quote:

These guys will have spent decades building their good reputations and at the very least your actions could easily cost them bookings. At the worst it could put them out of business....... and that to me is not far short of unfair & unethical industrial espionage.

quote:

Either way, dragging the names of innocent parties through the mud for no good reason just ain't cricket!

Absolutely wrong! IF the ones who "have spent decades building their good reputations" ARE INFORMED of Blair's chicanery AND THEN CHOOSE to CONTINUE to allow Blair to represent their business (meaning they PAY him a commission) then they are NO LONGER innocent parties but are enablers helping Blair stay in business and probably continue to rip people off. To extend the metaphor, if you choose to sleep with a dog that you know has fleas, and you wake up with fleas, then the fleas are not the dogs fault, but yours.

You can bluster all you want about reputations, but if someone chooses to KNOWINGLY besmirch theirs by association, it is their fault and not those who point it out.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:

quote:

These guys will have spent decades building their good reputations and at the very least your actions could easily cost them bookings. At the worst it could put them out of business....... and that to me is not far short of unfair & unethical industrial espionage.

quote:

Either way, dragging the names of innocent parties through the mud for no good reason just ain't cricket!

Absolutely wrong! IF the ones who "have spent decades building their good reputations" ARE INFORMED of Blair's chicanery AND THEN CHOOSE to CONTINUE to allow Blair to represent him (meaning they PAY him a commission) then they are NO LONGER innocent parties but are enablers helping Blair stay in business and probably continue to rip people off. To extend the metaphor, if you choose to sleep with a dog that you know has fleas, and you wake up with fleas, then the fleas are not the dogs fault, but yours.

You can bluster all you want about reputations, but if someone chooses to KNOWINGLY besmirch theirs by association, it is their fault and not those who point it out.

I think part of the issue here is that poor outfitters are struggling and they HAVE to take business from Blair or they will go tits up. So they justify keeping that scumbag in business by virtue of "economic necessity."

I don't buy it. You keep Blair in business and sooner or later he will screw another fellow hunter.

Ok, here’s my two cents. For me this is not as cut-and-dry of a discussion as it is for some.

I believe Martin’s comment to the effect of “taking care of Blair’s clients” was in response to the fact that the issue with Blair was primarily a result of the outfitter (Heathington). We all agree Blair (the booking agent) did nothing to help the hunters, and their arrogance in reacting to this matter sets a new benchmark and IMO is very telling as to what type of business they run. I believe I posted a few comments on the Blair/Heathington thread as to what my opinion is on the subject. I think Martin’s response was addressing this aspect...the reality is that they are still in business and booking clients who are hunting with somebody...and that once Martin receives these bookings he makes up for any shortcomings and does his best to take care of the client. This is one aspect of the overall discussion.

Regarding the definition of an agent, Martin does not have a primary / exclusive arrangement with Blair or any booking entity (think of Chifuti), and books many (most?) hunts on his own direct with clients . The same “relationship” would apply to Muchinga (the du Plooys), and if I am not mistaken there are at least two reputable booking agents on this forum alone selling hunts on their behalf. With large areas and associated quotas, the reality is that most outfitters need multiple agents selling for them, as these agents are able reach different markets and clients that the outfitter with an exclusive arrangement may not be able to. Even outfitters who “sell direct” have referring entities that aid them. Some are top notch, some are not, and some are gifted at painting a rosy picture.

What Martin did not address in his posts was the quality of the experience he has had with Blair. Nor has he read thru the pages of posts related to Blair on the other forum to fully appreciate why some are so passionate about this topic, nor following this or related threads. Martin is hunting in the BVC with clients at the moment, but I was able to email with him briefly via a 3G (iPhone) connection. He said that his dealings with Blair have been problematic and “always less than transparent”, and after further reflection and consideration of the overall situation including the particulars of the Blair/ Heathington thread as pointed out, and his past experiences, stated:

quote:

....I will distance myself immediately

The reality is that even if every African outfitter listed above opts to not accept further bookings from Blair, there is a whole bunch of dodgy hunting companies out there who will accept their bookings. I have to believe that Blair’s aggressive sales tactics are generating at least some new business despite what some might observe at the major shows. We read about this all the time, and I receive weekly emails from booking agents who I never heard of offering hunts with no-name African outfitters in areas that I cannot identify or can as ones to stay away from. The unfortunate clients who fall victim in the future will not have these “finest Outfitters” making up for the shortcomings, and if the Heathington experience is any indication of the support Blair provides to their hunters when problems arise, these hunters are going to be in trouble. Perhaps this is what will spell the ultimate demise of Blair’s business, time will tell, but there will be some more causalities. The hope is that hunters educate themselves.

All this being said, to be clear, I 100% agree with the “top down” effort to alert the various outfitters, as it is bothersome to see these quality companies associated with Blair Worldwide - while not badgering them in the process. Remember some may have deals in the works, inbound clients with issues that still need to be sorted, and business realities that need time to be adjusted for. And while those of us in business are smart to listen to our clients and prospects, nobody appreciates being told how to run their business, especially those who do not read AR and don’t know how incredibly smart we are.

