Just finished watching the two Boddington on Buffalo CDs. He and some Zambezi Valley PHs are pitching that it is better to shoot the Dagga bulls rather than the larger dominant herd bulls. The herd bulls tend to be younger bulls.

They pitch that these Dagga bulls are the "real" trophy bulls, in spite of the fact that they are the old, past their prime, worn down horn bulls or (for that matter) were never prime bulls, which are now herd outcasts. It appears, at least in the Zambezi Valley, the big trophy bulls are being left in the bush by some of the PHs.

In the States we might call shooting these Dagga bulls management bulls - that is, culling the heard of the inferior or past their prime animals.

What do you think of this concept that Boddington is pitching?

Regards, AIU

In the US,we take out management bucks that do not appear to have strong genetics (an issue by itself).
Not the same as going after an old buff, that maybe had his day with the cows and is now in isolation having been forced out of the herd by a stronger,younger bull.

These are real trophies, and IMO much more
difficult to hunt than the bulls in a herd.

If these outfits are urging you to shoot smaller or broken horned cull bulls they should charge smaller cull trophy fees for them.

And of course not all dugga boys are done with breeding, many move in and out of the herds from time to time. I really don't mind shooting an old junk bull but it should be at a reduced price.

I may be mistaken, but I don't think it matters, from a conservation perspective.

As long as one only shoots mature animals, of course.

Dugga boys are almost always mature old bulls. That is not true of herd bulls.

IMHO, the mistake, and the shame, is when a hunter shoots a wide but immature herd bull. Hunters need to leave off shooting the youngsters, no matter their size, so that they can breed and spread their good genes as they mature.

Personally, I have shot both dugga boys and mature old herd bulls, and for a number of reasons, I prefer to hunt the dugga boys, in their small bachelor groups.

Haven't seen the videos, or been to Africa, but what is better for the herd, management wise?

Take out younger, possibly wider, but not hard bossed herd bulls, or take out the mature animals that are not as important to the herds overall health?

Shoot the old ones. A true trophy buff has his boss worn smooth as ebony furniture no matter what the width or what kind of shape he is in physically. Give me that worn boss a roman nose and dewlap anytime over inches of horn.

I have shot both and in my experience, dugga boys are infinitely easier to hunt than herd bulls. Herd bulls are hard due to the bazillion cows watching everything.

One thing that I would add is that (at least per some of the PH's I hunted with/around in Zim) part of the reason to hunt the Dagga boys is that excessive hunting pressure causes the herd to migrate. In the Save, I was told that they would prefer we not bother the herd so that the buffalo stuck around in the area.

Reportedly, dagga boys to some extent (per Boddingtons book and multiple PH's) will go in/out of herds based on how they "feel" at any given time. Being a herd bull has to be draining on their energy level, as they are constantly fighting other bulls for dominance and also protecting from Lion, etc.

I have also read in some places that they have found that a lot of breeding is actually done by immature bulls, but that may be better answered by a Vet who is familiar with the literature (but I have seen it in multiple places, even if it isn't peer reviewed studies.)

In any case, I know that a year or two ago Mokore was offering what they called a "Dagga Boy Cull hunt" for reduced prices, but you were taking a sub 35" buffalo.

In my experience, the herds are easier to find, but getting the shot at any given good bull is a lot more difficult. Dagga boys are much more a tracking hunt, which is probably the quintessential buffalo hunt.

Personally, while size is great, if the boss isn't hard, its not a mature trophy buffalo. Expect to get some ribbing if you shoot a soft bossed buffalo.

First we need to get the spelling correct, then we can begin to discuss the topic. Please read the perloined article below.

“Two Old Dagga Boys”

While surfing the cable channels a few days ago, I stumbled onto the Outdoor Channel. I watched with intrigue as the hunters on a safari in Lower Zambezi stalked a huge Dagga Boy. Yes, a Dagga Boy - A South African name given to large, old male Cape buffalos living in the region.

The name, coined by hunting outfitter and professional hunter Gerhard Vos, was used by the native guides and hunters in this episode.

