I posted my feelings on the "hunt" about 2 hours ago,can't believe they are still there.

Safari - Have good hunt! I'll be taking off for a hunt, too.

Sorry but I forgot to reply to one point which I believe you brought up: why bring up these general issues about African lion hunting and conservation in this thread about Mr. Lefermine's hunt?"

I don't know if Mr. Lefermine's hunt was canned or not, whether he was lied to, or even whether or not it matters to him.

But lion hunting is at a crisis/turning point which is changing its ethics. In the past, SA lion hunts were canned and "bad" (even if free ranging hunts like PAC and cull in Krueger and other reserves were unfairly included). Hunts for wild lions outside SA and Namibia were "good".

This is causing problems as described above. Future trends are likely to be hunting wild immature lions will be "bad" (ever heard the explanation that a lion that looks like a lioness with a few strands of mane is like that because of thorn bushes? gotta love it!) and hunting well regulated free roaming lions will hopefull be "good".

You may see people posting reports, writing articles and eventually doing TV shows about these lion hunts. They will involve lions which have been moved using tranquilizers (I've been told was only one group who developed a cattle like transport system where a lion could be moved without tranquilizers), lions behind fence, outfitters assuring hunters that their operation are free roaming / fair chase (which may or may not be true of course), and lastly . . . yes! male lions which have no fear of man and may superficially seem tame.

Hunters interested in lion hunting and conservation will have to think and lot more and a lot deeper. Many of the opinions criticizing Mr. Lefemine's hunt will be out of date and misguided (and may hurt the evolving process of lion conservation / hunting).

So I thought that the widespread critiicism of Mr. Lefermine's hunt would be a good chance to bring up the new issues facing lion hunters (especially if they are deciding what lion hunt to go on).

If there is any interest (after I come back in mid-October), I could post a list I (very humbly) made for myself of considerations which one might think of when researching a lion hunt in SA/Namibia? Please let me know.

quote:

why bring up these general issues about African lion hunting and conservation in this thread about Mr. Lefermine's hunt?"

Because thats what this place is for.

"He's shown himself to be a coward in the field and now shown himself to be a coward in his business affairs."

I guess shooting a free ranging Grizzly with a stickbow is cowardly? I don't know much about the lion hunting situaton in SA, but the amount of personal attacks and inability of some of the posters to remain the least bit civil is suprising.

quote:

I guess shooting a free ranging Grizzly with a stickbow is cowardly? I don't know much about the lion hunting situaton in SA, but the amount of personal attacks and inability of some of the posters to remain the least bit civil is suprising.

You don't know anything about the lion hunting situation? Thats pretty obvious or you would have put your foot in your mouth. Noone here is debating the fact that he has shot a free ranging grizzly or prolly every single other animal he has ever shot. The fact is his lion was as close to a free ranging lion as the MGM lion. I or noone here is questioning his past hunts, plain and simple its this hunt, and for you not to know anything about it and then come and stick up for him is pretty foolish on your part.

that is funny.... someone with 18 posts and a july 2006 registation date getting snooty to a person with 67 posts and a nov 2005 registration date

Pauly - you obviously havent read some of the other posts on this subject.... otherwise you would not have put YOUR foot in your mouth.

Even though I am not one of Pat LeFeminine's fans (and have actually been banned there once or twice), I do not believe him to have tried to "pull a fast one" on everybody.

10 post lol

and you are calling me out on the number of my posts lol you are a fool

ok.... your childishness just showed through.

as you so eloquently put in another post... I have been here longer then you, so I am right and you are wrong... na na a boo boo and your momma wears combat boots too!!

quote:

Originally posted by Sewer_Rat:
ok.... your childishness just showed through.

as you so eloquently put in another post... I have been here longer then you, so I am right and you are wrong... na na a boo boo and your momma wears combat boots too!!

Sewer Rat don't feed the troll, I doubt he's ever set foot in Africa but a self imposed authority on it.

I think Pat's a good guy. He doesn't misrepresent things that I can tell, and is about as candid as anyone in explaining all the details of his hunts. He doesn't edit out the bad stuff like so many others do, and really does share what is going on.

In this case, he was upfront about the lion. It wasn't free ranging, although it was said to go under the fence at times. It was a relocated lion. No reason to assume he is trying to cover something up here - he stated his understanding up front.

It is all speculation as to how "wild" that lion was. I've spent some time around truly "wild" free ranging lions in game parks where they aren't hunted, and they don't seem like they'd be too hard to spot and stalk with a bow to me. "Wildness" is as much about hunting pressure as anything else. Ironically, the tamest animals I've seen were free ranging animals without hunting pressure, while the spookiest were inside enclosures with lots of hunting pressure.

I've followed the bowsite for a while, and the "debate free" is a relatively new optional feature because so many threads get derailed into pissing matches that don't have a lot to do with what the thread-starter wanted.

Pat is certainly well within his rights not to want to discussion of his hunt on his site derailed into a pissing match between antagonists while he is still on the hunt!

Hunting ethics, fair chase, fences, all of that is debated ad nauseum over there...It won't be any different with regards to canned lion hunting, and I'm sure any of you are free to start another thread talking about it, and make the thread open for debate.

But folks who run around here calling other posters "fools" and whatnot should understand that most Internet forums have rules against such personal attacks on others, and that it might be your personality rather than the message of your posts that gets you kicked out of forums....

Anyone else wonder how long ago Pauly3511 was booted from posting on Bowsite.com??????????

Im willing to bet I wont get kicked off this forum.

Jorgie if you want to live vicariously through Jorge with your choice of names its fairly obvious more power to you. you are not liked here as stated before and have went through multiple names here so you comments really mean nothing to me and im sure anyone else. As far as Benton goes just so you know you came over yesterday this plain is not debate free like your beloved Bowsite if you dont like i suggest you go back.

quote:

Originally posted by jorgie:
Anyone else wonder how long ago Pauly3511 was booted from posting on Bowsite.com??????????

I bet a paycheck he lasts longer than you.

Good idea Pauly...Seems like any attempt to match wits with you could only leave me dumber...So I'll just save myself the embarrassment and move along.

quote:

Originally posted by jorgie:
Anyone else wonder how long ago Pauly3511 was booted from posting on Bowsite.com??????????

Get a life.

What really steams me about the "many lives" of these individuals is the fact the Administrators of this site know EXACTLY who they are, (hell we all know and we don't have access to what they see) yet continue to allow them to post, even though they "ban" previous handles.
This idiot over here and the ultimate scumbag Carmello is even allowed to post under his own name, plus a couple of other handles. Those of you who are new here have no idea how positively repulsive this guy is. We all call each other names and insults to no end, that comes with the territory, but this wretched little worm went so far as post false and malicious rumors about wives and daughters for no reason other than to foment hatred, and in that regard, they achieved their objective. So be aware and just ignore them. jorge

I read old post from the past few years for a good 4 hours today so Im getting to know some of these morons. Too bad some are even allowed back.