We need to keep things in perspective too, and while we may all want to grab a pitchfork, I suspect if we walked a few months in the outfitters shoes we would see this to be just another piece of ugliness to have to deal with. Remember where our friends do business, and if you cannot appreciate this aspect, I humbly and respectfully state that you have not been privy to what I have. I’m NOT defending anybody nor stating that once educated the outfitters should not make EVERY effort to distance themselves, but just don’t be surprised if the reaction is not as quick as you would like. And I would also not be surprised, as stated previously, to see Blair slow to remove any references. Just sayin’.

All the above would apply to the outfitters accepting hunts from North America and elsewhere. Kamchatka, Kyrgyzstan, Alaska, New Mexico...anybody who receives Blair’s emails (despite being asked to be taken off their list!!!!) will attest to the fact that they list dozens and dozens of hunts, which IIRC are w/o the outfitter names and most often with vague descriptions. It will take a bit more time and effort and commitment to sort these out...

Bill, you have made some great posts on AR. This is one of them.

Great post Bill!

Congratulations to Mr. Pieters! Good move.

I have taken a self imposed break from this thread. While I feel that I can normally retain some measure of objectivity with most subjects I was reading the responses on this thread directed at me and thought that with this Blair situation maybe I had lost that objectivity and perspective. After going back through it today I would like to offer a public apology.

I obviously was not clear on my objective. My objective was to let the operators know that Jeff Blair was advertising with their names and that Jeff Blair has a horrible reputation. I mentioned multiple times that I felt that most of the operators probably had no idea about the Larry Heathington/Desert Sheep issue and that this was to make them aware of that. I mentioned that I would hate to see these operators with good reputations have their hard earned reputations tarnished because of an association with such a shady individual like Jeff Blair. When somebody said that we should give these operators the "benefit of the doubt", I absolutely agreed. Obviously I did a piss poor job of making that clear. I went back and read my first 3 or 4 posts on this thread and its clear to me but not clear to a lot of people here.

Despicable, disgusting, outrageous and careless are just a few of the adjectives people have used here and on PM's to me about this thread. I have been accused of breaking out the pitchforks and conducting a witch hunt and told that I may have run these guys out of business. I had one person that I have respect for tell me that if he were Martin Pieters he would actually file suit against me. For what I have no idea but this what he said. I wish my intent had been more clear

All this being said, I accept full responsibility for not being more clear. I apologize that because of my strong feeling for Jeff Blair and his business practices my message was lost. Thats on me, nobody else. I have never wanted to see good outfitters go out of business and I have routinely given potential clients names and numbers of competitors that run honorable businesses just to give them more options that may suit their needs better. Martin, I am sorry that this thread got out of hand. I mentioned on here and in my email to you that I have a lot of respect for you and your business and if and when I go to Africa you will be on my short list of people to go with. If you feel my intent was more malicious than what I felt it was then I apologize.

What I am not going to apologize for is for sending these guys emails letting them know what Jeff Blair was about. I will not apologize for letting them know that I will NEVER do business with any known associate of Jeff Blair. I feel strongly about this and feel that there is no room in this sport or in this industry for people like Jeff Blair. If these guys want to do business with Blair thats their choice but I'm out at that point. Jeff Blair is worse than an ambulance chaser. In my mind I would be doing a disservice to these guys if I didn't bring it up and let them know. I hope that people realize that I am not the guy that lumped these operators in with Jeff Blair, Jeff Blair did that in an email that reaches a LOT of people! I wasn't even the first person on AR to bring it up, I was just the first guy to start a thread about it.

Accountability is not a bad thing. I hold others accountable but I try to hold myself accountable as well and this is the reason I decided to post this. Again, it wasn't my intent to try and do anything other than let these guys know what Blair was doing and to let them know where I stand. Again, if you feel different then I apologize and its on me for not being more clear

You're a better man than I am, Drummond. I would not be inclined to give that much benefit of the doubt.

Absolutely no apologies needed - as far as I'm concerned.

But then again, I have always suffered under the handicap of being able to speak, write, read and understand English.

quote:

Originally posted by drummondlindsey:
I have taken a self imposed break from this thread. While I feel that I can normally retain some measure of objectivity with most subjects I was reading the responses on this thread directed at me and thought that with this Blair situation maybe I had lost that objectivity and perspective. After going back through it today I would like to offer a public apology.

I obviously was not clear on my objective. My objective was to let the operators know that Jeff Blair was advertising with their names and that Jeff Blair has a horrible reputation. I mentioned multiple times that I felt that most of the operators probably had no idea about the Larry Heathington/Desert Sheep issue and that this was to make them aware of that. I mentioned that I would hate to see these operators with good reputations have their hard earned reputations tarnished because of an association with such a shady individual like Jeff Blair. When somebody said that we should give these operators the "benefit of the doubt", I absolutely agreed. Obviously I did a piss poor job of making that clear. I went back and read my first 3 or 4 posts on this thread and its clear to me but not clear to a lot of people here.

