Ahhh... but my outfitter business model is not based on "belief". It is based on ethics, customer satisfaction, return business and growth rate. That is why I can offer hunts at 40% below the industry average for 90% of representative animals.

Life goes on and it is good to be alive and living in Africa - to carry my firearms wherever I want to carry them for legal purposes, to not be in fear of a gun grab, to see my grand children happy at school with no fear of weekly mass murder attacks, to hunt game that does not belong to or being managed by big brother but which belong to land owners on whose property it resides at any time; game numbers which are managed by our hunting organisations which were set up by professional hunters themselves. To enjoy wild nature because hunting is such a minute part of our outdoor activities even though it is satisfyingly good for the numbers of game and the finances of the industry.

This very forum has a section which is dedicated to reports by hunters that had been to South Africa - that section is a pleasure to read, by the way. Add to that the 20x higher numbers of tourists as hunters who come here for the sizzle of the steak and return on a yearly basis, many for having made friends with my folk at the rest camps in the game reserves and get invited for personal visits.

The moderator-belittling is noted. Is it the mission of this forum to dissuade hunters to come to South Africa? Maybe it should be stated as a sticky that the moderator is biased and not moderate.

quote:

Originally posted by BulletBehavior:
Ahhh... but my outfitter business model is not based on "belief". It is based on ethics, customer satisfaction, return business and growth rate. That is why I can offer hunts at 40% below the industry average for 90% of representative animals.

Life goes on and it is good to be alive and living in Africa - to carry my firearms wherever I want to carry them for legal purposes, to not be in fear of a gun grab, to see my grand children happy at school with no fear of weekly mass murder attacks, to hunt game that does not belong to or being managed by big brother but to land owners on whose property it resides at any time; game numbers which are managed by our hunting organisations which were set up by professional hunters themselves. To enjoy wild nature because hunting is such a minute part of our outdoor activities even though it is satisfyingly good for the numbers of game and the finances of the industry.

This very forum has a website which is dedicated to reports by hunters that had been to South Africa and that section is a pleasure to read. by the way. Add to that the 20x higher numbers of tourists as hunters who come here for the sizzle of the steak and return on a yearly basis for having made friends with my folk at the rest camps in the game reserves and get invited for personal visits.

The moderator belittling is noted. Is it the mission of this forum to dissuade hunters to come to South Africa? Maybe that should be stated as a sticky, then?

You will find this quite a gritty forum and many have expressed there displeasure in the past at the way they are treated when entering your country. Best you can do is for your organisations is to band together and enforce a more welcoming climate on entry. The amount of stuff stolen from client luggage is unacceptable as so it is the delay on receiving firearms at final destination.

I advise all my clientele to travel Emirates and so far have had nothing but praise.

If other outfitters get told that their client's reception was unpleasant and fail to do anything about it so be it. My clients return every year on Delta and have nothing but easy entry at customs and immigration. All their paperwork always is 100%, by the way.

There certainly is a standing complaint about unfriendly Delta personnel from the time of checking in at Atlanta to landing at Johannerburg but the traveler has to deal with that directly with that airline. Even that is nowhere near what we endure from TSA and Border Control when traveling the the US.

quote:

Originally posted by BulletBehavior:
If other outfitters get told that their client's reception was unpleasant so be it. My clients return every year on Delta and have nothing but easy entry at customs and immigration.

There indeed is a complaint about unfriendly Delta personnel from the time of checking in at Atlanta but the traveler has to deal with that directly with the airline. Even that is nowhere near what we endure from TSA and Border Control when traveling the the US.

Last time me and my wife went through Joberg it was a friggin nightmare. 20 kiosks with only 3 operating. People started jeering your authorities till they addressed the situation. One man was so rude to my wife I was seriously thinking of punching him.

The bright side is once you leave the airport your country is well worth visiting and we have always enjoyed our vacation there and will return.

