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Phil: A few years ago I booked a hunt directly through an outfitter in Namibia for a leopard hunt. A little while later, Namibia suspended leopard hunting. It took a while, but I eventually got my down payment back from the outfitter. Who wants to bet Blair would have kept his commission for selling that hunt? For that reason alone no one should accept business from Blair. | |||
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No one should accept business from him because you are guessing he kept a commission?  A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Blair already refused to return his commission on a similar occasion. | |||
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Make that a +3. Taulman and USO are a POS like Blair. | |||
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When an outfitter accepts a hunter from a "Booking Agent" he doesn't know well, doesn't have a contract with, I have done this on a couple of occasions but not anymore, this is a possible bad situation. The outfitter doesn't know or have any idea what the Booking Agent has or has not told the hunter in regards to details of the hunt. A great deal of misunderstanding can easily arise from this type of arrangement on both sides of the coin. Just saying. Larry Sellers SCI Life Member | |||
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Matt, I'm sure you know some of the history with Blair. But just in case you don't, here is some light reading on the subject, describing how "Blair was stuck in a difficult situation", all 23 pages of it: http://forums.accuratereloadin...471078051#3471078051 | |||
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It's pretty easy for the outfitter to demand to have direct contact with the client. I would demand it!! Hi Todd - I know a bit, enough, about it. I was just laughing at the way AZW worded that. To the casual observer it wouldnt really make sense. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Just a little refresher of why Jeff Blair didn't feel the need to refund his "commission" in Jeff Blair's own words. Well, maybe his attorneys own words but you get the point. This guy is a complete douche bag and why anybody would work with him is beyond me. I really thought that once this was brought to the outfitters mentioned in Blair's solicitation they would publicly state that they wouldn't work with him and thank the members for bringing this to their attention. Never in my wildest dreams did I think they would admit to knowing what happened and still work with the guy. Read his quote again, he's basically saying fuck the hunter, I got my money, you figure out how to get a hunt out of the deal, it's not my problem anymore. Somebody please explain to me how anybody could work with a piece of shit like that. | |||
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That was my sentiment. An organization with such supposedly high moral standards for its active memebers and convention exhibitors should review the un-ethical things that Blair has done and terminate him from the SCI Convention. That would be a serious damper on Blairs ability to survive this business. Blaming any of the outfitters that Blair just happens to book the occaisonal hunter with is no different than blaming the occasional hunter who goes to Blair, not knowing what a crooked bastard he is. You cant inform everyone, but taking away Blairs SCI status would be a good start. It is unreal to me that SCI would allow such an proven underhanded crook like Blair to attend the convention as an exhibitor. I guess morals does not speak the volume that money does with SCI-and the very reason that I am not so enamored with SCI anymore One fact I am pretty sure I can state: No on on AR wants Martin Peiters or the other outfitters or companies mentioned on Blairs Website out of business Another fact I think I can state: Sending multiple letters and emails to SCI and DSC voicing your concern over the un-ethical behaivor of BWW may get Blair kicked out or at least make him pay ammends to keep his position with these organizations | |||
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I agree 100%. This guy is a no good mother f$#@ker on the best of days. The family involved went away way too easily IMHO. I don't think they ever contacted SCI but I may be wrong. Things sure seemed slow around the BWW booth at the convention. | |||
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From past performance, I would not hold my breath for SCI to do anything about this. | |||
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Unless someone files a formal written complaint, SCI will not do anything. I do not think a complaint was filed but may be wrong. | |||
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Larry - don't allow your common sense to get in the way of a good old-fashioned SCI flogging!!! A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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FR, I've got to disagree with the bold part of your statement above. The difference is that the outfitter knows what a POS BBW is and has made the decision to continue doing business with him. Per your own definition, the client that books with BBW and isn't aware of the problems with this agency, well ... he is unaware of the problems. One knows and continues to do business with, the other doesn't know and is likely to be taken for a ride. There is a HUGE difference between the two IMO. | |||
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Why do you use an booking agent????? Have done a booking with Martin p. later this year bye myself, no problem. Terje Kvestad | |||
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Dr b - There have been several thousand threads here on AR in the past regarding "Why do you use a booking agent".  Check some out, they are fantastic reading!!!!Larry Sellers SCI Life Member
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 Jepp, i know Terje Kvestad | |||
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Because "there are no gambles when you book with Blair WorldWide Hunting."  | |||
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And even so, if it is not brought to the attention of the proper person or persons, i.e. those individuals with a genuine interest in seeing a complaint given due attention, it will end up in the trash can or filed as "things to do when and if". Our esteemed Larry Shores confirmed something very similar.  | |||
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I will personally take a written complaint on this to a board/executive committee member if one is drafted . | |||
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Larry, There is an ethics committee that I dealt with regarding Zahir Mulla. A mister Dean was in charge of it at the time. Be forwarned that if BWW is a significant donor, you will receive significant push back particularly from Libby Grimes who is in charge of the convention. Jeff | |||
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Perhaps. If so, that would tell us a whole lot about SCI. One thing for sure, nothing will be done if no complaint is filed. | |||
