I have been hunting only with reloads for so many years, and I would not even consider using factory ammo - they don't make it for my rifles

There is no factory in existence that can make ammo as good as my reloads

I feel the same way. I am far more certain about/confident in the quality of my reloads than I am about something coming off an assembly line.

quote:

Originally posted by Wink:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I`ve had the primer go off on empty round about half a dozen times so far.I was lucky to have the state of mind to stop and see what happen.I remember two times when I did not.This was when I first started stuffing the mag box and shooting 4+1 instead of 3+1 out of my 308.The rifle at times would not feed the first round out of the 4 round mag.When I pulled the trigger on a round I forgot to primer I thought it was a misfeed,ejected and loaded another and pulled the trigger.I was lucky it was a primerless round instead of a powderless round.

You are indeed lucky: loading the magazine with empty cases with bullets seated, putting primerless rounds in the magazine. Are these the practices what prompted you to wear a football helmet when shooting?

What can I say-you are from France.You are lucky you own a rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
This thread would certainly not be a ringing endorsement of reloading for someone considering the possibility of reloading. Fact is, you cannot be too careful in reloading. Sort of like the old saying, "measure twice, cut once". You just have to be patient, alert and careful when you are reloading realizing that you are dealing with explosives.

Just finished 'smithing on a 338 Lapua last week, was shooting it at Tomball gun range Sunday afternoon. Buddy Gene asks me "am I confident in my work?"

I said I hope so, that is a lot of powder just under my face! All was well though, rifle was OK.

I also have a Weatherby stock someone nailed to the wall of my camphouse. It looks just like the one Keith posted, except it's wood, not synthetic. It was there when I got the place, wondered about the Kaboom that caused it.

Lane,

My DR does not accept many different makes of ammo in fact I will whittle "many" down to two manufacturers: Kynoch (NOT Kynamco) and WR.

I don't think Norma produces NE ammo anyway nor would I be interested even if it does.

Even the above 2 brands present seating problems and I can confirm that no one box of 5 rounds will produce 5 rounds that will each drop in with a "plonk" - I guarantee that at least one round will come short and will eventually seat if I open/eject/close several times.

Kynamco is a dead loss as the proportions are the other way round: 1 seats and 4 are seriously proud to the point that I have to first "turn" the shell down with fine emery paper before I make any attempt at seating them.

The drama comes on stage when one of these "non-seating" rounds is a little prouder than others and jams tight in the breech, requiring a helping nudge from the opposite end to dislodge it.

I tried forcing once and snapped the main ejector rod in the process.

I am therefore obliged to "preform" all my ammo in this way to ensure I have no unwanted/unpleasant surprises out in the field.

Now you know why I am reluctant to use reloaded ammo from external sources (you also should be aware that reloading is 'verboten' in this neck of the woods).

I don't think Saeed has any 75 year old DR that uses reloaded/hand-loaded ammo.

P.S.: I have had no complaints regarding the performance of the above makes from any of the recipients. I'm alive and they are all dead.

quote:

Now you know why I am reluctant to use reloaded ammo from external sources (you also should be aware that reloading is 'verboten' in this neck of the woods).

I don't think Saeed has any 75 year old DR that uses reloaded/hand-loaded ammo.

But if Saeed did...he would.

I certainly would especially if I had a picky chamber like yours. I would just tailor my dies until such did not happpen and tailor the load to regulate with a proper pressure load...voila...problem solved.

But I hear you on the reloading issue in TZ.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Wink:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I`ve had the primer go off on empty round about half a dozen times so far.I was lucky to have the state of mind to stop and see what happen.I remember two times when I did not.This was when I first started stuffing the mag box and shooting 4+1 instead of 3+1 out of my 308.The rifle at times would not feed the first round out of the 4 round mag.When I pulled the trigger on a round I forgot to primer I thought it was a misfeed,ejected and loaded another and pulled the trigger.I was lucky it was a primerless round instead of a powderless round.

You are indeed lucky: loading the magazine with empty cases with bullets seated, putting primerless rounds in the magazine. Are these the practices what prompted you to wear a football helmet when shooting?

What can I say-you are from France.You are lucky you own a rifle.