I have to say that for many years, on April 1, there has always been some type of bogus shutdown of AR as an April Fool's joke. Today, we have no such bogus shutdown. However, we do have a brand new member who just started posting some ludicrous comments on or about April Fool's day. Just an observation.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by BulletBehavior:
If other outfitters get told that their client's reception was unpleasant so be it. My clients return every year on Delta and have nothing but easy entry at customs and immigration.

There indeed is a complaint about unfriendly Delta personnel from the time of checking in at Atlanta but the traveler has to deal with that directly with the airline. Even that is nowhere near what we endure from TSA and Border Control when traveling the the US.

Last time me and my wife went through Joberg it was a friggin nightmare. 20 kiosks with only 3 operating. People started jeering your authorities till they addressed the situation. One man was so rude to my wife I was seriously thinking of punching him.

The bright side is once you leave the airport your country is well worth visiting and we have always enjoyed our vacation there and will return.

Been there, done that. It SUCKS. This is why I pay for the service to escort us through every single time now.

The rudeness sadly sounds like the 11 times I have been through Denver, Fort Hare and Fort Worth. I return to South Africa many times and view the style with foreigners and still must see that level of rudeness. So sad that it happened to you and I was not close to observe it. Sometimes Albert Schweizer's views and exclamations do come to mind.

Seattle and Los Angeles are real pleasures every time.

Mark posted an interesting piece on what was actually happening within the RSA government as compared to the rhetoric we are hearing. And then his post was inadvertently hijacked; probably a second or third degree hijacking at worst. My apologies for whatever part I played. Now I think we may have added a Troll into the mix, as Larry observed. Getting back to the original post,the timelines and procedures for Rhamaphosa to act on any land issues are of interest to all of us here.

Well, BB, here goes: I have been shaken down for tips by SAA personnel three times, even though they and I both know it is illegal. Most domestic flights go out of the lower level, which has many gates, and even more planes, on a large tarmac area. When someone hand carries my rifle case with thousands of dollars of rifles in it onto that tarmac, I have no way to know where he is going with it. Yes, I give him a tip, as well as anyone else I have to deal with. It is cheap insurance. I have also been bum rushed in the airport by two locals who literally ripped my bags out of my hand so they could "help" me find my way. Had to chase them down and get extremely rude to get them back. No sign of internal airport security at all. I have had my bags broken into and items stolen after check-in at Bloemfontaine. SAA damaged an aircraft during push-back in Jo'Burg, and the replacement aircraft did not get me back to O.R. Tambo in time to connect with the Delta flight to Atlanta. I now use one of the good meet-and-greet services that smooths out the process, and prevents those issues. What that service does, legal or otherwise, to make sure that I have no problems, is not my concern. As for the form 4457, IT DOES NOT EVER EXPIRE! The year on the form is there so that the U.S. Government knows when to review the form so that any necessary changes can be made, and a new form issued. FTR, I do not care much for our TSA, either, but to hold the RSA and SAA up as an example of how things should be done is not only a fools errand, but an outright lie. 'Nuff said!

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Ferrall:
Well, BB, here goes: I have been shaken down for tips by SAA personnel three times, even though they and I both know it is illegal. Most domestic flights go out of the lower level, which has many gates, and even more planes, on a large tarmac area. When someone hand carries my rifle case with thousands of dollars of rifles in it onto that tarmac, I have no way to know where he is going with it. Yes, I give him a tip, as well as anyone else I have to deal with. It is cheap insurance. I have also been bum rushed in the airport by two locals who literally ripped my bags out of my hand so they could "help" me find my way. Had to chase them down and get extremely rude to get them back. No sign of internal airport security at all. I have had my bags broken into and items stolen after check-in at Bloemfontaine. SAA damaged an aircraft during push-back in Jo'Burg, and the replacement aircraft did not get me back to O.R. Tambo in time to connect with the Delta flight to Atlanta. I now use one of the good meet-and-greet services that smooths out the process, and prevents those issues. What that service does, legal or otherwise, to make sure that I have no problems, is not my concern. As for the form 4457, IT DOES NOT EVER EXPIRE! The year on the form is there so that the U.S. Government knows when to review the form so that any necessary changes can be made, and a new form issued. FTR, I do not care much for our TSA, either, but to hold the RSA and SAA up as an example of how things should be done is not only a fools errand, but an outright lie. 'Nuff said!

