I got to the range and shot a 3 shot group with my Pedersen-barrelled 416 Rem M70 and each of the NorthFork bullets I'm using: Soft, Cup Point Solid and Flat Point Solid, all at 370 grains.
Soft Points:

Cup Points

Flat Points

So far so good - they were 0.360, 0.460 and 0.329 respectively. And yes, I swear there's three shots on the FP target. The left hole is just slightly elongated.

Then I adjusted my scope for an inch up and a half-inch left. The first shot was right where I expected and then the group exploded to a random 6 MOA.

I pulled the scope and shot the following group onto a paper plate with irons at 50 yards using North Fork CPS.

This is as good as I can hold it with irons at 50 yards (0.601 inches or about 1.2 MOA), so I think the rifle is OK.

I reckon the Leupold 1.8-6x32 scope is busted inside. All the mounts were tight. Upon examination I found that the vertical adjustment was on the last click UP. That may be a contributing factor to the failure.

I had not taken my backup scope (Leup M4)to the range, so I could not sight it in.

The components are: new R-P brass trimmed at 2.845", 77 grains IMR4895, Winchester Large Rifle Primers, NF 370 gr CPS and FPS LEE "factory crimped" in the fourth groove for 3.585" COL, NF 370 gr Soft Points LEE crimped in the cannelure for 3.591 COL. I am getting approximately 2575 fps from all three bullets. Primers are flattened but no pressure signs on brass- and I intentionally left my cartrridges in the sun on this 92 degree day.

Three weekends left to prepare for TZ - and I'd hoped to be through at the range. Gonna be a scramble now!

Don,
Had the same thing happen to me on a trip. Lucky for me it was not in Africa. I decided to check my zero after flying into camp. Group was ok but a little low. After I made adjustments the scope went to hell. I burned up a box of shells trying to get the thing to work. You are lucky it happened before you left. Good luck.

Roscoe,

Hope it worked out for you. So far I haven't found anyone with a 1.75-6x32 in stock. I'll have to phone around on Monday.

I'll also phone Leupold, but last time I had one repaired it took over a month.

Unfortunately I have the 1.75-6, then a fixed M4, then all the rest are 3-9 or bigger. I like the smaller lenses on heavy rifles - they seem to last longer. This scope is 7 years old and has had 2500 rounds fired under it, so I can't complain too loudly.

Don,g,
What is the weight on your bullets?

All three 416 NorthFork bullets I am using are 370 grain. ( I went back and edited my first post to add the weight - thanks.)

I think the "driving band" design helps get you more speed from the same peak pressure.

Bummer Don! I can't believe it....especially only a couple days after you got the bad news about the bow!! Man does that 416RM shoot though! Wicked.

I am sure you'll round up a suitable scope. Regardless, I am sure we'll be getting within iron sight range of some dugga boys anyway!

Now you got me nervous about my old scopes! With our luck ....sheesh.

Cheers
Canuck

Canuck,

I figure I was lucky it happened today. I still have time to replace it - and you can bet I'll have the backup scope sighted in and ready to go on QRW mounts!

Between your two rifles and my 416, I reckon we ought to be dangerous even after a couple of failures!

I'm hoping the bow issue gets resolved on Monday. Surely we'd have heard here if anybody got their bow confiscated in Amsterdam. Of course, if it is illegal I have now notified them of the exact flight and date...

Definitely lucky it happened today.

I've already been downstairs to double check that the appropriate tools are in my ammo box to swap my scopes if necessary!

I feel the same about the bow. Tonnes of people must have taken their bows through Amsterdam over the years. We should have heard of someone losing their bow if thats really the case.

Aren't you up late?

Cheers,
Canuck

Hi Don
Your 416 sure does shoot nice. If you get stuck for a scope let me know and I'll send my 1.5 to 5 Vari X111 up to Chris. I know you guys are going to have the best time every. I'm really going to look forward to the videos.
Take good care,
Dave

I just called about getting the paralex changed in a 4-12 I put on a rimfire. They told me a week. I maybe lucky but I have nothing but the best service from Luepold. Call and tell them your delema. I bet a pound of powder that scope will be working and leaving on the trip with you. That is pretty fine shooting with a varmit rig let alone a DGR that has a bunch of recoil, nice shooting. I believe you will tag anything you point at.