Vos grew up on a farm in South Africa and the natives soon learned to use the novel name from him and his clients.

I watched and listened with interest as to how the hunters and guides chose the right animal to be taken or plucked from the herd - in other words, how they selected the right Dagga Boy to shoot.

With diligence they attempted to take only an old male that was basically worthless to the herd. I discovered that these old grumpy bulls often left the main stream population and retired to a solitary life. On occasion they roamed with one or two other Dagga Boys.

The younger males not only bred with the cows, but easily defended the herd against predators, so their presence was vital to the group. The Dagga Boys were basically useless and the old bulls seemed to know it. And the hunters were bent on taking only an old bull.

With ease the hunters and guides were able to distinguish between dominant males, and over-the-hill Dagga Boys.

The Dagga Boys possessed wide bodies with large girths. Their huge horns were worn out in spots, as was the fur on the head between the armaments. Their once muscular bodies were now nothing more than huge, wide carcasses with rounded shoulders, covered with layers of skin and fat. They resembled a barge. Even without binoculars, the hunters could see that the midriffs of old males were out of proportion compared to the rest of their bodies. The legs appeared to be thin and spindly and caused speculation as to whether or not they might still be able to support the massive body above.

When these bulls were hit with a bullet, they sometimes lunged forward. What was once thought of as a “charge” toward the hunter is now theorized to be something much different. They now felt that the Dagga Boy’s legs could not withstand the force of the impact, and the animal most likely collapsed forward, rather than charged forward.

After identifying the correct male, the party stalked their quarry for hours. When the bull’s tracks crisscrossed with those of other buffalos, it was easy to stay on the Dagga Boy’s prints. They were large and they spread out laterally, compared to the hoof prints of younger members of the species.

When the hunting party finally got close enough (at 60 yards) for a shot, they passed it up. Why? The specimen was too old and feeble. They realized it would not make an adequate mount or trophy. They joked that the animal had to be a hundred years old.

The old bull just stared at them, turned and ambled away. He was in no hurry and seemed to care less if the hunters would have taken their shot. His face and eyes indicated that he almost understood that he was totally valueless, even to human hunters.

I couldn’t help it, but I pitied that old Dagga Boy. I felt sorry for him because I can identify with that old fellow.

In the last few years, I noticed that my head is wearing on top too. My shoulders are more rounded now, and are a far cry from the almost block-like display they once exhibited. Skin all over my body seems to be sagging a little, and to be blunt, I’m carrying too much fat. When I put on a T-shirt that fits too snuggly around my midriff, I resemble a large barge. My girth continues to expand, just like the old Cape buffalo’s.

And my legs appear to be thin compared to my upper torso. Although they are the same size they once were; because of the size of my upper-body, they give the illusion to be too spindly to support my weight. Since I’m having more difficulty negotiating stairs lately, they are no doubt starting to lose their effectiveness.

My footprint, when I get out of a pool, reveals a fallen arch and a wider pattern with each passing summer.

You see, I too am a Dagga Boy. I don’t live in Africa and I don’t think I could saunter casually away from someone if they pointed a rifle at me. But otherwise, I do understand the old bull’s disposition.

I don’t feel totally worthless just yet, and hope I don’t feel that way for quite some time. I pray my family doesn’t decide to let me go off alone to retire and die. But I do realize that my day too, will come, and my demeanor will gradually resemble the Dagga Boy’s with each passing year.

In the meantime, I thank God that I was not born a cape buffalo. And if I was born into the herd, I would hope that safari hunters would pass me up too – allow me to nonchalantly walk away and to live another day.

Ah, but you are sorely mistaken.

"Dagga" means marijuana.

"Daga," meaning covered with mud, but pronounced "dugga," would be more precise.

"Dugga," at least in English, if not Swahili, is what is most common, and what serves the best.

Feel the same way about herd bulls, BTW.

quote:

Ah, but you are sorely mistaken.

"Dagga" means marijuana.

