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| One of Us |
I booked a elephant hunt at the SCI show for 2023. They told me they can import the ivory to the USA doing the right paperwork. Do you think I am good on the hunt? Has anyone hunted with Zander Osmers Safaris out of South Africa? Even if I can't the price is reasonable. | ||
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| Administrator |
Does South Africa offer elephant hunts?? | |||
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One of Us |
Yes, it is legal to import ivory into the USA as of now. And, while USFWS can issue you an import permit...don't count on them doing so. I have been waiting since August 2017 for one permit. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| One of Us |
The better question might be: Has any ivory been imported into America where the elephant was shot after April 1, 2014? I have friends who have been told their ivory is still being worked on, but personally, I am not aware of any making it into America on elephants shot after that date. Safari Speciality Importers posts quite a bit on this site. You might ask him for examples of ivory being imported on elephants shot after the above date. | |||
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| One of Us |
While it is legal dont hold your breath. The importation of ivory will simply be put on the back burner and the only hope of that changing is if there is a change in administration in the USA | |||
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| One of Us |
Hope you are able to get your ivory one day soon! When a country can deprive you the possession of your personal property......... | |||
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| One of Us |
Yes Saeed...mostly adjoining or near Kruger NP. | |||
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One of Us |
You can apply for an import permit and the USFWS has stated they will review permits in 2022, but reviewing and approving are two different things. No elephant import permits have been issued for the past several years, but the permits also have not been reviewed either so at least they're making steps in a positive direction. The current backlog is around 600 applications for lion, elephant, argali and leopard in the USFWS database, which was exacerbated by the pandemic and a new online application system that was a disaster when they first rolled it out. Our clients have been getting lion and leopard import permits regularly, but not elephant. Hopefully that changes for 2022, but it's a stretch to say you can import elephant without any actually being imported yet. Greg Greg Brownlee Neal and Brownlee, LLC Quality Worldwide Big Game Hunts Since 1975 918/299-3580 greg@NealAndBrownlee.com www.NealAndBrownlee.com Instagram: @NealAndBrownleeLLC Hunt reports: Botswana 2010 Alaska 2011 Bezoar Ibex, Turkey 2012 Mid Asian Ibex, Kyrgyzstan 2014 | |||
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| One of Us |
Are people actually getting their lions back in the states, I knew some leopards where coming back? I'm looking at next year. | |||
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| One of Us |
Thanks for the info. Then my PH is correct. Hopefully I figure by 2023 it will get easier. Lol Replicas aren't the same as the real thing. Pictures and the experience should be worth a lot. | |||
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Got you beat. Waiting since May 2015 ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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| One of Us |
We had our hunt professionally video'd once the ban made it apparent we would get the Ivory. Well worth the cost. ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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Duuude… that was 2015? Holy hell man… crazy. | |||
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Hell I’m right now trying to get it sent to my house in Czech as rest of you I can’t get it here to my home in MT Plague and cholera on USFW and Libs as far as I’m concerned " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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| One of Us |
From certain areas, yes. They process them slowly, and USFWS requires a substantial amount of information on the area, operation of the area, funding for anti-poaching and the cats themselves in order to approve the import permit. It usually takes about a year before they start reviewing the applications. I submit a ton of info to my clients at the time of submission so when they do review they're not asking for more information. When they do, they'll see everything they need to hopefully approve relatively quickly. I shot a big lion in Zambia in mid 2021 and they still haven't even reviewed my application. On a positive note, I just got an email from FWS on one of my clients who hunted in November 2020 so they're still reviewing them. Once they begin reviewing the permit, you have 45 days to get them any additional information they ask for or they'll abandon the application. If you don't have that info submitted at time of application or readily available before review, it can be difficult to complete it in time. Greg Greg Brownlee Neal and Brownlee, LLC Quality Worldwide Big Game Hunts Since 1975 918/299-3580 greg@NealAndBrownlee.com www.NealAndBrownlee.com Instagram: @NealAndBrownleeLLC Hunt reports: Botswana 2010 Alaska 2011 Bezoar Ibex, Turkey 2012 Mid Asian Ibex, Kyrgyzstan 2014 | |||
