Ladies and Gentlemen,

I have receievd ths following email message from a person who does not hunt.

This is a good opportunity for us to state our opinions without insulting the person who is asking the question.

I get many questions like these, and I would like to know what you all think.

The more objective we are in our answer, the better chance we have of making non-hunters accept why we hunt..

"...Hello Saeed!
I just found your website http://www.accuratereloading.com/ through a google
search. My attention was focused on the following link:
http://www.accuratereloading.com/dogcat.html
Here you can see - i did not read the text, i just scrolled down the whole
page - some people, who are in some way obviously involved in your website.
They are on a Safari in Zimbabwe. I have to repeat: I did not read the text
(except some passages like "I shoot and the fun begins."). I scrolled down
the page, only to see the photos on it. The people on the photos all pose
behind the animals they have just shot to death, always with a seemingly
satisfied grin on their face.
I have one question: What is the fascination of travelling through Africa
for weeks, just to shoot animals and to pose with the dead bodies on a
photo?
It's not that i condemn this, I just like to know what's so great about
that, the so called "Safari".
Kindest regards, R. Albrecht..."

Sir/Madam.

Please, take the time to read the text. The passion for hunting, the emotion involved, is often captured better there - than in a photograph.

The photographs can only ever show the culmination of the the hunt, that which is possibly only 1% of the total experience.

Rgds IanF

Dear Sir/Madam Albrecht,

Mankind was put in charge of all the animals on Earth by the good Lord.

Hunting is one of man's ways to control the numbers of animals on Earth. It is necessary to manage and conserve the resources available to both man and beast in order to secure sustainability of habitat and species for both.

Overpopulated animal numbers are destructive not only to the habitat, but also to the species itself as these animals cannot plan and manage their own ways and means to secure their future.
That is man's function and duty in the whole setup.

Drought, fire and beasts of prey plus many more all do their part in this whole process. Hunting is just a small part of it all and yet in an ever growing demand for land it is the most important part where mankind can fulfil it's task to conserve the animals dwelling on Earth!

If you read the Bible by looking at the pictures you'd think it was mostly about sacrifice rather than a way of life.

The same is true about hunting. The pictures are simply to help one remember the events. rather than the true culmination of the hunt.

Many of my most memorable hunts were exactly that: a hunt with no shot taken.

Hunting is a way to participate in nature, rather than simply observing it.

Dear sir/ madam.

The final part of the hunt, the taking of the animals life, is what so many non hunting people object to. And because this part is taken out of context and therefore focused on, is obviosly makes non hunting folk question a hunters behaviour.
But if we are to put it back into context and see that the hunting of game animals is a combinaton of events, such as being in the wilds, using a 4 x 4 to get into remote areas, camping, fishing, bush walking and acting as a predator, which is perfectly natural for man to do so, maybe then the taking of the animals life is not the entire focus of what hunting is about.

I personaly find hunting as a great outdoor pastime,that has been past down to me from my father. Some of my most cherrished memories are of times spent together in remote places whilst out hunting.

Going on safari to a far off place like Africa to hunt exotic and often dangerous game is to hunters what climbing Mt Everest must feel like for mountain climbers. (although we are probably nowhere close to that fit).
An exiting and often long awaited adventure with much anticipation, hard work and preperation awaits those who choose the sport of hunting in Africa!

If one is to compare hunting to the much more accepted sport of fishing, you would notice that the main diffrence is the tools that are used (fishing rods and hooks, instead of Rifles and bullets, land as opposed to water), otherwise it is hardly different at all. Hunters are generally more selective than fishermen. (I am certainly NOT opposed to fishing).They can select between mature old males and young or females.

All that hunters crave is the adventure, unfortunetly for the game animal is does mean the taking of its life, but to not do so would be like watching a great movie but then walking out 10 minutes from the end and missing the climatic ending.
.
On a lighter note:
Hunting may not be for every one, but is our most natural of intincts along with mating, and we all know how much fun that is!!