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[/QUOTE] That was my sentiment. An organization with such supposedly high moral standards for its active memebers and convention exhibitors should review the un-ethical things that Blair has done and terminate him from the SCI Convention. That would be a serious damper on Blairs ability to survive this business. Blaming any of the outfitters that Blair just happens to book the occaisonal hunter with is no different than blaming the occasional hunter who goes to Blair, not knowing what a crooked bastard he is. [/QUOTE] FR, I've got to disagree with the bold part of your statement above. The difference is that the outfitter knows what a POS BBW is and has made the decision to continue doing business with him. Per your own definition, the client that books with BBW and isn't aware of the problems with this agency, well ... he is unaware of the problems. One knows and continues to do business with, the other doesn't know and is likely to be taken for a ride. There is a HUGE difference between the two IMO.[/QUOTE] Well Todd, let me put it another way. The outfitters and manufacturers Blair is listing on his website have not according to the various reports on this thread actually given permission to Blair to use their name. Martin came on here and specifically said BWW was not his booking agent. I would guess this is the case with the majority of outfitters and companies Blair lists. Blair is listing all the "A" rated outfitters he can - simple name recognition selling. Its like word tags on the internet. Also, "A" Rated outfitters generally have very high ethical standards and are unlikely to not follow thru with promises. It does not matter who the booking agent might be, they will see to it that things come together as they should. They have excellant reputations and are household names in the hunting community. Thats why Blair list's them, even without their knowledge I can call any booking agent in the world, tell them I want to go to a place with a certain outfitter, and hunt a particular animal and they will get in touch with that outfitter and make the arraingements. To a point I have done this before. You cant blame the outfitter for accepting these bookings. To throw the guys that Blair lists on his website under the bus is a bit harsh, its not really their fault. To politly ask that they support our views of getting rid of Blair by asking him not to list their company, services or product on his website because of all the reasons that have been laid out in the various forums is not out of line and the best path forward for hunters and the outfitters. No good outfitters in the hunting business wants their name associated with a crook. No hunting/booking opportunities will be lost, another booking agent will fill the void left by Blair. Best of the best, a series of formal complaints with SCI and DSC. SCI "rankings" are based upon money, specifically doanations. Blair has gotten to his position in SCI with auction donations. SCI is willing to overlook hearsay for money. So much for high ethical standards | |||
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That was my sentiment. An organization with such supposedly high moral standards for its active memebers and convention exhibitors should review the un-ethical things that Blair has done and terminate him from the SCI Convention. That would be a serious damper on Blairs ability to survive this business. Blaming any of the outfitters that Blair just happens to book the occaisonal hunter with is no different than blaming the occasional hunter who goes to Blair, not knowing what a crooked bastard he is. [/QUOTE] FR, I've got to disagree with the bold part of your statement above. The difference is that the outfitter knows what a POS BBW is and has made the decision to continue doing business with him. Per your own definition, the client that books with BBW and isn't aware of the problems with this agency, well ... he is unaware of the problems. One knows and continues to do business with, the other doesn't know and is likely to be taken for a ride. There is a HUGE difference between the two IMO.[/QUOTE] Well Todd, let me put it another way. The outfitters and manufacturers Blair is listing on his website have not according to the various reports on this thread actually given permission to Blair to use their name. Martin came on here and specifically said BWW was not his booking agent. I would guess this is the case with the majority of outfitters and companies Blair lists. Blair is listing all the "A" rated outfitters he can - simple name recognition selling. Its like word tags on the internet. Also, "A" Rated outfitters generally have very high ethical standards and are unlikely to not follow thru with promises. It does not matter who the booking agent might be, they will see to it that things come together as they should. They have excellant reputations and are household names in the hunting community. Thats why Blair list's them, even without their knowledge I can call any booking agent in the world, tell them I want to go to a place with a certain outfitter, and hunt a particular animal and they will get in touch with that outfitter and make the arraingements. To a point I have done this before. You cant blame the outfitter for accepting these bookings. To throw the guys that Blair lists on his website under the bus is a bit harsh, its not really their fault. To politly ask that they support our views of getting rid of Blair by asking him not to list their company, services or product on his website because of all the reasons that have been laid out in the various forums is not out of line and the best path forward for hunters and the outfitters. No good outfitters in the hunting business wants their name associated with a crook. No hunting/booking opportunities will be lost, another booking agent will fill the void left by Blair. Best of the best, a series of formal complaints with SCI and DSC. SCI "rankings" are based upon money, specifically doanations. Blair has gotten to his position in SCI with auction donations. SCI is willing to overlook hearsay for money. So much for high ethical standards[/QUOTE] FR I could agree with what you are saying concerning Blair listing these outfitters and manufacturers and their not knowing they have been listed on his website. However, Martin specifically stated here in this thread that he does accept bookings from Blair. What he hasn't acknowledged is whether or not he is aware of BBW's shady dealings. So again, I have to disagree with the part of your previous statement that I quoted in bold. Martin KNOWS about Blair listing him on his website and is choosing to continue doing business with him. That is the difference. This is certainly coming off as me being against Martin. That isn't my intention. My intention, just like in the Mark Sullivan threads, was to make accurate statements about the subject. Guys can take it from there concerning their opinions. | |||
