My wise councilor, Solomon, used those words in 980 BC describing life's condition.

So, if all is meaningless, what is or has meaning? (from an African hunting perspective). Let me offer a scenario for you, Mr. Experienced Hunter and Philosopher, to consider.

1) You are hunting buffalo in the Selous. You are on your 4th trip after buffalo and have taken several nice buffalo. You, my friend, are hunting strictly by the book, on foot committing to your ethics. You have slogged 10 miles a day for 5 days betting busted several times. On day 9, you are driving back to camp and are 1/2 mile from camp when a truly large, hard bossed buff walks out into the road and turns broadside. The grass is 8' high and you are riding "up top" on the LandCruiser. The scout says "shoot". The PH looks at you with a quizical look. It is dusk, you have worked hard for a buff as a trophy. You go home tomorrow morning.

Do you shoot this buff?

Did you "earn" this buff?

Did you violate you personal hunting ethics?

Remember, you hunt for personal reasons, for fun and to find meaning in what you do. You are not a "shooter" but a hunter.

2) Same scenario as above except you are driving out of camp on the first day, first hour. Do you shoot?

Before you answer, check yourself and your motives for why you do what you do.

I look forward to your responses.

PS - The PH nor the hunter are gay....

"It is a gift" by Boromir of the Fellowship.

"Not on the first date" (or at least not in the first hour) by too many to mention.

I haven't had that experience with buff but I have with a truely huge eland and a 43 1/2" sable. Saw both on the first morning from the landy and passed on both. Will do it again. I won't shoot any aninal from the vehicle, road or with out having to follow a track or make a stalk. But that is just me and I won't critizise someone for doing the opposite.

465H&H

I won't shoot from the truck, but blundering into trophies is as much a part of hunting as humping for them day in and day out seeking success.

Take the easy ones when you can, you will pay for them with shoe leather on the hard ones.

The hunt is supposed to be for fun, I hate for the fun to end, so try to have enough quota for what I want to hunt to account for a little blind luck. I'd rather leave with quota unfilled than end up with idle time.

JPK

Lead me not into temptation . . .

I've been skunked when hunting cape buffalo, and I know what that feels like. Hunting buff is a lot of fun - but coming up short after a long, hard safari is more than a little disappointing.

Still, if you play any game of chance - such as hunting big game - and if you play by the rules, you had better be prepared to lose a hand or two (or three, etc.) from time to time. I'm okay with that.

So, after all due deliberation, I can say that I'd rather go home empty handed than shoot a cape buffalo from the back of a truck under the circumstances described.

If you are hunting for the experience, shouldn't the experience be what you are after?

I shot a Warthog form the truck. I was looking for a Warthog, not necessarily the Warthog hunting experience. I can't see shooting a Buffalo from the truck.

I suspect I am not alone in this kind of reasonaing.

I made a decision to hunt a Sika Deer in New Zealand. We left to see if we could find some good deer. We rounded a corner and there were a few good ones in a small meadow. I got out and chambered a round. They stared at me.

I got back in the Ranger and we left.

In the end I took a Sika that we jumped in a thicket that was running full bore. I made a good shot and was very pleased with the hunt.

Why was I happy with him and not the other one?

He provided a challenge and a fair chase. I have fond memories of the Sika hunt when I look at him on the wall.

If the trophy is in the minds eye, not in the tape measure, if you needed to have tracked it through hell and back then you would likely not be happy with this trophy standing in the road.

You should never look at one of your trophies and feel regret for the manner in which it was taken. To do so is an insult to the life of the animal and a waste of an opportunity to honor the animal in death as it was in life.

It is a matter of pride and personal preferance. I have shot plainsgame from the truck in Africa. Most people who have hunted PG have.

Do I feel the same amount of pride for that animal as I do the countless miles I have tracked Eland?

Nope.

I wouldn't shoot anything from a truck, but if I've paid my dues on a hunt then I won't pass up a gift horse. I'd pass on day one and try to fiigure out how to get out of the truck and shoot the dang thing on the last day!