Blueprinted,

Thanks for the compliments, but this rifle and those bullets make it pretty easy. I think that (until the scope went sour) the worst group this barrel has shot off the bags was under 2 MOA - and that was with cheap practice bullets.

I have the scope boxed up and ready to send back to Leupold, just waiting to talk to them today to get the proper service address. I will be telling them my schedule pressure!

Dave,

Yeah, the rifle is great! I don't think I could see well enough to hold that well with a 6 power, but I designed the targets so that the spacing of the black squares is just right for the angle subtended by my crosshairs.

Thanks for the generous offer of your scope. I think I can handle it in the time available, so keep yours mounted.

Wish you were going with us! (I know Canuck does, too - he's not too sure of my video skills!)

Hi Don,
Video wise you'll do just fine. Chris said that he bought a mono pod so you can mount it to the camera. This really saves you going into recoil with the camera at the shot. It's funny how the gun goes off and you have a tendency to react to the noise and move the camera. Just ask Chris how much this can effect videoing.
Have a great time
Dave

I had a similar situation before a trip and called Leupold and they bent over backward to get everything right.

The scoped was overnighted to them late on a Monday morning and it came back early Wednesday afternoon. That means they could have only had it a few hours on Tuesday. It was perfectly repaired, has worked great for 10 years since the repair and there was no charge.

Hope they take equal care of you Don.

Kyler

Nice shooting Don! Good luck!

Leupold should get my scope tomorrow. He thinks I should have it back on Friday.

Sounds like good service to me!

Don,

Its a major change this late in the game, but have you considered one of the 1.5 x 6 30mm tube German PH scopes?

They are a bit short for a Rigby length action but all of them fit a Remington magnum action.

The Zeiss is longest. I would dearly have loved to have one on my elephant and buffalo hunt rather than the 3 X.

(Greater field of view for the elephant and more magnification for the buff).

Andy

Andy,

As you say, it's a bit late in the day to change my setup significantly.

I've never really checked out any European scopes. Leupolds have done well on all but this 416.

I'll just take a spare scope and hope for the best!

Latest update: I fornd a new Leupold 1.75-6x32 VX-III on the shelf at Outdoor World - and bought it. Shot it Friday and it got 8 MOA groups. Shot my fixed-power M4 backup scope and it reliably gets sub-MOA groups. I get 1.2-1.5 MOA groups with irons.

So it ain't the rifle, it ain't the mounts, it ain't me. It's BOTH of the Leupold variable scopes. Leupold says that scope is rated for half-a-million shots from an 8.5 lb 460 WBY, so they say I've just had some bad luck. They also say they'll get my scopes back to me by Wednesday.

Hopefully they'll work!

quote:

Leupold says that scope is rated for half-a-million shots from an 8.5 lb 460 WBY

I'd say for all intents and purposes, that equals FOREVER.

My old Leupy's have been hanging in so far...will keep my fingers x'd.

Cheers,
Canuck

Don, I am sorry for your troubles, but happy they were discovered before you left. Looks like the iron sights would be more than adequate! Have a great hunt!

Don,

You're having quite a time of it!

I have a 1.5-5x Leupold IR scope with a 30 mm tube on my .416 Rigby. The backup is a 2.5x Leupold Compact with an A4 reticle.

Am using Leupold QWR rings.

Have lasted very well.

Checked the sight-in of the scopes on Saturday. The backup scope had not been on the rifle in two years. Went back on and immediately back to zero. Was pleased.

Hope things work out!

Got the first scope back from Leupold today.

They replaced the "Erector System", whatever that is.

Will not get to shoot it until Saturday, so I hope it's good.

Good to hear they were so quick with the first one Don! Hope they made 'er bombproof! Bummer you don't have a range handier. You need to move to the country buddy!

Here are a couple pics of some recent targets...not my very best work but the only ones not on a pie plate, corrupted by other bullet holes.





Not up to your high standards (bigger at 50yds than yours are at 100!), but they'll do eh?

Cheers,
Canuck

Don,

Don't worry too much, Walter said he'll fix it for you

quote:

Don,

Don't worry too much, Walter said he'll fix it for you

I am sure Don will feel a very deep sense of relief when he reads that.



Cheers,
Canuck

If Walter gets within 100 feet of my rifle, I am shooting Canuck's!

Got the second scope back today. They said they "adjusted parallax". This does not give me a warm fuzzy, as parallax normally only causes .2 MOA errors, not 8 MOA.