Tim,

I think you and me and many others have been to a different airport.

Certainly not the one being described as a bastion of efficiency and honesty!


BB might like to go and post this on sites that require him to pay a sponsoring fee so any negative answers to his total lies are deleted by the moderators!

Bullshit and lies do not last long on AR.

I would love to see South Africa actually welcome hunters, rather than letting the rampant corruption run visitors away.

quote:

Originally posted by Wesheltonj:

quote:

Originally posted by BulletBehavior:

. . . Most of the rants here seem to be what was heard from ... 15 years ago in 2003 or whatever. . .

. . . Form 4495 and make sure yours does not have a lapsed validity date at the bottom.

Zero problem bring the gun in country, because I used a service. However, turning in the gun for the domestic flight the lady in the SAPS office make it crystal clear in no uncertain terms she wanted a "tip" to insure that my gun made it to the plane, that was 2016.

The From 4495 does not expire. That is not a validity date on the form. Thats just more BS from RSA, which is why their neighbor is taking way their hunters. They need to wake up.

Let me make it more clear, IF I go back to RSA, my gun will stay home. I am not going to be shaken down again by SAPS or anyone else looking for their "tip."

The form is a 4457.......and yes it does have an expiration date shown on the form.......now we in the US know it doesn't expire, we can't expect an official in a foreign country to know that a us document that has an expiration date clearly shown on the doesn't REALLY expire....that is grand.

And yes I have gotten more crap from the ICE turds in Atlanta than I have ever gotten from SAPS......

.

IMO, Atlanta is to the US what Jberg is to Africa.

I've had some minor issues with Jberg that have been cleared up by using a concierge service.

I have enjoyed my trips to RSA and hope to go back again. If Mr. Kelly is right that this is not the start of gutting the hunting industry, all I can say is great!

If not, well it is going to be another nail in the coffin of a great conservation success story that politicians on both sides of the Atlantic have been doing their best to end, although probably inadvertently.

quote:

situations

BB
I fly through Jberg to connect with flights for my hunts in Zim,Namibia , Moz etc.
I’ve never hunted in SA as I prefer unfenced wilderness areas and just do Ele/Buff.
I have been through OR Tambo probably 30 times, and do the SAPS thing each time as I overnight before connecting .
I’ve had shakedowns MANY TIMES from SAPS staff to “baggage assistants to airline check in staff from SAA.
Not every trip but on average every other one. Last shakedown was last year. SAPS didn’t like my paperwork as there was no “official stamp “
Our export permits don’t get “stamped” I explained..........
used the same docs. for many previous trips but this guy wouldn’t accept it.

Another one was the staff in the small office opposite carousel 8 where you need to sign for your firearms before they are delivered to the SAPS office.
The lady insisted on some “ nyama “from my hunt.
Then another time on signing the guns out when leaving , the ladies in the SAPS office upstairs blatantly held out an open palm and juts smiled . Should I say the 3 in the office all lined up!!!
BB , please wake up and try and address the crap that goes on with OR Tambo please!!
Don’t come on here and tell us it’s all roses!!
I recommend most guys do the concierge thing to avoid these issues.
I’m stubborn and just work my way through as I’m lucky that I generally have time and patience.

Cheers

SA is only getting worse. Farm invasions/murders and general crime is rising faster now there is discussion of the new land grab. Hard to believe it could get worse post-Zuma, but mission accomplished.

Can you safely navigate SA and not encounter crime? Sure you can.

Can anyone paint SA as "safe" for travelers? Not if you're telling the truth.

JNB OR Tambo is one of the most inefficient, unpleasant, unsafe (petty crime) airports in the world. I avoid it like marriage. Little wonder why SA hunting is declining at the rate that it is. I feel sorry the guys trying to paint a happy face on all this.

