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There has been a lot of press coverage on an international level regarding the land issue in South Africa over the last few weeks. Garry Kelly Safaris would like to assure all of our clients that there is no need for concern or panic. We urge all our clients to please ignore sensationalism regarding the press news. Below are the facts as written by one of the South African professional hunting associations - the Custodians of Professional Hunting and Conservation of SA. Hopefully these facts will shed some light on the issues in our country: THE SOUTH AFRICAN LAND ISSUE OF 2018 Since the African National Congress held it's national executive committee meeting in December 2017, a new leader was elected namely, Cyril Rhamaphosa. There is an imminent sense of hope growing in South Africa that we can reverse the ills of the past 8 years and move forward with the building of our great Country. Land is an issue that has caused the most debate, anger, frustration, fear, uncertainty, hope and a series of other emotions in South African people. Land will remain a political issue for many years to come. President Cyril Rhamaphosa has announced that he will support and follow on the "land expropriation without compensation". Please be aware that this does not mean it is law, nor does it mean it will ever become legislated! It also does not specify white-owned farms. The tabled motion is for ALL property, including our urban properties. In the same breath, our President has stated the following: •Food production and security must be preserved •It is critical for South Africans to engage in and come up with proposals on the matter going forward •The burning issue of land reform must be handled with care •This will not be a "smash and grab" situation "we will not allow it" (in reference to the situation in Zimbabwe) In addition, there are processes to be followed. There will be public hearings held so that all parties can contribute their inputs & recommendations, there will be further debates in parliament. Whatever is decided upon will have to be tested up against the South African constitution, which is still one of the best in the world. The "Bill of Rights" is enshrined in the South African constitution and our courts have maintained their integrity. To date, we have no reason to doubt that our Courts of Law will continue to protect all South African citizens & their rights! Please note that there is much-unused land in the hands of the state. Some of this land is likely to be distributed. Municipalities hold a fair amount of land that can be used for housing and large tracts of non utilized state land is still held in trusts by "chiefs". These are just some simple examples of land that can be utilized for the above purpose and responsibly distributed for proper use. It is highly unlikely that productive commercial land will be targeted. Let us all continue to work towards creating a unified and constructive approach to an issue that must be addressed in a manner that is positive. We should be mindful not to plant negative seeds of distrust and fear through assumption. The latter will be far more damaging to our industry, our wildlife and all our people of South Africa. MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | ||
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Tell that to Malema and his band of merry men. "... our Courts of Law will continue to protect all South African citizens and their rights". In 2017 alone what protection did 70+ dead farmers get and what about preventing the 600+ attacks on farmsteads? | |||
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With all due respect Mr. Young speaks as one with a clearly vested interest in maintaining an appearance of political stability in South Africa. Equally clearly there is significant potential for political instability in the country. One year from now the direction of South African politics and stability should be quite evident. In the meantime actual actions taken provide a much better idea of that direction than anything anyone says or writes. The real question is where does an interested party not resident in South Africa get current and accurate information as to what is really happening? | |||
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Gown is it Namibia seems to be the most stable country for hunting in Southern Africa? What have they done differently? I meant to be DSC Member...bad typing skills. Marcus Cady DRSS | |||
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Namibia is not nearly as far down the road as RSA. But they are on the same road and will get there eventually. Now is a great time to hunt Namibia. | |||
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Guys, It's an e-mail blast from a long standing safari operator in RSA. I thought some might be interested as I've been asked what I know about the land issue by several members. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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Namibia is about the size of Texas and Oklahoma combined, but with only 2.6 million in population. As their population grows, so will their problems. Go Duke!! | |||
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Every time I pack I wonder, will this be my last trip to Africa? Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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My apologies to Mr. Young...I missed the reference to the actual author of the note in question. My comments however remain as written as the actual author clearly has the vested interest noted. | |||
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Thank you for posting it Mark. Still, South Africa has taken a turn to quite a number of undesirable paths. Anyone who does not take that into consideration when choosing a hunting destination is not doing himself any favors. | |||