These are my views on hunting, not eveyone will agree with my opinions, but I am certainly proud to be a hunter!

YOU DO NOT ANSWER THEM !

This person is an Anti! take note of the word play and choice.
There is no way form or manner in which you can satisfy their requests. They will not change their view no matter what arguement you put forth, what is more they have a tendency to take whatever arguements you give, dissect them and actually use selective parts thereoff against you.

Dear Sir/Madam,

I'm a new member of AR's forums and have never been to Africa but will try to answer your question from my prospective.

By vocation I'm a farmer, by advocation a hunter. The same could be said of my father and his father before him. At one time this was the common way most people provided for their families. Today most of the population is free from these labors to pursue other ways of supporting their families. However they still rely on someone for basic food production. I really see alot of similarities between hunting and farming. While the hunter might not directly involved in the production he/she is definitely the harvester. Indirectly the hunter is involved with the "production" of game through the funds they provide for conservation. Hunters also encourage governments to implement policies that promote conservation.

Many people have a problem with hunting because it involves the death of an animal. Many hunters feel a sense of sadness at the moment of the kill and this is what separates Man from animals. I'll guarentee my cat feels no sadness when the mouse she's toying with expires. When I take a steer that I've raised for 18 months to the butcher I also feel melancholy. I feel being involved with the harvest of the food that ends up on the plate adds to the repect I have for it. If you have ever eaten a tomato you have grown in your garden you know it's different then the tomato from the store. The feeling is multiplied with a steak bought in a store and one I've helped produce.

Now as far as African hunting goes it is the pinnacle of the hunting experience in most hunters eyes. The huge area with low population, the great diversity of wildlife. It's exotic, romantic and maybe a little dangerous! Many of us have grownup reading stories of the famous hunters exploits in the Dark Continent. The animals are ones I've only seen in books and zoos or on TV.

Now about the photos. Most hunters have likely spent years dreaming of these trips. Most live normal "boring" lives. The scene you see is the culmination much dreaming, planning, preparation and expense. You mentioned that you didn't read the stories, please do. You see that things don't always go as planned. Hunting is very unpreditable, and results are not guaranteed. At the time of the photo the hunter has just experienced a myriad of emotions, some conflicting. The result however, is the one that hunter put much effort in achieving. I'd hope that would be easy for a non-hunter to understand.

Sam

I am a hunter by choice. I enjoy all of natures wonders. Being an animal requiring food for energy, man is at the top of the food chain. Just because someone else does the killing does not change that fact. In modern man, the primal instinct is being changed, it is evolving away from primary responsibility for ones self and ones family to a more social man. Many of us still feel that primal hunting instinct and revel in the hunt as well as the kill. We see the same emotional response from boxers, soccor players as well as soldiers that defend us. The hunt itself is the experience with the kill being secondary. The "trophy" shot is just a statement of a job well done. I think it is the same feeling that my daughter had when she mastered her back hand spring to get on the cheer squad. It is probably the same feeling an athlete feels when he wins. Do they lament the fact that others failed and some miserably so? No, one revels in the personal victory or the part played in that victory. Hunting is something you either get or not, like higher forms of math. To those that don't get it, we are lost to them. For those that get it, we call them "Brothers of the Hunt".

I agree with ALF. The question was not asked truthfully or in the spirit of actually seeking an anwer. It is just the opening gambit in an attempt at brow beating "the opposition".

LD

PS One thing I have been curious about off and on over the years:
What do anti's do for fun?

1.) Is the natural thing to do
2.) Go once to a abatoir and go once hunting then you know why!


Enjoy your meat

quote:

Originally posted by freischuetz:
1.) Is the natural thing to do
2.) Go once to a abatoir and go once hunting then you know why!

Well said.

Lawful sport hunting is good for the planet.
It is supported in Biblical Scripture.
It is the most effective way to make sure these animals DON'T go extinct.
How, by causing huge sums of money to be generated that finance the over seeing of these aniamls being hunted.
Habitat and veterinary study by scientists, and improved habitat "health" and animal health as a result, and game rangers salaries to reduce poaching which is a TERRIBLE threat to game are just some of what is paid for by hunters money.