"Daga," meaning covered with mud, but pronounced "dugga," would be more precise.

"Dugga," at least in English, if not Swahili, is what is most common, and what serves the best.

Feel the same way about herd bulls, BTW

This ^^^^^^ is 100% correct.

I've hunted and killed both as well and find them equally exciting to hunt.

Trouble is, the word(s) Dagga Boy was not invented by Americans, but by South Africans; and that is how they wrote it.

Here is another article from RSA - the Kapama Private Game Reserve. Story by: Noelle Di Lorenzo a Kapama River Lodge Ranger.

"The Kapama Private Game Reserve occupies a vast area between the northern Drakensberg mountains and the Greater Kruger National Park. It is the largest single-owner game reserve in the region, and is perfectly situated to receive guests flying into Eastgate Airport (Hoedspruit).

"A Dagga Boy, (“Dagga” referring either to mud or as a slang term for crazy), is a bull who has left the breeding herd in his old age. Usually by himself, although sometimes multiple Dagga Boys come together to drink or eat, he is as grumpy and crazy as old men come, and is constantly rolling in the mud to rid himself of pesky parasites, aid in his inevitable hair loss, or to cool down. Buffalo’s eyesight, hearing, and sense of smell is acute and even in their old age Dagga Boys still have reputable use of their senses, which they love to use to stalk and find a ranger out walking in the bush and then proceed to chase them up thorn trees…Ouch! They also are extremely aggressive if wounded naturally or by unsuccessful hunters, and will charge anything within their vicinity, including getting into an argument or two with unsuspecting trees.

Breeding herds, (also known as an Obstinacy), consisting of the younger and more virile bulls, mothers and young of successive generations, and towards the back the aging and sick, also enjoy chasing rangers up said thorn tree, or perhaps chucking young lions half-way across a dam wall, (see Battle at Kruger on YouTube), and will hectically defend their young by stampeding. Our breeding herd here at Kapama is roughly 400 in number and during the winter/spring seasons tend to roam about in huge numbers lazily eating, drinking, nursing their young, and basically just being buffalo.

Accompanied in multiple numbers by the ever present Red-Billed Oxpecker, ready to alarm call at the slightest interruption, our huge breeding herds make for spectacular viewing while on a quiet morning drive such as this morning. Although myself and my guests were high-up relative to the ground while in the Land Cruiser, buffalos still tend to impress in their size and ability to make any unsuspecting guest ill-at-ease by sniffing the air, nose held high, and eyes staring straight at you as if to say, I see you and could charge if I wanted but have better things to do at the moment.

Just for fun, here are some other collective nouns for animals found here at Kapama:

Herd of Buffalo – Obstinacy of Buffalo

Herd of Elephants – Parade of Elephants

Flock of Vultures – Parliament of Vultures

Multiple Leopards – Leap of Leopards

Multiple Rhinos – Crash of Rhinos

Herd of Zebra – Dazzle of Zebra

Group of Giraffe – Journey of Giraffe

Multiple Mongooses – Business of Mongoose"

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
The herd bulls tend to be younger bulls.

They pitch that these Dagga bulls are the "real" trophy bulls, in spite of the fact that
What do you think of this concept that Boddington is pitching?

Regards, AIU

While this is generally true and hunting Old bulls is the way forward, one should never dismiss the herds. During my last Buff hunt (09)and watching Buff during last years hunt we found plenty of old boys amongst the herds. In fact, the solitary bulls where generally young.

Take whatever mature hard bossed bull that presents itself. Preferably broadside.

My buffalo hunting experience is limited to just two hours of the first day of my first trip to Africa in 1983 (the head of the bull I shot from a herd of about 200 animals now hangs in my den) but we did come upon three dugga boys later on that hunt.

Each was a solitary animal, but no one on this forum would have shot one of them. Two had broken off at least 12 inches of horn, the other had broken off both horns close to their bases.

I have a close-up photo of this last dugga boy, and would post it if I knew how. There is no doubt that he was a mean ol' SOB and amply old enough to satisfy anyone. A trophy he was not, unless you like hornless bulls.

