Folks

He's told us before that it is beer-talking.

I have to go with Saeed on this. I have never seen a buffalo need a second shot if the first one was placed correctly and a decent bullet was used. Mind you, one could say the same thing about sable and bushbuck

If I am going out to shoot an buffalo, lion or elephant on Problem animal control work - what do I carry? A 9,3x62 39 consecutive one shot kills on buff must mean I am doing something right. What do I recomend a Client brings? A .375 H&H does nicely and usually means I won't have to back up.

Ganyana,
I'm going to direct this question to you, as it will cause several heart attacks if anyone else has to answer it.
Could there be such a thing as hitting an undisturbed buff to hard? As in, a 9.3x62 is just what it takes to do an effective job, without a huge blow that might cause an adrenalin dump? Several countries, including the US use silenced 22 RF's for " soft targets".
When hit in the vitals with a 22 there is no panic involved and the target dies whithout ever feeling any real adrenilin surge they do with a bigger cal hit. Could the same hold true on an animal?

quote:

Originally posted by Kyler Hamann:

quote:

shooting from shot-out barrels,or from barrels that have not been properly cleaned

Sounds like this fella has never left the bench rest to me.

Kyler

I'm kinda wondering the same thing as Kyler here. What does a "properly" cleaned barrel have to with any rifles ability to kill anything?

Matt V.

tsj , i know that the question is not directed at me , but here i am anyway ...

i have bowhunted buff and with no disturbance they seem to go no further than most other animals , also in a couple of cases in high wind in the hills of omay , i have shot buff out of a group of several bulls , with the wind in our face , they trotted around in circles without realisingt what had happenend and from where , and then the hit buff staggered and went down , not even 50 yards from where he is hit ,leaving the others trotting away not particularly alarmed , just confused ... so i think that its a very important factor "how much adrenaline"

the issue is that if its not too hard , it also may not be hard enough , they are tough , heavy boned and thick skinned , in fact the way the ribs overlap there is no way to hit the vitals from the side without going through bone , and from the front , you have a small gap at the top of the sternum , about the size of a tennis ball where your bullet would have to travel through about two feet of neck muscle skin and grisle , so a calibre quiet enough to have low disturbance would probably not be big enough to kill the animal without a great deal of luck ....personally i would rather have a disturbed animal going further rather than a less disturbed wounded animal ...which is the most likely result.

i think that answers the question

Well, my experience is somewhat limited compared to many of you. I have shot three buffalo and fired three times. The first was a heart shot from a .458 and the bull ran about 30 yards. The second was a spine shot at about ten yards with a .450 no. 2, that one dropped on the spot. The third was a lung shot with a .375 300 gr. A Frame and that bull ran about 75 yards. So, I have no hair raising tales of adventure as far as buffalo are concerned. When folks around here ask me about my safaris they always seem somewhat disappointed about the buffalo. I guess they've seen too many videos.

...there is a description of a high shoulder shot (a span high from a classic lung/heart shot) in Nyati book (by African hunter) that might drop the Buffalo - just speculating with it on the pic (red dot - someone please correct it if not so):



my experience is limited to one Buffalo so far, and I would rather take the green one and let the animal die some distance/time later...

I have killed one buff with that high shot into the onside scapula from about 23yds. Broke the spine too, exited lower on the offside shoulder since we were a bit higher than the buff. Pretty spectacular results. I was shooting a 458 with Woodleigh solids.

As I mounted the rifle the buff saw us and started digging in to get out of dodge. I could see him dropping lower in my sights as his muscles tensed just as my rifle fired. He dropped like a stone. He still got two insurance shots.

JPK

That is the "high shoulder" shot as espoused by John Taylor. The problem is if you miss the spine.

As a preface, I do not agree with Nyati or the Perfect Shot as to shot placement. This notion that the heart and lungs of African animals are further forward than other animals is nonsense.

I shoot buff just like any animal. Just behind the leg, about 40% to half way up. It's a clear lung shot. The buff runs a few yards then falls. Maybe not quite dead all the time but down for the count.

From "The Perfect Shot". You decide

The high shot is too risky.

And I agree with Will that you don't have to aim directly at the shoulder to put a bullet through a buff's heart, as some of these perfect shot drawings would have you believe.

If you aim a third of the way up the body on a broadside shot, right at the crease behind the front leg, you will put a hole through the top of any buff's heart.

I have never shot a Cape Buffalo.

I grew up on a livestock farm where the disposal of all kinds of animals ranging from stray cats to cattle was necessary from time to time. I have also been a life long hunter, both of birds and big game. My conclusion from this life experience is that life does not quit easily, regardless of the onslaught on it. In fact, having witnessed mortally wounded game struggle to escape on more than one occasion has brought me closer to giving up hunting than any other factor.

Personally, I continue to shoot as long as the head is still up. It doesn't matter if the quarry is an elk on the ground or a pheasant in the air. My own personal ethics demands it. If I am ever fortunate enough to hunt Cape Buffalo I will take the same approach. I take as much satisfaction as anyone in a one shot kill, but I don't talk about it as I believe it puts the emphasis on the wrong thing.