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One of Us |
USFW is beginning the review process on the backlog of Elephant CITES, starting with those from Namibia first. Safari Specialty Importers manages and oversees the import process and CITES Application for all of our clients. We have weekly meetings with USFW officers regarding our permits, and provide them will all the conservation data from the country of origin when we apply for the permit. This speeds up the process by eliminating the excuse of not having the information. Contact me if you have any questions regarding CITES permits and the Import process. | |||
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| One of Us |
I keep up with this pretty closely and I know of none either. I am happy to stand corrected. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| One of Us |
Unlikely anything significantly better will be happening on ele in 2023. That said...I happily hunt them anyway. Do not go "planning" to get your ivory...cause a very good chance you won't. I do recommend going however...for the experience of the hunt. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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HA! Got all of you beat. Shot mine in Dec. 2013, prior to the ban. By the time my taxidermy work was done, the ban was in place. Even shot prior to the ban, have not been able to get it imported yet. | |||
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| Administrator |
When was the last permit issued? Where did the ivory come from? | |||
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| One of Us |
That's unfortunate. I was in the field when the ban went into place. Shot an elephant 3-4 days prior to the ban. Shot another one 3-4 days after the ban. Got the preban elephant plus leopard/taxidermy back in about a year. No problem at all. My importer did an excellent job staying on top of the situation and the CITES. All the best in getting your property back soon. | |||
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| One of Us |
I'm going back to the Nyae Nyae in July to hunt non trophy elephant. It's as good of a elephant you can get, much cheaper and you don't have to worry about the ivory. | |||
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Yes all my client tusks before 2017 is in the USA. As to post November 2017....I would love to know..... Charl van Rooyen Owner Infinito Travel Group www.infinito-safaris.com charl@infinito-safaris.com Cell: +27 78 444 7661 Tel: +27 13 262 4077 Fax:+27 13 262 3845 Hereford Street 28A Groblersdal 0470 Limpopo R.S.A. "For the Infinite adventure" Plains Game Dangerous Game Bucket List Specialists Wing-Shooting In House Taxidermy Studio In House Dip and Pack Facility In House Shipping Service Non-Hunting Tours and Safaris Flight bookings "I promise every hunter visiting us our personal attention from the moment we meet you, until your trophies hang on your wall. Our all inclusive service chain means you work with one person (me) taking responsibility during the whole process. Affordable and reputable Hunting Safaris is our game! With a our all inclusive door to door service, who else do you want to have fun with?" South Africa Tanzania Uganda | |||
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| One of Us |
Yes they are! Charl van Rooyen Owner Infinito Travel Group www.infinito-safaris.com charl@infinito-safaris.com Cell: +27 78 444 7661 Tel: +27 13 262 4077 Fax:+27 13 262 3845 Hereford Street 28A Groblersdal 0470 Limpopo R.S.A. "For the Infinite adventure" Plains Game Dangerous Game Bucket List Specialists Wing-Shooting In House Taxidermy Studio In House Dip and Pack Facility In House Shipping Service Non-Hunting Tours and Safaris Flight bookings "I promise every hunter visiting us our personal attention from the moment we meet you, until your trophies hang on your wall. Our all inclusive service chain means you work with one person (me) taking responsibility during the whole process. Affordable and reputable Hunting Safaris is our game! With a our all inclusive door to door service, who else do you want to have fun with?" South Africa Tanzania Uganda | |||
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| One of Us |
Bama how did you get in on that hunt. I tried for 3 years and finally gave up on hunting one there!!! Anza Jacobs.Anyway in my opinion I'm getting the hunt for price of management bull so if I never get ivory I'll have a great experience. Is there storage fees for the supposedly importable ivory? | |||
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| One of Us |
Not sure how you could blame his wife. This will be my 4th hunt with Stephen, I guess with the roll over hunts from 2020, his lease was extended one year because of that and the uncertainty of getting the lease for the next 5 years, all this has created a scheduling nightmare, especially with his elephant. He only gets 4 or 5 non-trophy bull tags per year. Hope this helps you understand. | |||
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| One of Us |
I thought the 2014 ban was for Tanzania and Zimbabwe. Has there ever been a ban on RSA, Botts or Namibia ivory? "If you are not working to protect hunting, then you are working to destroy it". Fred Bear | |||
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| One of Us |
