Shawn,

I am at a loss here, I am asking a simple question, and you keep going round and round in circles trying to avoid answering.

Here it is:

Have you got permission from the client to post photos of his animals with Mark alone?

I understand you are not posting the clients pictures before you get his permission.

But, do you have his permission to post his photos with only Mark?

Saeed,

I do not know how to make this more clear to you but I will try. As I have said, “I only have permission to release what I have shown.” Said another way, I do have permission to release what I have shown.

Let me do a cut and paste for you as I feel perhaps something must be getting lost in the translation:

Have you got permission from the client to post photos of his animals with Mark alone? Yes

I understand you are not posting the clients pictures before you get his permission.
But, do you have his permission to post his photos with only Mark? Yes

Shawn

Hi Saeed,

let me ask you two simple questions:

FIRST
We have very, very often here people witch post pictures from:
- other hunts
- other photographers
- trophys from other hunter
- "older" pictures in the net

We have that nearly in every thread here. I llok 2 minutes before in the hunting reports, there are many pictures, e. g. trophys from other peoples.

SECOND
We have here many (well spoken, adyoucated, great reputated) PHs, outfitter, authors, pp. in that forum.
Very often they show pictures from trophys witch are not their own. They show them allone with them..., and so on...

MY QUESTION PLEASE:
HOW OFTEN DID YOU ASK YOUR QUESTION -...DID YOU HAVE THE PERMISON...- TO THEM ???

Best wishes.

Bockhunter

Frank,

You are absolutely right.

I would have no problem any PH posting photos of himself with his clients animals.

Shawn is doing is basically plugging videos by Mark Sullivan - if it is Mark himself doing, it would not have mattered

At the saame time, Shawn was unwilling to post photos of the hunter who actually shot these animals.

He stated he had no permission from him as yet to post his photos, but he went ahead and posted Mark's.

And if Shawn had answerd my original question, we would not have had to drag this into several posts.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Frank,

You are absolutely right.

I would have no problem any PH posting photos of himself with his clients animals.

Shawn is doing is basically plugging videos by Mark Sullivan - if it is Mark himself doing, it would not have mattered

At the saame time, Shawn was unwilling to post photos of the hunter who actually shot these animals.

He stated he had no permission from him as yet to post his photos, but he went ahead and posted Mark's.

And if Shawn had answerd my original question, we would not have had to drag this into several posts.

Saeed,

To be clear I did not say I was unwilling to post my friends (the hunters) pictures that actually shot the animals nor did I say I did not have his permission to post his photos. These are his photos.

What I said in the thread, where I first posted his photos, is that I did not have permission to post his personal picture. This has nothing to do with his photos. Two different topics. Perhaps that is where you continue to be confused.

I later repeated that I did not have permission from my friend to post his personal picture. I also again repeated that I did not have permission to release his personal image without his affirmation and that I only had permission to release what I had shown.

To help clarify your continued queries I even went as far as to do a cut and paste to try to help make it clearer for you.

I do not know what else to do to help make it clearer for you. With regard to plugging videos for Mark, I stated in my initial post I was not promoting videos. The thread's topic should be self-explanatory.

Shawn

Shawn,

I just did a search on all your posts from the beginning of January this year until now.

The overwhelming number of them is plugging DVDs.

Try the search function, and see what I mean.

So please don't insult our intelligence and say you are not promoting videos.

I have no problem with that.

I don't see much difference between you and others who involved in the hunting field.

You are providing a product which related to hunting.

Which is fine here.

Just be upfront with it.

Hi Saaed,

thank you for your post.

I think:
"You measure with two different tapes", as we say in Germany.

I think too:
You are an great guy, you have great options and I regulary read and like your postings here...

On the othher side you have an irational hate of MS and in every post about him you search for "problem-reasons".

Everybody here in that forum can read this.

Sorry, I must say this on an professional base, not on an personal base: "Even if 10 people post good words about MS, even if we had some real facts, it doesnt take long and you come with some fancy storys like -a sister of an good friend of me had heard that her long gone great grandfahter has tought...-

But:
I think we had the facts about MS clearly written here, e. g. Cal and Dave has given first hand statements.

Later in this year we will have some more...

Best wishes.

Frank

Bloody hell, we have professional doctors now telling us that disagreeing with Mark Sullivan's silly antics is a medical problem!

So everyone here who agrees with that Mark Sullivan is nothing but a wannabe Hollywood showman, playing his game in Africa pretending to be a professional hunter.

Frank, are you some sort of a brain doctor who is able to diagnose all of us who disagree with your love of Mark Sullivan that we are lacking any sort of common sense?

