Giddy up!!

I'm surprised someone hasn't actually identified how the African carry originated. It seems to have been around since the earliest times of hunting in Africa, what old movie and pictures there are depict the natives carrying their spears over the shoulder point first which of course provides for the quickest throw action in the event of coming across an animal, two or four legged.

The origin of the AC in terms of firearms carry, from what Pondoro Taylor among others say, comes about from the white hunter having his native gun bearer walking in front using the AC so all the hunter has to do is reach forward grasp the wrist of his gun and pull it back into his shoulder, safety off as it comes into battery, grasp the barrels and shoot.

Most white hunters it seems in those early days of big game hunting used a gunbearer to carry their heavy guns so that when they did get into action shooting, their arms were not tire and bound up from carrying a heavy gun all day. This is all very logical.
I'm sure those white hunters couldn't have given a rats arse as to how uncomfortable carrying a gun in the AC position all day would have been to the native.

As to claims there is no sweeping involved, have a look at the video in the latest post "Elephant bull with my VC 600NE", no sweeping? Ain't no way I would ever be walking in front of an AC. Anyone dropping in behind me with an AC would soon find my boot or gun barrel hard up their backside.

The worst case is at 4:40 when he completely muzzles his PH in the back with 2 900 grain woodleighs

Yes this has been touched on. And I agree with you 100%

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:
I'm surprised someone hasn't actually identified how the African carry originated. It seems to have been around since the earliest times of hunting in Africa, what old movie and pictures there are depict the natives carrying their spears over the shoulder point first which of course provides for the quickest throw action in the event of coming across an animal, two or four legged.

The origin of the AC in terms of firearms carry, from what Pondoro Taylor among others say, comes about from the white hunter having his native gun bearer walking in front using the AC so all the hunter has to do is reach forward grasp the wrist of his gun and pull it back into his shoulder, safety off as it comes into battery, grasp the barrels and shoot.

Most white hunters it seems in those early days of big game hunting used a gunbearer to carry their heavy guns so that when they did get into action shooting, their arms were not tire and bound up from carrying a heavy gun all day. This is all very logical.
I'm sure those white hunters couldn't have given a rats arse as to how uncomfortable carrying a gun in the AC position all day would have been to the native.

As to claims there is no sweeping involved, have a look at the video in the latest post "Elephant bull with my VC 600NE", no sweeping? Ain't no way I would ever be walking in front of an AC. Anyone dropping in behind me with an AC would soon find my boot or gun barrel hard up their backside.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by gunslinger55:
Sounds like the best reason is “because we always did it that way” kind of like a company I work for lol.

My PHs with their doubles didn't carry like that

Of course, the exact same thing can be said for only being comfortable with the sling method. Because "we always did it that way".

EVERY PH I've hunted with that had a double carries via the AC method. I've never seen a PH carry a double with a sling.

I have to agree with Todd on this one! especially when carrying a double rifle in tight bush. I have always carried A/W once I'm into Jess. Like Todd, a sling is a real hindrance when carrying a double rifle, and is a real hindrance with quick action with a double rifle, and like Todd said, I always know where my muzzles are pointing, and when trailing in single file, the normal carry is with the muzzles pointing at a 45 degree angle to the right if on the right shoulder, and the opposite direction if on the left shoulder.
When changing sides, the muzzles are raised upwards over my head to move to the left shoulder, neither movement points at the person in front of me.


However there are different strokes for different folks. I can't stand a sling on my doubles, so I will continue to carry African style, other may do as they please as long as they don't point at me, because I wont be pointing a them!

……………………………………………………………...

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by gunslinger55:
Sounds like the best reason is “because we always did it that way” kind of like a company I work for lol.

My PHs with their doubles didn't carry like that

Of course, the exact same thing can be said for only being comfortable with the sling method. Because "we always did it that way".

EVERY PH I've hunted with that had a double carries via the AC method. I've never seen a PH carry a double with a sling.