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I quite agree, we are on our way to have to make the first one of many less desireable choices about the way forward. On the bright side; the road on which we are now, as well as most of the roads on which we can land after making a first choice, are all quite wide enough to easily make a "U"-turn and go back some way to get onto another road to the future. But it is enevitable: The future is coming and will be on us all very soon. What will it likely hold for an overseas based visiting trophy hunter who chooses to hunt in South Africa? I really do not think that the "land issue" per se will in any great way affect the wonderful value for money spent experience such a visiting hunter is likely to enjoy in our (slightly troubled) country. If anyone is of a diametrically opposite opinion, please motivate with some examples why my assessment is so wrong! Andrew McLaren Professional Hunter and Hunting Outfitter since 1974. http://www.mclarensafaris.com The home page to go to for custom planning of ethical and affordable hunting of plains game in South Africa! Enquire about any South African hunting directly from andrew@mclarensafaris.com After a few years of participation on forums, I have learned that: One can cure: Lack of knowledge – by instruction. Lack of skills – by practice. Lack of experience – by time doing it. One cannot cure: Stupidity – nothing helps! Anti hunting sentiments – nothing helps! Put-‘n-Take Outfitters – money rules! My very long ago ancestors needed and loved to eat meat. Today I still hunt! | |||
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I'm heading to Namibia in June with my daughter. My previous 4 trips have been to RSA. RSA is a beautiful country with many great people. As with any set of politicians they garner votes by taking from one and giving from another. In the United States it's our unsustainable borrowing meant to keep everyone happy. "Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | |||
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It is not just South Africa but the entire Continent. They would try to do the same here in the US if they had the majority vote and the financial support of the Chinese. Imagine RSA with no white farmer! Have you seen the size of the Chinese Embassy on the N4 outside of Johannesburg. Google the number of Chinese government agencies in South Africa. They have billions of people to feed and not enough natural resources. America and Great Britian will stand by and do nothing while they rape that country. It is all we can do to protect our Asia-Pacific alliances. | |||
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They did do it in Hawaii and the Supreme Court upheld the forced land repression scheme. The case use to be published in all the Property Law casebooks as part of the Eminent Domain section. Now that case has been replaced in the casebooks with the Connecticut private developer fiscco that happened when I was in high school. | |||
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I just came back from SA. Certainly there are problems but the picture is a mixed one. People are generally happy but poverty seems to be increasing. More struggling whites. More taxi, political, gang, crime and farm killings. Illegal land occupation is occurring but at least this last week the police arrested illegal land occupiers but for how long? There is some discussion that land grab by the state is legal under the current constitution but later in April there will be a report. Final recommendation to parliament will be in August. As far as hunting , there is a trend in the media of anti hunting, needless to say ironical, since most love biltong / jerky and venison. The debate even in SA continues about captive lion breeding and bone export, mostly negative. Tourism is now SA s second most important job creator but it s not necessarily tourist friendly. Certainly to collect trophy specimens is not difficult but true wild free chase hunts are limited mostly to greater Kruger areas. Avoid road travel as much as possible. Beware of scams. | |||
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I have received that same message from two other South African outfitters so far.... I think with all the negative news coming out of SA bookings are way down. Remember when zim was having their troubles...... . | |||
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Last year 356 USA hunters responded to a poll after their hunts in South Africa. Here are some interesting facts from this poll and overall money figures: USD166 million was spent by US hunters in South Africa in 2017. 95% hunters said they certainly will return - the reason being a) the numbers of game, b) the quality of the hunt they enjoyed, c) the experience, d) the low cost of hunting a large number of species. 90% hunters said they had read bad press about safety and security - even existing at Johannesburg Airport - on State Dept sites. Not a single respondent mentioned any such experience in real life. South Africa must be the cheapest hunting destination in the world and my own experience as a guide in Wyoming and Colorado is that it is about 20% of the cost for out of state hunters visiting those two states. Bringing your rifles into the country is a walk in the park. I shall not even attempt the bureaucratic nightmare to take a rifle from here to hunt in my other homeland (Colorado). The exceptional PH is that one who uses his exceptional knowledge and experience to prevent situations where he needs to display his exceptional shooting skill to save your life. | |||
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Sir, I would have to strongly disagree with you about bringing the rifles into the country. It is a royal pain in the backside as far as I am concerned. I have hunted expensively all over the world and I am struggling to think of one that is more difficult than the RSA other than perhaps Argentina. The list of issues is long. Totally disorganized. They don't accept valid 4457 forms that are accepted in the US and other countries. Seeking bribes. The list goes on. | |||
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Good day to you Larry, Sorry to learn of your unpleasant experience. When did this very uncommon occurrence happen to you at Johannesburg Airport? We accept many hunters from all over the world and see many others passing through. I have yet to experience a gun customs process that will take longer than 10 minutes where the outfitter had done his work properly. Bribes? I have never heard of it at Johannesburg. Every Delta Airlines flight every day carries on average 12 US hunters and I have yet to see any of the issues you mention. There was a time when the US form 4457 had a lapsed validity date on it and I would like to see the customs bureaucrat anywhere in the world who will accept an official document from another bureaucratic institution which clearly states that it is not valid anymore...  On your next hunt do insist that you are issued a valid 4457 for declaration of assets ownership.The exceptional PH is that one who uses his exceptional knowledge and experience to prevent situations where he needs to display his exceptional shooting skill to save your life. | |||