Some may deride my poor marksmanship, or the quality of my firearms, but I really don't care. My first responsibility to to ensure a quick and humane kill.

This is my own personal opinion only and is not intended to be viewed as unalterable fact or a universal code of ethics for everyone.

I think Ivan got it right on. Get the stalk and wind right. Shoot once, let the buff run off. do not run forward and do not start belt feeding it with the rest of the mag. If the initial shot was adequate and reasonable ammo used I see no point to get involved and I would much rather stand watching the shot placement than stand itching to back the client up.

If the shot was poor, stand still anyway and wait for the buff to stop- which it will do within a couple of hundred metres if it hasn't been spooked.

The problems start when, after the first surprise shot people move forward whilst the buff are still in view or keep shooting. In reasonably thick bush the buff cannot place a solitary shot, fire a few more and they get the whole picture.- Obviously there are specific circumstances when this does not apply- the buff is alongside a boundry and may be lost that way or there is alot of open ground and the client/PH has a reasonable oportunity for a second shot or - you were compromised before the client fired.

For TSJ - No I don't think a .375 is Better than a .458 Lott. Given equal ability, I would rather hit a buff with a .505 or .500 A square than my 9,3. Unfortunately I cannot shoot a heavy rifle with the precision that I can a lighter rifle, and shot placement beats horespower every time.

quote:

In fact, having witnessed mortally wounded game struggle to escape on more than one occasion has brought me closer to giving up hunting than any other factor.

WoolyESS...well said!
peter.

quote:

I take as much satisfaction as anyone in a one shot kill, but I don't talk about it as I believe it puts the emphasis on the wrong thing.

Even better Wooly ESS. Unbelievable how many guys kill everything with one shot, isn't it?

mouse93,if you slide that red dot over to the right an inch or two you will be in the Shootaway kill zone.There is no point in shooting where your red dot is because the massive shoulder blade will absorb alot of the strikeing energy.A hit in my zone will be concentrated on the upper portion of the lung near the spine.I have not hunted buffalo and may underestimate the task at hand but aside from name calling I have not read here so far,an intelligent critic.Another drop dead kill zone that has worked for me is the center portion of the neck.This zone however, does not offer the shooting thrills of bullet recovery,danger,classic stlye as other zones,but it is a most ethical one.

quote:

In fact, having witnessed mortally wounded game struggle to escape on more than one occasion has brought me closer to giving up hunting than any other factor.

Wooly ESS, Ditto for me. I almost quit hunting because of this very thing. I realize that it is part of the game of hunting sometimes but that does not mean that I have to like it. But we do have to accept it if we are going to continue hunting. Like another said, it's amazing how some guys always get "bang-flops" every time they pull the trigger. Hawgwash!

Finishing off any animal, especially when it is aware of one's presence, is not my idea of fun. But, that's the way it goes every now and then.

Landrum

Head shot bull at 12 yards

Heart shot bull

Spine shot bull after the bullet went through a tree branch and hit him sideways. He dropped in his tracks.

1st bull has already been shot, his shoulder is broken. Second shot in the head. 2nd bull came back to him, spine shot.

Heart shot

Heart shot

The above were all shot last year in Tanzania.

I think everybody got trolled on this one.

I saw all the videos and I have seen them before.That is how it should be done.We should all take note.The only fault that I see is that they all didn't drop dead on a single classic style body shot.Also,that rifle should be replaced by a nice wooden stocked custom mauser.Shooting offhand will also add to the beauty of the video scene.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
I think everybody got trolled on this one.

500grains,

You are not wrong. I don't understand why people get so worked up answering an obvious troll who purposely talks bullshit for amusement?

Maybe traffic has been a bit slow recently.

NitroX,what caliber is your double? Have you used it to drop an African buffalo dead in its tracks? If so were did you place the shot and what load and bullet did you use? You seem to be quite an interesting individual.Would you mind posting a hunting report for us to enjoy?

Shootaway

I believe NitroX, like myself, is anxiously awaiting your tiger pictures.

NitroX, you should be flattered that Shootaway finds you "an interesting individual".

Guys, I recommend that you just ignore shootaway. The majority of his posts are either bad advice or just insults. Why a person continues to give advice on things he has never done is beyond me. I started to read this thread seeking good advice since I will be going on my first buffalo hunt this July but see that the troll has invaded.

If he ever does go buffalo hunting, someone is most probably going to get hurt or even killed by a wounded buffalo. The problem is he just does not want to listen to a bunch of people who have hunted hundreds of buffalos collectively.

Just put the troll on your ignore list like many of us have all ready done.

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
I think Ivan got it right on. Get the stalk and wind right. Shoot once, let the buff run off. do not run forward and do not start belt feeding it with the rest of the mag. If the initial shot was adequate and reasonable ammo used I see no point to get involved and I would much rather stand watching the shot placement than stand itching to back the client up.

If the shot was poor, stand still anyway and wait for the buff to stop- which it will do within a couple of hundred metres if it hasn't been spooked.