Despicable, disgusting, outrageous and careless are just a few of the adjectives people have used here and on PM's to me about this thread. I have been accused of breaking out the pitchforks and conducting a witch hunt and told that I may have run these guys out of business. I had one person that I have respect for tell me that if he were Martin Pieters he would actually file suit against me. For what I have no idea but this what he said. I wish my intent had been more clear

All this being said, I accept full responsibility for not being more clear. I apologize that because of my strong feeling for Jeff Blair and his business practices my message was lost. Thats on me, nobody else. I have never wanted to see good outfitters go out of business and I have routinely given potential clients names and numbers of competitors that run honorable businesses just to give them more options that may suit their needs better. Martin, I am sorry that this thread got out of hand. I mentioned on here and in my email to you that I have a lot of respect for you and your business and if and when I go to Africa you will be on my short list of people to go with. If you feel my intent was more malicious than what I felt it was then I apologize.

What I am not going to apologize for is for sending these guys emails letting them know what Jeff Blair was about. I will not apologize for letting them know that I will NEVER do business with any known associate of Jeff Blair. I feel strongly about this and feel that there is no room in this sport or in this industry for people like Jeff Blair. If these guys want to do business with Blair thats their choice but I'm out at that point. Jeff Blair is worse than an ambulance chaser. In my mind I would be doing a disservice to these guys if I didn't bring it up and let them know. I hope that people realize that I am not the guy that lumped these operators in with Jeff Blair, Jeff Blair did that in an email that reaches a LOT of people! I wasn't even the first person on AR to bring it up, I was just the first guy to start a thread about it.

Accountability is not a bad thing. I hold others accountable but I try to hold myself accountable as well and this is the reason I decided to post this. Again, it wasn't my intent to try and do anything other than let these guys know what Blair was doing and to let them know where I stand. Again, if you feel different then I apologize and its on me for not being more clear

Drummond:

You have the ability to self reflect. The world would be a better place if everyone had that ability.

Drummond,

I made it plain that your original postings on this caused me to lose a degree of respect for you........ your latest post on this has caused me to regain my respect for you.

I'm amazed that we haven't heard from any of the named Outfitters listed by Blair since Martin responded back in May.

Out of personal choice, I will NOT deal with anyone who continues to deal with Blair once they are made aware of his behavior.

Deleted - apologies

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
This is the first time that I am reading this particular thread.

If accepting a client from Blair is considered wrong or disreputable then how about this Political situation below?

GWB & the Republican party ruined the US economy & sent the whole world to ruin (except for the top 1% super rich).

So why are so many people still supporting the Republican party?

The Republican party should have been dead, buried and purified by now! Why are all the republicans refusing to support Obama for rescuing the US economy?

I will be hunting with Martin Pieters next September

What has the actions of Blaire to do with politics?

Please keep this thread free from politics.

You want to hunt with Blaire or any of his supporters, that your choice.

Most of us try to avoid dealing with crooks, and those who associate with them.

consider the source,Saeed. i am not sure what an Indian living in NZ knows about US politics- but, FOR SURE HE SHOULD TAKE STUPID COMMENTS TO THE POLITICAL FORUM!!

I was quite surprised to see the FULL PAGE ad by Blair in SCI Safari Times newspaper this week!!

OH well, I guess ad and exhibitor money is precious!!

I reported a Namibia outfitter after a wasted hunt for Damara Dik Dik...promises broken, did not deliver, he lied to me in front of other reputable hunters about the quality of trophy, left the lodge during my hunt to tend his Condo Development project...taking the other clients to airport...left me with the (inexperienced) hired help...and I almost missed my flight...and later hi jacked my trophies!! I found out later he had been dismissed from the PH Association...but ALAS...he was back at the Convention following!!
Sure would be nice if the Big Hunters Organizations would sort out the bad players...for everyone's GOOD!!

Considering Nakihunter's comments of recent...he must then like OBAMA?? Now where does that put him....not in our CAMP.... where ever in the world he comes from!!

quote:

Originally posted by 470EDDY:
I was quite surprised to see the FULL PAGE ad by Blair in SCI Safari Times newspaper this week!!

OH well, I guess ad and exhibitor money is precious!!

I reported a Namibia outfitter after a wasted hunt for Damara Dik Dik...promises broken, did not deliver, he lied to me in front of other reputable hunters about the quality of trophy, left the lodge during my hunt to tend his Condo Development project...taking the other clients to airport...left me with the (inexperienced) hired help...and I almost missed my flight...and later hi jacked my trophies!! I found out later he had been dismissed from the PH Association...but ALAS...he was back at the Convention following!!
Sure would be nice if the Big Hunters Organizations would sort out the bad players...for everyone's GOOD!!

Considering Nakihunter's comments of recent...he must then like OBAMA?? Now where does that put him....not in our CAMP.... where ever in the world he comes from!!

Don't hold your breath.

Only MONEY matters to SCI.

Ethics and hunters interests take back seat way down the list.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

Only MONEY matters to SCI.
Ethics and hunters interests take back seat way down the list.