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April fools day is tomorrow, but thanks for the laugh. Second outfitter on here that doesn't know about this posting here recent. Must be living under a rock. First time I got hit was both ends of first trip, 2005. Last time? October of 2017. Got in the guys face and told him to fuck off. The one thing I can count on when dealing with guns in J'berg; someone will put their hand out. | |||
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Bullet- Thinking you must go to the airport with your rose colored glasses on. Not my experience at all. Nor the experience of many who have traveled to RSA for years and are regular posters here. Are you with the JoBerg Chamber of Commerce? | |||
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Sorry mate, but a lot of you mentioned is just plain bullshit! South Africa has started making life difficult for hunters years ago. I also understand that a parent traveling with his own minor needs a letter of consent from his wife or the wife from her husband. When most people travel for pleasure - as hunters do, they wish to have as little hassle as possible. Why do yiu think there are so many meet and greet services in South Africa? We have been going to Zimbabwe and Tanzania. Never required their services, and we are normally out of the airport in minutes. I personally know several people passing through Joberg and were hassled for money. Frankly, with all the silly goings on in South Africa, it is not on my list to hunt in. | |||
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Take your own needle and thread to sew all your luggage back up. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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Bullet Behaviour's comments are absolute classics for someone with a vested interest to protect. In this case a continuing stream of hunters from other countries. One of the true values of the Accurate Reloading website is the opportunity to get multiple sides of issues from folks with various viewpoints and levels of experience. | |||
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I will relate one experience from Oliver Tambo Airport in 2003. When checking in for my flight home, one of the policemen who was checking my rifle told me in exactly this sort of way that if I did not tip them my rifle might not make my flight. As he said this a sign behind him said no tipping was permitted. On that trip, checking my rifle through SA customs on the way in took over four hours. It has since gotten a bit better. In 2007, the process took only 90 minutes. The last trip over in 2011, we used a meed and greet service and it took about twenty minutes. Don't tell me that this sort of extortion doesn't go on. It does, and I've experienced it. The process in Namibia was much more accomodating to a visiting hunter. Most of my money I spent on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted | |||
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I to guide hunters in SA, we have had very little trouble with hunters & their firearms at the Airport if the paper work is correct & some times even when it is not correct we have worked it out & no Bribe was needed ! Not saying a bribe may not have been excepted or speed up the process, never tried & we don't ! It is still a awesome country ! | |||
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How often to we hear of this sort of thing in peaceful South Africa? Notice the stupid excuses the tourist board is making? | |||
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Good evening sir. Surely you jest. This happens every single time I go through there. The last time was 4 times in July of 2017. I got hit up for bribes 3 different times in a single entrance. 10 minutes? Not for what I could see. There was dozens of people standing around waiting in a disorganized mass. You have a serious misunderstanding of the 4457 and what the dates mean. I can and do routinely use 4457 forms obtained in the 90’s. I have done it this year. AR is pretty good at sorting out BS. It will be interesting to see just how many believe you. I can tell you that I do not. | |||
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What do hunters from countries that do not issue licenses for specific firearms? Why do we need an invitation from the outfitter. I have heard so many horrible and totally distasteful stories from people going to South Africa or transiting the country. A friend borrowed a cell phone from me to take to South Africa, because he had let his at home in the UK. As soon as he arrived - he was not hunting, he was looking to buy a house in Cape Town - he sent me a message saying what a wonderful country it is and how much he is looking forward to spending more time there. Three days later his daughter calls, telling me that her parents were robbed, in daytime, and would I please cancel the cell phone account. Needless to say, they changed their mind, and went back home. South Africa is a wonderful country. It just needs someone with some intelligence to run it. Just trying to sugar over the horrible changes is not going to work on AR | |||
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I reread our new friends comments. He clearly stated that he has NEVER heard of a bribe in Johannesburg. Well my AR friends, the mystery of whether there is life elsewhere in the universe has just been solved. Our new friend must be from another planet to have never heard of a bribe in Johannesburg. I wonder if I am now eligible for the Nobel prize.  | |||
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It will be interesting to see if we ever hear from Bullet Behaviour again on this website. My guess is probably not. | |||
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Saeed, we get a export letter from customs that lets us re-import at no change & for SA authority's, seems to work ! Funny I have had more trouble taking firearms to the US than all my African trips, bar Kenya lol ! But I'm thinking I may have been lucky by what I have been reading ? | |||
