gotten the buffalo I wanted or got one at all the hunt was still a great hunt. You can not put a price on the time spent in the bush or the friendships that where made

JJS, tell us about you Masailand hunt. I'm going there in Jan 2013. What do I need to know? Regards, AIU

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
JJS, tell us about you Masailand hunt. I'm going there in Jan 2013. What do I need to know? Regards, AIU

AIU:

Masailand is quite a vast tract of land. It has prime areas, not so prime and some let downs. It might be useful to have some indication where you might be headed.

Will be hunting with Luke Samaras - a concession next to Tarangire National Park. AIU

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
Will be hunting with Luke Samaras - a concession next to Tarangire National Park. AIU

An excellent choice - you will not be disappointed.

Shot this ugly old critter after the most exciting stalk of my life.



BTW, I was hunting with Samaras and got this old boy in the thick thorn at a place called Kitiangare. I wish I could return.

jetdrvr,

Proper buffalo. I see two old boys in that picture.

To each his own!

I prefer to "hunt" old solitary bulls, or whatever you might want to call them.

Not being a "bigger is better" kinda hunter I really like the effort put forth in spotting these olod bush warriors and then the challenge of getting up REAL close for the kill.

Horn size is secondary to me. It's all about the hunt!

I have shot into herds in the past, but the majority of my bulls have been solitary animals.

Doubt I'll ever shoot into a herd again - I just don't like all of the commotion and the aspect of terrifying an entire grouping of animals.

That's just my opinion and as stated previously - to each his / her own!

JW

By all means - still there are times when you can not draw a line - as (I guess) ozhunter tried to point it out on earlier post:

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
Is he a dagga boy or a herd bull?

As it happened last November - we were following a solitaire Dagga Boy for 3 days - on the 3rd day he had enough and merged with a herd (IMO on purpose) - those old boys are realy smart and he knew he'd be safer in a herd (more noses, ears and eyes). They stay with a herd until you bump a herd. Then they know they were busted and will tend to try to leave the party as soon as opportunity arise - those are the moments when trackers earn their pay.

quote:

Originally posted by jetdrvr:
Shot this ugly old critter after the most exciting stalk of my life.



BTW, I was hunting with Samaras and got this old boy in the thick thorn at a place called Kitiangare. I wish I could return.

jetdrvr - Very nice old boy. And you shot it with a rifle that has a bolt on the proper side!

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
jetdrvr,

Proper buffalo. I see two old boys in that picture.

I kinda knew how he must have felt, so it wasn't too hard to put him down...

quote:

Originally posted by Cazador humilde:

quote:

Originally posted by jetdrvr:
Shot this ugly old critter after the most exciting stalk of my life.



BTW, I was hunting with Samaras and got this old boy in the thick thorn at a place called Kitiangare. I wish I could return.

jetdrvr - Very nice old boy. And you shot it with a rifle that has a bolt on the proper side!

Yeah, one of the last New Haven left handers.

These articles are worth a read:

The Influence of Trophy Measurement in Cape Buffalo
By Winston Taylor, Environmental Biology, Oxford Brookes University
page 7

Cape Buffalo: Is the SCI Trophy Scoring System Wrong?
By Dr. Kevin Robertson, South Africa
page 10

http://www.africanindaba.co.za...icanIndabaVol5-3.pdf