Bill Quimby

quote:

Originally posted by billrquimby:
My buffalo hunting experience is limited to just two hours of the first day of my first trip to Africa in 1983 (the head of the bull I shot from a herd of about 200 animals now hangs in my den) but we did come upon three dugga boys later on that hunt.

Each was a solitary animal, but no one on this forum would have shot one of them. Two had broken off at least 12 inches of horn, the other had broken off both horns close to their bases.

I have a close-up photo of this last dugga boy, and would post it if I knew how. There is no doubt that he was a mean ol' SOB and amply old enough to satisfy anyone. A trophy he was not, unless you like hornless bulls.

Bill Quimby

Can always send it to me fairgame@iconnect.zm if you want me to post it?

quote:

Originally posted by billrquimby:
Each was a solitary animal, but no one on this forum would have shot one of them. Two had broken off at least 12 inches of horn, the other had broken off both horns close to their bases.

I'd shoot both in a blink of an eye. In fact I'd trade 3 "typical" old bulls and all the soft bossed babies of 40+ you can imagine for each of those two.

I've seen Bod on Buff 2. I've never shot Buffalo and frankly don't see them as value for my money. If I did hunt Buff, ( and I could be a future customer ), I would want to test my marksmanship and rifle against the largest, heaviest, toughest looking bastard I could find.

I can see the point in leaving younger fitter bulls alone to breed (I take it they don't get to be herd bulls by being nice, small bulls). However as someone said, as long as they are mature then go for it.

The only negative would be if they have been 'shot out' in that area. Leaving herd bulls alone would certainly improve Buff numbers if trophy quality numbers were dwindling.

... did someone say Omay ? ....

quote:

Originally posted by mouse93:

quote:

Originally posted by billrquimby:
Each was a solitary animal, but no one on this forum would have shot one of them. Two had broken off at least 12 inches of horn, the other had broken off both horns close to their bases.

I'd shoot both in a blink of an eye. In fact I'd trade 3 "typical" old bulls and all the soft bossed babies of 40+ you can imagine for each of those two.

Good attitude mate

last bull i shot was an old loner - didn't have a scrotum - wouldn't do much breeding like that. just shoot the old bulls, leave the herds alone

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Take whatever mature hard bossed bull that presents itself. Preferably broadside.

My thoughts exactly!

Only thing I would add would be "at a short distance too!"

Many Dagga-boys will move in and out of the herds and any bull the measures properly, and has a big hard boss, in or out of the herd is just one second away from a bullet from me!

..................... .................

[QUOTE]Originally posted by butchloc:
last bull i shot was an old loner - didn't have a scrotum - [/QUOTE

I have a close (male) relative that apparantely has the same characteristics, but that's another matter entirely!

I'm headed to Zim next July and I'm hoping for an old dugga boy. 'Saw one last year following the herd and I should have taken him. 'Got a respectable, older 39, but I've thought most often of that ancient old guy, hanging back quite a ways, surviving on the leftovers.

quote:

but I've thought most often of that ancient old guy, hanging back quite a ways, surviving on the leftovers.

Those are the ones you want

I have been lucky enough to have shot four bull buffalo. Three were in small bachelor bands and one was from a herd. I much preferred the tracking hunt of the small bachelor groups. It seemded more specialized, more itense and concentrated. While the distance was short, shooting the herd bull was more like target practice. We hid in cover and waited for the right bull to walk past.

I would be interested in Saeed's opinion in light of having hunted the flood plains of Kigosi. That is some tough buffalo hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by billrquimby:
My buffalo hunting experience is limited to just two hours of the first day of my first trip to Africa in 1983 (the head of the bull I shot from a herd of about 200 animals now hangs in my den) but we did come upon three dugga boys later on that hunt.

Each was a solitary animal, but no one on this forum would have shot one of them. Two had broken off at least 12 inches of horn, the other had broken off both horns close to their bases.

