If 9 in 10 leopards are not dead on the spot what should be the cartridge used?
I saw this video of the charge on the PH where the leopard attacks the PH. In the comments one of the PH says only 10% are dead on the spot. Yes shot placement is almost everything but what is a minimum to increase the stopping power to help prevent the tracking of a wounded dangerous leopard and risking life and limb?

Well...having never shot a leopard I will of course render an opinion...

I would want to shoot large caliber, say 375, with a very rapidly expanding bullet say like a a nosler accubond.

Leopards are thin skinned animals so its not like an accubond won't penetrate.

This would give me a big hole to start and 2700 fps is going to give rapid expansion that is going to cause a lot of tissue damage and that is what kills, tissue damage to vital organs and arteries leading to lots of blood loss and and death.

Has anyone here shot a leopard with 12 gauge slugs?

Shoot 'em with a .375 H&H. Right behind the front leg and they're dead.

These yahoos that wound leopards have gut shot them. They die instantaneously if shot through the heart or lungs.

Don't need no damn shooting guide. Just need to shoot straight, which is a skill not too common apparently.

Would not a hardened 12 gauge slug do more damage if the shot was a bit off?
Can 9 out of 10 shots be bad due to shooting under pressure?
Is it using the wrong sights at night?
Maybe an illuminated recticle to increase shot placement in poor light conditions?

Shoot them with a 375 H&H and 260 grain Nosler AccuBond. They move exactly 20 feet - straight down! Great exit hole if you might be off a little.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Shoot 'em with a .375 H&H. Right behind the front leg and they're dead.

These yahoos that wound leopards have gut shot them. They die instantaneously if shot through the heart or lungs.

Don't need no damn shooting guide. Just need to shoot straight, which is a skill not too common apparently.

Will,
I'm no professional but....My experience (three) is that shoulder bone is dead under tree, heart lungs = a jumper.

Just sayin

Steve

I have to say that 9 out of 10 not dead is BS. I have shot 5. Not one even twitched.

People do F up the shots. But 9 out of 10? No way.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I have to say that 9 out of 10 not dead is BS. I have shot 5. Not one even twitched.

People do F up the shots. But 9 out of 10? No way.

This is the video where I heard about the two types of PH's: have beens and will bes.

That 375 sounds like a killing machine, a 260 grain bullet must pack a serious punch. I wonder about shotgun slugs, as I know they pack a serious punch. I would think the punch would be greater than that of a 375, but then again I dont know the blastics and such. I have read of them using buckshot, which I assume the man with the shotgun is using.

Robert Ruark stated a situation in which he recommended buckshot. I am curious as to what yall say about buckshot.

We hunt deer here in our river bottoms a lot, with shotguns. They are extremely efficient weapons out to 100 yards or more, but only with rifled slugs. The various buckshot loads are inaccurate, inefficient, and generally shunned by the people we hunt with. Putting a couple 22-32 caliber holes at only 1100 fps in a pissed off leopard is only gonna make him madder!

Point blank to about 20 yards, the buckshot is basically a ball and functions the same as a bullet. If you can hit with that, you are probably better served with a rifled slug or a rifle. If using a slug, I want maximum expansion and energy transfer, not a hardened slug and excessive penetration.

A Benelli Black Eagle with Remington Premier Copper slugs with their huge hollow point would be the ultimate stopper! Fast as you can pull the trigger, and controllable recoil to boot.

1) For the PH you want a minimum velocity of 2300fps...shock does help, and will spin a cat even if the bullet isn't immediately fatal.
2) Two of the top leopard men use .460 Weatherby's and soft bullets.
3) for the client- either use big and frangible bullets or fast and frangible bullets. Obviously big & fast workes even better A .300 win mag with something like a partition or plastic point is pretty hard to beat-unless you are hunting other big game and have appropriate bullets for your .375, .458 etc

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Shoot 'em with a .375 H&H. Right behind the front leg and they're dead.

Pretty much.

If only everyone could manage to do it!

I picture the shoulder area as an upside down triangle. Would it not deal with the matter if you just put a good soft point bullet, like a Swift 500gr A-Frame at 2370fps out of my 450 CZ Dakota right in the center of that triangle? I understand the adrenaline rush wounding a leopard produces, but I'd just as soon read about wounded leopards as actually get to experience one.
Of course, a 286gr out of my little Chapuis 9,3x74R at about 2400fps would work.

Rich
DRSS

You really don't need anything other than a deer rifle caliber for Leopard. I use a .300WM with 180gr. Swift A-Frames for all PG, Croc and Leopard. They have always worked perfectly.

