For the last 5 or so trips, I leave Africa and I feel fine. I get to Atlanta and I start to head downhill slightly. By the time I hit Orlando, I feel queasy and weak. I can hardly eat. The wife says I look like hell which some say is an improvement.

This has happened repeatedly. It NEVER happens on the trip over. Only on the way back. It is miserable.

I asked my wife what she thinks. What the hell does she know, she only went to Dartmouth medical school. Her best theory is dehydration coupled with the time change causing a big delay is taking my medicines.

Any ideas?

Once I had a sensitive tooth that lasted for about a year and was getting worst by the day.It disappeared miraculously on my trip over to Africa.I am no doctor but I believe depression is to blame for a lot of our issues.

Listen to your wife. Water makes all the difference on these flights. If you are not hitting the head every two or so hours, you're not drinking enough.

Plus practice helps. Take more trips over. Seems to help me.

Larry, since we are such close friends, I thought I would offer to help you out.
As an experiment you could just send me to fill in for you to save you from this horrific problem you are experiencing on your return.
Problem is, even if you agreed, right now I can't seem to get away from work long enough to go.
But you can always remember that my heart was in the right place.

Sounds like post Africa blues to me

Larry

Those of us that are not acclimetized loose excessive salt with our sweat when exposed to very hot weather. Low NaCl levels makes it difficult to concentrate urin and worsens any dehydration. The air in a plane is very dry and fluid loss is above normal. On your way home your NaCL levels are low. Ypu are probably lightly dehydrated and the dry air does the rest.
Next time take salt tablets

Regards Carl Frederik (MD)

I generally feel like a giant ass burger also. It is dehydration. Hard to fight it.

Jeff

And you hydrate better by drinking water more of a room temp and no ice

And I have heard, but granted I've never attempted this, that limiting alcohol consumption before and during the flight also helps. But I really don't see the potential benefit. I believe it's just a wive's tale.

Drink plenty of water, take an ambien and a double malt scotch before you take off. When you arrive in the states you might feel like crap but won't remember the trip. Works for an old guy (me) when he flys to the MidEast on Mil Air

Thanks gentlemen.

It is NOT from alcohol consumption. I probably last had a drink about 2 weeks before I left.

While in Zim, I consumed a lot of water, often mixed with G-2 (low calorie Gatorade). My guess is about 1.5 gallons daily.

The day of the flight, I had 3-4 bottles of water before I left Zim. I had a couple while in OR Tambo. I had 2 bottles of Powerade on the flight and at least 1 bottle of water, maybe more.

I know I slowed down because I was getting up to pee a lot.

Do you still think it is dehydration?

All I know is that is was a miserable day yesterday. I do not understand why it happens on the return and not on the way over. Personally, I think I consumed less fluids on the way over.

Thanks again!

I think dehydration affects different people differently.

I am not sure why, but I find that it has less effect on me than others.

I remember in Chete, years ago when we used to carry a few bottles of boiled lake water in a backpack. The water is normally finished by 9, drunk by everyone else. And I would go all day, sometimes till sunset, without any more drink if we did not get back to the truck.

I refuse to drink water from a water hole, others do.

All this after having drank one mug of coffee and one mug of tea at breakfast.

We have had people with us who almost become totally useless if they get dehydrated.

I fly long haul international. Westbound jet lag is always worse than Eastbond lag. I always feel the same as you after coming home from Africa as well. I think that getting climatized over there then flying back in such a short time might have something to do with it.

I also think that Malarone affects me negatively. But yes, it takes me a good week to get turned around from an African hunting trip.

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
Drink plenty of water, take an ambien and a double malt scotch before you take off. When you arrive in the states you might feel like crap but won't remember the trip. Works for an old guy (me) when he flys to the MidEast on Mil Air

CAREFUL! Alcohol and ambien are a dangerous mix! Had a guy in business last week on one of my flights stand up and take a piss on the floor by his seat. Ambien and alcohol, he claimed he didn't remember a thing. He got to tell his story to the local police on arrival, I don't know if he is going to get charged criminally or not at this point.

Jetlag coupled with knowing your vacation is over and you are going back to work.

Traveling half way round the world in less than a day screws with your internal clock. Many folks can 'power through' that, but it takes a toll. Sometimes you can hide the toll, other times you can't.

Pissing in the aisle. That's a new one for sure. But I have seen quite a few completely spaced out folks wandering around the aircraft, some trying to sleep in the aisles and one passed out in the bathroom that had to be carried out.

While they may not remember what they do, the rest of us unfortunately do...