(?...”Just be up front with it.”)
This thread is about Dave Fulson filming with Mark Sullivan in 1993 from a videographer’s perspective. The idea is to learn more about Mark Sullivan based on facts from others rather than just my personal experiences hunting and filming with him. I thought Dave might have some interesting stories to tell. I also asked for others with experiences filming to add their stories too.

You may not be aware but there are some individuals who are blinded by their emotional mood swings trying to spread rumors and malcontent about Mark Sullivan rather than sharing factual information. It has even occurred here on AR.

Saeed, I promote many products, companies, as well as exemplary individuals internationally, Heym, Game Frontiers of Tanzania, professional hunters I support or have hunted with personally, Safari Classics Productions, Nitro Express Safaris, Mark Sullivan, Ivan Carter, Electronic Shooters Protection, Pilla Sport eyewear for hunting, Kynoch products, I can go on and on.

We are all multidimensional and hopefully willing to grow through shared experiences and information. I am really not interested in sparring with you emotively so I will pass the baton to those more willing to engage in such activities with you. I do value your experiences and opinions on something, I am sure, but we seem to be on opposite ends of reality on Mark Sullivan mate. I prefer to deal in factual information and not simply emotions.

You are entitled to your opinion and may continue to shout it from the highest thread. With your permission, perhaps we can allow the thread to return to its intended purpose.


Cheers,
Shawn

quote:

Originally posted by PD999:
Why-o-why-o-why......

You were right all along. I should have listened.

I've purchased some items from Shawn (some that I would not have been able to acquire without his kindness), and not only does he provide excellent service to Australia, but in the process he has become a friend. So I have been more than happy to let him share some of my hunting photos with his other friends and clients around the world. And he has always specifically asked if it has been alright to do-so for each photo. He's that kind of bloke, and has good manners. He lives the motto: "Speak softly and carry a big rifle" in the field and on the forum.

Hi Saeed,

thank you for your post.

You have written:

quote:

Bloody hell, we have professional doctors now telling us that disagreeing with Mark Sullivan's silly antics is a medical problem!

I dont have written that.
And, if you read this now again, you maybe have an medical problem and I think it is in your eyes than.

Best wishes.

Frank

Glad to see everyone having a sense of humour.

quote:

Originally posted by ExpressYourself:
hunting.







I hope you all enjoy the pictures. If I hear from Russ before I head off to Europe I will post something with him as well.

My question is, If you saw these pictures without any explanation as to who shot these animals, don't you think you would assume they were shot by the man in the pictures?

In my opinion these pictures were made to imply just that opinion. If you will look at the pictures in at least 90% of Marks advertizments you rarely see picture of the actual client, only Mark. IMO that is deceitful, and is done purposely to misslead!

.................................................................

Just when you thought it had stopped, yet more Mark Sullivan hating

The Mark Sullivan hater/s have appeared they will find fault no matter what.Pure jealousy,as always All the Best to Mark Sullivan, Great American,Great PH........

quote:

In my opinion these pictures were made to imply just that opinion. If you will look at the pictures in at least 90% of Marks advertizments you rarely see picture of the actual client, only Mark. IMO that is deceitful, and is done purposely to misslead!

Mac,

What a load of codswallop. Many PH's are individually photographed with clients trophies. These are used for advertising, marketing and indeed self promotion.

If you want to bash Mark for his style of hunting and his actions on film then so be it but you can hardly condemn a bloke who wants a photo with 'his' hard one trophy.

I would like someone to tell me which PH they know that shoots as many of his clients animals as Mark Sullivan does.

Saeed your the main rumour culprit here.Someone with class would post one opinion about a PH or outfitter that they didnt care for say what they have to say and then let it go,you stated your opinion and its noted.The Mark Sullivan haters must have major wood when they see a new thread about Mark Sullivan.

quote:

Originally posted by capebuf:
Saeed your the main rumour culprit here.Someone with class would post one opinion about a PH or outfitter that they didnt care for say what they have to say and then let it go,you stated your opinion and its noted.The Mark Sullivan haters must have major wood when they see a new thread about Mark Sullivan.

I do not like Mark Sullivan's way of hunting one little bit.

In fact, as far as I am concerned, Mark Sullivan is as far removed from being a professional hunter as can be.

You like his methods, that is your choice.

As you seem to classify anyone who does not agree with Mark's methods as his "haters". Then you must be one of "lovers!"

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

Mac,

What a load of codswallop. Many PH's are individually photographed with clients trophies. These are used for advertising, marketing and indeed self promotion.

If you want to bash Mark for his style of hunting and his actions on film then so be it but you can hardly condemn a bloke who wants a photo with 'his' hard one trophy.