For the person doing the hunting, the process, even the waiting period before the hunting starts, (months quite often) is EXHILERATING! There is being "in with nature", challenge, adventure, danger and some even say it's a trip "back in time". It's doing what President T. Roosevelt did, and so many other great people.

There is nothing like it.....

Since not everyone is a Christian, perhaps the support from the scriptures would not be universally accepted. I would choose to focus instead upon our species long heritage of being predators. To some, it might seem silly and even senseless for us to kill a wild animal. This is because they have come to be apart from the natural order of things and not a part of that order.

Our species began as gatherers of whatever we could gather. We began to advance toward civilization when we mastered primitive weapons and could gather a large amount of food in one act, that of killing an animal. We have the equipment to be predators. Our eyes are on the front of our heads, we have canine teeth (plant eaters usually lack them), and we walk upright, leaving our hands free to use weapons. While it is true that our weaponry is much advanced over that of primitive men, we still have in our genetic makeup the predisposition to be hunters. Probably the first human profession would have been "hunter." Some men were better at it than others, so they had special status in their group or tribe.

Modern man is a meat eater. Whether a cow or sheep is slaughtered in a slaughterhouse and is packaged in plastic on a styrofoam tray, or a deer is killed by a hunter's rifle, an animal dies that man may eat. It has always been this way. In nature, the predators eat their prey. I suppose also that there have always been those who did the killing and those who did not. All in the tribe would eat anyway. It makes no difference whether you personally kill an animal. If you eat meat or wear leather products, etc., you are responsible for animals dying.

During my last trip to Africa, I was again amazed at how fast the word gets around that someone has killed an animal. It seems that shortly after the animal dies, villagers appear on the scene. They wade into the fray, flashing knives or axes and within a very short period of time, nothing but a bloody spot remains. Nothing went to waste from any animal I killed. Villagers went out of their way to thank me for the blessing of food I had bestowed upon them. That I brought horns or hides home to remember my hunt by is immaterial to those natives. If you want more on this, check out JudgeG's story about the elephant hunt he was on. His writing is much superior to mine.

I hope that my thoughts on this subject have been of some help in understanding why we hunt, even though we probably don't need to do so anymore, just for food. Some of us need to be a part of the outdoors. We are not happy with living in a high rise and getting our food exclusively from supermarkets. We prefer to participate in our own sustennence, rather than having someone else do it for us, and we don't mind getting our hands dirty.

My doctor says that eating wild game meat is much better for me than is eating fatty beef such as that you buy in Food Lion. Wild game meat is also not laced with a witch's brew of pesticides and hormones. At least the animal I am eating had a chance and was not cooped up in some feed lot for all of its life.

OK. Was that enough for you?
G

I would reccomend Mr / Mrs R Albrecht to read the following thread :
https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&f=1411043&m=13210672

Human nature and its implication on hunting - aswell as hunting and its implication on human nature - was described there at its best ... I would highly reccomend a special & careful read on what was posted either by nickudu and by mrlexma - AR greatest philosophers !!!

*************************************************************

It's not that I condemn this, I just like to know what's so great about
that, the so called "Safari".
Kindest regards, R. Albrecht..."

**************************************************************

Dear, R. Albrecht

Safari is a form of sport hunting engaged in by people who do it for amusement, entertainment, or challenge. For them it is an enjoyable activity. The photo is a record of the event to be used for future recollection of the activity. It is as simple as that.

I am one of those people. We call ourselves hunters. There is nothing you can say or do that will change the fact that I am a hunter. If you are opposed to sport hunting there is nothing that I can say or do that will change your mind. You can read this forum from now on and you will see nothing to convince you to change your mind.

This is a forum for people who enjoy hunting and talking about hunting. If you believe that animals have a "body" or a face, or mothers and fathers, or feelings, then you are wasting our time here. If you are not a hunter you are wasting your time here. There is plenty of space on this planet for people who have opposing ideas. We can live in this society as neighbors and respect one another’s beliefs. Just don’t try and change mine.