I think I prefer flying on long trips when the trip begins late in the day or in the evening that way I am tired and feel like lying down doing nothing.It is bad when I finish a trip after being outdoors 24hrs a day for 14 days, breathing all that pure outdoor air and then all of a sudden you are forced to sit down 20hrs straight without moving, being full of energy and breathing stale air.

Jet Lag. Jet Lag. Jet Lag.

Larry, I think it's the subconscious knowledge that you're heading back to Florida and will have to talk to Mikey again :-)

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Thanks gentlemen.

It is NOT from alcohol consumption. I probably last had a drink about 2 weeks before I left.

While in Zim, I consumed a lot of water, often mixed with G-2 (low calorie Gatorade). My guess is about 1.5 gallons daily.

The day of the flight, I had 3-4 bottles of water before I left Zim. I had a couple while in OR Tambo. I had 2 bottles of Powerade on the flight and at least 1 bottle of water, maybe more.

I know I slowed down because I was getting up to pee a lot.

Do you still think it is dehydration?

All I know is that is was a miserable day yesterday. I do not understand why it happens on the return and not on the way over. Personally, I think I consumed less fluids on the way over.

Thanks again!

No. You depleted your electrolytes. Gatorade/Powerade is little more than sugar water. It's not about liquid. But your -iums, especially potassium. I'm no Dr but I know for certain when I do not keep my electrolytes in check I feel sluggish and weak/queasy. My guess is you ate a better balanced diet here than there. Before trips or in hot weather, I increase potassium (suggested is 3000 mg a day-almost no one gets this) by drinking coconut water or tomato juice regularly. I try to do this all the time but am especially mindful before trips.

As I say, I'm no Dr, but have figured this much out about my own body.

Good luck.

Larry: I'm normally the same way, always "sort-of-sick" for a few days upon my return. Not this trip, though. I, like Saeed and Lake Kariba, drank a bottle of delicious Turgwe River water (didn't know it until after the fact, though) and two days later fell to some sort of intestinal parasite. Had Cipro and started immediately and it helped some and thank goodness for a 20 hour layover in Dubai on the way home. Got home 12 days ago and got two more types of meds and almost over it, I hope. Still pretty weak but would be happy to swap with you. Pretty good diet plan, too. This morning I weighed 14 lbs less than when we left for Zim.

Both Sadie and I have actually gotten sick on the return from some bug we picked up but other than feeling a little lethargic for a day or two we generally do pretty well on the return. Being able to sleep on the plane and as others have said keeping hydrated helps a bunch. I have to think that flying BA and having a long break between flights has to be easier on your body than that killer out of Atlanta.

Mark

I got the 'bug' once before returning from Zim. Made the mistake of brushing my teeth from the wash basin one morning instead of using bottled water. Took 3 months of off and on sickness and finally being so dehydrated that I passed out one day at home, for me to go see the Doc and have him give me something that killed everything inside of me. Not fun. Not fun at all.

quote:

Originally posted by Opus1:
Listen to your wife. Water makes all the difference on these flights. If you are not hitting the head every two or so hours, you're not drinking enough.

Plus practice helps. Take more trips over. Seems to help me.

Agree, hydration is important.
I have one drink or less of alcohol. And drink lots of water. Never have had an issue on multiple Africa or over seas business trips.

I've had it twice. Both times, a course of Cipro took care of it. It's probably something that you pick up when you get there that takes 2-3 weeks to gestate in your system.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
Drink plenty of water, take an ambien and a double malt scotch before you take off. When you arrive in the states you might feel like crap but won't remember the trip. Works for an old guy (me) when he flys to the MidEast on Mil Air

CAREFUL! Alcohol and ambien are a dangerous mix! Had a guy in business last week on one of my flights stand up and take a piss on the floor by his seat. Ambien and alcohol, he claimed he didn't remember a thing. He got to tell his story to the local police on arrival, I don't know if he is going to get charged criminally or not at this point.

Such occurrences were very common in the late 80's when Halcion (Triazolam) was fairly new and prescribed frequently.

Had a man in the ER that got up one morning and mistakenly took Halcion instead of Digitalis after a night of boozing.
Found himself in a collision with a Police cruiser in Austin,while on the way to the Office in Ft Worth from his Weatherford home.

He was completed disoriented at the scene and had only a .02 ETOH (,1 being intoxicate back then).

As soon as the Halcion cleared he was coherent.

Ambien can be similar, though typically not as disorienting.

