quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
One is not going to die before his day!

In my younger days, I remember all the stupid things we did.

Frankly, I sometimes wonder how we survived!

I remember my father telling me “are you not tired of trying to kill yourself!”

Each time I told him what I did!

I bet he was disappointed his son never won the Darwin award

Mike

It was not due to lack of trying!

I've always figured I was a lot more likely to die flying in or out on a charter or on the truly scary road to the airport in Dar than anywhere in the field.

My life insurance company asks if I engage in any "dangerous avocations" and they list the one's they are concerned about: private pilot, skydiving, scuba diving, etc. Hunting has never been on the list.

The insurance industry with its actuarial resources has determined that hunting is not dangerous and that's what I tell my wife and my law partners.

Truly, you are more likely to be killed on your way to or from the airport than while hunting in Africa. If you're worried about it, don't go. But don't make it sound like you're risking life and limb by hunting. Stuff happens, but I'm not going to worry about it.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
I've always figured I was a lot more likely to die flying in or out on a charter or on the truly scary road to the airport in Dar than anywhere in the field.

My life insurance company asks if I engage in any "dangerous avocations" and they list the one's they are concerned about: private pilot, skydiving, scuba diving, etc. Hunting has never been on the list.

The insurance industry with its actuarial resources has determined that hunting is not dangerous and that's what I tell my wife and my law partners.

Truly, you are more likely to be killed on your way to or from the airport than while hunting in Africa. If you're worried about it, don't go. But don't make it sound like you're risking life and limb by hunting. Stuff happens, but I'm not going to worry about it.

Now now!

Do you go and ruin the impressions of the “dangerous game” hunters!

And those who produce fake videos of DEATH AT MY FEET!

Insurance companies make their decisions based upon bottom line. I doubt that there are enough DG hunters to warrant their inclusion in the actuarial considerations.

Most DG hunters don’t actually hunt DG that frequently, as opposed to private pilots, skydivers, etc who participate in their activities dozens, if not hundreds of times a year.

And then when you subtract the DG hunters who stay back and ask the PH to shoot the animals, then the numbers drop even more.

I wonder if PHs pay a higher insurance premium because of their vocation?


BH63

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
One is not going to die before his day!

In my younger days, I remember all the stupid things we did.

Frankly, I sometimes wonder how we survived!

I remember my father telling me “are you not tired of trying to kill yourself!”

Each time I told him what I did!

Amen!

My Dad used to say the same thing to me.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Had a good client and friend who hunted sheep with Bob Fontana quite a bit so I heard about this when it happened. Years later, I was hunting in Luke's Simanjiro concession. We were hunting out of a fly camp up high, but we had lunch with Paddie and his client in the main camp. From what I understand, they were walking around a waterhole looking for lesser kudu tracks and a buffalo boiled out of the surrounding bush. Bob was carrying a .30-06, perfectly appropriate for lesser Kudu. Paddie settled the buffalo bull, but couldn't do so before it got to Bob.

Neither were armed and the tracker killed the buffalo...the same tracker killed another buffalo that was on top of Paddy a few years later.

Gone are the days when we could track and hunt a tiger/lion/leopard with hundreds of human kills under their belts. Or wade into a herd of elephants and start shooting. On a daily basis. The hunters of yesteryear did truly engage in some dangerous activities and I like reading about it. I like to think I need a double 500 or a 505 Gibbs. The reality is I could probably get by with a lot less, but what’s the fun of that? PHs might get into some dangerous situations but still nothing like the ivory hunters or maneater hunters of “the good old days”

quote:

Neither were armed and the tracker killed the buffalo...the same tracker killed another buffalo that was on top of Paddy a few years later.

You are sure of that?

Knowing Paddy and also knowing the area in which they were hunting, to suggest they were unarmed raises eyebrows.

I have visited Bob's memorial headstone marking the spot where he met his untimely end in the thickets off a ridge above the springs of Kitiangare not too distant from where Luke's son Jasper got badly hammered by a wounded Buffalo years earlier.

For those of you who have had the privilege of hunting this area will know exactly what it is all about.

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

Neither were armed and the tracker killed the buffalo...the same tracker killed another buffalo that was on top of Paddy a few years later.

You are sure of that?

Knowing Paddy and also knowing the area in which they were hunting, to suggest they were unarmed raises eyebrows.