Actually with the practices you mention above, you're the lucky one. Just for your information, France has MUCH less restrictive gun laws than Canada.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Wink:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I`ve had the primer go off on empty round about half a dozen times so far.I was lucky to have the state of mind to stop and see what happen.I remember two times when I did not.This was when I first started stuffing the mag box and shooting 4+1 instead of 3+1 out of my 308.The rifle at times would not feed the first round out of the 4 round mag.When I pulled the trigger on a round I forgot to primer I thought it was a misfeed,ejected and loaded another and pulled the trigger.I was lucky it was a primerless round instead of a powderless round.

You are indeed lucky: loading the magazine with empty cases with bullets seated, putting primerless rounds in the magazine. Are these the practices what prompted you to wear a football helmet when shooting?

What can I say-you are from France.You are lucky you own a rifle.

Actually with the practices you mention above, you're the lucky one. Just for your information, France has MUCH less restrictive gun laws than Canada.

You would probably make a better French citizen than a US citizen.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:
The theory of a wasp trudging 24/26 inches to deposit a blob of mud in the breech and having to reverse the same distance on a building site that is constantly on the move needs to be discarded.

There is no excluding the possibility of having picked up some debris while cycling the bolt to chamber the round.

Fugo, the wasps don’t travel the whole barrel, even 10 or 12 inches and forming a block is all it takes. The release of the pressure goes to the weakest point in the firearm to escape. That happens to be at the breech end of the barrel. The now empty cartridge case is right where this rifle came apart.

quote:

It has already been confirmed that the ammo was standard factory so the theory of a "super-charged" reload is also to be discarded though it might just be possible to attribute this to a "rogue" round.

If there was an existent head-spacing problem it would have been "felt" beforehand from prior shots fired (sticking bolt).

A factory round has been known to cause problems before! Factory is loaded completely on gang presses, and a powder measure may dump a partial charge, and an over charge in the next round. It has happened before.

One more thing! I have been shooting Norma ammo, and reloading with Norma components for many years, and I have never seen a box of Norma factory ammo that was glued shut from the factory. Unless this is something new, which it may be, because it has been several years since I’ve bought a box of 375 H&H factory ammo.

My bet is still on the BUG, or one of the Sako rifles that got through proof with metallurgy problems !
........................................................................

The "glued" shut box had nothing to do with the blow up in this thread, nor was it specified as Norma ammo, it was Remington. That was from Dugga Boye's post.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Wink:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I`ve had the primer go off on empty round about half a dozen times so far.I was lucky to have the state of mind to stop and see what happen.I remember two times when I did not.This was when I first started stuffing the mag box and shooting 4+1 instead of 3+1 out of my 308.The rifle at times would not feed the first round out of the 4 round mag.When I pulled the trigger on a round I forgot to primer I thought it was a misfeed,ejected and loaded another and pulled the trigger.I was lucky it was a primerless round instead of a powderless round.

You are indeed lucky: loading the magazine with empty cases with bullets seated, putting primerless rounds in the magazine. Are these the practices what prompted you to wear a football helmet when shooting?

What can I say-you are from France.You are lucky you own a rifle.

Actually with the practices you mention above, you're the lucky one. Just for your information, France has MUCH less restrictive gun laws than Canada.

You would probably make a better French citizen than a US citizen.

As is said, ignorance is correctable, stupid is forever. I like France, the women are beautiful, the food is wonderful, the gun laws are so much better than those in Quebec that it is laughably stupid to compare them, but the taxes are terrible. I'll stick with Texas.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Wink:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I`ve had the primer go off on empty round about half a dozen times so far.I was lucky to have the state of mind to stop and see what happen.I remember two times when I did not.This was when I first started stuffing the mag box and shooting 4+1 instead of 3+1 out of my 308.The rifle at times would not feed the first round out of the 4 round mag.When I pulled the trigger on a round I forgot to primer I thought it was a misfeed,ejected and loaded another and pulled the trigger.I was lucky it was a primerless round instead of a powderless round.

You are indeed lucky: loading the magazine with empty cases with bullets seated, putting primerless rounds in the magazine. Are these the practices what prompted you to wear a football helmet when shooting?

What can I say-you are from France.You are lucky you own a rifle.

Actually with the practices you mention above, you're the lucky one. Just for your information, France has MUCH less restrictive gun laws than Canada.