"South Africa has with effect from Wednesday last week, banned the use of cellphones by travellers within the immigration halls. Sources at the border said the ban was a reaction to the leaking of a video of one of the female immigration officers caught on camera devoting time to her smartphone, instead of clearing travellers".

Suffice to say they aren't as lily-white and pussy pure as some make them out to be and this particular case would be just scratching the surface.

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:
"South Africa has with effect from Wednesday last week, banned the use of cellphones by travellers within the immigration halls. Sources at the border said the ban was a reaction to the leaking of a video of one of the female immigration officers caught on camera devoting time to her smartphone, instead of clearing travellers".

Suffice to say they aren't as lily-white and pussy pure as some make them out to be and this particular case would be just scratching the surface.

I saw the video.

I no longer fly through OR Tambo without using one of the services. A few trips back, there were 4 international flights arriving at more or less the same time. They had 2 of the desks open to clear all of those people. I had another flight to catch. The line was insane.

Could this be an elaborate April Fools Day hoax between Saeed and Mark? If so Well Done!

I'm not that clever.

If there are an average of 12 hunters on each flight arriving in RSA from the USA that makes a significant number of hunters. Now there is no doubt that the 4457's NEVER expire. Like has been said the date on them is for our governments purposes. So with that many travelers why can't the the staff at OR Tambo be trained on that simple fact? That is if RSA really wants to make it easier for hunters to come in. I mean someone decided it had to mean something and started giving hunters a bunch of crap about it. Simply one more way to coerce a bribe. I've been through Jo-berg 10 times in the last 3 years and I think I've been hit up for bribes at least 3 times.
Bruce

Been through Joburg a few times since 2014...basically no unpleasantness...no rudeness EXCEPT from the SA Police when handling guns..all about fishing for bribes.. but in all fairness some tried to help while others were rude A-holes..

Black staff from SA Airways are polite and helpful..

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by BulletBehavior:
Last year 356 USA hunters responded to a poll after their hunts in South Africa. Here are some interesting facts from this poll and overall money figures:

USD166 million was spent by US hunters in South Africa in 2017.

95% hunters said they certainly will return - the reason being a) the numbers of game, b) the quality of the hunt they enjoyed, c) the experience, d) the low cost of hunting a large number of species.

90% hunters said they had read bad press about safety and security - even existing at Johannesburg Airport - on State Dept sites. Not a single respondent mentioned any such experience in real life.

South Africa must be the cheapest hunting destination in the world and my own experience as a guide in Wyoming and Colorado is that it is about 20% of the cost for out of state hunters visiting those two states.

Bringing your rifles into the country is a walk in the park. I shall not even attempt the bureaucratic nightmare to take a rifle from here to hunt in my other homeland (Colorado).

Sir, I would have to strongly disagree with you about bringing the rifles into the country. It is a royal pain in the backside as far as I am concerned. I have hunted expensively all over the world and I am struggling to think of one that is more difficult than the RSA other than perhaps Argentina. The list of issues is long. Totally disorganized. They don't accept valid 4457 forms that are accepted in the US and other countries. Seeking bribes. The list goes on.

I have to agree with Larry on this. Bringing guns into RSA is not an easy task.

If you think the RSA is bad, try Cameroon with guns. Your head will explode...

quote:

Originally posted by Capt. Purvis:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by BulletBehavior:
Last year 356 USA hunters responded to a poll after their hunts in South Africa. Here are some interesting facts from this poll and overall money figures:

USD166 million was spent by US hunters in South Africa in 2017.

95% hunters said they certainly will return - the reason being a) the numbers of game, b) the quality of the hunt they enjoyed, c) the experience, d) the low cost of hunting a large number of species.

90% hunters said they had read bad press about safety and security - even existing at Johannesburg Airport - on State Dept sites. Not a single respondent mentioned any such experience in real life.