Canuck, those groups are definitely minute of buffalo!

quote:

They said they "adjusted parallax".

Thats not too comforting. Hopefully they tightened everything else down while they were in there!

Cheers,
Canuck

Hi Chris,
With a 1.5 to 5 Leupold with heavy cross hairs it covers that much of the target at 50 yards. You are going to have fun.
Take good care,
Dave

Don,
I have the 1.75x6 VXIII on my 416 Rem. It did the same thing after about 200 rounds, was sent back to Leupold and repaired. They said it was something in the erector system. After another 250 rounds I haven't had any more trouble, knock on wood. I'm of to Tanzania at the end of Sept. and hope the optics hold up till then.
Good luck.

quote:

With a 1.5 to 5 Leupold with heavy cross hairs it covers that much of the target at 50 yards.

Good point Dave. The fixed 3x and 1-4x Leupolds I am using on my 470M and 416T respectively, both have heavy duplex reticles. I found I had to shoot at 50 yds just to eliminate my own sighting error during load development.

Check out the group on this reduced load. I copied RIP's reduced load but got about 100fps less than him...guessing barrel length would be the difference. I was starting to get whiplash-type symptoms from all the benchwork, so I decided to do a little plinking with the 470 in addition to the full power stuff. I might have to try this load on a deer or bear, eh?



Cheers,
Canuck

Now that's some shooting with those fat-ass cross-hairs!

If you make a target similar to mine you can get good groups at any distance even with the fat crosshairs. You just have to adjust the size and spacing of the squares so that you have whitespace between the crosshairs and the four squares.

Not that I am advocating benchwork with that varmint rig of yours. You could not pay me to shoot that thing off the bench!

quote:

If you make a target similar to mine you can get good groups at any distance even with the fat crosshairs.

I should play with the target a bit. Even at 50yds the x-hairs slightly spill over onto the red. At 100yds it was pointless.

But, now to work on the offhand shooting. I am not happy with that yet with the scope on the rifle. I am betting its because I have shot the 470 a lot with irons, but not much with the scope until very recently. I do better with the irons, most likely because I don't want to relax too much and end up imbedding that ocular lens in my forehead! Shooting some reduced loads will also help with that I think.

On a positive note, I have been very deadly from the sticks though!

Cheers,
Canuck

Great work Canuck. You just turned the 470 Mbogo into a 470 Nitro Express. Good shootin' too.

You too, Don. Good luck to both of you.

Hi Chris,
Just concentrate on the sticks. The off hand stuff will be so close that you'll make a good shot. Just remember to keep your scope on 1.5 or 2 power.
Take good care,
Dave

quote:

Great work Canuck. You just turned the 470 Mbogo into a 470 Nitro Express.

Thanks RIP. As you probably surmised, I stole the load from your Iron Maiden tests. My stiff neck needed a little reprieve from the full house loads at the bench. They start to build up on you when you go to the range every 2 or 3 nights!

I see on Dave's website he also played with the H4831SC a little. Dave, is that what you used for the 2150fps loads in your penetration tests (old and new) and for the lady in the video?

Will definitely concentrate on the sticks (as I have been). I am sure the offhand will improve plenty as well. I am doing pretty well offhand with the 416, so I know its a combo of the more foreend heavy 470 and anticipating the recoil (dropping front hand a little, pulling shot low).

Thanks again guys,
Chris

I loaded the last of my 350 gr Speer practice bullets last night. That gave me pause, as I'd bought 1000 Speer bullets specifically for this prep, as well as 350 NF bullets.

My log book is incomplete for the last few sessions, as I have been shooting offhand and sticks at a pace dictated by the barrel temperature. (Too hot to touch even momentarily, and I quit for a few minutes.) By the time I left the range I was sometimes a wee bit punchy from the heat and recoil.

I knew I had been shooting between 75 and 120 rounds per session the last few weeks, but I did not think I'd shot them all up.

Sure enough I have used almost 15.5 lbs of IMR4895 powder, all the new Speer practice bullets (and a couple hundred left over from last time) and about 100 of the NF bullets. That all adds up to 1450 rounds. I have 270 rounds loaded (60 NF to take, 60 NF for practice & scope sighting, 150 practice Speers loaded), so I have already shot 1200 rounds since I began to practice in early May.