You would probably make a better French citizen than a US citizen.

As is said, ignorance is correctable, stupid is forever. I like France, the women are beautiful, the food is wonderful, the gun laws are so much better than those in Quebec that it is laughably stupid to compare them, but the taxes are terrible. I'll stick with Texas.

Where do you think Quebec gets all its ideas?

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Where do you think Quebec gets all its ideas?

From England!

Well I am sorry to hear of this accident,sure am glad that the shooter is still here with us in one piece,this has been a very informative thread,I bet this discussion will make people more careful shooting & reloading,I know I will be thinking about this for awhile,easy to get complacent after awhile.

But the last few posts made me laugh so much that..........!outstanding just bloody outstanding

The amazing part of all this is the fact that we actually tried, on purpose, to blow up 3 rifles.

We filled up the cases with very fast pistol powder - HP38 in this instance.

Out of the three rifles we tried, only one would have cause an injury to the shooter.

One rifle - a BRNO 550 in 308 Winchester - we actually had to shoot TWICE to cause some damage to it.

So this gets me thinking.

How much pressure do these rounds that blow up generate?

Saeed,

Perhaps this begs a question?

Have you another rifle to destroy? It might be very informative to see if a mud ball can rupture an action if it is located in the throat area, using just factory ammo. I'm pretty sure a dud round ( of which there is no mention of in this instance) would do it. I have seen the results of a 6PPC with the cleaning rod ( or bore sighter, the details are not clear) left in it. That was fatal to the shooter, btw.

I will have to look in the safe and see if there is a suitable candidate I possess. I'm giving in to my inner urge to tinker....

quote:

Originally posted by cow-trader:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by mustbhuntn:
A good example of today's society. Don't even know what happened and ready to sue.

I am sorry for your accident but dam...accept some responsibility for your own safety and well being. It's hunting...things can happen...doesn't mean someone is liable.

+1

Let's assume, hypothetically, that it was not a barrel obstruction or a reloading problem, would I be looking for someone to sue . . . you are damn right I would. Call me a corrupted product of the American society if you want, but guns and ammunition are manufactured not to explode. If there was a problem with the gun or the ammunition, I was injured and had my hunt ruined, those are exactly the types of situations that the courts are intended to address.

Should follow your own advice and not be so quick to pass judgment. No one here knows anything more about the situation than the original poster posted and some are prepared to attribute it to a lack of personal responsibility. Gimme a break.

Give me a break! The chances of a Sako loaded with factory Norma ammo exploding without a barrel obstruction are exquisitively slim.

How about figure out beyond a shadow o a doubt what happened and if it was manufacturer negligence/error...by all means have at your suit!

But dam...just saying...[/QUOTE]


Several years ago I heard they had problems with a short mag model in stainless coming apart. The barrel just split wide open. A total explosion makes me thing of a blockage, it does't have to be much to cause a problem. I am thinking Sako took a beating over the other problem,I do have a friend who had a short mag that just would not shoot at the time this was going on. I would think they are real carefull about what leaves the shop now. Nothing is impossible.

JD

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Wink:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I`ve had the primer go off on empty round about half a dozen times so far.I was lucky to have the state of mind to stop and see what happen.I remember two times when I did not.This was when I first started stuffing the mag box and shooting 4+1 instead of 3+1 out of my 308.The rifle at times would not feed the first round out of the 4 round mag.When I pulled the trigger on a round I forgot to primer I thought it was a misfeed,ejected and loaded another and pulled the trigger.I was lucky it was a primerless round instead of a powderless round.

You are indeed lucky: loading the magazine with empty cases with bullets seated, putting primerless rounds in the magazine. Are these the practices what prompted you to wear a football helmet when shooting?

What can I say-you are from France.You are lucky you own a rifle.

I'm actually from the United States, just living in France now. But good guns, and good hunters, aren't rare in France at all.

Shootaway

You are the only person I know who has done this
more than once or twice in 30 years.

"I`ve had the primer go off on empty round about half a dozen times so far.I was lucky to have the state of mind to stop and see what happen."

You really should give up shooting.

+1. I cannot believe that such stuff is being posted on AR! I cannot believe that experienced hunters / shooters can do this!