South Africa must be the cheapest hunting destination in the world and my own experience as a guide in Wyoming and Colorado is that it is about 20% of the cost for out of state hunters visiting those two states.

Bringing your rifles into the country is a walk in the park. I shall not even attempt the bureaucratic nightmare to take a rifle from here to hunt in my other homeland (Colorado).

Sir, I would have to strongly disagree with you about bringing the rifles into the country. It is a royal pain in the backside as far as I am concerned. I have hunted expensively all over the world and I am struggling to think of one that is more difficult than the RSA other than perhaps Argentina. The list of issues is long. Totally disorganized. They don't accept valid 4457 forms that are accepted in the US and other countries. Seeking bribes. The list goes on.

I have to agree with Larry on this. Bringing guns into RSA is not an easy task.

My sincere suggestion is to use an outfitter who knows the law and advices you timely and properly and have your rifles' pre-import permits done within the prescribed time. It can never and does never take more than ten minutes if your paper work is in place.

We advice our clients to bring the .375 H&H and 30-06 / .308W with which they are most familiar and can shoot well. I do not know of a single hiccup any of my clients had with a rifle through customs. Not once. Never.

There was a question on safe driving through the country. It is done every day by millions of motorists including tourists on photo safaris who hire off-road vehicles and go off on their own. My daughter in law drives with her young children 500 miles through back roads to visit her sister every two months. I myself do 1000's of kilometres every month. Never a hassle by LEOs like I have to suffer regularly in Colorado.

If you plan to hire a vehicle contact me and I shall come to the airport and adjust your satnav system to keep you away from the Philadelphias,the Boulders, the Austens, the Houstons, the Chicagos, the Denvers, the likes of whatever 200 other dangerous cities in the USA.

Yes there are rude people all over the world in bureaucratic positions and even amongst fellow gun owners on US gun forums. None are as rude and personally threatening as USA TSA and Border control officials are towards legally entering foreigners. The statistics show that illegals are welcomed and given food stamps (debit cards), driver's licences (IN Colorado where I live).

As a US resident I have been going to the US every six months for six months at a time since 2009. Only in Seattle and Los Angeles am I treated with respect and welcomed into the country. Everywhere else, every time, was I frisked and my luggage opened and unpacked and left as is. Three times was my luggage impounded, delivered three days later with the contents in disarray and once my Ballistol gun oil poured over my clothes.

Mention was made here of being "shaked?". Yes - as you approach the reception area at OR Tambo Airport there is a spot check on people who bypass the "Something to Declare?" counter. Just do not have something you should have declared... That is the law and the law pertains to us and to USA citizens. Nobody will open the gates wide just because the visitor is from the USA.

I repeat: the polls on departing US hunters in 2016 showed 90% saying they will return - the other 10% were mostly those who had saved up for a one time safari.

All the negativisms and rude personal attacks here need to keep in mind that we have a saying that "Africa is not for sissies" (read "whiners),and maybe in that non-returning 10% are 1% whiners. I have them in Colorado where I am a rifle and bow hunting guide during the relevant seasons. They make up 10% of my out of state clients there.

Have all the paperwork ready, use an outfitter who knows the law and advises you correctly - and please understand that even YOU fall under South African law the moment you step off the plane. All that will ensure a hunting and visiting experience that you will come back for like 90% of the growing number of hunters from all over the world do.

South Africa has more than enough game to kill and to have prepared for you as trophies. In fact our game populations grow so healthily that after you and the local hunters have left the expert marksmen teams get hired at great cost to remove the balance of the quotas so that we will never have an overgrazing problem.

We are re-introducing the big predators (lion and hyena) all over South Africa to ensure that nature's way of removing the weak genes is adhered to. The health of the antelope populations there is visibly increasing.

To keep the jackal explosion down we re-introduce leopard and cheetah and caracal in the sheep rearing areas and we do not kill them if they catch a sheep - they do much much more good by killing enough jackal.