I have to agree with Todd on this one! especially when carrying a double rifle in tight bush. I have always carried A/W once I'm into Jess. Like Todd, a sling is a real hindrance when carrying a double rifle, and is a real hindrance with quick action with a double rifle, and like Todd said, I always know where my muzzles are pointing, and when trailing in single file, the normal carry is with the muzzles pointing at a 45 degree angle to the right if on the right shoulder, and the opposite direction if on the left shoulder.
When changing sides, the muzzles are raised upwards over my head to move to the left shoulder, neither movement points at the person in front of me.


However there are different strokes for different folks. I can't stand a sling on my doubles, so I will continue to carry African style, other may do as they please as long as they don't point at me, because I wont be pointing a them!

……………………………………………………………...

Only difference for me Mac is that when I change sides, either to balance the load for awhile or when the line crosses out front and I need to swing to the other side, I pull the muzzles in tight while lowering my hand holding the muzzles, pointing them at the ground, butt of the rifle up. Then just switch sides using the other hand all the while the muzzles are pointed at the ground and away from those out front. After the switch, the muzzles are raised again and approximately 45 degrees off line from those out front. Takes a lot longer to describe it than to do it.

quote:

By Todd[/Quote
EVERY PH I've hunted with that had a double carries via the AC method. I've never seen a PH carry a double with a sling.

quote:

Mac
I have to agree with Todd on this one! especially when carrying a double rifle in tight bush. I have always carried A/W once I'm into Jess. Like Todd, a sling is a real hindrance when carrying a double rifle, and is a real hindrance with quick action with a double rifle, and like Todd said, I always know where my muzzles are pointing, and when trailing in single file, the normal carry is with the muzzles pointing at a 45 degree angle to the right if on the right shoulder, and the opposite direction if on the left shoulder.
When changing sides, the muzzles are raised upwards over my head to move to the left shoulder, neither movement points at the person in front of me.


However there are different strokes for different folks. I can't stand a sling on my doubles, so I will continue to carry African style, other may do as they please as long as they don't point at me, because I wont be pointing a them!

……………………………………………………………...

quote:

Todd
Only difference for me Mac is that when I change sides, either to balance the load for awhile or when the line crosses out front and I need to swing to the other side, I pull the muzzles in tight while lowering my hand holding the muzzles, pointing them at the ground, butt of the rifle up. Then just switch sides using the other hand all the while the muzzles are pointed at the ground and away from those out front. After the switch, the muzzles are raised again and approximately 45 degrees off line from those out front. Takes a lot longer to describe it than to do it.

Either way will be OK as long as the muzzles are pointing at a safe direction! There are many things one sees in the field, that seem to be something else when seen on film.

The rule is don't point your muzzles at anyone, but the target, and all is proper! Telling others how to handle their rifle is a suggestion, that is taken if needed, but if not needed...…….WELL! That is a zebra of the different stripe! Simply carry any way you choose, as long as you are not endangering others! When you get down to the NIT in the PICKING disregard everything but where your muzzles are pointing at all times, regardless of method of carry and everyone will go home in one piece!

………………………………………………………...

With all due respect firearm safety is never merely a suggestion.

Did he die?

That’s a damn sad addition to this thread, but I assume it would’ve t be the last.

quote:

Originally posted by Joe-S:
if the African is so safe and makes it ready for a quick shot, why is it never used in Alaska on Grizzly bear hunts
my guess is hunters going to Africa play the part just like the hunting shows

I’ve seen it used quite a bit in my 30 years of hunting Alaska.

I’ll often carry my 338 that way, with the magazine floorplate resting on my shoulder. Ofcourse its patterned after an express rifle, so no surprise it’s comfortable and easy to carry that way. Same for my doubles when I take one of them.

A short video I just uploaded to demo what the African Carry method is and is not.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?...uug&feature=youtu.be

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
A short video I just uploaded to demo what the African Carry method is and is not.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?...uug&feature=youtu.be

……………………………………………………….. Perfect!

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
A short video I just uploaded to demo what the African Carry method is and is not.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?...uug&feature=youtu.be

That's a great demonstration and explanation showing thoughtful respect for safety and gunhandling.

Good stuff Todd.

Nice room: Africa, guns, music...can I come over to play?

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:
Good stuff Todd.