I have edited below post Nige.

quote:

Originally posted by 505G:
Shootaway

You are the only person I know who has done this
more than once or twice in 30 years.

"I`ve had the primer go off on empty round about half a dozen times so far.I was lucky to have the state of mind to stop and see what happen."

You really should give up shooting.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
+1. I cannot believe that such stuff is being posted on AR! I cannot believe that experienced hunters / shooters can do this!

I have edited below post Nige.

quote:

Originally posted by 505G:
Shootaway

You are the only person I know who has done this
more than once or twice in 30 years.

"I`ve had the primer go off on empty round about half a dozen times so far.I was lucky to have the state of mind to stop and see what happen."

You really should give up shooting.

I cannot believe there are people posting on AR who have not seen a rifle in their lives or people who own there first rifle at 60.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I cannot believe there are people posting on AR who have not seen a rifle in their lives or people who own there first rifle at 60.

Some people don't have the opportunity to
shoot or own a rifle / shotgun or whatever
due to where they have lived in the past.

In some countries it is not allowed so
it is only on moving to a new country
that you have the opportunity.


Either way, stop deflecting the focus
from the stupid actions you posted !!!

.

Condolences to BCHunterfsj, and hoping for some closure on the cause debate.
And Keith's 83 y.o. buddy is to be admired for his toughness if not his safety practices. Must have been buck fever.

Wink,
Is that a compliment or an insult from shushaway, you make a better French citizen than US?
You are both, eh?

I am a Francophile, suspect my relatives were among the Norman conquerors who crossed the channel, then fled to Ireland when King Charles was beheaded.

I plan to become a French Foreign Legion Re-enactor, with my new acquisition in pristine condition:



There is only one little ding on the stock.
Salesman's joke was "It was only dropped once when the French Soldier raised his hands, could have been WWII or Viet Nam."

I will get some "7.5x54 France" brass for this MAS 36 and load my own, if I can find some reloading dies ... looking for factory ammo until then. At least it shoots .308 bullets.

I have already checked the bore for obstruction, whether by wasp or squib ...

Mercyboocoo for the safety reminders y'all.

In My experience-
Norma (and Norma/ Weatherby)-
have had more pressure excursions and failed cases than most other well known factory ammunition-

Do not misunderstand me-
I use Norma, Lapua and RWS brass routinely-
in most of my match loads-
But components and loaded ammo are in different categories-

And-
I predominately handload -

That said -
pushed out/pierced primers,
cases stuck from over pressure,
frozen bolts,
ruptured cases-etc-etc

In my 50 ish year history of hand-loading
and
shooting factory ammo-

Norma ( and Norma /Weatherby)
distinctively -stand out-
for the above mentioned problems-

As always-
Your mileage may vary

quote:

Originally posted by 505G:
Shootaway

You are the only person I know who has done this
more than once or twice in 30 years.

"I`ve had the primer go off on empty round about half a dozen times so far.I was lucky to have the state of mind to stop and see what happen."

You really should give up shooting.

that's because he is the Montreal Moron. no one else would have repeated the same stupid behavior that many times. even a chimp would have learned his lesson sooner than that.

I have used plenty of Norma and RWS ammo, as well as practically the well known makes.

I have no problems with any of them at all, except one.

Hirtenberger!

I will NOT use them for any hunting, as I have had almost a continuous problem with high pressure with them.

This has been going on for years, with several calibers.

In fact, I have had so much of these ammo given to me because the original owners were not happy with them.

Interesting-
We don't get much Hirtenberger in the US-

my only experience with it for me has been 5.56 & 7.62 running in a full autos-
both ran well

I have had major problems with A-Square ammo. To the point where a gunsmith had to open the bolt the pressure was so high. I do not trust A-Square ammo at all.

From what I heard, A Square was always hot.

I bought seven boxes of Browning 375H&H solids a few years ago, from a sale of the last of the inventory of a company that I can’t remember the name of.

The first shot of this ammo I found the recoil to be far more than the factory ammo I’d used before. I pulled the empty to inspect it for over pressure and it showed none of the signs of pressure that would cause concern. I fired the rest of the box and by the time that 20 rounds were fired I had deep burses on my shoulder. This ammo was using 300 gr full patch bullets and came in a gold box of 20 rounds with a drawing of a Cape buffalo on the front of the box. On the back of the box it has a graph to show trajectory of the bullets zeroed at 100, 200, and 300 yds. It lists the velocity as 2550 fps, and energy at 4300 feet pounds of energy at muzzle.