I fly regularly international and SA from USA a couple of times a year and typically go back to work the day after I get back:

This works for me:

3-4 days Before leaving stay up later and later at night till 3am or so (tough if you are hunting with early SA starts)

On the plane get extra leg room if not business

Take non stop flight to USA

As soon as you get on the plane switch your watch to USA time

Walk and read till USA 9pm time or so

Drink water but not too much without salt ( the danger is "water intoxication" medically known as hyponatremia)

Skip alcohol and coffee (no more than one glass od wine). No sedatives - ambien midazolam Ativan etc. these all have hangover effects. You should be tired enough by 9pm not to need a sedative, especially if you skipped coffee.

Sleep as long as you can before landing and skip breakfast except fruit juice or coffee if you drink it regularly.

Stay up the night you get back till 8pm or so.

You should be ready for 10 hour workday.

Good luck.

Side Bar: Ambien, and, Ambien and alcohol.

Ambien and Lunesta make me sleep walk. I've read and been told by my doctor that this is a fairly common side effect.

My wife and I have discovered that in addition to sleep-walking, I would sometimes also sleep-eat. We've discovered evidence in our kitchen: open cracker boxes, half-eaten sandwiches, open juice containers.

Once, I awoke standing at the island in my pantry holding a knife and cutting a block of cheese.

Woke up in the shower once......

I once took an Ambien on a flight from Atlanta to JoBerg. When I woke up, everyone, and I mean everyone on the plane, was looking at me.... To this day I have no idea why.

These meds, and these meds in conjunction with alcohol are not to be taken lightly.

Don't mean to high jack the thread, just prompted by the post about a guy pissing in the aisle of an airplane.

I don't take "sleep aides" any more.

Yep, jetlag. Combined with all the other factors. You are pumped going over. Your body could temporally fight off a disease.

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB
No. You depleted your electrolytes. Gatorade/Powerade is little more than sugar water. It's not about liquid. But your -iums, especially potassium. I'm no Dr but I know for certain when I do not keep my electrolytes in check I feel sluggish and weak/queasy. My guess is you ate a better balanced diet here than there. Before trips or in hot weather, I increase potassium (suggested is 3000 mg a day-almost no one gets this) by drinking coconut water or tomato juice regularly. I try to do this all the time but am especially mindful before trips.

As I say, I'm no Dr, but have figured this much out about my own body.

Good luck.

Pretty obvious you're not a doc, because lots of misinformation in your response.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Thanks gentlemen.

It is NOT from alcohol consumption. I probably last had a drink about 2 weeks before I left.

While in Zim, I consumed a lot of water, often mixed with G-2 (low calorie Gatorade). My guess is about 1.5 gallons daily.

The day of the flight, I had 3-4 bottles of water before I left Zim. I had a couple while in OR Tambo. I had 2 bottles of Powerade on the flight and at least 1 bottle of water, maybe more.

I know I slowed down because I was getting up to pee a lot.

Do you still think it is dehydration?

All I know is that is was a miserable day yesterday. I do not understand why it happens on the return and not on the way over. Personally, I think I consumed less fluids on the way over.

Thanks again!

Yes it is dehydration. AS I tried to explain over the low Na (hyponatremia) makes you pee more. Take NaCl pills next time and I am sure you will be ok.

Good Hunting
Carl Frederik

The trip back is always worse because it's the culmination of days or weeks of an altered environment.

I make sure I hydrate, or over-hydrate, by consuming measured quantities of water on a schedule, not just as and when I feel thirsty. I also make sure when in the bush or on the road to use a good rehydration mixture. There used to be a good locally available product in southern Africa called Darrolyte but any good product will so more good than harm; in the Middle East I used the Gatorade sachets. I will not go to the Zambezi Valley without a couple of IVs packed away either.

I don't bug out on vitamins, but some meals are balanced and the really good ones come from McD's or BK so probably not so much. So I take a good multivitamin like Centrum every day.

I think it all comes down to electrolyte balance at the end of the day.

quote:

Originally posted by Carl Frederik Nagell:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Thanks gentlemen.

It is NOT from alcohol consumption. I probably last had a drink about 2 weeks before I left.

While in Zim, I consumed a lot of water, often mixed with G-2 (low calorie Gatorade). My guess is about 1.5 gallons daily.

The day of the flight, I had 3-4 bottles of water before I left Zim. I had a couple while in OR Tambo. I had 2 bottles of Powerade on the flight and at least 1 bottle of water, maybe more.

I know I slowed down because I was getting up to pee a lot.

Do you still think it is dehydration?

All I know is that is was a miserable day yesterday. I do not understand why it happens on the return and not on the way over. Personally, I think I consumed less fluids on the way over.

Thanks again!