Nice room: Africa, guns, music...can I come over to play?

Anytime!!

Just broke ground on a new trophy room however. Started 3 days ago. Going to be Trophies, Doge Viper, Guitars, Drums, and Big Screen TV's for sports, topped off with a wet bar!!!

Big glass roll up door leading to the covered porch and fire pit, making it an indoor / outdoor retreat.

Come on over!!!

I think I'll stay out of this one.

Good demo Todd.

Good video Todd. I’m sure you are mindful enough to pull that off 100 percent of the time. It’s not video angle that can be blamed in the above mentioned elephant hunt. It’s adrenaline. Lack of mindfulness of muzzle direction and sloppy handling. Unless you are in 100 percent of the time using your technique and muzzle awareness you will muzzle or will get muzzled in a group of people at some point usually multiple times. Definitely it can be done but it is very attention intensive technique intensive and has zero margin for error. That’s my take. Sure you still gotta pull the trigger to shoot someone but it happens. I personally unless I knew the person very well and was comfortable with him/her behind me it may happen. Otherwise you are in front

quote:

Originally posted by gunslinger55:
Good video Todd. I’m sure you are mindful enough to pull that off 100 percent of the time. It’s not video angle that can be blamed in the above mentioned elephant hunt. It’s adrenaline. Lack of mindfulness of muzzle direction and sloppy handling. Unless you are in 100 percent of the time using your technique and muzzle awareness you will muzzle or will get muzzled in a group of people at some point usually multiple times. Definitely it can be done but it is very attention intensive technique intensive and has zero margin for error. That’s my take. Sure you still gotta pull the trigger to shoot someone but it happens. I personally unless I knew the person very well and was comfortable with him/her behind me it may happen. Otherwise you are in front

Gentlemen, the only way to be 100 percent sure you will not be swept or sweeping anyone else is if you are the only one on a hunt, no matter the method of carry. In my opinion, the African carry with a double, if done properly is, in my opinion, is far safer than with a sling, once you get into the thick jess, or on a follow-up on a wounded target of a lion, buffalo, or leopard. In that situation the rifle will be carried in your hands at the ready if you are smart, and if you don't want to sweep another person you will be ever vigilant of where your muzzles are pointing at all times, and your rifle will not be on a sling.


The one case a few years ago where a PH's arm was shot off was not the result of the A/C method but was because of a client hunter trying jump across natural ditch with his double loaded and fell causing the rifle to fire.
Any kid in the USA is taught to never cross a fence, or jump a ditch or small stream without unloading his shotgun, and when walking with others never point his loaded gun at anyone. the African carry is not dangerous, if those warnings are followed to the letter, any more that a sling carry.
I can guarantee you that the sling carry is just as likely to sweep someone in the process of getting the rifle into action in a hurry when speed of defense is suddenly in your face at close quarters.


The danger is the PERSON carrying in group, no matter the type, when surprised in close quarters with a dangerous animal. In my opinion, the A/C is the safest method,
when in a line hunt, the way it is always done in Africa, because your eyes are always
on the muzzles. or muzzle, of your rifle!

Opinions are like a-holes everybody has one, and the all have to be aimed at a proper target before they are put into use!


…………………………………………………………….. .....

Right Mac. GS's response above seems concerned that the AC method requires 100% attention and that a sling would be safer because it doesn't. That really makes my argument for me in that I find with the sling, once you put the strap over your shoulder, the rifle is somewhat out of sight and out of mind. Further, you have no idea of where the people behind you are. That's fine for walking in open country on flat terrain where the muzzle isn't in a constant state of movement.

Hunting certain places in Africa, such as Dande, with all the elevation changes and thick stuff, the rifle is always in a state of movement because your body position is always in a state of movement. You are either leaning forward or back, or side to side, for a variety of reasons, often to extreme body positions to duck under vines and other obstacles, etc. With the rifle on a sling in those conditions, I'll guarantee you are sweeping the people behind you without knowing it on a regular basis. Give the guy behind you a camera, carry on a sling for a couple of hours, then review the video. You'll be surprised how often you're looking down that muzzle.