After this weekend I will be out of practice bullets. Worked out just about right!

BTW, that means that my fireformed (from 375) practice cases have been reloaded 7 times each. They were annealed after necking up, and again after 5 reloadings. No split cases, no sign of loose pockets, no incipient head separation.

The only cases I have lost were due to souvenir hunters, which cost me about 10% attrition for every weekend day I spent at the public range. When practicing "rapid fire" I would often only get back two of the four cases on the weekends. I'm glad I wasn't using the more expensive (and harder to replace) 416 brass.

quote:

Sure enough I have used almost 15.5 lbs of IMR4895 powder, all the new Speer practice bullets (and a couple hundred left over from last time) and about 100 of the NF bullets. That all adds up to 1450 rounds. I have 270 rounds loaded (60 NF to take, 60 NF for practice & scope sighting, 150 practice Speers loaded), so I have already shot 1200 rounds since I began to practice in early May.

That is what I like to hear from the guy backing me up though!

Wish I could say I am right up there with you in volume of rounds shot, but you have left me way behind! I really don't think I could do 120 rounds of 470 Mbogo in a day though, even if I wanted to!

How long would 120 rounds take to rattle off? Were you cleaning your rifle periodically during the day?

Cheers,
Chris

When I started in May I was shooting 3 rounds and cleaning to break in the barrel. I'd clean until all copper was gone every time.

The first 4-5 trips to the range I was only getting in a dozen rounds in three hours!

I finally got to where I was shooting 9 shots then cleaning and things moved faster.

The last few sessions I was only cleaning every 30 rounds or so - and mostly then because I had to wait for the barrel to cool anyway. On the 95 degree days we were having in July it would take a long time to cool the barrel.

The very last session I went on I only cleaned it once and shot about 100 rounds between 1100 and 1645 when they close the range. When I got home I cleaned it with Hoppe's #9 (brush then 3 patches) and one overnight Wipeout soak. It's perfectly clean.

Since it takes me almost an hour to drive to the range and the same back, I tend to shoot for 4-5 hours per session. I try to shoot the rifle no more than once a minute when practicing slow-fire offhand and sticks.

Practicing four shot rapid fire offhand "bursts" really heats up the barrel and eats up the ammo. The last few sessions I probably shot 40 rounds per day this way, and the rest slow-fire offhand and sticks. I'm getting better with the sticks, but my offhand still sucks.

The scope problems have probably eaten up a hundred wasted rounds.

I pretty much stick with IMR powders, because I've never had any "ceramic buildup" issues with it. I used to shoot on the 29 Palms Rifle team in the Marines, and we had to shoot 250 rounds per day. We cleaned once at the end of the day, using only Hoppe's #9 and never had any problems. The military rounds used IMR4895 at that time.

I also used IMR4895 when I shot NRA HighPower competition - and would clean the rifle only once in a 50 round match - if at all. If we did a 1000 yard iron sight match after the National Match course, I would always clean the barrel and gas port prior to the sighting rounds at 1000 yards.

RL-15 is almost a carbon copy of IMR4895 as far as burn rate, but I have heard - from others as well as you - that it may sometimes be hard to clean out. I felt that Varget also made harder deposits than IMR4895 when I tried it.

I don't think I could shoot 100 rounds per day on anything bigger than a 416 - and as I said earlier, I think on some of the hottest days I was a little punch-drunk when I left the range. My right cheek will be swollen just a bit after one of the busier sessions - my offhand "weld-point" is the ball of my cheekbone against the knuckle of my thumb.

I use a Past Magnum pad when shooting from the bags, but take it off for offhand and sticks.

Here's my 100 yard paper plate off the sticks from today. I fired 50 rounds, but can only find 46 holes and one notch on the edge.



I only fired 25 shots offhand at 100 yards, bur I'm not showing that plate! Suffice to say that I'm a 50 yard offhand hunter.

I shot just at 100 rounds today, was at the range from 1000 to 1500 hrs.

The two refurbished scopes were both grouping 1.25 MOA, again the fixed M4 got a .376. I hate it that the scopes set the accuracy of the system, but hunting is not a matter of sub-MOA groups off the bags, and I feel like I need the variable scopes. So I'm taking the two 1.75-6x32 VX-IIIs.

This probably was my last range session - I need to spend tomorrow tweaking the bow and arrows, and next weekend I'm out on business.