The problems start when, after the first surprise shot people move forward whilst the buff are still in view or keep shooting. In reasonably thick bush the buff cannot place a solitary shot, fire a few more and they get the whole picture.- Obviously there are specific circumstances when this does not apply- the buff is alongside a boundry and may be lost that way or there is alot of open ground and the client/PH has a reasonable oportunity for a second shot or - you were compromised before the client fired.

For TSJ - No I don't think a .375 is Better than a .458 Lott. Given equal ability, I would rather hit a buff with a .505 or .500 A square than my 9,3. Unfortunately I cannot shoot a heavy rifle with the precision that I can a lighter rifle, and shot placement beats horespower every time.

Great post for those read carefully.

I agree, except I would place the emphasis differently. I believe that one should ALWAYS be prepared for, and ALWAYS take, immediate follow up shots if they are available - meaning if the follow ups have a reasonable chance of hitting one's target, preferably in the vitals, and no other animal.

As a general matter, one cannot do this, since, for example, in the case of buff, the animal will dash into the bush or will be in a fleeing herd, making follow up shots either impossible or problematic.

But as a general rule, I believe one should ALWAYS be prepared for immediate follow ups, and ALWAYS keep shooting as long as a dangerous animal is on his feet and such follow ups can be reasonably expected to hit that animal and no other. I don't see nor have I ever suffered any downside from doing so.

Not meaning to nitpick, but if one passes on a good opportunity to put additional bullets into a dangerous animal, and the animal was badly hit with the first shot, then the downside can be pretty extreme.

mrlexma

Agreed 100%. Shoot, shoot and don't stop shooting until it's down or out of sight.

Yes, MRLexma has put it well.

JPK

Good evening gentlemen

I have looked at this thread with interest,

so let me alienate myself here and now, s

shootaway, you are a fool

Just as a matter of interest , client of mine shot a buffalo bull at 50 yards through the heart with a monometal solid 458 caliber, the

THE BUFFALO TOOK 17 MINUTES TOO DIE !!!!!!

CAN YOU THINK WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF WE ACTTED LIKE SO MANY RASH HUNTERS OUT THERE,

I do not believe in following up on buffalo immediately , smoek two or three cigarettes at least if you are a smoker, give it time too die , if you do suffer from grand delusions about your courage and want to provoke a charge, please go ahead but do not expect me or my trackers too form part of your stupididty


One shot will kill a buff in the right place , how long it takes depends on the gods of hunting

I never killed a Cape Buffalo but i have killed a few water buffalos and cebues .In 99 percent of the cases shot by an expert hunter the buffalos is dropped in the first shot ,i killed over 20 with my 308 and fmjs ,i always put a second shot in the floor.What i recommend cliets is point over the front leg middle of the body.What i use base of the neck or neck head joint or head shots.Calibers 375hyh,458winch and dont hate me 4570 with garrets but i saw buffalos killed with every caliber you can magine.Charges very rare mostly produced by bow hunters.Juan

Kwan

Thank you for the 17 minute/heart shot stat - illuminating stuff and something I've been trying to get across all along. Just because they are shot right does not mean they are going to trot off a few metres and do a wheels up. Where do you stand after the first shot? I say carry on lead injecting until your magazine is empty or you can no longer see the buff. Who knows where the first shot went? No matter how confident one is with one's ability to place a shot well, things don't always pan out as one would like.....
That's what I think anyway. Personally, I have not shot close to as many buffalo as some guys on this thread, but I have shot a few and I never managed it with one shot. Nor would I want to, or think that I could. I Have an extraordinary amount of respect for these animals. How does the saying go? 'Remember it's the dead ones that kill you...' or something to that effect. No offence to the buffalo gurus intended, we all have different opinions, even if we don't have as much experience.

Kwan,I am really close to the gods of hunting,we have a blood relation.I asked them and they confirmed what I already knew,that is they drop dead if you shoot them high and to the right of the shoulder.I hope that buff does not see you to bum a smoke.

We really need an "On crack" emoticon.

[URL= ]Maasai[/URL] Here are the Maasai waiting for me to come shoot my buff.I told them in two years and they thought I meant two days.

Guys, Jorge has it perfectly, dont feed the trolls, this kid has no clue, i've seen it time and time again, another internet professional who's never been there or done that. He evens admits that his own family thinks he retarded, nough said........

Kwan

That is typical performance from a solid. I have seen them last up to 30 mins with a .375 solid through the heart and still ready for a fight with a .375 solid through both lungs 12 hrs later.

Haven't shot a buff with a solid since 1984

Ganyana

You are a laugh. Dry, but a laugh nonetheless. I am talking about the 1984 comment.
I do have an idea how many buffalo you have shot, and I know the number is impressive. I am not being sarcastic here. But I have a couple of what I believe to be relevant questions. Were there opportunities to put more shots into the heart and lung shot buffalo incidents you refer to? If there were, were those opportunities taken? Just curious.

Cheers
Dave

With the current availability of so many mono metal expanding bullets, there really is no more need to use solids on buffalo at all.

Saeed

I understand that. The question to Ganyana refers to when it happened, which was obviously pre '84 if he was doing the shooting. Ganyana, did your attitude regarding back up shots change in '84, or were you a one shot kill man from the start?