With the AC, you are tuned into where the guys are that you can see in front, and tuned into where your muzzles are, giving you the best chance for staying in the game mentally and avoiding sweeps.

I'm also going to agree with Saeed and Jines in that no matter what method of carry you use, sweeps are going to occur, despite best efforts. But I do find the AC method to be perfectly safe when performed correctly, and in my opinion, safer than a sling under certain conditions as described above, largely because of the active engagement factor.

The times I recall sweeping someone while AC typically were when someone else suddenly stepped out of line in an unexpected direction... but then trackers have stepped in front of me while I am on the sticks and on the trigger as well. That scared the bejeezus out of me...

It’s a team effort.

Good hunters do their best. The relative paucity of GSW shows that.

As to .mil doing a great job, you don’t see pictures of wholesale sweeping like you used to, but it happens. So does blue on blue casualties. Friendly fire happens there as well, probably more than admitted.

For an injury to occur, a whole cascade of things has to go wrong. Being mindful of it offers many links in the chain to break the error from occurring.

I don’t see AC as being any better or worse than other options. It has its positives (less strenuous than hand carry, speed, less snagging of bush, visual notice of the muzzle) and it’s negatives (lack of positive control of the trigger, aptitude of the user to recognize likely sweeping situations, need to deal with terrain) like all methods will.

If absolute safety was needed, you wouldn’t be out there. You control what you can.

If you watch Saeed, he just pitches his rifle on his shoulder (like the army command "right shoulder arms"). I find that to be as comfortable as any, by far the safest (you won't have to worry about anyone crossing in front of you), and just as fast to bring arms to bear as anything carry except port arms.

I have used the African carry but only when the rifle chamber is empty, and then I put my palm over the muzzle, figuring if it somehow was loaded and I did act unsafely, I would at least shoot myself first. I prefer carrying my rifle unloaded but if the guide/PH tells me to put one up the spout, it goes on my shoulder with the muzzle up.

Incorrect assumption. You must always be aware of muzzle direction. The fact they are pointed vertical makes it safer right off the bat. There is a reason the army issues slings with their rifle. Lowest common denominator cones to mind. Sure there are times when another mode of carry can be beneficial. But saying it is safer? When you say “sling your rifle” you are implying you are making it safe. And saying you have no control of said rifle while slung is false as well. You can control it just fine. In fact if climbing in mountainous terrain or for long distances i prefer to sling across back so no hands required nor will rifle flop around or fall off shoulder. Obviously not when in close proximity to DG but you get the point. Still can be controlled and muzzle discipline remains fully available. Case in point I will not walk up to someone with a rifle muzzle pointed horizontal with out some hesitation just like if they had a pistol in hand/upholstered. If it is slung I have some reasonable assurance it will not accidentally point in my direction. Same with a holstered handgun.

Shoulder arms muzzle vertical. Not horizontal. So no issue besides fatigue

I appreciate your dedication Todd to explaining it and I’m sure you are capable of safe carry but like aviation if you remove barriers you will get accidents. Case in point the elephant video only a few called out the unsafe gun Handling but most praise his shooting and videography. Under stress like that accidents happen but maybe having the shooter in front may of been a good idea or abreast for sure. Not in a conga line. I understand in a situation like with an angry elephant close by that you need the rifle available but there is definitely no need to muzzle your partner with a loaded big bore unless in a lifesaving emergency situation. Which that wasn’t as far as I can tell. I am not telling anyone how to carry just pointing out some obvious and noticeable problems with this form of carry. I guarantee if you show up somewhere with a rifle African carry breech closed (pick any location besides a camp in africa)people will be a bit nervous. Slung or carried muzzle up less nervous. The fact a muzzle is horizontal head level with an assumption it’s loaded makes me nervous. Maybe I am a scaredy-cat? Who knows

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Right Mac. GS's response above seems concerned that the AC method requires 100% attention and that a sling would be safer because it doesn't. That really makes my argument for me in that I find with the sling, once you put the strap over your shoulder, the rifle is somewhat out of sight and out of mind. Further, you have no idea of where the people behind you are. That's fine for walking in open country on flat terrain where the muzzle isn't in a constant state of movement.