The last permit that I am aware of was in 2017 for a Namibia elephant. It was right after the ban was lifted and before the soft-hold began. USFW has been reaching out to us and many others over the last few weeks to get updated information for many of the permits that are under review. This is due to the fact that some details may have been lost when they moved to their new ePermit system. SSI has ensured that all elephant permits that we are handling are up to date so that they can be processed as quickly as possible. | |||
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| One of Us |
As far as I'm aware, the legal saga goes about like this. In 2016 USFWS placed in the Federal Register new criteria for approval of ivory on a "case by case basis". The case-by-case basis that would garner an approval has yet to be tested as of this date. Insert Trump saga. Trump tweeted his outrage and offense about elephant hunting and there was an on-again, off-again claim that it would/would not be allowed. It chilled USFWS who decided to avoid getting fired by Trump by doing nothing, rather than something that could offend his yes/no/maybe tweets. USFWS allowed ivory import permits to accumulate, unreviewed, in direct violation of their timeline to review estimates which were either 45 days or 60 days to make a determination yes/no. (experts can clarify the exact USFWS promised review timelines) Fast forward to Conservation Force as counsel, representing the nation of Namibia and about 16 other co-plaintiffs, sued USFWS in Federal Court demanding that USFWS follow the law and review the permit back log and disposition the "Case by case" permit import requests. Conservation Force prevailed and the USFWS stated they would start with the named plaintiffs, then Namibian permits, then the rest. What no one knows is if ANY amount of evidence will be sufficient to meet the criteria for a permit approval. What we do know is that VERY, VERY strong evidence will be required. It includes evidence the taking of the elephant was not injurious to the survival of the species, that the funding supported elephant conservation, that the operation funded anti-poaching, research, schools, local indigenous employment, and support for Rural District Counsels, CAMPFIRE, and other entitities. Why this is all very important in my opinion is because there are many operators out there with CITES exportable elephant hunts that are "overselling their wares". If an operator just landed a concession with no data for prior years, or their hyperbole about investment in roads/boreholes/schools/community development cannot be verified, I personallly believe the chances of importation are absolutely Nil. And mind you, there are some very, very big names in the safari world offering very expensive elephant hunts where they just don't have the needed data for the very specific location of the hunt that will be needed to overwhelmingly support an off-take of elephant in the eyes of USFWS. Bottom line, you need to really ask a lot of questions about an elephant hunt to find out if the odds are greater than 0% chance of importation. The very, very best operators with all of this investment, paperwork, and multi-year or multi-decade evidence of support for local numbers, game counts, anti-poaching, may have what is needed for a 50/50 shot at gaining an importation permit. I'd wager 80% of legal the quota on offer today is in the "no way in hell, never going to happen" category. | |||
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One of Us |
Because of the low probability of your ele trophy (including ivory) coming to the USA, would that not make a PAC hunt more practical? A man I know did a PAC hunt knowing he would get no trophies and just took pictures of his game (ele,lepopard, buff,) and never expected to have anything mounted. He says he had a great time. NRA Life Benefactor Member, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center,Android Reloading Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/ | |||
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One of Us |
A PAC hunt is totally different from an “own use” non exportable bull elephant hunt. PAC animals are those that pose a threat to people or property. There is no way you can schedule a problem elephant, buff and leopard hunt. And in every country in Southern Africa that I’m aware of, non residents may accompany a PH but are not allowed in to be the shooter- at least not legally. Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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| One of Us |
What you say…’may’ very well be true — give me another year and I will give you a better idea. But here is the the real problem. The killing of elephants (lion, giraffe, and leopard) has become an emotional & political issue. One hundred percent of Democrats (at least the politicians) are against it and 50% of Republicans as well. When Zinke was going to crack it open…it was Republican influence on Trump that garnered the “horror show” tweet. Science and true conservation strategies BE DAMNED! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| One of Us |
Is there any update on recent elephant imports from Zimbabwe or Botswana, and if so how many and which specific areas did they come from? | |||
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| One of Us |
We have brought in several elephants from Zimbabwe and Namibia since this thread started. I will pull the information of the areas in Zimbabwe that the hunts took place. We have sevearl applications for Botswana that are being reviewed, but USFW is still focused on the back log of Namibia/Zimbabwe permit as those were the most numerous. | |||
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