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FR, I've got to disagree with the bold part of your statement above. The difference is that the outfitter knows what a POS BBW is and has made the decision to continue doing business with him. Per your own definition, the client that books with BBW and isn't aware of the problems with this agency, well ... he is unaware of the problems. One knows and continues to do business with, the other doesn't know and is likely to be taken for a ride. There is a HUGE difference between the two IMO.[/QUOTE] Well Todd, let me put it another way. The outfitters and manufacturers Blair is listing on his website have not according to the various reports on this thread actually given permission to Blair to use their name. Martin came on here and specifically said BWW was not his booking agent. I would guess this is the case with the majority of outfitters and companies Blair lists. Blair is listing all the "A" rated outfitters he can - simple name recognition selling. Its like word tags on the internet. Also, "A" Rated outfitters generally have very high ethical standards and are unlikely to not follow thru with promises. It does not matter who the booking agent might be, they will see to it that things come together as they should. They have excellant reputations and are household names in the hunting community. Thats why Blair list's them, even without their knowledge I can call any booking agent in the world, tell them I want to go to a place with a certain outfitter, and hunt a particular animal and they will get in touch with that outfitter and make the arraingements. To a point I have done this before. You cant blame the outfitter for accepting these bookings. To throw the guys that Blair lists on his website under the bus is a bit harsh, its not really their fault. To politly ask that they support our views of getting rid of Blair by asking him not to list their company, services or product on his website because of all the reasons that have been laid out in the various forums is not out of line and the best path forward for hunters and the outfitters. No good outfitters in the hunting business wants their name associated with a crook. No hunting/booking opportunities will be lost, another booking agent will fill the void left by Blair. Best of the best, a series of formal complaints with SCI and DSC. SCI "rankings" are based upon money, specifically doanations. Blair has gotten to his position in SCI with auction donations. SCI is willing to overlook hearsay for money. So much for high ethical standards[/QUOTE] FR I could agree with what you are saying concerning Blair listing these outfitters and manufacturers and their not knowing they have been listed on his website. However, Martin specifically stated here in this thread that he does accept bookings from Blair. What he hasn't acknowledged is whether or not he is aware of BBW's shady dealings. So again, I have to disagree with the part of your previous statement that I quoted in bold. Martin KNOWS about Blair listing him on his website and is choosing to continue doing business with him. That is the difference. This is certainly coming off as me being against Martin. That isn't my intention. My intention, just like in the Mark Sullivan threads, was to make accurate statements about the subject. Guys can take it from there concerning their opinions.[/QUOTE] Todd - you and I should plan an Elephant hunting trip to discuss this further  | |||
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No doubt!! Let's make it a 21 day!! | |||
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You said the outfitter refunded your money. Again, you are comparing outfitters with booking agents. The difference is that good outfitters (and to be honest good booking agents as well) want to stay in business and cheating folks out of their money is a piss poor way to do that. I did not get in this dust-up to defend either Blair or Heathington. I completely agree with you that Heathington should be in jail and Blair should have immediately refunded his commission - but if he hasn't, and has been sued, I am assuming that someone signed a contract in agreement that the deposit was non-refundable ? I am sorry that anyone had to go through this - but it again emphysizes the fact that you need to check references, get, read and understand the contract and deal directly with the outfitter. After all, that is who is giving you the service and including a middleman introduces plenty of other potential problems. Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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21 days itis! Where to and who with? Can I take my double? I dont have a 500, just a 450 IMO better than the 500 anyway  | |||
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You been talking to Jorge lately?  | |||
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A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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you may not be aware of it, but SCI charges about $500 to accept a complaint and investigate it. a friend of mine contacted them to file a complaint against a Tz outfitter and was told to send them a check for $500( IIRC) along with the info AND THEY WOULD LOOK INTO IT.... first for hunters, indeed( you think maybe it mattered that the outfitter in question was a major donator)? Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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Who exactly did your friend speak to? The janitor? A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Might have done more good actually. Instead of speaking to one of the higher ups who was employed by Out of Africa  | |||
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Your anti-SCI repertoire is waning Saeed!! A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Matt, SCI past performance in this sort of thing has not exactly been something us as members would have been proud of. | |||
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No one has ever claimed that SCI is faultless or blameless.... in this case bringing up ancient history does not help your anti-SCI cause at all. OOA were booted from SCI convention years ago. If you guys want Blair booted... make some representations. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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That is simply not true. I brought my case against Usangu Safaris and was not asked for money. After I got around the convention people, the Ethics Committee moved faurly fast. Of course my case was devastating in the amount and variety of evidence proffered. Jeff | |||
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Not to get too far off track here I am just wondering if Martin is still standing firm and going to continue to work with Jeff Blair? I am drafting an email to send to the rest of the safari companies listed to see if they are going to continue to work with that thief as well | |||
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Good for you, drummondlindsey! There is no way that any honest and upright outfitter would ever, under any circumstances, pay an agent's fee to Blair for any client referral. There are other ways to skin that cat. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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