I have a close-up photo of this last dugga boy, and would post it if I knew how. There is no doubt that he was a mean ol' SOB and amply old enough to satisfy anyone. A trophy he was not, unless you like hornless bulls.

Bill Quimby

I have to say, despite everything in every book, that broken off old boy is definitely a trophy bull!

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
I have to say, despite everything in every book, that broken off old boy is definitely a trophy bull!

Agreed and this chaps horns are one of natures great artifacts.

Sorry guys, but I didn't (and don't) consider that broken-horned beast to be a trophy. One buffalo is my limit, and I had no desire to look at it the rest of my life on my wall.

I also passed up a moose in the Yukon that my guide, a former gamekeeper in Poland, thought was the greatest trophy he'd ever seen because it had only one huge antler with a very wide palm.

We glassed it for ten minutes and determined that it had not broken off an antler but had been born with only one pedicel. He kept urging me to shoot, saying that freaks and non-typicals were highly sought in his country. He wasn't happy that I let it walk away.

Different strokes, for different folks, I guess.

Bill Quimby

Shot this old boy (aged at over 13 years) shortly after he tried to mount a cow amongst a herd of 200 plus.

He obviously hadn't heard that Dugga boys don't hang with the girls.

From what I understand, some areas of Moz don't really have "dagga boys", they never leave the herds.

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
Shot this old boy (aged at over 13 years) shortly after he tried to mount a cow amongst a herd of 200 plus.

He obviously hadn't heard that Dugga boys don't hang with the girls.

That's a handsome old bull with thick, worn down horns but still full of character - what distance and how many plugs?

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
Shot this old boy (aged at over 13 years) shortly after he tried to mount a cow amongst a herd of 200 plus.
He obviously hadn't heard that Dugga boys don't hang with the girls.

That's a handsome old bull with thick, worn down horns but still full of character - what distance and how many plugs?

Was actually taken at quite a distance probably a tad over 100m with a few shoulder shots with the 9.3x62 and although Id prefer to get closer, It wasn't going to happen as light was fading fast and they where on an open flay surrounded by Waterbuck and Impala.
Turned out a quite enjoyable hunt with the horns now hanging in camp.

ozhunter -

quote:

I also passed up a moose in the Yukon that my guide, a former gamekeeper in Poland, thought was the greatest trophy he'd ever seen because it had only one huge antler with a very wide palm.

There was a post a while back about one-tusked elephants. If the above is representative, I would guess you and I would both pass on a uniphant.

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:

quote:

I also passed up a moose in the Yukon that my guide, a former gamekeeper in Poland, thought was the greatest trophy he'd ever seen because it had only one huge antler with a very wide palm.

There was a post a while back about one-tusked elephants. If the above is representative, I would guess you and I would both pass on a uniphant.

Now lets suppose that this single tusk draws 107 lbs on the scale ...

Somebody once said that one Ferrari is better than two Fiats

mouse I think that was the issue, that it was HUGE tusk and I think Ivan even got googley about it. I dunno... It may seem odd but hell, if I get only ONE elephant, I don't want to have to keep answering the question, "Where is the other one...?"

I guess i'll only know when I have a rifle in my hand and I have a 100 pound uniphant in front of me. :-)

I don't know if I buy into this concept. With the cost of a buffalo hunt I don't think I can bring myself to shoot one of these scrum cap bulls and pay the full going rate.
How do you know which is the dominant bull in a herd? Unlike impala a herd has lots of bulls and the biggest may not be the baddest. I doubt also if the cats are buying into this concept. I can agree with not shooting an immature bull but don't agree with dugga boys only.
How many here would be willing to pay the same rate for a tuskless elephant as a trophy bull? Not many I would guess even though it would benefit the herd. In theory that is exactly what we are being asked to do.

We can blame Rowland Ward for early on using the measurements of only the longest horn or tusk. Don't know if they still do, but it was dumb. I don't want to hang a flawed critter on my wall. Unimoose, uniphants and broken-horn buffalo simply don't impress me, no matter how big or old they are.

Bill Quimby