I have visited Bob's memorial headstone marking the spot where he met his untimely end in the thickets off a ridge above the springs of Kitiangare not too distant from where Luke's son Jasper got badly hammered by a wounded Buffalo years earlier.

For those of you who have had the privilege of hunting this area will know exactly what it is all about.

I remember you telling me about how lucky Paddy was there was a nurse in camp that sewed him up.

What is old is new again.....

Much more civil discussion now than the last time this was talked about!

http://forums.accuratereloadin...?r=21510762#21510762

At least no one has accused Buffhunter63 of being an anti!....yet!

quote:

Originally posted by Duckear:
What is old is new again.....

Much more civil discussion now than the last time this was talked about!

http://forums.accuratereloadin...?r=21510762#21510762

At least no one has accused Buffhunter63 of being an anti!....yet!

Actually, what was said in the first post on that thread, is the reason many PHs tray to persuade some clients from following wounded game animals - they are basically unfit, physically!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Here is the way I understand it.

Many clients - I was surprised at the numbers - who would either refuse to go after a wounded animal, or the professional hunter would prefer them not to accompany him after a wounded dangerous animal.

This alone make the number of clients getting injured seem very low.

Frankly, anyone who refuses to go after an animal he has wounded has no place in going hunting.

Exceptions happen, as were explained to me by a number of professional hunters.

All these exceptions boil down to physical inability, which the PH wound rather not have to deal with at the same time as a wounded dangerous animal.

Saeed...very few have your level of experience / knowledge when it comes to hunting, DG especially! Frankly, you probably have more experience than 90% of the PH's working in the field now pal. Regardless...hunting them, and then following up wounded game are two different things!

Very, very rarely are DG animals actually dangerous! Even wounded animals are most likely to want to get away rather than charge...period! In the rare circumstance that it does happen...only a fool would want it to happen, and 99% of guys would be better off left in the truck than by your side if / when it happens. Frankly I'd prefer myself, my gun, and the trackers...nobody else! The last time I saw a posse of inexperienced dudes after a wounded buff, I carried out the PH's body the following day!

I've never understood why folks think its cool to go after wounded game? Its a recipe for disaster, and only a matter of time until someone gets hurt / killed! Been there / done that 3 different times - twice on film, its NO FUN!!

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

Neither were armed and the tracker killed the buffalo...the same tracker killed another buffalo that was on top of Paddy a few years later.

You are sure of that?

Knowing Paddy and also knowing the area in which they were hunting, to suggest they were unarmed raises eyebrows.

I have visited Bob's memorial headstone marking the spot where he met his untimely end in the thickets off a ridge above the springs of Kitiangare not too distant from where Luke's son Jasper got badly hammered by a wounded Buffalo years earlier.

For those of you who have had the privilege of hunting this area will know exactly what it is all about.

I was only a few miles away when this incident happened to Bob...I assure you they were armed, but not expecting the impending outcome that day.

I talked to Paddie about this in 2012, so my memory may not be perfect, but what I recall is that they were both armed. And you would expect that from an experienced hunter like Bob and a PH like Paddie.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
I talked to Paddie about this in 2012, so my memory may not be perfect, but what I recall is that they were both armed. And you would expect that from an experienced hunter like Bob and a PH like Paddie.

Yep!! Paddy and I talked about it too!

This type of situation is the reason I've shot most of my plains game with a .416. I don't like carrying a light rifle and will only switch to the light rifle if there's ample time.

When a PH has to conduct a follow up it is only he that determines whether the hunter would be an asset or liability. When a animal charges it picks one target and rather me than someone with no experience in the matter.

If a lot of clients were killed or seriously injured thete would be little repeat business. I suspect road accidents and charters of single engine aircraft claim more visitors. Nonetheless hairy situations crop up and understanding and managing the risk reduces deaths and injuries. And if the PH tells you to wait whild he scopes out the situation, it's his call.

I’ve been almost killed several times.

But never actually killed.

Never even seriously wounded.

But I’ve always been willing.

Which is what it’s all about.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
I’ve been almost killed several times.

But never actually killed.

Never even seriously wounded.

But I’ve always been willing.

Which is what it’s all about.

Mike,

If I look back at all the stupid things we did, it really is surprising that I am not dead, several times over!

But, what is life without it being an adventure?

There were some clients killed a couple of years back in a plane crash in Zim.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
There were some clients killed a couple of years back in a plane crash in Zim.

That does not count.

Sad they got killed, as all innocents.

But they were not killed by game animals.