Colorado is overrun with coyotes that now hunt in packs because there are not enough wolves to sort them out.

Get your paperwork in place, use a good outfitter and ignore the whining of a few. You will be part of the increasing numbers of hunters coming here to enjoy the best hunting in the world and be treated like the nice men and women you are - and you will go back with your trophies being much more than simply the mounted animals you killed.

This is my last post on this thread as I have a business to attend to to schedule the hunts. Thank you for the kind responses I have received on my personal email address. God bless.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by BulletBehavior:
If other outfitters get told that their client's reception was unpleasant so be it. My clients return every year on Delta and have nothing but easy entry at customs and immigration.

There indeed is a complaint about unfriendly Delta personnel from the time of checking in at Atlanta but the traveler has to deal with that directly with the airline. Even that is nowhere near what we endure from TSA and Border Control when traveling the the US.

Last time me and my wife went through Joberg it was a friggin nightmare. 20 kiosks with only 3 operating. People started jeering your authorities till they addressed the situation. One man was so rude to my wife I was seriously thinking of punching him.

The bright side is once you leave the airport your country is well worth visiting and we have always enjoyed our vacation there and will return.

That may have happened and has happened - even so it is never as dreary as the non-moving lines at Dallas Fort Worth and Fort Hare and the frisking and luggage disarrangement of visitors at Atlanta, Georgia.

BulletBehavior--I have been to RSA and hunted there three times. That does not make me an expert, but it does entitle me to an opinion.

I have been hasseled and hit on for a bribe EVERY TIME I have been in the JNB airport both coming and going, have had my soft luggage violated twice, and on the last trip, some jackass tried to pry my Pelican gun case open from the back. The pry marks are still there to prove it. The SAA staff in the airport for the connecting flight from Joberg to Durban were absolute assholes concerning my rifle and ammo, and I had just landed from an international flight. In Durban, I was hit on for a bribe to get my rifle as well. If it had not been for my South African friends, the "official" would have held my rifle for fifty bucks!

I love South Africa, and the majority of the people I have met there. But for you to come on here and spew such utter bullshit really exposes you for the charlatan you are. I wouldn't trust you or your outfit if the trip were free.

It’s probably a good thing that B.B. hasn’t mentioned the name of his outfit in SA or Colorado.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
It’s probably a good thing that B.B. hasn’t mentioned the name of his outfit in SA or Colorado.

Shingelani Safaris

What about in Colorado?

quote:

Originally posted by bwanamrm:
If you think the RSA is bad, try Cameroon with guns. Your head will explode...

Try comparing the number of hunters going to South Africa and those going to Cameron.

Won't be long when the numbers might be the same if South Africa does not get its act together.

I read in a travel magazine that the government has no wish to stamp on the theft from luggage and rampant corruption at their airports.

The proof of this was that they did stop it during the FIFA World Cup!

As soon as that was over, it was back to business as usual.

And another thing I noticed from BB's post.

He said he offers hunts at 40% less than normal?

Why?

In real life, any business owner would sell his services at the highest price the marker would stand.

Anyone trying to sell me something at 40% below market price, I would look very hard at what I am getting.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
I'm not that clever.

May be not Mark.

But at least you are honest.

Not something I can say about BulletBehavior!

quote:

Originally posted by bwanamrm:
If you think the RSA is bad, try Cameroon with guns. Your head will explode...

Definitely in Douala; hoping (but not expecting) Yaoundé will be easier when I go back.

quote:

Originally posted by bwanamrm:
If you think the RSA is bad, try Cameroon with guns. Your head will explode...

Yep! Have done that twice... I felt shaken down for sure..

"South Africa must be the cheapest hunting destination in the world and my own experience as a guide in Wyoming and Colorado is that it is about 20% of the cost for out of state hunters visiting those two states"

You cannot be serious??

Please provide your trophy fees, dip and pack cost, import fees, and average round trip ticket price to Jo-Burg, and daily rates before I believe this.

quote:

Originally posted by Jason P:
"South Africa must be the cheapest hunting destination in the world and my own experience as a guide in Wyoming and Colorado is that it is about 20% of the cost for out of state hunters visiting those two states"

You cannot be serious??