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I still like SA, I spent a couple days in J'berg on purpose in Oct (!), had a good time meeting up with some folks and seeing a bit of town. I'm familiar with issues there and will go again as long as it doesn't melt down. But I can't believe outfitters are unaware of what clients put up with there, can they? It has been on these websites for years and years. I shouldn't need a PH or gun service to walk me from ticketing to SAPS to drop off a gun without being threatened with my rifle case going missing after leaving it, ridiculous. | |||
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I think the new member just posted his April Fools joke and it's day early for those of us in the USA. Bribes, no just "tips." | |||
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I guess I'm just lucky......been through joburg 9 times since 09, never been asked for a bribe once. SAPS in Jouberg has been professional every time. Got asked for a bribe in PE once, told them no thanks. SA may be swirling the drain, but in my experience it's much more of a pain getting guns and ammo into zim. They gotta touch and count every piece of ammo and they can't count....... Getting back into the US with my rifles in Atlanta takes much longer than getting through SAPS in SA...... Ridiculous. . | |||
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Several years ago my son was was just terminating his RYA course in Cape Town on 3 month visa. Due to the exams schedule, was obliged to squeeze it down to the last day to conclude one of several final exams and fate had it that the internal flight to Jo-burg was delayed by several hours and which resulted in missing his flight to Dar. The Immigration officer at Jo-Burg informed him that by overstaying his visa he had committed an offence that would see him getting an automatic ban from re-entering the country for a whole year (he had 2 more exams to take in 4 months time). The long and the short of the story is that he had to part with $50 as a fee to justify that this delay was due "unforeseen circumstances". His second trip went without a hitch and was granted a visa on arrival without the bat of an eyelid which suggests there was no comment entered in the records of his previous trip. | |||
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Despite being a Colorado resident with business assets in Colorado I once got arrested and deported back to SA because six years previously I overstayed my six months visa allowance by one day because United Airlines at that time had cancelled their domestic connection; I departed the following day when United re-booked me on other flights to London and Johannesburg. (shortened to Jo'burg not Joberg. I explained it on departure at the time but it was nevertheless flagged. Ridiculous. Since my first entry into the USA on my business visa to my last 9 years later I have been harassed by TSA officials every single time on entry. Sincere advice by an immigration lawyer was to become an illegal immigrant and my way will be smooth. On firearms ease of entry into South Africa: Simply have your paperwork in place and it will be a 10 minute affair. Our clients and those of every outfitter we know never have any issues. Most of the rants here seem to be what was heard from ... 15 years ago in 2003 or whatever. South African authorities simply take a dim view of illegal firearms entering the country and therefore simply prove your ownership - and I like that - so please just have the paperwork correct and it will be a breeze. Inside the country you (and we!) have far greater freedom to move and use our firearms anywhere, anytime without any harassment by any LEO. Simply taking hunting rifles by road from Colorado to Illinois is such a PITA that it is ridiculous. Thousands of tourists (including hunters who spend more and more every year - now topping $160 million) from all over the world pass through customs and immigration every month and the polls on returning show that many of the rants here are hear-say or even just a venting of emotion not based on real experience, or on an isolated case. Look at the NRA advice to hunters regarding the Form 4495 and make sure yours does not have a lapsed validity date at the bottom. My clients going back to Atlanta and New York relate the issues they have back home for re-importing their hunting rifles into their own country. Ridiculous. The exceptional PH is that one who uses his exceptional knowledge and experience to prevent situations where he needs to display his exceptional shooting skill to save your life. | |||
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Zero problem bring the gun in country, because I used a service. However, turning in the gun for the domestic flight the lady in the SAPS office make it crystal clear in no uncertain terms she wanted a "tip" to insure that my gun made it to the plane, that was 2016. The From 4495 does not expire. That is not a validity date on the form. Thats just more BS from RSA, which is why their neighbor is taking way their hunters. They need to wake up. Let me make it more clear, IF I go back to RSA, my gun will stay home. I am not going to be shaken down again by SAPS or anyone else looking for their "tip." | |||
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And in the mean time life will go on and we will carry on welcoming our hunters and their rifles who are increasing in numbers year on year out of the US as well as Europe and all of them will have great hunts and great company and long lasting friendships will be founded and solidified. Game will increase both in numbers and quality due to our science of hunting and campfire moments will be had and the trophies will be as much in the memories as in the killing of a beautiful animal. The steak will be long forgotten but the sizzle will always be remembered each time the mounted trophy is viewed. The exceptional PH is that one who uses his exceptional knowledge and experience to prevent situations where he needs to display his exceptional shooting skill to save your life. | |||
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If you really believe that more hunters are going to South Africa, good luck to you! | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting FROM GARRY KELLY TODAY ON THE RSA LAND ISSUE
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