Andrew I'm sorry you think I'm being unfair to Mark in this case but that is my opinion of his motives, and that opinion here in this thread seems to be at odds with most here, for that being the case I will refrain from post here in future. The field is open all other opinions but it seems not everyone's opinion has any value!

So gentlemen I bid you and Mark Sullivan adieu but my opinion will not change on this suject!

.................................................................BYE!

Saeed thats Correct I and many,many others like Mark Sullivan as a Great American and a PH.Saeed do you see me and some others ever posting on your threads and giving opinions about your topics,that should say something....

quote:

Many PH's are individually photographed with clients trophies. These are used for advertising, marketing and indeed self promotion

That is an fact.
I can show you here in the AR-Forum, in 5 Minutes, over 10 examples.

It is absolutly gracy what "arguments" the "MS-haters" post here...

Mac:
I just noticed you are departing this thread. May I ask why you did not comment on my thread of Mark's videos? Several times I mentioned your comments of Mark's "stupid habit" of kicking dirt at a hippo and wanted you to reply as to the use of the word "Habit." I'm sorry to see you go but I would enjoy a reply to my question as the incident you referred to only happened once in the 16 years the videos covered. Certainly not a "habit" by any stretch of the imagination.

Saeed: In my thread on the videos I believe you stated Mark shot a drugged lion? May I ask how you know the lion was drugged? Was it in his food, injected, etc.? And Saeed thanks for your dvds. I will view them within the next few days.

My point is when anyone (of either side of this debate) strays from facts and presents opinions as facts, distortion of the entire spectrum is not too far away.
Cheers,
Cal

PS. In most if not all of my hunts some of the pics taken of just the PH and my critter(s) for his album and promotion. Of course, others are with me, all the staff, etc... Mark sent me the photo of the elephant for my website and pointed out it was a client's animal. I see no problem with this as MS is (and has never) stated it is "his" animal.

The Mark Sullivan haters here give the ani-hunting people more power,what a complete shame.

quote:

Originally posted by capebuf:
Saeed thats Correct I and many,many others like Mark Sullivan as a Great American and a PH.Saeed do you see me and some others ever posting on your threads and giving opinions about your topics,that should say something....

No one is forcing you to post on my threads, or any other thread.

In fact, no one is forcing you post here at all.

Why don't you start your own website and glorify your hero to your hearts delight.

I promise not to go there and ruin your hero's reputation.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Mac:
I just noticed you are departing this thread. May I ask why you did not comment on my thread of Mark's videos? Several times I mentioned your comments of Mark's "stupid habit" of kicking dirt at a hippo and wanted you to reply as to the use of the word "Habit." I'm sorry to see you go but I would enjoy a reply to my question as the incident you referred to only happened once in the 16 years the videos covered. Certainly not a "habit" by any stretch of the imagination.

Saeed: In my thread on the videos I believe you stated Mark shot a drugged lion? May I ask how you know the lion was drugged? Was it in his food, injected, etc.? And Saeed thanks for your dvds. I will view them within the next few days.

My point is when anyone (of either side of this debate) strays from facts and presents opinions as facts, distortion of the entire spectrum is not too far away.
Cheers,
Cal

PS. In most if not all of my hunts some of the pics taken of just the PH and my critter(s) for his album and promotion. Of course, others are with me, all the staff, etc... Mark sent me the photo of the elephant for my website and pointed out it was a client's animal. I see no problem with this as MS is (and has never) stated it is "his" animal.

Cal,

I have no idea if that lion was drugged.

I assumed any lion transported from his small farm where he is raised to an area where he is to be shot, is drugged and moved.

Anyway, I have no objection to people shooting raised lions. But I would not classify it as "hunting".

I hope you enjoy our videos.

Saeed:
Thank you for an honest and gentlemanly reply. No, no one knows if the lion was drugged and, until proof is given, it should not be stated. Again, thanks for both the dvds and the direct and honest reply to my question.
Now, I hope the same from Mac.
Good day to you.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by fairgame:

Mac,

What a load of codswallop. Many PH's are individually photographed with clients trophies. These are used for advertising, marketing and indeed self promotion.

If you want to bash Mark for his style of hunting and his actions on film then so be it but you can hardly condemn a bloke who wants a photo with 'his' hard one trophy.

Andrew I'm sorry you think I'm being unfair to Mark in this case but that is my opinion of his motives, and that opinion here in this thread seems to be at odds with most here, for that being the case I will refrain from post here in future. The field is open all other opinions but it seems not everyone's opinion has any value!

So gentlemen I bid you and Mark Sullivan adieu but my opinion will not change on this suject!