Please provide your trophy fees, dip and pack cost, import fees, and average round trip ticket price to Jo-Burg, and daily rates before I believe this.

He already told you his prices are 40% cheaper than anyone else.

I've been to RSA twice and both time people wanted tips. From personnel handling baggage to SAPS check-in or out. The last trip (2014)my wife and I had our crossbows in an SKB case. Our PH walked us to the firearm check-in since the airline counter help didn't believe the case contained crossbows. The SAPS officer checking the case actually had the nerve to request a handout in front of our PH. Our PH was livid and basically told him to go play with himself.

My experience in South Africa airports has always been uneventful. I pay the "bribe" in advance by using a service and they do a wonderful job. I pay the "bribe" in advance here in the US also by using a service. They call the service Global Entry and TSA pre-check. Think about it. We are paying our government employees to really do their job in a timely manner when we pay those fees. Seriously?!

I don't expect any country outside of the US to understand or do things like in the US so I generally do not get frustrated by differences. Their country; their rules. I also do my due diligence to ensure my paperwork/red tape is all in order.

Come on guys. The form clearly says EXPIRATION and has a date. What normal person that does not know all about the US government forms system would not think this form is no longer valid after a certain date? Heck, CBP and all the airlines don't even know the rules for the forms or what is needed to transport a firearm.

We all know South Africa has problems. Some of our experiences have been worse than others, and some of us are in denial that any issues exist at all. I will say that my least pleasant experiences with customs, immigration and baggage mishandling/theft have been right here in the good old USA. So based on my experiences (100K+ miles flying internationally for 20+ years) I will not sling poo at South Africa until we clean up our own act and set an example for all others to emulate.

Safe travels.................L

Interesting. My first hunt in Africa was with Gary Kelly actually. I know they are bigger and nicer today. I think I talked to his son at the last DSC a year ago that I attended.

On our last trip through JoBerg which was 2015 we didn't have a moment of difficulty of any kind. My safari pack with the 2 rifles beat our luggage off the British Airways plane and the SAPS was courteous enough and maybe took 5 minutes and we were gone to Africa Sky in no time actually.

Beings I had my wife and daughter along, I used the meet and greet service. Zip and we were right though too. It was the beginning of the new paperwork for minors even with both parents along, and we had everything in order and again it was no trouble. We didn't actually know about the new requirements for minors, but we had had to delay our trip a day from Houston as British Airways informed us when we arrived that the new law was in place. In spite of using very knowleagale travel agents that just flew up as of course it took effect on literally the day before we were leaving. So while it was a delay and we had to return home to take an original birth certificate along for Missy - it was never any further problem. Im not pointing the finger at anyone - it was just one of those things.

We continued about our month long trip and safari and a trip to Zimbabwe and back to JoBerg and a trip to Namibia and back again with no trouble at all.

The only bit of aggravation we had was jerk wad from NY in the Joberg airport and must have been from our flight . Cecil the Lion mess had hit the papers the day we arrived - so Mr Flappy NY had to have something to say. I let that go until he came back to have another round. Then I silenced that mess and sent him packing in a huff. Which suited me quite fine.


People asking for money is certainly nothing new back to my first trips in to the oil fields on 6 continents going back to 1979.

I don't think I have ever over-romanticized Africa in my mind as The Perfect Camelot. So while things aren't perfect - its Africa is all I can say.

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
I guess I'm just lucky......been through joburg 9 times since 09, never been asked for a bribe once. SAPS in Jouberg has been professional every time. Got asked for a bribe in PE once, told them no thanks.

SA may be swirling the drain, but in my experience it's much more of a pain getting guns and ammo into zim. They gotta touch and count every piece of ammo and they can't count.......

Getting back into the US with my rifles in Atlanta takes much longer than getting through SAPS in SA......

