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Originally posted by ledvm:

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Originally posted by Dog Man:
Lane,

I may have missed it earlier but what would you want to personally carry on a leopard follow up.

If I had a man to carry my rifle...I would carry a double-barrel 12 g shotgun with 3" T size HeviShot loads until the leopard was spotted. If it came quickly...the shotgun. By chance it was spotted first...the rifle.

If I was going by myself...a rifle. My preference of rifles in a perfecr world would be my Browning BAR .308 Win with 180 gr partitions.

LG buckshot in a double barreled 12 gauge would be my choice. I used them on wild boar and they were 100% effective.

Back to the original question of the thread:

"If 9 in 10 leopards are not dead on the spot what should be the cartridge used?"

IMO the 300 & 338 Win Mag are probably in the forefront as instant cat killers, given that the shot is properly placed.
Again IMO 180 & 200 gr respectively for the above calibers (SP or Nosler) whose results are likely to produce considerable tissue damage and generate a desired 'shock effect' tend to work well on soft skinned game.

Furthermore, it might also be true to say that 9/10 Leopards are not going to drop off the branch stone dead but may travel anywhere between 10 - 50 yds (got 9 lives after all!) unless the bullet travels close to the spine and damages or creates sufficient shock to the nervous system.

The thread wandered on to 'follow ups' on wounded Leopards:

IMO its either a double rifle or a 10 gauge Benelli (semi auto).
The latter is a serious piece of equipment which, when loaded with LG or OO Buck, will sort out any pissed off cat without too much fanfare.

I do not hold out on a bolt action rifle for a Leopard charge - miss the first shot and you have no time for the second (he's on you before you know it - he's fast....extremely fast, no warning, no nothing - just a grunt!)

Bottom line: Whatever the caliber, take your time and make that first shot count!

The " Tri-Balls " will work in any " TYPE " 12 Guage Shotgun ; Pump, Semi-Auto , Double Barrel.
But works best in " Tighter Choked Barrels ".

" In addition to our ammo designed for rifled barrels we also have the most advanced buckshot type multi-ball loads for today's smoothbore shotguns. The Dixie Tri-Ball loads, in 12 gauge 3" and 3 1/2 " magnum, is not matched by anything on the market, as far as buckshot goes. The loads consist of three .600" hard cast round balls and is Teflon buffered in a heavy duty plastic wad. Chokes for Dixie Tri-Ball loads can run from the standard Full Choke of .685"/.690", all the way down to .660", depending on the size of pattern the hunter desires. Tri-Ball is ideal in heavy cover within reasonable buckshot ranges."

Three .60 Cal ; 315 gr Tri-Balls (945 grains)Harden Lead Balls, which will not deform like most soft lead shot or soft lead Slugs.

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bb...cf93fe6e42fb3dd0e739

PAPI

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LG buckshot in a double barreled 12 gauge would be my choice. I used them on wild boar and they were 100% effective.

Buckshot deforms and does not penetrate cat skulls well...the reason I would opt for T Hevi-Shot. Hevi-Shot will NOT deform.

I posed the follow up on a wounded leopard question to a PH some 10 days ago. When I suggested a shotgun, he replied, "Shotguns are for birds." That said, I still like MY chances with a shotgun if the leopard is within 15 to 20 yards. More than 20 yards and I want a rifle.

A 9mm ball doing 1200-1450 fps at the muzzle will deal with a leopard or lion skull at the ranges in question without any issues at all. All lead, copper coated, new dense alloy, take your pick. For that matter, plenty of leopard in Kenya have gone down to wildfowl loads off BB shot or smaller.

What would you choose if you were following up solo? Two barrels of LG sized buck would be my choice and I would be happy to argue about what the balls were made of after I came back out.

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A 9mm ball doing 1200-1450 fps at the muzzle will deal with a leopard or lion skull at the ranges in question without any issues at all.

Numerous cases where they have failed to penetrate the skull and firer took a scratching my friend. I do think...but still unproven...that T Hevi-Shot (Hevi-Shot meaning the proprietary alloy) would do the trick.

The only reason that I would opt for a shotgun at initial follow-up and only if my rifle were handy is do to the speed at which leopard come. I am confident could give him a face full of T's but not sure I would connect a 100% of the time with a rifle slug.

This issue with buck shot really is a "range issue". If that varmint is about on top of you take that shotgun! What I mean is if he is inside 20 ft. At this range BB shot will take his head off! Some Alaskan folks can chime in here and confirm or blow off this statement but I have heard it said that good buckshot will about remove a bears head at close range (with 5-10 yards). If so it will sure wack a 150 lb cat.
Just for grins I may just try some 12 gauge 00 on a pig skull at inside 10 yards next time I pop one. I hope I do not get to much splatter!

