WHat are the odds of this happening?

HOYT Picture of the Week!

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
WHat are the odds of this happening?

HOYT Picture of the Week!

Anne!
The odds are 100% on a South Afrucan canned hunt.

465H&H

metaltiger....I've got no issue with you spreading the word, but quit hi-jacking people's threads to do it. This is getting rediculous.
Canuck

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
WHat are the odds of this happening?

HOYT Picture of the Week!

Anne!


The odds are 100% on a South Afrucan canned hunt.

465H&H

That was my first though too. Those are two damned nice cats. I must admit I do not know THAT much about lion behavior, but would two big males like that actually be living within miles of each other and not having some territory issues?

Getting back on-topic, I'd question quite a few things about this 'hunt'. How many acres were actually involved. Can't help to think that the shooters had a deep checkbook and these lions were kennel raised like cocker spaniels.

thats what the above guys meant by canned hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by Pauly3511:
thats what the above guys meant by canned hunt.

All Lion hunts in RSA are suspect! Most are caged lions raised in pins, and released when someone comes along with enough money to buy the pets! These may be completely legit, but I doubt it. The use of radios here and as soon as one kills, suddenly the other is spotted only a couple miles away, and the hunters are summoned to the next shooting station, like a sporting clays event! Truth be known, the hunters may not even be aware they have been sold a pin raised lion, with a perfect hair-do. Look at that picture, and tell me where you would find two lions of that quality, within a couple miles of each other, except in a zoo!

I can't say if these were canned lions but I can say male lions do form coalitions and live/hunt together. Sometimes a pair, sometimes more.

I've seen several pairs of lions in RSA, Botswana and Kenya. In Botswana, I also saw the pride of lions that is 30+ strong (elephant hunters). There were at least 5 male, fully maned lions in the pride. Here is a picture of a portion of that large pride on an elephant kill. There is only one male with at least 14 females. The other males had been eating all night and were passed out nearby with fully stuffed, bloated bellies. http://www.pbase.com/cjw/image/51439136

if these lions were several miles apart, they obviously weren't hunting together and judging from the size of their perfectly coifed manes they are both dominant males-ergo, pen raised and released.also, he states that they were in a blind since 5:30 and the lion showed up at 9:30. judging from the terrain, there were in an arid area, probably the Karoo or the Kalahari. it would be pretty unusual for males to be out hunting or feeding at that time of day.

Canned, but what the hell! I would shoot one. Make four of five! They will die from some thing.

September will bring days 44 thru 56 for me looking for a big male lion in Africa. But every day has been in the wild and enjoyable.

No mystery here. They were probably raised in the same compound and released at the same time.

interesting that this particular hunt is condemmed and ridiculed and a similar hunt recently reported on AR was praised?

New SCI archery record huh? Good on SCI

Last year in Tanzania, Formerly Texas Hunter and I were in camp with a father and son from Dallas that were both hunting lion. Both shot large male lions on the same morning (about day 6 or 7 of their hunt as I recall). I thought that was quite remarkable given this was completely open and free range.

The cats are impressive but the other comments apply. I posted similar thoughts on the Bowsite forum. I'm sure the hunters were aware of the details. I believe they have to sign a form acknowledging the hunt particulars.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Last year in Tanzania, Formerly Texas Hunter and I were in camp with a father and son from Dallas that were both hunting lion. Both shot large male lions on the same morning (about day 6 or 7 of their hunt as I recall). I thought that was quite remarkable given this was completely open and free range.

It is not unusual to see two large satilite males traveling together, and are usually brothers. However, it is not usual to see them two miles apart,in RSA, hunting the same area, or as well groomed as those two, unless they are in the same pin! In the wild it is very uncommon, to see lions of this size, without scars from fighting, and these two look like thay just popped out of a beauty parlor! I would guess, the second one was not released till the first one was killed, then the radio got hot!

They may be wild lions, but unless they are from one of the private ranches that backs up to Kruger,or one of the fenceles borders, where there are no fences around the park, then they are behind electric, or otherwise secure fence, by law, in RSA. Still, the size of the property may be very large, in the millions of acres, but may still be hand fed growing up. As I said before, all Lion hunts in RSA are suspect, with good reason,IMO!

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:
interesting that this particular hunt is condemmed and ridiculed and a similar hunt recently reported on AR was praised?

New SCI archery record huh? Good on SCI

I was thinking the same thing. An Outfitter recently posted a RSA Hunt with a Lion that also looked like it just came from a zoo and all the AR experts told him great hunt!

Whom said the hunters weren't aware of hunting penned lions? Could be the lions weren't reared animals but doubtfull.
That doesn't mean this father and son duo needs to justify themselves to anyone here for hunting like that...if indeed they did. Somehow I think they know the only justification they need is to themselves.
At the very least as gentlemen we should congradulate a father and son whom are buddies enough to trapse off to Africa together in pursuit of adventure!

LOL

I'm not going to comment on fighting scars or lack of them , but I do have a question about lion behavior. I thought that in some parts of Africa, the prides tend to be small (3-7 females) and have only a single male lion. In other parts of Africa prides tend to be large (8-15 females or more) and have two or three full grown males; often brothers but also single males that joined up after being kicked out of their pride. These joined males "wait in the wings" while growing to full size and able to try to take a pride from it's dominant males. Is this incorrect?

[/QUOTE]
I was thinking the same thing. An Outfitter recently posted a RSA Hunt with a Lion that also looked like it just came from a zoo and all the AR experts told him great hunt![/QUOTE]

Not everyone gave praise.

It is not always a cut and dry method of telling if a lion is canned or not by the scars. Here is a pic of a Botswana Kalahari lion which has very few scars in a very wild area.

I am however not saying these were not canned, the odds are against them that the lions were canned. The picture of the 2 lions is not of sufficient quality to zoom in enough to get a good look at the face.

decnt scar under the right eye, couple small scrathes on the nose, and its hard to see any others by his position but yeah he looks pretty clean.

CMcDermott, I think what you said is correct. I have seen small groups of subadult male lions on their own. I found this that gives a little more info:

Lion prides are fission-fusion societies; pride members come and go and are rarely all together at once. There can be anywhere from 2 to 40 lions in a pride. In Kruger and Serengeti National Parks, pride size was on average 13 lions. The average composition of these prides was 1.7 adult males, 4.5 adult females, 3.8 subadults, and 2.8 juveniles. (Estes, 1993; Packer and Pusey, 2001)

The resident males of a pride are immigrants that have forcefully gained control of the pride from the previous male members. In order to successfully take over a pride, males form coalitions, usually consisting of brothers. Adolescent males leave their natal pride when their fathers (or the new male leaders of the pride) begin to view them as competition at about 2.5 years. These males lead nomadic lives for two to three years, then form a coalition and seek a pride to take over. Male coalitions of 2 tend to rule a pride for no more than two and a half years, long enough for one set of cubs to be reared. Coalitions of three and four tend to rule a pride for longer than 3 years. Coalitions of more than four are rare, most likely because large coalitions are difficult to keep together. (Estes, 1993; Packer, Scheel, and Pusey, 1990)
http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/inf...on/Panthera_leo.html

In MalaMala (next to Krueger) there was a coalition of 4 males, the Split Rock group. Two died in the past (not sure when) and the two remaining ones kept control of the pride. A third one died in July 06. Here is a cyberdiary of these two lions for the year 2006 - before the death and after. http://www.malamala.tv/LION_split06.htm. 2007 is there as well. Very interesting.