Ridiculous.

.

Frankly, even with the hassle and the hit-ups, South Africa is easier to navigate than the US as far as Jo Berg or a foreign national bringing weapons into the US is concerned.

It is our egalitarian beliefs that make the concierge services not possible here in the US... so everyone gets treated the same by our not so civil sometimes civil servants.

Honestly, a first timer trying to deal with our bureaucracy probably finds it about as much a hassle as Cameroon (also been there done that, and thankful as hell for the hunt company staff.) Yes, there is petty bribery there, but that beats deliberate government inefficiency.

The US citizens feel free to be obnoxious to the petty bureaucrats here and know we won't be thrown in prison for it... I doubt we would try the same in a foreign country and that is probably the source of our angst.

I have been through Joberg at least a dozen times. I can count the number of times on one hand I didn't get asked for a tip, and have plenty of fingers left over... but I can also count the number of times that US airports with guns have been zero issue trips on one hand as well and I do that a heck of a lot more often.

South Africa does have an issue in that they want to have a vibrant tourist economy. They need to get the big picture (feeling safe and having confidence something worthwhile to visit is there long term) fixed as a higher priority than the petty issues, but these type of threads are common when the little issues are not attended to.

South Africa does have a vibrant and growing tourist industry and has had it for very long. Yes, since the government was handed on a silver platter to the present majority political party some things have gone the typical Africa way of being unmanaged or slow managed. BUT: other than in the US we are not afraid to take a direct axe to such individuals in authority because the law allows us to - so if your outfitter does not do that when you have been unlawfully held up or asked for a bribe then change your outfitter.

Despite what the few cases mentioned here portray (and none state categorically that All their paperwork had been in order)there is nothing that can closely compare to the harrassment the foreign visitor (legal with ALL paperwork in order, by the way) must every time endure in uber-civilised USA. North America is NOT a country to look forward to for a visit. Objectively seen - what is there for the tourist who comes from Africa to come and see and which is impressive enough to cancel out the customs and immigration ordeal the tourist will endure? Even corrupt Mozambique officials have good manners in comparison.

Here is a kind word of friendly advice - do not show any weakness when approached for a bribe - or even when walking the streets - have a calm and visibly, resolute posture. Why will I NEVER be attacked in west Colorado or here? Similarly, please do not expect that being very visibly and audibly an obvious visitor from the US will make the world cringe in submission. In this sincere vein I remember a humorous signboard inside a hunting concession in what was Rhodesia that read:

Dear wildebeest - you are about to be shot with a Magnum rifle - please accommodate the hunter like you do with my .303 Brit and drop down dead in your tracks"

I thought that was quite funny.

Tourist turnover in South Africa has been growing year on year since very long ago with mostly returning and re-returning folks. For every USA hunter too afraid to try his hand at hunting Africa game because of negative opinions expressed here by a few, there are two hunters out of Europe ready to take his place. The understated elegance and high ethics of the Europeans - particularly from the Nordic and Flemish and Eastern Europe regions make for good rapport and friendships. It also is the Checz, Finns, Belgians, Italians, Germans and Spanish who have joined the International Hunting Rifle Shooting Competitions alternately being held in Namibia and South Africa.

By the way, thank you for the personal emails - trust to see you all soon at O.R. Tambo international Airport.

God bless.

PS. I am a USA resident and guide for private land outfitters in the USA and know the tag and so-called "tresspassing" (what a silly term, by the way - why not call it a "hunting invitation"?) fees. For the Michigan hunter's cost of travel and accommodation to hunt one bull elk (and maybe not get it!) and one mule deer in Colorado you can hunt the following here: 1x kudu (possibly Rowland Ward but under 55" + 1x gemsbok 36" + 1x blesbok 15" + 1x impala ram + 1x warthog. All local travel, meals, snacks, drinks, real smart accommodation, daily fees, a real PH and trophy preparation for taxidermy included.

Since 1993 I have been to South Africa over 75 times. Not once was I murdered. So...