IMO, it is shot placement on Leopard that causes most of the problems. Knowing the anatomy helps tremendously. The heart/lung on cats is located differently than other game and they sit slightly back of the shoulder point. Also you are shooting at an upward angle from a blind or downward from a machan. I also recommend you pick a specific rosette as an aiming point so as not to be confused by the spots. Knowing the proper location of the vitals and then being able to visualize them at the angle and presentation will guarantee a one shot kill on cats. All mine have been DRT.

Not sure if my server will stay online for long enough for me to reply but I'll give it a go.

Regarding the 9 out of 10 statement..... if he means 9 out of 10 are wounded and not killed then I'd question that statement but if he means 9 out of 10 don't hit the ground dead but instead hit the ground and then run a shortish distance before dying OR are wounded, then that statement might be considerably closer to the truth....... although I'd still say the statement is probably based on opinion rather than scientific figures.... in fact, I doubt anyone has ever conducted such a survey.

Regarding bullets........Although you don't necessarily need a big calibre to kill a leopard and in fact a relatively small one will do it, I personally prefer a .30 cal at least and a fast to very fast opening bullet that leaves as large an exit hole as possible so the animal is more likely to bleed out quicker and or course, this also makes any follow up easier and consequently safer...... A Surefire Kroma set to blue light also helps dramatically on that score.

If I were asked to suggest a particular bullet, my first choice would be a Winchester Silvertip HANDLOADED TO MODERATE VELOCITY.

Regarding shot placement: I think it's a mistake to refer to a point on the outside of the animal because the deciding factor is the height and angle the cat is at and this of course will change the optimum spot on the outside of the animal. Obviously the aim (pardon the pun) is to place the bullet through the heart..... preferably through the top of the heart.

My own method to ensure proper shot placement (in recent years) is to recreate and rehearse the shot properly and repeatedly.

Once I have a suitable cat feeding, I measure (exactly) the distance from the blind to the bait, from the ground to the branch where I expect the cat to be and make note of the angle the shot will be.

We then bugger off out of the area, rezero the rifle and then recreate the shot exactly. The client will sit in the same type of chair with the same type of rifle rests and and the same type of wall in front of him.

I then take a couple of cardboard boxes with the outline of a leopard drawn on it and inside the box, I fix a small disposable plastic water bottle where the cat's heart will be.

I then have the box fixed in a tree at exactly the same height, range and angle as the real shot will be. Then I explain everything to the client, talk him through absolutely everything and tell him he has as much time as he needs but that we only sit in the blind after he's able to put at least 3 consecutive shots through the 'heart' of our cardboard cat.

I'm not suggesting that's the only way to do it just that it's the way I choose to do it and even though some might consider my method pedantic, it certainly works a treat for me.

The shot at a leopard should be the easiest of the safari. After all, the client has a dead rest, all the time in the world and a relatively short range shot...... but excitement means it's also the shot most often stuffed up.

I should also say, I prefer a client to use a smaller calibre he shoots well rather than a larger one he shoots badly. That goes for all hunting but especially for leopard hunting.

This might be of interest:

http://www.shakariconnection.c...unting-mr-spots.html

I've never shot a leopard, so my thoughts might not be worth a lot.
But with such a "small", thin skinned cat I don't think you need a lot of gun. Nor do I think bullet choice is very critical, as long as you choose one that opens up a bit and quite quickly.

I think shot placement is everything, like all other game. The big challenge is dealing with the adrenaline, I guess.
When hunting leopards from a blind I guess you have plenty of time, to build up quite a lot of "buck fever".
How can you solve this?
Having a dead steady rest will help a long way, IMHO.

If I'll ever hunt leopards, I'll make sure mye rest is as good as possible. I saw the DVD by Craig B. where he hunted leopard with Chifuti Safaris. Their blinds had almost a bench rest inside.. Good idea!

Never shot one either. I have read that most have been killed with 243's.
A 338WM with 210 NP's out the barrel at about 3000 FPS would put a "sting" on him; A little shock and awe! Probably open up and make a nice exit as well.
As all have mentioned, just hit him in the right spot.

I have a 375 H&H but I would set-up with my 300 WSM and 150gr bullets. If I had to follow one up the next day I think I would like a twelve gauge with double-ought buckshot.

If I counted correctly I heard seven bad shots on the leopard before the eighth dropped him. Not too much to be proud of there. Were they shooting a 375? Whatever it was, it was the wrong caliber, seven times.

I can't visualize a 450 or 375 being required, or being best.

My hunting focus is first shot, first shot, first shot. I can see me waiting too long perhaps and not shooting, letting him slip away maybe, but if I shoot I can't see me not killing him with the first round.

I don't see much in a leopard that is going to mushroom a 375 as well as a light 300. The 375 is going to have 80% of its energy absorbed by whatever is behind the leopard, as it zips through.

After having written the above I checked my copy of the Perfect Shot. They seem to agree, comparing a leopard in size and body mass to a good impala ram. So is the best caliber for an impala ram a 375? Not really. So does it take more gun to kill an impala-sized animal with fangs and claws instead of teeth and hooves. Not really.

