Siince North Fork owner Mikle Brady won't blow his own horn, I thought I would.

Here is a photo of his complete line-up of FN solids I took yesterday.



From left to right;

286 grain 9.3, 300 grain .375, 370 grain .416, 380 grain .423, 450 grain .458, 500 grain .475.

All of these are similar circa .305 SD except .475 which is marginally greater.

Note the new FN have 12 driving bands. This gives you complete contact with the entire depth of the case neck, even on my 450 Dakota.

Andy

VERY NICE!

Excuse my ignorance, but are they long for their weight? Wondering why they are almost all light for their respective calibers (e.g.: 450 grain .45 cal, 370 grain .416, etc.). I have heard nothing but great reviews, but this has me wondering. They do look great! Thanks!

Yes, since they are mono metalic (no lead core) they are long for weight. Thats the reason for less weight then standard.

Whitworth,

They are not especially long. About like a conventional FMJ w lead core of next weight up. So a 450 grain mono is about as long as a 500 grain FMJ. A 370 grain .416 like a 400 grain FMJ. The 380 grain .423 has same SD as a 370 grain .416. You get the picture.

Actual lengths are 1.366 - 1.406 inches.

This compares to 1.430 for a 500 grain Swift SP, or 1.550 for a monolithic A-Square RN.

The 500 grain Woodleigh FMJ is 1.387 inches long.

Rather than slavishly stick w traditional weights (like Barnes), NF recognizes there are problems using some very heavy traditional bullet weights in a monometal since copper is less dense than lead.

The 286 grain 9.3, and 300 grain 375 are OK to make "full weight" because they are SD .305 which will stabilize in std twist barrels already. Same w 500 grain .475 which is a bit higher SD but not much.

This SD seems to work very well with a bonded solid base, or monometal solid kind of bullet.

A 500 grain monometal in .458 like the A-Square, or 400-410 grain .416 are just about impossible to keep point forward in std 1-14 twist, there fore the unusual bullet weights.

Pictured is an experimental 450 grain NF FN taken from elephant and 465 grain TCCI RN from same animal. Neither bullet tumbled though one of the TCCI got mangled in her jaw.



Andy

the driving band technology he uses gives high velocity so even though they are long they are faster. the "odd weights" are not tradition but most agree .3 s.d. is all you need especialy with a flat nose. he could make them lighter but he wants matching weights with the softs.

cant wait to use the 470!

Here's a thread showing how well the POI matches for all three bullets in the NF 416 series. There is definitely a method to Mike's madness!

Thank you for the clarification gentlemen!

great post don. you showed his genius and proved my point a whole bunch better than i could

Don,

I will second your post on over-lapping POI for the "Triad" of North Forks.



This was done with a 25 year old 3 X Luepold scope on my CZ550/450 Dakota shooting at a big black 100 yard rim fire bullseye (6 o'clock hold).

100-102 grains RL-15 and Dakota brass.

Andy

Andy,

Is the Northfork FN in the photo slightly bent or is it just the way the photo looks.

BigB

Does the 450 grain .458 give adequate penetration as compared, say, to a 500 grain at slightly lower velocity? I mean for elephants and second shots at buffalo.

I am curious as to why a cup point solid and a flat point solid both ?

And one more question for the NF users... do you crimp or not? Does the driving bands hurt or help in crimp vs. non crimp?

the cup pojnt give a you a little more energy tranfer since it acually mushrooms slightly.

so you penetrate like a solid with some of the soft point benifts as well.

I crimp both 375 HH & 470 Ne

Indy
I shot a large Hwange elephant bull with my 450 No2 with a 450 gr North Fork. Frontal brain at <6 yards.
I have shot 3 other elephants in the head, cow quarting frontal, cow side brain, and a bull frontal with Woodleigh 480 Solids.

I "feel" the North Fork gives deeper penetration. I hope to have more results this Oct.

Indy, Big B, Jerad,

The FN I recovered from elephant last November penetrated more than 60 inches. The TCCI RN just 31-39 inches.

I did not recover two other NF-FN. Too much penetration. Pictured bullet wound from NF-FN (in pink square) and brain (in blue).



It is compressed slightly from .391 to .400 diameter meplat but it did not hurt its penetration any!

The Cup Point expands to about 60-70 caliber. The Flat Point not at all, unless you consider 0.009 inch expansion expansion.



I do personally prefer the bonded soft point for an expanding bullet, since it expands to 80-85 caliber and is more ductile (less likely to blow off front end).



Pictured are 400 and 450 grain .458 at Point Blank and 100 yards.

Same bullets point blank from buffalo.



The CP will penetrate a bit more since it has less FA. Many Double Rifle shooters will prefer the CP since it has such low pressure (bearing surface).

