Everyone discusses the dangers, real or perceived of hunting DG, but you seldom hear anything about it actually happening.

I was thumbing through Tony Sanchez' "Last of the Few" and he related how one of his partners in a African photo safari venture, was pulled from his tent and killed and eaten by a lion.

Occasionally, I see stories of locals that are killed or severely injured by DG in Africa, but not many stories about clients.

Does anyone know of any fairly recent incidents where a client was killed by DG?

BH63

On a normal year, and I have not kept score over the last 40 years, but an educated guess that I believe to be accurate, is there is at least one death a year, sometimes two people at least in the hunting business killed and that's not counting the injured by DG..

The high number of deaths multiplies considerably if you count the indigenous of Africa that are killed by Hippo, Crocs, and elephant, and a few by Lions...These animals were not named Dangerous Game for no reason I assure you of that, and its not overplayed, only the nay sayers who have not been there believe that through their ignorance and a lack of actual knowledge..Just my two bits..Fortunatly in the hunting business injurys are more common than deaths, we are better armed than the tourists, but I have known or know of a number of friends and PHs over the years that have been injured or killed.

Let's not forget that death isn't the only measure of Dangerous Game. There are also injuries to consider.

Just ask our own BEGNO about his buffalo wrestling exploits.

Last client killed that I can remember is Bob Fontana in 2004

http://forums.accuratereloadin...=997101441#997101441

Here is the way I understand it.

Many clients - I was surprised at the numbers - who would either refuse to go after a wounded animal, or the professional hunter would prefer them not to accompany him after a wounded dangerous animal.

This alone make the number of clients getting injured seem very low.

Frankly, anyone who refuses to go after an animal he has wounded has no place in going hunting.

Exceptions happen, as were explained to me by a number of professional hunters.

All these exceptions boil down to physical inability, which the PH wound rather not have to deal with at the same time as a wounded dangerous animal.

quote:

Just ask our own BEGNO about his buffalo wrestling exploits.

Todd, but in that case, it was the Buffalo that ended up in the ER :-)

Fontana is the only one I know of killed by a game animal. In this case it was game they weren’t even hunting.

My friend Rance Spurlock died of cerebral malaria.

Had a good client and friend who hunted sheep with Bob Fontana quite a bit so I heard about this when it happened. Years later, I was hunting in Luke's Simanjiro concession. We were hunting out of a fly camp up high, but we had lunch with Paddie and his client in the main camp. From what I understand, they were walking around a waterhole looking for lesser kudu tracks and a buffalo boiled out of the surrounding bush. Bob was carrying a .30-06, perfectly appropriate for lesser Kudu. Paddie settled the buffalo bull, but couldn't do so before it got to Bob.

Tree stands are far more dangerous to hunters than any beast in Africa.

Clients with guns are far more dangerous to ph than any beast in Africa.

Cost of doing business for ph.

If clients were killed or hurt hunting Africa on a regular basis say like climbing mount Everest few ar members would be going to Africa.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Here is the way I understand it.

Many clients - I was surprised at the numbers - who would either refuse to go after a wounded animal, or the professional hunter would prefer them not to accompany him after a wounded dangerous animal.

This alone make the number of clients getting injured seem very low.

Frankly, anyone who refuses to go after an animal he has wounded has no place in going hunting.

Exceptions happen, as were explained to me by a number of professional hunters.

All these exceptions boil down to physical inability, which the PH wound rather not have to deal with at the same time as a wounded dangerous animal.

+1 if you wound the animal you should be involved in sorting it out

Guys,

I think in general PHs are doing a great job in keeping their clients safe witnessed by the few client casualties we hear about. If a PH recommends strongly you do not go on the follow up on wounded game you shouldn't feel too bad. The PH has to consider the safety of everyone in the team and like it or not he probably considers you a liability rather than an asset on a dicey follow up.

Mark

To my way of thinking, two is better than one with DG. Note that most of the injuries and fatalities we hear about occur when the PH is off on his own.

Of course, that requires the second person be competent in the situation- physically able to keep up, and ingrained enough in gun discipline to not be a hazard to the other members of the team.

For all the issues with a PH getting hit, you add in the professional risk to them if the client gets hurt, and I can see why they tend to avoid it... I suspect that plays a role. That being said I’ve been involved in a few follow ups, both my own and of other’s making. It ain’t fun and games, so make the first shot count!

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
Tree stands are far more dangerous to hunters than any beast in Africa.

Clients with guns are far more dangerous to ph than any beast in Africa.

Cost of doing business for ph.

If clients were killed or hurt hunting Africa on a regular basis say like climbing mount Everest few ar members would be going to Africa.