I would agree with Lane about the expected effectiveness of HeviShot, and I do believe they now make their product in buckshot sizes. Whether the 'dead coyote' loads that are T size, or any of the buckshot sizes, this product is superior to any kead based shotgun loads.

Will:

Frankly, your post was the first time I ever saw the 7x57 referred to as a "pea shooter". But I'll get to your ideas about "follow up" shots. They aren't necessary wher the first shot did the job -and if you think the 7x57 won't penetrate -then, I can only say you have had no experience with the 7x57. (I shot black bears weighing between 250 and 300 lbs on a number of occasions with a 154gr - Look, I'm not trying to argue war stories with you. My point was in my original post that bullet placement -and the circumstances of the shot is why the leopard seems to be so tough a shot -and I agree that he is in terms of having to be very still and waiting to the right moment - but these are the factors that affect every hunter who is shooting from ambush -whether it's a leopard or a white tail deer. The bullet itself must be placed -and a very big bullet very often does not solve problems of poor shooting. (I knew a Canadian bear guide who told me that 300 Win. Magnums seemed to "zip through" {his phrase} on black bears hit behind the lungs and shoulders) That's my only point.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

A 9mm ball doing 1200-1450 fps at the muzzle will deal with a leopard or lion skull at the ranges in question without any issues at all.

Numerous cases where they have failed to penetrate the skull and firer took a scratching my friend. I do think...but still unproven...that T Hevi-Shot (Hevi-Shot meaning the proprietary alloy) would do the trick.

The only reason that I would opt for a shotgun at initial follow-up and only if my rifle were handy is do to the speed at which leopard come. I am confident could give him a face full of T's but not sure I would connect a 100% of the time with a rifle slug.

A failure of that sort would be disappointing to say the least. I can't help but think the shots were not fired at a close enough distance. If you're going the shotgun route you have to let things get quite personal but, surely, everyone using one knows that.

Having used LG sized basic pure lead buck in 12 gauge 2.75 inch for Hungarian wild bore and had every one of them dead at my feet I would happily use it for cats. However, they were all shot head on (give or take a few degrees) and at very close range. Bearing in mind that none of these guys were wounded and some of them were moving rather quickly and aggressively the load proved its worth to me personally and I would use it with my life on the line.

However, I agree without reservation that if a more efficient alternative like your hevi is available it would be daft not use it.
After all, Lane, if we're ever hunting together and I get scratched you will have to stitch me up and I have no wish to pay more vet's bills.

problem Shanghai is that he would probably just use staples!!!!!! ouch.....

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After all, Lane, if we're ever hunting together and I get scratched you will have to stitch me up and I have no wish to pay more vet's bills.

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problem Shanghai is that he would probably just use staples!!!!!! ouch.....

Nah...for Milo...I would just use bailing wire. In this economy...even us bilionaires have to scrimp!

I have never hunted leopard but my dad shot 2 tigers in 1952 / 53 with a Astra SXS using lethal ball & LG 2.5" ammo at about 35 to 40 meters.

I shot a muntjack deer at about 40 meters with a LG Alphamax 2.75" and only 2 slugs out of 8 got into the lungs & low down. If I had aimed at the upper part of the chest I might have got more into the animal. Strangely that was the only muntjack that ever ran after my shot. All others including quick snap shots at running animals in tea bushes with #1 or #2 dropped easily! I have seen chital deer shot with #1 & #2 shots at 25 meters & know of sambar deer head shot with #1 & #2 at similar distances. This was in the 1970s and the shots were not premium pellets. The point I am making is regarding penetrating the skull of animals much larger than a leopard.

When I was managing a Tea Plantation in the early 80's, a cow belonging to one of the workers was reported to have become rabid from a dog bite & it was causing a lot of trouble. They asked me to shoot it. I shot it in the forehead at 3 feet with an old Eley 2.5" LG and blood hosed out like a fire hydrant

Back to the topic - the real issue here is that the wounded leopard is out to kill you and is very fast. I guess BBs & SSGs are probably better than LGs or 000Buck. If you hit the head, it will penetrate at close range out to 20 meters at least.

Well this certainly has been an interesting and informative thread. I really hate to use the L-word here, but what would be wrong with a Marlin lever action in .30-30 or .45-70 with a lighted reticle scope? Bullets for both of these cartridges are soft and move at moderate velocity.