That one's easy; first day, last day. No difference. Now if you see the buff from the truck and can get out and make a stalk/track it might be a different story (some of those short stalks can turn into marathons - so always take water if you so much as step out of the truck). But I feel you're still getting cheated if its a short stalk.

Family and friends often ask why I don't smile in my photos with my trophies. They say I look mad. Not mad, it's just because in my favorite trophy shots, I'm too dead tired, dirty, sweaty, hungry, thirsty and sleep deprived to smile.

quote:

That one's easy; first day, last day. No difference. Now if you see the buff from the truck and can get out and make a stalk/track it might be a different story (some of those short stalks can turn into marathons - so always take water if you so much as step out of the truck). But I feel you're still getting cheated if its a short stalk.

The above is pretty much how I feel. I have shot from near the truck and across the hood in couple of instances but not on buffalo. In all case I had spent a great deal of time on the ground humping after my quarry and then late in the safari was delivered a "gift" and it would be impolite to turn down a gift.

Mark

Well........since no one was Gay........


Jeez!

1). - No you do not shoot because you committed to the given ethics.
-Yes, I believe you would have earned the buffalo IMO. But not earned, considering personal ethics that were stated.

2) no shot, still have a bunch of hunting to do.


For myself,
The first day of the hunt/hour of the hunt it would be easy to pass.

I hunted blackbuck in TX one year. While the guide was showing me around the first evening, I easily could have shot one from the jeep. I declined.

Went back the next morning, got out on foot and it took about three and half hours before I managed to get one.


The last day of the hunt, I would shoot. I would like to get out of the truck, but if necessary I would shoot from the truck.

In 2007 I hunted a specific whitetail for 18 days. I sat for him, I tracked him, I rattled. But one day I was driving in to check for tracks in the fresh snow and was up on the ridge with some does. I jumped out of the truck and took a rest on the nearest pine tree. I feel I earned that deer for the season, just not that day.

When the you hunt hard, there is no shame in taking an easy one.
Unless you personal ethics don't allow.

Well I am not Gay, but if I had put in my dues and My God offered me an animal like that, I would shoot the Son Of A Bitch. Would not matter if it was the first 5 minutes or the Last 5 minutes of the hunt.

I can live with my decisions and do not ask or expect anyone else to.

If My God puts the critter in the path before me, it was done for a reason, and if I take it there might be a long dry spell before another such opportunity to even see an animal comes along.

Conversely, if I don't take the shot, it might be a Long Time before I am given such an opportunity again.

Some of the Biggest mistakes I have witnessed, is when a Guide says, "If It Was Me, I would Shoot That One", and the sport let's it walk and does not see another damn thing.

If you have the where with all to make multiple trips to Africa after Cape Buffalo or anyrthing else for that matter, good for you and you do not have any idea how lucky or Blessed you are.

If it were to ever happen, I will have One Shot at being in Africa hunting anything, and I am not going to let taking the higher ground interfer with my killing something that I will never get to hunt again.

I have eaten my share of "Tag Soup" and it is not very filling.

Also, my personal deal is, a trophy to me is a representative animal, not a Rowland Ward book animal, just a nice looking adult animal, so that when I look at the horns, I will remember what it looked like looking thru the scope or down the sights, and what it meant to me when the gun went bang and the animal went down.

Call me Gay if you want to, but I have been in Hunting Camops with individuals ate plumb up the ass with ethics, that lost all of those ethics when it came the next to last day in camp and they ain't shot shit yet.

first and only buff hunt was in the Selous. 1 hour out of camp on the first day, spotted 2 40 inch dugga boys about 100 yards from the truck. got off, stalked to within 35 yards and dropped one in his tracks with a spine shot. other one stood there making up his mind whether to run or charge. PH said shoot him if you want. he is as big as the the one you just killed( had 2 on license). didn't want my hunt to end after 1 hour, so i passed. never found a bigger one. was i sorry i didn't shoot the second one. not a bit. was i glad i shot the first(easy) one. HELL YES. when Diana give you a gift. take it!

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
Lead me not into temptation . . .

... as I'll get there by myself!

(By the way, looking at the title - I thought this thread was about the Capstick thread!!)

Thanks for the well thought out responses.

Let me add a twist.