Crimp w the bonded SP is easy, you can make it any OCL you want. Crimp on FN and CP should be on first driving band so your entire surface area of case neck engages driving bands.

Andy

Yep,
Mike finally put more bands on the FP and CP solids like I told him he should.

How is feeding with the flat nosed and cup point bullets?

They feed fine in my 416 Rem M70. Mike will send you a sample pack to make up dummy rounds to test feeding in your rifle (for small bucks).

The Cup Point Solid is just about the perfect bullet for shooting Cape Buffalo. Reliable exit wounds on broadside quartering shots, yet they expand enough to effectively double the meplat area, hit hard and track straight in the carcase.

With the Cup Point Solid you never have the wrong round in the chamber for any angle on buffalo. While the non-expanding Flat Point Solid will outpenetrate the CPS, the CPS has enough penetration to be deadly from any angle.

I'll be taking softs for the first shot in a herd situation, then following up wth CPS.

If we're after dugga boys it'll be CPS all the way.

For elephant you'd want to use the FPS to get the ultimate in penetration. But I'm not hunting elephant!

I Lee crimp all of my 416 rounds to prevent set back on "magazine queens" under recoil. As my post in Big Bores shows, it does not reduce accuracy.

Maybe this will help to answer some questions.

Mike



RULES FOR LOADING SOLIDS

For essentially all short neck cartridges (all necked cartridges with the exception of 404J, 450-400, 470 N and others with exceptionally long necks), the solids will need to be crimped in one of the first (from the front) three grooves. Which groove depends on the throat of your gun and how your rifle feeds the bullets. The shorter the cartridge OAL, the more likely it will feed. Seat a bullet (don't crimp here) in a dummy round to the third groove (if you have the throat) and see if it feeds. If it doesn't feed, try it with the bullet seated one groove deeper. If that doesn't work, seat it to the first (front) groove. If that doesn't feed, you will have to work with a gunsmith on adjustments to your rifle (generally rails and possibly ramp), for them to feed.

Basically, you need to keep an amount of grooves within the neck of the case equivalent to one caliber. Obviously, there are some cartridges that do not have a neck that is a caliber long. In that case, keep the neck full of lands. Just hold a bullet up to the side of a case and will know right away how far out you can seat and still keep the neck full. If you stick the bullet out further, you may not have enough contact between the neck and the bullet to maintain alignment of the bullet with the case as it is slammed into battery, when the bolt is closed. If the bullet gets cocked as it is slammed into the chamber, it will come out of the barrel cocked (i.e., keyhole). Plus, the bullet may try to move in the case under recoil (in or out, depending on the gun), if contact is insufficient. I do recommend crimping as any bullet with minimal contact with the bore will also have minimal contact with the neck, and that contact is what keeps it there until ignition, while the recoil of preceding rounds are trying to dislodge it. The grooves are not wide and to crimp properly, you will need to make certain that all cases are trimmed to the same length. I also recommend seating and crimping in two separate steps. You can either roll crimp or the Lee FCD will also work, if set up properly.

For long neck cartridges (404J, 470N, etc.), or straight wall cases, you can seat the bullets out a little further (again, if your throat allows it). The reason you can, is that, due to the long necks (or straight case), the base band will come into play and it will, in conjunction with the forward lands, maintain bullet alignment. Even so, I recommend keeping half the lands within the neck. Remember, the smooth section between the lands and the rear band is subsized and will not contact the neck or the bore of the barrel.

Thanks for the information Mike. I'm looking for a good solid for my 375 so I'm going to be contacting you.

BTW, you might ask Don to change you from a "New User" to "One of Us", after all you have 90 posts.

Rookie Question,

Can someone tell me what the difference between a LEE crimp is and a roll crimp like Ive been using forever?

A picture would help!

Andy

It is an adjustable modified Taper Crimp, collet type die and works great. You can see what your adjusting and can thus go light or hard. cut and past this url into your browser and look for yourself if you want.
http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1154...alog/dies-crimp.html

Big improvement is that if the case is just slightly off in length the crimp is still likely to be good.

Does not tend to "mushroom" slightly long cases like a roll crimp does.

They cost a whopping $12 if they make 'em in your caliber at all. If they make one for a cartridge longer than yours and the same neck size you can buy that one and mill the base off the inner sleeve.

quote:

Originally posted by Don_G:
Big improvement is that if the case is just slightly off in length the crimp is still likely to be good.

Does not tend to "mushroom" slightly long cases like a roll crimp does.

They cost a whopping $12 if they make 'em in your caliber at all. If they make one for a cartridge longer than yours and the same neck size you cann buy that one and mill the base off the inner sleeve.

I've got one custom for my .404 and it's made all the difference. Worth the few bucks.