I am with Alf, I don' think the spirit behind the inquiry was honest.

I have a coworker that was anti-hunting when I first started working here, and although she would never hunt herself she no longer sees it as "bad" or "evil". But we discussed it on many occasions and she is an intelligent person that was genuinely interested in what hunting was and some of the thought behind it. She was able through sound reasoning to change her viewpoint.

Face to face is the only way to answer these questions, there is no other way to know if the person actually wants to discuss it or just argue it. big difference in the thought process behind the conversation.

Red

Historically, humans survived a long time by gathering and hunting, and there are still some tribes that do. I do not know if there is such thing as a "hunting gene", but as many have already said, most hunters feel a drive or passion for hunting as something instinctive and not rational. And, like a math or music gift, it is either there or not. This instinct is surely a relic from past times when people did not "hunt" for their protein in supermarkets and when hunters were important in their respective societies as food producers.

Many people think that instinctive irrational drives are somewhat sub-human, but the best way to explain the hunting drive to a non hunter is via the sex-drive, which practically every human being has. Most people do not have sex to reproduce themselves and cannot avoid making love more frequently than necessary to have 2 or 3 children in life. This is a direct analogy to hunting for pleasure and not necessarily for meat. So imagine someone taking a picture of you right after making love to a beautiful woman (if you are male, or viceversa if you are female): I bet you would be smiling too!!!

It is not the picture which is important. It is the thing it represents: The trouble one had to save money to go, the difficulties endured to reach far away places no-one would go to if not for hunting, the long tiring walks in the tropical heat, the victory over an animal in its own ground, the feeling of being in wild nature, the victory over oneself in physical and mental terms, the domination of primeval fear and sometimes sheer panic, etc.

It is like understanding why it is so important that perfectly rational people try to put a ball into a goal, bat a home-run, climb a mountain, put a little ball into 18 golf holes, etc.

That is the pleasure part. As for the practical aspects: Hunting is legal (as is lovemaking for pleasure, even if some people object to this out of supra-legal considerations, like in the case of hunting...). Hunting also serves the economic function of efficiently assigning a value to wild animals, an important consideration if such animals are going to survive, because if a cow is more valuable than a lion, the lion will disappear.

So it is a welcome fact that some of us still have this arcaic hunting instinct that forces us into spending lots of money in order to hunt animals, with the additional consequence that by hunting animals we insure that they survive. This fact seems at first contradictory, but it is no other than the old economic law of supply and demand...

I could write for hours about this, but if you are really interested in pursuing the topic I can urge you to read Ortega y Gasset, a well known Spanish philosopher, who described best what goes on inside a hunter´s head. In Spanish the book is called "La Caza y los Toros". I do not know the name of this book in English, but some one here will certainly know.

Regards, Antonio

ALF is dead right. Tell this ignoramus to go screw himself (or herself).

Ortega Y Gasset's book is called Meditations on hunting.
Dago red is correct the only way to answer these people is face to face to determine their true intent.
Otherwise follow ALF's advice and ignore them.

Alf and Kino:

Noblesse Oblige...

Although you are probably right, even if this person is an "Anti", I think we should try to answer his question on the first salvo. If there is not at least an acknowledgement on his/her side, then we can safely ignore him/her. It will be interesting anyhow to read the different responses and keep it as a reference for future enquiries...

By arguing in a rational and non-insultative manner, I have so far been able to turn some "Antis" opinions from outright opposition to hunting into something like "I still do not like the idea of hunting, but I can see what you mean and fell" kind of attitude.

Antonio

i didnt read this thread except saeeds first post:

I dont find any pleasure in killing animals, when faced with a life or death situation itsw a great sense of relief to kill but not enjoyable, if I make a difficult shot, i get the satisfaction that all the time I spent with my dad at the range paid off.