Mac,

Not asking you to change your opinion. This is a forum mate and your opinions are as valued as any other. Neither am I a Sullivan fan.

Cheers

Andrew

Saeed you dont get it,I dont post on any of your threads because of my opinion of you,your replies are pure childish its plain as day.Your rumours and nonfacts of Mark Sullivan is pure slander.I will stand up for some that is being slandered.

I'd like to add that the constant Mark Sullivan hating is really detracting from the atmosphere here.

AR is a great resource and community that is being spoiled by a handful of opinionated people - unfortunately including the forum owner - who enjoy criticising or ridiculing Mark at every single opportunity.

It's very tiresome so please, just let it go.

Maximus,your 100% right,these haters have nothing better to do, they look extremely foolish/childish/classless.Its a total shame....

I admire Mark Sullivan.

In all my time on AR one thing is certain: There is no more polarizing figure. The reason is dependent upon which side of the argument you line up. The way I see it, those who like Mark view him as a character out of another time: a danger-seeking iconoclast, contemptuous of both convention and public opinion. He hunts the way he wants to hunt, not how SCI, DSC, or the members of AR expect him to hunt. That he kicks sand in the face of those who would change him - like he does to a charge-reluctant hippo - is all the more infuriating to this angry collective that expects lock-step compliance with their way of hunting.

I admire Mark Sullivan and would love to hunt with him one day (if only my finances would allow). Do I want him to shoot my animals? No, absolutely not - unless of course I screwed up the shot and we were at risk of losing one. But from everything I've read and heard from those who have actually hunted with Mark he only backs up quickly when his client asks him to! How on earth can he be criticized for that? I've never required a backup shot (yet), however I'm sure that unless it was required, Mark wouldn't provide one. But for otherwise reasonable folks on AR to accuse him of shooting other peoples game (and I'll admit I've thought the same thing in the past) simply belies the facts.

More outrageous still are the number of Mark Sullivan critics who decry his hunting 'ethics' who, 1) admit - nay, brag - to having never seen his videos; and who on the other hand, 2) rail against those who attempt to impose their ethics over other hunters with whom they disagree. Talk about hypcritical ...

What I would want from a hunt with Mark is the opportunity to approach dangerous game in a way that strips away the layer-upon-layer of self- and government-imposed safety nets that suffocate our workaday existence, and instead reduce a hunt down to something far more elemental: Hunting dangerous game where the danger is real and not theoretical. No scope. No sniper rifle. Just good fieldcraft, a double rifle, and an industrial dose of nerve.

Yes, I can hear spittle-specked computer keys feverishly, angrily clicking away, ready to pillory, "But that's not the way hunting's done", "hunting is not an extreme sport", "only an idiot deliberately courts danger", "people like you damage our sport", and so on. We've heard it all before, right?

But here's the deal guys: Hunting is not a team sport and, apart from game laws, the rules are pretty much up to us. Is hunting big game with a pistol, or bow and arrow, or spear a good idea? Not in my eyes, but then that's not for me to decide. Is letting a just-shot Cape buffalo stiffen up or 'get sick' before following up any worse than immediately approaching that same creature in a manner intended to provoke a charge? Not in my eyes, but that's not for you to decide.

When we see someone base-jump off some humongous skyscraper, or summit K2 without oxygen, or shoot a charging buffalo at ten paces, after we catch our breath our inclination is to say, "that guy is nuts". Our awe is tempered with resentment, as we think, "god, I wish I could do that". The truth as I see it is that Mark Sullivan hunts the way many of us wish we could hunt, but don't.

What Mark does takes swagger and bravado and nerve and bluster and guts; Hell, he deliberately seeks out danger when its avoidance is readily at hand! Who does that anymore? And like other iconoclasts, he doesn't shy away or retreat when savaged by his detractors - and iconoclasts have lots of those. Instead, he plows ahead, year after year, confident in his approach and the rightness of his chosen path. And in the face of vicious and unrelenting attacks, he quietly mutters, "fuck you all" and continues hunting his way.

Like I said, I admire Mark Sullivan.

Well I am glad to see that things have calmed down nicely after I called it a night early this morning.

BenKK-Thanks Mate, very kind of you.

DR. FM-I thought your degree was in Engineering? Perhaps I was wrong. I will talk to you about a pain in the neck that I have when I come see you during the upcoming Heym Challenge II in Germany on April 20-21st!

MacD37-I always have enjoyed much of your knowledge base but we disagree on the topic of Mark Sullivan. We also disagree on what the photos depicting Mark’s client’s trophies and Mark’s hard work represent. I believe you are off-base on this and are continuing to be guided by your personal dislike of Mark. You are always welcome on my threads to voice your opinions along with reasonable and appropriate disagreement so I do hope you come back and offer such.