Yes it is dehydration. AS I tried to explain over the low Na (hyponatremia) makes you pee more. Take NaCl pills next time and I am sure you will be ok.

Good Hunting
Carl Frederik

I agree with Carl - and the combination with jet lag. Water in its self is not enough - it is also minerals and salts that the body probably needs. In my first trip to Zim in October 2014 and up to 45 celsius heat during some days I and my son took some pills every morning and evening to replace the lack of minerals and salt. This I think made the day... In Europe we do not have the jet lag problem from Africa - but the salt and minerals are as imoportant.

Morten

quote:

Originally posted by Carl Frederik Nagell:
Larry

Those of us that are not acclimetized loose excessive salt with our sweat when exposed to very hot weather. Low NaCl levels makes it difficult to concentrate urin and worsens any dehydration. The air in a plane is very dry and fluid loss is above normal. On your way home your NaCL levels are low. Ypu are probably lightly dehydrated and the dry air does the rest.
Next time take salt tablets

Regards Carl Frederik (MD)

Just remember that Carl is a Doc - he knows !

Morten

The only time I feel like that is when I am exhausted.I do not mean being worn out from a single days activity but pushing my self for several days.When this happens food,rest and sleep brings me back to normal.Isn't this what we do when we go over-try to keep up with people 20 or 30 years younger than us for a two week period.

I had laugh when I read Saeed commenting about water and hunting at Chete. I assume this was with Roy Vincent as they alluded to their special, very wealthy client who always came in at the end of the season and cleaned up their left over quota. My first hunt was with the Vincents in September (hot) at Chete and Roy seemed to pride himself and his staff on not drinking water and implying that the clients were less than manly by drinking during the day. I had a spectacular hunt (as are all first hunts in Africa) and each morning we would take off with exactly one 16 oz. coke bottle of water in the morning just for me and none for the rest of the guys. By mid-morning on my first day we were out of water and I was as thirsty as i have ever been. When we got back to the truck I drank everything they had and wanted more. After that I did marginally better by hydrating before we left but they (I started hunting with Stephen Alexander and finished up with Alan) still insisted on just bringing the one bottle. I figured that was the standard and didn't complain. On ensuing hunts across Southern Africa, all the PHs had a tracker carrying extra water and were extremely conscientious about keeping everyone hydrated and I was never that desiccated during the hunt again.

Larry,

Think about this logically. All this talk about caffeine, electrolytes, hydration, etc., compare that to regime you have been on. No question that cannot be the issue. On the hand, I hear you say that you had not had a drink for two weeks prior to the trip and then for the entire time on the trip. Well there you have it. You have self diagnosed your own issue . . . you are suffering from severe alcohol depletion.

Bottoms up my friend.

Shootaway touched on this.

30 years ago a few of us would go deer hunting at +8,000' elevation, and a friend of mine would get Ill every time. Very similar to what you describe. We all had different opinions on the cause but he would feel better as soon as he got home. After a few years I was at thanksgiving dinner and mentioned it to family and my grandmother quietly said "He's got a bad tooth". Now my grandmother was a master of practical medicine as she came to California as a child via wagon and was raised a family during the depression. He continued to have trouble and all the doctors could not figure it out. Two years later he had a tooth ache and the dentist removed a tooth. Never Ill again.

It appears that the tooth was poisoning him and would flare up at altitude.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Larry,

Think about this logically. All this talk about caffeine, electrolytes, hydration, etc., compare that to regime you have been on. No question that cannot be the issue. On the hand, I hear you say that you had not had a drink for two weeks prior to the trip and then for the entire time on the trip. Well there you have it. You have self diagnosed your own issue . . . you are suffering from severe alcohol depletion.

Bottoms up my friend.

Yes - a much better explanation than salts and minerals


Cognac - the best medicin that does'nt help according to my doctor


Morten

I have thought about this long and hard.

I have made 24 trips . This has never happened on the way over. It is always on the way back. As far as I can recall, it has started when I go in the really hot time of the year.

In spite of drinking 1.5- 2 gallons of water a day, often including a package of G-2,perhaps perhaps there is some cumulative loss of hydration that is catching up to me. I know that I am losing a ton of electrolytes as I can taste them when I somehow manage to get sweat in my mouth. Perhaps water consumption on the plane is not making up for this.

I know it is not caffeine. I never drink coffee or tea and only extremely rarely drink a soft drink. Alcohol was also not an issue.

Morten, my wife is also a doctor (hand surgeon). She also thinks dehydration.

I am wondering if I need something other than G-2 to assist in replacing the lost electrolytes.