For me its an instinctive thing I have hunted or wanted to hunt since I was a kid, like eating or sex its instinctive, i was born to hunt, it wasnt a choice for some holiday like scuba diving. killing is the least satifying part of the hunt however if I just took a picture instead that primal need wouldnt be fufilled. this is a topic for shrinks not bunny huggers as far as i'm concerned

This is a complicated subject. No correct answer can be given. Being a hunter, I can state for a fact, that game still exists on many parts of the world, thanks to conservation projects supported in no small part with funds generated by legal hunting and related activities.

Antonio,
Well said. Let us discuss the topic with logic and reason. If Saeed thought enough of the person to bring them forth, then perhaps they may be the type person that understands logic, reason and other peoples opinions.

Another reply for Sir/Madam:

Traveling for weeks in Africa just to pose behind dead animals mis-states the object of hunting. Each hunter has his own special reasons, as does each birder, jet-setter, stamp collector, world surfer, etc. What seems wasted time and money to one person is exactly what makes another person feel fully alive.

Mine would be to have memories (and as many as possible) in photo form to review the trip waiting up to a year to fully enjoy the animals in my home. Hunting leaves only a fragmentary experience due to the hustle and bustle of the process, made more complete each time and in every approach I take to rehearse and re-enjoy everything that happened years after the short time frame in which I accumulated that which I'm re-enjoying. (Sorry for the clumsy language.)

Beyond pictures I remember the people, how different game animals taste after gourmet treatment, the feel and smells, sunrise, sunset, flowers, birds, the land,... In other words, there's a whole "package" to enjoy but what we can do online is show-and-tell a few pictures and try to put in writing what our trip(s) were like.

Hope this satisfies you curiousity somewhat.

Barry Nagel, a mission kid who grew up with no guns

reading members responses makes me proud of my hunting hertiage

Alf and Interboat hit the nail on the head. This person does not want an answer.

Perry

A quote from the authoress of "Out of Africa"--" I must humbly apologize to those hunters whose delight in the chase I failed to understand. There is nothing in the world to equal it" Karen Blixen (Izak Dinesen). Sgraves155

Saeed //

The answer is really quite simple..

Just tell this CHAP to keep visiting your esteeemed AR AFRICA hunting forum and he will be enlightened on a daily basis as to the thrill of the hunt and meeting new people and generally having a BLAST in Africa.

Maybe ALSO tell him it is all in the eyes of the beholder, he should take a trip over and get first hand experience as he might think we are collectively a (bunch of nutters) wasting our time on the computer all day when in reality we are fanatical outdoor and wildlife hunting conservationists

Cheers, Peter

Dear Sir or Madam,

I have been a hunter nearly all my life. Those years before I was old enough to carry a gun (or bow) I delighted in the arrival home of my older brothers or uncles following a hunt. In those days I spent more time "among nature" than any where else. I learned all the names and charicteristics of all the birds and animals in the area by observation - hours and hours of observation - which fascinated me as much then as it does today. I spent the rest of my time studying any available book on those animals and birds found elsewhere. My fasination with game goes far beyond killing. It is more the intrigue of not just BEING in the right place at the right time but KNOWING where the right place to be is. This feeling is not something that one person can tell another about, it is something that must be experienced. Even so, some do not receive the same satisfaction from that experience just as some do not enjoy a cricket match! For those of us who do however, it is a feeling that does bring joy when successful the same as any successful venture does to any person. It is not joy at having killed the animal, that death is the hardest part to explain. Perhaps it can't be verbalized, but it can be felt. Go anywhere in the world and you will find that hunting has more to do with the preservation of animals - both game and non-game species - than any other single practice. Wildlife populations are preserved for hunting and hunting pays the bills to perserve them. It is a classic chicken or egg proposition but one thing is for sure, if it weren't for the money generated by hunting there would not be the animals or habitat we enjoy today. Millions of acres are set asside for wildlife with hunter's monies and because money can be made from hunting. Most of those lands would be in uses that do not support wildlife populations otherwise. I hope I've done the practice justice.

Sincerely, Trevor's oupa