Saeed-What more is there to say? You again state/imply Mark shooting client’s animals and also shooting more than any other PH which was soundly disproved by information on another thread by Cal Pappas (Mark Sullivan—First 10 Films, 1990-2006), in which you participated.

The average number of shots by Mark on his videos spanning 10 years was 0.87 and his shots were fired after a client shot. Some of these shots were also shot on the same animal. Some of these animals were on Mark’s solo hunts which actually would make the ratio even lower.

It shook out that Mark shot at 37of 83 animals for a variety of reasons, back-up shots, client out of ammo, client trying to fire on a discharged round, etc. All-in-all, a bit more than 1/3 of the time mathematically. Anyone who has hunted dangerous game knows that your insinuation is unfounded.

I understand that emotions run high for you on any MS topic but perhaps we can try to be factual and honest if debate is to occur.

Cal pappas-You are always a gentleman and work to pull people back to the facts of a discussion and away from the personal non-factual based rants. I do appreciate your desire to do so. Cheers mate.

Maximus Brutus-Looking forward to meeting you in Germany this year during the Heym Challenge II. We will have a fantastic time during one of the best international celebrations of great rifles, hunting, shooting competition, wildlife conservation, and most importantly camaraderie and friendship! Oh and of course great German cuisine by a gracious host.

KPete-Worth repeating: What I would want from a hunt with Mark is the opportunity to approach dangerous game in a way that strips away the layer-upon-layer of self- and government-imposed safety nets that suffocate our workaday existence, and instead reduce a hunt down to something far more elemental: Hunting dangerous game where the danger is real and not theoretical. No scope. No sniper rifle. Just good fieldcraft, a double rifle, and an industrial dose of nerve.

What Mark does takes swagger and bravado and nerve and bluster and guts; Hell, he deliberately seeks out danger when its avoidance is readily at hand! Who does that anymore? And like other iconoclasts, he doesn't shy away or retreat when savaged by his detractors - and iconoclasts have lots of those. Instead, he plows ahead, year after year, confident in his approach and the rightness of his chosen path. And in the face of vicious and unrelenting attacks, he quietly mutters, "fuck you all" and continues hunting his way. Nicely said.

Shawn

Kim,

My posts tend to be much more long winded whereas you have the ability to cut through the crap and get right to the heart of the matter. I find your comments to be spot on, once again.

Honestly, I started out being indifferent to Sullivan and simply objected to the obvious false statements being made against him, simply to disparage him. I'm finding that I actually like him more and more each day, and that really had less to do with his hunting techniques than his character as a man.

Despite all the hate, distortions, and vitriole spewed on this forum, lead by Saeed himself, Mark came here one time and one time only in an attempt to explain his postions and why he does things the way he does. He never took up an argument with anyone who disagreed. He simply let it be known what he stands for, and has allowed others to have their opinions without ridicule.

IMO, there is much honor in that and I'm going to say it right here and now, I respect that! I don't respect the lies, misrepresentations, and false statements made simply in an attempt to disparage them man. If you want to convince me that I shouldn't associate with someone due to a lack of character, firstly, I'll need to see that lack of character for my self, and secondly, you'll need to convince me with the truth, not lies!

So now we've found a new avenue to distort intent with concerning Mark Sullivan. Now it's the trophy picture taken with only the PH in the frame with the animal. This is out of the ordinary? Something that only Sullivan does to promote the animals he has successfully guided his clients to? Well, if that is truly the case, how do you explains these:

Rich Tabor, my PH who guided me to this great tom leopard:



Bruce Cronje and his team who guided me to this leopard in 2008:



Blake Wilhelmi, my PH who guided me to this great lion:



Hell, even the cameraman poses with trophies to commemorate the work he did participating in the hunt. This is Ray Buchanon with my lion:



Like it or not, the safari industry is a business for the professionals involved. Inorder to continue drawing business, they need to promote themselves and their services. I have absolutely zero problem with them doing so. In fact, I've been proud to let them use pics of the animals they guided me to for this purpose. After all, without their hard work and knowledge of the animals and areas hunted, none of us would have been in the pictures.

Hatred and jealously is one of the quickest ways I know of for a man to begin loosing his credibility. Lots of that going round here lately.

Well said Todd

Todd,nicely said,the haters can only hate,distort,slander someone for so long until its really apparent that its all lies and jealousy,it catches up with them.Ive had many conversations with Mark and he is just a stand-up great guy.Its a shame that some would go that far to slander someone.

Discussing MS here is futile. Neither side will be convinced that there is any merit to what the opposite has to say.