Although I can see a PH’s reluctance to take a jittery, or unreliable client along on the follow up, there have been several instances where a PH has been literally saved when a client killed a lion or buff that had got to the PH.

As anyone who has ever been under fire in combat can tell you, it is hard to know how a person will react until your in the sh*t.

Even PHs have been known to scream like women when a lion grabs them.

BH63

The more I think of it I should have gotten a discounted Hunt. A while back I had a wounded buffalo charge, I was in front for the follow up but the PH fired first when he charged hitting a tree. I ended up braining the buff at 5 yards. Then again maybe I should have paid more for the hunt for all the great excitement. Mark Sullivan would have been upset that he didn’t get to shoot it for me

I just don't get this idea of there being absolutely no danger in hunting DG. As I mentioned earlier, these types of threads often run parallel to another where a PH has just been hammered. When I posted that earlier, the PH in question was fighting for his life in hospital. He has since lost that battle. I can't help but feel it's a bit in bad taste to continue a thread espousing "no danger at all" in light of that development.

I get it that PH's are exposed to a much greater risk, either from the greater number of days afield or following up without a client when the client is deemed unreliable.

But to say there is absolutely no danger involved is incorrect. I don't believe there is enough danger involved to be a strong consideration leading to the decision to not go. I don't believe that is the case at all. That said, there are situations that can go sideways very quickly and the threat of that happening is something one should be aware of at all times.

I go back to that video of my last ele hunt I posted and referenced earlier. It was very tight quarters on that island and earlier discussed, Buzz / appie/ and client had a close call with an unseen buffalo crawling through the hippo tunnels. On my hunt, the tightness of the bush certainly was enough to heighten awareness so as to not get surprised by an animal, but all was fine up to the point of taking the shot.

Once that shot went off, the bull's buddy took issue with us and charged. Simply due to the way our party was strung out and the route the charging bull took, I, the client, ended up out of position during the retreat and found myself, back turned, running, with a bull less than 10 yards running me down, directly in the line of fire between the PH and the bull. I guarantee there was some danger involved in that situation. It materialized in a matter of seconds from "all good" to "holy shit"!!! Inexperience on my part? For sure. Never again will I turn my back to run no matter how adamant the PH is about getting the hell out. If I hadn't however, we would definitely have had a second bull shot in self defense and again, because of the way the party got strung out, it may or may not have been completely on me to stop the bull as I was between the bull and Blake's line of fire.

I remember one of Buzz's video's where his client was bow hunting and an ele cow charged the hunting party. The client stepped aside, Buzz fired a frontal brain shot at just a couple of yards, hitting her too low to stop her. She turned slightly, passed Buzz and zeroed in on the hunter's observer, got him down on the ground, and actually bit him as he tried to push her off and got his arm in her mouth. Buzz shot her off of him but I doubt anyone can convince that fellow, not even the hunter but just an observer at the back of the party, that he wasn't in danger when that cow was trying to mash him into the ground.

Dangerous as combat. Nope. Dangerous as being a cop? Nope. Traffic? Probably not either but then we are much more exposed to traffic every day. However like traffic, while everything tends to go to plan and rules of the road, it's those unexpected deviations from normal operations that can very quickly lead to finding oneself in a compromising position.

I have hunted a few countries in Africa where I have been in danger from time to time, but never like when I went to Burkina Faso. Not only do the elephant hate people and try to sort them out to kill them every chance they get, but when the herds do find you and charge, its every man for themselves. I'm a fast runner but the 2 PHs and trackers always outran me. Its hard to keep up in the 130 degree heat. I finally got smart and yelled at the tracker to to give me the double and if I have to would shoot it out alone. I guess they didn't want a bunch of dead elephants laying around along with a dead client so they started setting fires to get the elephants to back down. and that just a small portion of danger I experienced on that safari. Did I go back? Hell yes, but the second time I knew what I was getting into. If you don't think it could get dangerous out there just ask Mike (Beretta682E)

Sounds good. Are people still going to Burkina Faso?

I don't know which is worse the nay sayers,children of ignorance, or the over reactions of some on this subject..More than a few have been killed, even more have been injured..Many a close call has taken place but my the grace of God they survived or dodged the bullet..

I recall one of Saeeds friends from texas and PH Richard, Pierre van Tonders brother hunting buffalo and a cow was lying in the grass with a snare on her leg, jumped them and roughed them up a bit and but for the grace of God they survived and it was the camp joke that evening, buy could have been more serious..