Hunting certain places in Africa, such as Dande, with all the elevation changes and thick stuff, the rifle is always in a state of movement because your body position is always in a state of movement. You are either leaning forward or back, or side to side, for a variety of reasons, often to extreme body positions to duck under vines and other obstacles, etc. With the rifle on a sling in those conditions, I'll guarantee you are sweeping the people behind you without knowing it on a regular basis. Give the guy behind you a camera, carry on a sling for a couple of hours, then review the video. You'll be surprised how often you're looking down that muzzle.

With the AC, you are tuned into where the guys are that you can see in front, and tuned into where your muzzles are, giving you the best chance for staying in the game mentally and avoiding sweeps.

I'm also going to agree with Saeed and Jines in that no matter what method of carry you use, sweeps are going to occur, despite best efforts. But I do find the AC method to be perfectly safe when performed correctly, and in my opinion, safer than a sling under certain conditions as described above, largely because of the active engagement factor.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
If you watch Saeed, he just pitches his rifle on his shoulder (like the army command "right shoulder arms"). I find that to be as comfortable as any, by far the safest (you won't have to worry about anyone crossing in front of you), and just as fast to bring arms to bear as anything carry except port arms.

I have used the African carry but only when the rifle chamber is empty, and then I put my palm over the muzzle, figuring if it somehow was loaded and I did act unsafely, I would at least shoot myself first. I prefer carrying my rifle unloaded but if the guide/PH tells me to put one up the spout, it goes on my shoulder with the muzzle up.

Good approach. I always carry an unloaded gun unless the ph says keep it loaded. He is there with a big gun for a reason and besides i get super fast on my feet when there are elephants around

Hunting bush pig in the river beds at Mokore in the save we were constantly crossing streams and pools of water. I had zero issues with sweeping and pointing my loaded gun at ph or trackers as I handed them the gun when crossing streams. I simply took out the firing mechanism from the blaser r-8 that insured the loaded gun was always on safe, uncooked and impossible to shoot. I then handed the gun and they grabbed it by barrel. I insured I was always the person handing the blaser off or receiving the blaser and never receiving some Mauser action rifle (ph rifle).

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:


Hunting bush pig in the river beds at Mokore in the save we were constantly crossing streams and pools of water. I had zero issues with sweeping and pointing my loaded gun at ph or trackers as I handed them the gun when crossing streams. I simply took out the firing mechanism from the blaser r-8 that insured the loaded gun was always on safe, uncooked and impossible to shoot. I then handed the gun and they grabbed it by barrel. I insured I was always the person handing the blaser off or receiving the blaser and never receiving some Mauser action rifle (ph rifle).

Mike

With the entry of blaser abominations into the discussion, we have officially reached the twilight zone.

No, we have officially entered the horse abattoir
Reminds me of the eternal push feed vs crf debate.

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
If you watch Saeed, he just pitches his rifle on his shoulder (like the army command "right shoulder arms"). I find that to be as comfortable as any, by far the safest (you won't have to worry about anyone crossing in front of you), and just as fast to bring arms to bear as anything carry except port arms.

I have used the African carry but only when the rifle chamber is empty, and then I put my palm over the muzzle, figuring if it somehow was loaded and I did act unsafely, I would at least shoot myself first. I prefer carrying my rifle unloaded but if the guide/PH tells me to put one up the spout, it goes on my shoulder with the muzzle up.

Good approach. I always carry an unloaded gun unless the ph says keep it loaded. He is there with a big gun for a reason and besides i get super fast on my feet when there are elephants around

Hunting bush pig in the river beds at Mokore in the save we were constantly crossing streams and pools of water. I had zero issues with sweeping and pointing my loaded gun at ph or trackers as I handed them the gun when crossing streams. I simply took out the firing mechanism from the blaser r-8 that insured the loaded gun was always on safe, uncooked and impossible to shoot. I then handed the gun and they grabbed it by barrel. I insured I was always the person handing the blaser off or receiving the blaser and never receiving some Mauser action rifle (ph rifle).