Replace the cape buff with a grysbok that is 2" and a definite top 10 in Rowland and Ward.

Would the quarry make a difference - cape buff vs. grysbok?

This brings to mind another delema. You have stalked the Buffalo and finally caught up to him. He has no idea you are near. Do you shoot from ambush, or do you try to face him and risk the chance of him running off or charging? If you shoot from ambush then you might as well shoot from the truck! After all it's only Dangerous Game when it's facing you. What to do?

I would definately go after the grysbok, but I would not shoot from the truck. In 2007 I was after one and we were having hell trying to get a shot; we were driving along one day looking for a place to have lunch and one jumped up and hid behind a tuft of grass. I got out of the truck (I was riding in the back) chambered a round in my rifle and stalked about 20 feet and shot him off handed at about 25 yards.

I'm guessing in the buffalo example you gave above I would not take the first day shot, but if I could get out of the truck and get close to the other one I would take the shot, but not from the truck.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Well I am not Gay, but if I had put in my dues and My God offered me an animal like that, I would shoot the Son Of A Bitch. Would not matter if it was the first 5 minutes or the Last 5 minutes of the hunt.

Ditto.

Back to the buffalo in #1
After the shot, the hunter will still get to follow-up in 8 ft grass--at dusk. If it's too late to risk a follow-up, then the buff walks.

My take on the hunting of anything depends on what the general ethic in the country where I'm hunting, for the most part. For example, the driven game hunts in Europe. Many folks wouldn't shoot driven game, if there I will, and be happy for th oppertunity!

In Africa, the only thing I will shoot from the hunting car is bait, or camp meat animals. What I will do, and have done many times is, when spoting an animal from the hunting car, will let the driver go on down the track. Then exit the hunting car, and do a stalk on the animal. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that!
Some people will not shoot on a bait, (leopard, Black bear, or lion) I will in a heartbeat.

I will not shoot a trophy animal from the car, but I will shoot him after exiting the car! Would the trophy mean more if I had chased him for two days, of course! Certainly the harder a hunt is, the better the memory.

I have a feeling that many here who say they wouldn't shoot an animal spotted from the car even after exiting the car, have done exactly that before. What I mean by that is I would say about 80% of the rocky mountain elk were shot from a possition not more than 10 feet from the horse they were riding when he was spotted! I see absolutely no difference between the car, and the horse in this context!

In the finish, one fights his own windmills, and lives with the result!

He's standing in the road, having chosen how he wants to die...........

There it is. A Buff or any other DG. I would prefer to get out of the car and shoot one facing me more then I would shooting from ambush. Of course if it is close to the car and in a bad mood I might choose to drive away and re-think the whole deal.

quote:

In the finish, one fights his own windmills, and lives with the result!

Prophetic statement sir.

Speaking from experience here the emphatic answer is NO!

On my very first buffalo hunt I had a similar situation. I'd already shot one buffalo on the first day it was a great hunt with a long stalk and much hardship and toil through the mud.

Several days later I was riding atop the boat cruising up a channel in the Kilombero river. The date in fact was 9-11-2002. I was quietly reflecting on my the faces of my close personal friends who had been murdered that day one year before.

My thoughts were far and away from hunting I was simply taking in the fresh air and the sights and was deeply meditating about things far and away. When suddenly I was jolted back to reality by a PH handing me a rifle and urging me to "SHOOT the one on the left quickly SHOOT". Without a second thought I grabbed the rifle chambered a round and and sailed a bullet at the mud soaked bull who was just now getting up from his midday mud bath.

The first shot missed but I stroked another round in and let loosed with a second 500 gr Woodleigh solid which connected just as the bull was disappearing into the thick grass.

We tracked that bull for several days....

I wish I could have taken that one back but what was done was done.

I vowed right then and there I'll never shoot a buffalo or any other game for which I've paid big bucks to hunt from a vehicle. It cheapens the experience and it destroys any and all honor and excitement associated with dangerous game hunting.

No sir it's on foot face to face or it doesn't happen.

I'll also NEVER let anybody pressure me into shooting before I'm ready again. I simply tune a guy out if he urging me to to shoot before I am 100% ready.