As always, carry what you have confidence in. I hope to hunt leopard in 2012. I don't know where the biggest leopards in Zimbabwe are, but I feel like heading south.

I see a lot of accolade here for the 37h H&H, and I am also a fond user of this calibre but;

my guess is anyone coming to Africa with leopard on his list is probably also here for other DG, and unless he has a bigger rifle also, then that 375 is his priamry DG gun. If that's the case he then would have two sepparate loads? If for example he's after buff, then I don't see the eideal buff cartridge being the ideal leopard cartrige (particularly in a 375 or 416 Rigby type calibre) If its the 450+ calibres then yes.

Now this means swapping between cartridges in a single gun and I prefer rather swapping the whole rig (gun & cartridge) because there's less room for error and no time required to re-check zeros etc.

As to a choice of calibre I don't own one but I really think an 8X68 would be good medicine for the cats........

quote:

We hunt deer here in our river bottoms a lot, with shotguns. They are extremely efficient weapons out to 100 yards or more, but only with rifled slugs. The various buckshot loads are inaccurate, inefficient, and generally shunned by the people we hunt with. Putting a couple 22-32 caliber holes at only 1100 fps in a pissed off leopard is only gonna make him madder!

I hunt deer with hounds, which creates a similar situation as the Leopard. A general lack of time to shoot is the biggest reason for misses and poor shots. In this situation buckshot makes for the best bullet choice. I think the bigger ordeal with buckshot is knowing its effective range and the pattern your gun produces. 90 percent of the deer I shoot with buckshot drop dead, the another five percent falls within 20 yards, three percent needs tracking, and two percent get away.

I think the big advantage to buckshot is being able to point the gun and fire, given the lack of time. I only know two people who can throw a rifle up and kill a target. For them the rifle is an extension of the arm. This seems like it would be necessary for a charging Leopard. I have a Beneli SB2 and am not a big fan of the operating system, as it can hang up bad. Take a browning or other shotgun with a more solid operating system and the hunter has five rapid fire shots.

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
A .300 win mag with something like a partition or plastic point is pretty hard to beat

Thanks for the dose of reality. These animals are only about 130 lbs (typical), 150 lbs (if you are lucky), or 185 pounds (if you find a giant.) In other words, they run about the size of an average whitetail buck. While a .375 H&H will kill either, a lighter, faster, more rapidly expanding bullet will drop them quicker. Like Ganyana says, a .300 magnum with a rapidly expanding bullet is an excellent tool. A .30-06, 7mm Rem, or even a .270 is probably a much better bet than a .458 Winchester.

You only need ONE of the following to stop a leopard attack:

1) a .22 LR, but it must be a pump
2) a pump shotgun, that works
3) a pocket knife, with a really cool name like Magnum Hunter

I don't think that he meant that 9 out of 10 aren't killed, just that 9 out of 10 aren't DRT. I've shot one leopard with a 168 grain TSX at 3200 fps out of a .300 Win Mag. He never moved from the bottom of the tree, but it took him a few minutes to give it up. If I were to do it again, I'd probably go with a softer bullet like a partition or just a plain old cup and core.

As for following up on them, I'm convinced that this is the tool for the job, loaded with hevi-shot 00 buckshot.



Probably one of the last relevant uses for a bayonet these days!

Pete

Are semi-auto shotguns allowed in Zim? I know they are not permitted in Namibia but am not sure about other countries.

Looks like a pump. Can't say I'd be too keen on launching myself into the bush after a dinged leopard with anything that could jam.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I have to say that 9 out of 10 not dead is BS. I have shot 5. Not one even twitched.

People do F up the shots. But 9 out of 10? No way.

3 for me. 2 sasacks of flour and one 10 foot flop.

How much do a 00 buckshot spread @ 3 meters?

I have always loved the "shoot em right and they die" statement. Of course, in fact, that is true. But...it is like the fan telling the field goal kicker lining up a 45 yarder to win the Super Bowl "kick it right and you will win the game"
Nerves , and other factors work on both field goal kickers and leopard shooters. I prefer a double gun with soft's on wounded cats, but have always thought that a short barrel 10 or 12 ga.auto with a slug would be the ultimate leopard stopper. If illegal, a pump set up the same would be my second choice.

I've shot two with the .375 H&H using a Trophy Bonded Bear Claw for the first, and a Nosler Partition for the second. The third (hopefully on this upcoming safari) will be shot with a TBBC as well. I personally feel more comfortable with the big gun, although something less powerful will do the trick for sure.

I shot the leopard below with a single 300 grain Woodleigh soft from a .375H&H. It was a heart/lung shot, he did run about 25 yards into a thick bush but was quite dead.