Mike

So that’s the purpose for a Blaser? To allow folks who shouldn’t be allowed near DG to play with the rest of us safely?

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
If you watch Saeed, he just pitches his rifle on his shoulder (like the army command "right shoulder arms"). I find that to be as comfortable as any, by far the safest (you won't have to worry about anyone crossing in front of you), and just as fast to bring arms to bear as anything carry except port arms.

I have used the African carry but only when the rifle chamber is empty, and then I put my palm over the muzzle, figuring if it somehow was loaded and I did act unsafely, I would at least shoot myself first. I prefer carrying my rifle unloaded but if the guide/PH tells me to put one up the spout, it goes on my shoulder with the muzzle up.

Good approach. I always carry an unloaded gun unless the ph says keep it loaded. He is there with a big gun for a reason and besides i get super fast on my feet when there are elephants around

Hunting bush pig in the river beds at Mokore in the save we were constantly crossing streams and pools of water. I had zero issues with sweeping and pointing my loaded gun at ph or trackers as I handed them the gun when crossing streams. I simply took out the firing mechanism from the blaser r-8 that insured the loaded gun was always on safe, uncooked and impossible to shoot. I then handed the gun and they grabbed it by barrel. I insured I was always the person handing the blaser off or receiving the blaser and never receiving some Mauser action rifle (ph rifle).

Mike

So that’s the purpose for a Blaser? To allow folks who shouldn’t be allowed near DG to play with the rest of us safely?

Let the marketing pitch to separate one from their $$ that is African hunting (along with most discretionary vacations) not come in the way of reality. Not one ar members hunting or marksmanship or any great outdoor skill other than wiring money is needed in Africa to control dangerous game

Mike

I will carry my gun any way I want to..and that's the African carry, and I know where the muzzle is at all times and if I fall I can direct that muzzle in a safe direction..Some seem to be the hunter police, and set in their ways and its there way or the highway..The most common carry is in hand pointing forward, is that any different other than you don't have the same amount of control..I don't believe this thread was posted with much thought, just an over reaction..In the course of a day I might, in fact, carry a rifle in all carries as I sore up over the weeks behind me..As long as its never pointed at someone its suitable.

Why do I do it, because I can glass with my binocs with the barrel in hand, Ive seen more than a few guns dropped trying to glass otherwise, such as the guy with the sling kneeling down and the sling gets loose and the rifle tips over is common or the guy tries to hold the gun by the action and the binocs also, and that's a common dropped gun..Over many years the Africans have learned to carry a rifle and use it to scope out an area with the gun in hand, not leaning up against a tree, and its easy to set the rifle down with your left hand and use it as a stick to brace the binocs..Lots of good reasons developed over the years by hunters not desk jockys at home...

Haha that’s pretty funny. Maybe you should read all of the thread. Apparently you didn’t. Carry any way you like? Go for it.....

Folks

To answer an earlier question the Duckworths/Mokore Safaris use a sling even on doubles. They took a lesson from Roger Whittal killing his tracker while using the AC.

Mark

Even Robert Redford in Out of Africa used a sling on his double.......

I’m just now watching a ‘Dark and Dangerous’ episode and the client has done a damn near 360’ with his muzzle with AC, including a lady ahead of him. I also noticed the logo of the show. for lack of a better term, has a silhouette of a hunter with AC in play.

I don’t mean to kick that dead horse, but it’s ridiculous watching this.

I know it is ‘cool’ and convenient to AC, but PHs should show Todd’s video to clients prior to the hunt. Yes, this was a bolt rifle. Camera angles be damned, many of the hunting party had the business end of a big bore at their back.

quote:

Originally posted by DCS Member:
I’m just now watching a ‘Dark and Dangerous’ episode and the client has done a damn near 360’ with his muzzle with AC, including a lady ahead of him. I also noticed the logo of the show. for lack of a better term, has a silhouette of a hunter with AC in play.

I don’t mean to kick that dead horse, but it’s ridiculous watching this.

I know it is ‘cool’ and convenient to AC, but PHs should show Todd’s video to clients prior to the hunt. Yes, this was a bolt rifle. Camera angles be damned, many of the hunting party had the business end of a big bore at their back.