This ammo was loaded for Browning in Montreal, PQ Canada! It is certainly a high pressure ammo, and in the same rifle develops far higher recoil velocity than any factory ammo I have fired in that rifle. I still have one full box of that ammo in my ammo collection, but the rest was given to a friend who wanted it even after I told him about it’s heavy recoil in relation to other brands! One box was enough for me, and I shoot far larger rifles than 375H&H.

P.S.
So factory ammo is sometimes loaded a little hot, and I also got a box of RWS 8mm Mauser that was loaded hot enough that it made it hard to open the bolt on a custom Mauser rifle.
..................................................................

quote:

From what I heard, A Square was always hot.

Mac

As I said above.

http://www.broadswordgroup.com/375_hh.html

I try to respect the idea of not hijacking a post, so let's get back on track: exploding guns (and the lucky French).

As far as I know there are few reports (none?)of Verney-Carron doubles, or Chapuis doubles, or Dorleac & Dorleac bolt action rebuilds, or any other French made or French assembled rifles exploding. There are even fewer reports of French handloaders repeatedly forgetting to put propellent or primers in their reloads. We are indeed lucky to be able to buy French made rifles but also to be able to visit the riflemakers quite easily.

France is of course just a little bit pickier about rifle quality than some countries. Both my Duane Wiebe built 404 Jeffery and my Duane Wiebe rebarrel to 9.3 X 62 required that I visit the proof house in St. Etienne and have them proofed. I didn't mind the visit, it allowed me to learn yet one more thing about rifles. I even sent copies of the proof certificates to Duane so he could present them to anxious clients who are worried about building a rifle on a 1909 Modelo Argentino or WW2 K98 Mauser action.

quote:

Originally posted by 505G:

quote:

From what I heard, A Square was always hot.

Mac

As I said above.

http://www.broadswordgroup.com/375_hh.html

I have never used A-Square ammo, and only used their Super Solid bullet one time, and found that the bullet alone sent the pressure much higher than I like. I never again used one of their Mono-metal bronze solids. The newer mono-metal solids by many companies with bore rider pressure rings is a far safer mono-metal solid IMO.

I guess there could be several reasons for the blow-up that started this thread, but without examining the actual rifle parts it is impossible to be sure of the cause. Still IMO, with the info we have, I'd bet first on the BUG or secondly, one of the bad rifles that passed proof to blow later after some use.

There are lots of theories posted here and most are viable to some extent.
........................................................................

I cant believe I hang out on this sight with all the wankers here.Maybe I should get a life!

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I cant believe I hang out on this sight with all the wankers here.Maybe I should get a life!

Had a rough day at the office?

The only over-pressure event I have ever experienced was with factory ammo. It doesn't make me scared of factory ammo, but it sure did point out, to me anyways, that the major manufacturers are not without the capability of making mistakes.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I cant believe I hang out on this sight with all the wankers here.Maybe I should get a life!

And your the one who opens the bolt
on a gun that has just misfired and
rechambered a new round ?

Just make sure you are not on any ranges
I use.

Is there an investigation being taken into the cause ? by a gunsmith or Sako ?so we can finally find out the cause

Does this model Sako have a safety lug ?[im not familiar with this model]

I may be totally wrong, or my eyes may be fooled, but that popped round does not look like a .375" bullet to me.
Looks more like a .300H&H or 300WM. The ogive on the blown bullet looks to be longer than the examples in the box with the gun.

quote:

Originally posted by Huvius:
I may be totally wrong, or my eyes may be fooled, but that popped round does not look like a .375" bullet to me.
Looks more like a .300H&H or 300WM. The ogive on the blown bullet looks to be longer than the examples in the box with the gun.

Hovius, If you are referring to the pictures of the Weatherby rifle where the man's hand was repaired and the cartridge with the bullet still in the blown cartridge you partially are correct! The cartridge is not a 375H&H, but it is not a 300 Win Mag, or 300Wby Mag either, It is a 257Wby Mag.

The rifle that started this thread was a SAKO 375 H&H but the pictures of the cartridge is from a different rifle.