For me personally, I took the time to 'pick my spot' before squeezing the trigger. That is probably more the key to success than the caliber used.

Good luck and be careful out there!

.308 Winchester with 180 gr Nosler Partition and put it in the right place

As far shotgun for follow-up...If I were to use one...I would use the Dead Coyote loads of T sized Hevi-Shot.

I've never hunted Leopard or AFrica, just done lots of dreaming, but could see where the leopard shot could be messed up just from adrenaline alone

I do quite a bit of bow hunting for deer, and waiting for the perfect angle and perfect shot always allows my nerves more time to run wild.

Whereas when rifle hunting deer, it's generally a see the deer, then shoot the deer proposition, with no time for the nerves to go crazy.

THe more time I have to think of the shot generally for me means the more time my nerves start to get the best of me.

Shakari's preparation method sounds like it would be just the ticket for me. That, and maybe staying off the scope until right before the ideal shooting opportunity

Bake

I grew up with a dad and an uncle who did alot of PAC leopard hunts..there was no trophy hunting then and kids like me were offered a bounty by many farmers. I used a 7x57 for 8 leopard. I wouldn't revert to itnow. My 9,3 with 270grn speer bullets has the edge in all departments and my .375 double may be better yet

My uncle always used a Bayonet on an SMLE and dad one on his 8mm...and I am a convert- I have one for my 9,3, and saved myself from a scratching on my first comercial leopard hunt because fitted the bayonet onto my F.N. FAL for the follow up.

A couple of things I didn't mention is that I like to build a rock steady rest in the blind so the rifle is fully supported, pointing exactly where the cat will be and the client just has to lean forward and look through the scope. - I also like lots of undergrowth in front of the blind so the cat can't see the barrel in case it has to be moved.

I also like to just sit tight for a few minutes after the cat arrives on bait to give both cat & client time to settle down properly.

When I go to Africa for a leopard I won't be worrying about silly stuff like what gun I need to bring. I am going to hunt with Karl Stumpf and just have him jump out of the car and strangle me one too. No ugly holes in that beautiful hide, none of that chasing down a pissed off leopard in the brush, no spending half the night up a tree every night for a week!

The tip might have to be a little extra I suppose, but I ought to be able to about come out even since the taxidermy fees should be less without all that sewing up bullet holes nonsense.

i killed mine with a 300winmag

I did have a 375 with accubonds-but decided to use the 300 to lower the risk to the hide. The cat didn't seem to care if he died by a 375 H&H or my 300winmag

While not necessarily what I would want to do, I would bet money I could kill one with a 22 Win Mag. I would never try of course. While, there is certainly a variety of calibers that will absolutely kill them, I am of the opinion that a bigger hole in them is better than a smaller hole in them. It seems to me that they will bleed more from a larger hole. The key is doing as much damage as possible to the vitals. Part of doing that is not just caliber but also type of bullet. I want something that will make a big wound channel, especially if my shot is off the mark.

I used to have some old Federal Premium 375, 300 grain BTSP. These were bad medicine on Mr Spots. They packed a big punch and really opened up a lot. Unfortunately, I don't think they make them any more. I killed 3 with that load. My last 2, I shot with a 416 Remington Magnum with 400 grain Swift A Frames. Not one of these leopards ever moved.

There is a big debate over use of a shotgun versus a rifle for wounded leopards. I think most everyone would agree that IF ( and that is a big factor) you could hit the leopard coming at you, a big caliber rifle would be better. Me personally, I am infinitely more confident that I can hit the close moving target with a shotgun.

Being from the south, I have had the opportunity to shoot a lot of buckshot and see a lot of animals shot with buckshot. If you are going to shoot at a charging leopard at 30 yards with buckshot, you are probably just pissing him off. However, at close range, there is little that would be more devastating.

A few years back, I shot a bunch of wild hogs with buckshot as an experiment. If you have never shot one, a big boar has a very thick cartilage shield that is far tougher to penetrate that any leopard. I have forgotten the exact details. What I generally remember is that at any significant range (over 25 yards) the hogs ran off wounded. At close range (under 15 yards) the buckshot made a big bloody hole. They went down for the count on the spot. Most impressive actually.

If there was a gut shot leopard that I had to go after and I had a choice of a 458 Lott or my Benelli Super Black Eagle with 3 1/2 inch magnum buckshot, I would take the shotgun every time. However, my decision would be solely based on that fact that I believe I can hit a moving target much better with a shotgun than with a rifle.

But what do I know? Just my 2 cents.

Is it safe to assume the average client will only get one shot on the leopard if it is not DRT? If only one shot and second shot target reacquisition is not an issue it seems to me that a larger and faster bullet or just larger bullet might be preferred.

Larry: A 22 mag would do it. Guys on mountain lion hunts here in the West shoot treed mountain lions with them all of the time, and there are a lot of cougars bigger than leopard.