I'm sure some who simply watch hunting films may use the A/C in the wrong way when they finally get to Africa. If a client is new to Africa, the PH should do a short school on safety before the hunt begins, with cautions pertaining to method of carry, and explain the fact that in Africa a hunting party always moves in a single line and the muzzles/ or muzzle of the rifle is to be never pointed at anything you do not intend to kill.

This is mainly in regard to those who have only hunting film experience with this type of hunting. I carry my doubles African carry but I never let my muzzles point at anyone. I use the same method as Todd with one tiny exception, but my muzzles NEVER POINT AT ANYONE but the animal I'm about to shoot!


THE RESPONCIBILITY TO NEVER POINT A RIFLE AT ANYONE YOU DO NOT WANT TO SHOOT IS THE RESPONCIBILITY OF THE PERSON CARRYING THE RIFLE, NO ONE ELSE REGARDLESS OF METHOD OF CARRY!...………………………….

John Sharp takes umbrage at this African Carry issue. BRING A SLING he says...So I did...Besides, I don't want the bluing to come off my barrel(s)...

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by DCS Member:
I’m just now watching a ‘Dark and Dangerous’ episode and the client has done a damn near 360’ with his muzzle with AC, including a lady ahead of him. I also noticed the logo of the show. for lack of a better term, has a silhouette of a hunter with AC in play.

I don’t mean to kick that dead horse, but it’s ridiculous watching this.

I know it is ‘cool’ and convenient to AC, but PHs should show Todd’s video to clients prior to the hunt. Yes, this was a bolt rifle. Camera angles be damned, many of the hunting party had the business end of a big bore at their back.

I'm sure some who simply watch hunting films may use the A/C in the wrong way when they finally get to Africa. If a client is new to Africa, the PH should do a short school on safety before the hunt begins, with cautions pertaining to method of carry, and explain the fact that in Africa a hunting party always moves in a single line and the muzzles/ or muzzle of the rifle is to be never pointed at anything you do not intend to kill.

This is mainly in regard to those who have only hunting film experience with this type of hunting. I carry my doubles African carry but I never let my muzzles point at anyone. I use the same method as Todd with one tiny exception, but my muzzles NEVER POINT AT ANYONE but the animal I'm about to shoot!


THE RESPONCIBILITY TO NEVER POINT A RIFLE AT ANYONE YOU DO NOT WANT TO SHOOT IS THE RESPONCIBILITY OF THE PERSON CARRYING THE RIFLE, NO ONE ELSE REGARDLESS OF METHOD OF CARRY!...………………………….

Exactly! If you get in a situation where someone may get flagged, clear the bloody weapon and show everyone on the team it is clear. It only takes 5 minutes and money to dress like a pro. It takes training and responsibility to be one. Control your muzzle, watch your lane and keep your finger off the trigger. If you can do that simple task, carry the rifle however you want.

Safe hunting

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Folks

To answer an earlier question the Duckworths/Mokore Safaris use a sling even on doubles. They took a lesson from Roger Whittal killing his tracker while using the AC.

Mark

I am sure that is not the last word on the subject, but perhaps it should be.

I just hunted for a long time with Andrew Baldry as my PH.

He carried a .500 Nitro Express double rifle, or a .404 Jeffery bolt rifle, as his back up weapons. Neither had a sling and each was carried in various ways, mostly in the hands, and sometimes on the shoulder.

Any time we left the truck, and at any time along the way when the status quo changed, Andrew would open the action of his rifle and show me whether it was loaded or unloaded. My bolt rifle was always loaded with the safety on, and I always used the sling. He knew that, as well.

All else aside, that is called communication, which leads to awareness, and I really like that. But even so, I can’t think of a single time when either of us covered the other, or anyone else, with the muzzle of his rifle, loaded or not.

Sometimes uncomfortably close, but always happily no cigar.

That takes a lot of concentration. But there you have it.

Well that kind of attention can’t be faulted. Like you said it was close at times, and you said uncomfortably?. When did he unload? Anyhow thanks for the report