Mike

Mike:

Absolutely. Throw in charter flights as well, to say nothing of ATVS. The USFS has shut down areas really close to PHX to shooting due to them being "highly congested" but there has never been anyone killed on Natl Forest in AZ by a shooter (there was one on BLM land). Meanwhile, it seems like every year someone is killed riding ATVs up and down forest service roads at unsafe speeds.

Very bad publicity if the word gets out that some dude got nailed by a snake, broke his fool neck stepping in an aardvark hole, shot himself or someone else in the foot or where ever ..

Got malaria or some horrid STD …

I heard of one client years ago that stooped over a 'dead' warthog who came to and plunged a tusk into the guy's eye killing him .. May or may not have been intentional but not good to advertise ..

Kinda dilutes the “dangerous game” mystique

quote:

Originally posted by gunslinger55:
Kinda dilutes the “dangerous game” mystique

Actually, this dangerous game mystique is only in the imagination of some!

I feel infinitely in more danger driving in cities than anywhere hunting in Africa!

Well! The shit does hit the fan on occasion and we all should be cautious in DG country. In '98 on the Luangwa a client was trampled an gored by an irate cow elephant who came unprovoked straight out of the bush, targeted a client, ran him down and purposely killed him.

The PH and client had been in a lion machan all night fairly close to the camp and decided to walk back to camp as the lion did not show at first light in the morning. They had no warning as a cow elephant charged from the rear while they walked along the trail. The PH told the client to run, turned to fire at the elephant and stepped in a pig hole going over backwards. The cow literally ran over the PH without stepping on him, caught the client and killed him.

There was an inquiry and I was asked to make comment on the PH's competency as I had just finished a safari with him so I rec'd all the details.

The PH was very shaken by it and we talked about it in length on our next safari. A tragic accident but they do happen.

Mark

Alister Travers AND Client in Zim 1992 buffalo.

The only time a PH asked me not to go on a followup on a wounded animal happened in 2015 while hunting in Namibia with Jan du Plessis. I made what I thought was a good 225 yard shot on a big boar Warthog. We gave him a few minutes and went to where we last saw him. He was still alive standing about 50 yards away about to enter a thorn jungle. I took an unsupported offhand shot with my .300 WSM and hit him just in back of his shoulder. Despite two solid hits, he trotted off into the heavy thorn brush and Jan asked me to stay behind because the thorns would “tear you to shreds”. Jan was right- he waded into the brush and 15 minutes later he finished the hog off. Tough old bugger. I have his tusks mounted on a nice wooden plaque and think of Jan and that brush everytime I see it.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by gunslinger55:
Kinda dilutes the “dangerous game” mystique

Actually, this dangerous game mystique is only in the imagination of some!

That's funny.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't my imagination when Bruce Cronje and I got pinned down in our leopard blind at night by an irate ele cow with calf just a few feet outside our blind as she just seemed to materialize there before we had enough warning to vacate the area. Kicked dirt and rocks on us in the pitch black night for a good 3 or 4 minutes before deciding not to flatten us.

I'm also pretty sure it wasn't my imagination when I shot that ele bull on that Zambezi River island in thick cover and his buddy decided to try and take us out. I remember getting turned around trying to get the hell out of Dodge at Blake's urging (mistake on my part turning my back), looking over my shoulder and seeing that bull less than 10 yards, ears out, trunk tucked, and closing in on me completely out of position to shoot.

I was speaking with Buzz last month in camp. He told me about hunting buffalo on that same island with a client and appie. There are numerous places on that island where it's so think the only way to move is to crawl on hands and knees down hippo trails. He was telling me they were crawling down one of these trails and all of a sudden BANG. Started looking around to see who had the AD. Wasn't an AD at all. The appie noticed a buffalo bull laying just a couple of feet off the trail, ready to hammer someone, and shot it in the brain before it could come. Buzz told me he's decided hunting that island isn't worth the danger any longer.

You say there is no danger over and over, yet we get stories of guys getting hammered and even killed each year. I don't believe danger lurks around every corner. That said, somehow, when it unfortunately happens, I don't think it's just imagination.

Saeed is right though I bet it’s more dangerous statistically to drive in a city. Heck if there wasn’t at least some danger from the bad drivers lousy vehicles scary airplanes and pissed off natives and animals what good would it be anyway? Might as well stay at home

I had a very close call once with a herd of cow ele in southern Zimbabwe right at the confluence of the Shashi and the Limpopo. It gave me an all new respect for ele. Up until that incident...I never gave much thought to the dangerous part of dangerous game hunting.

It is way more likely for any of us to be killed in a car accident on our merry way of daily activity...than hunting. Today crossing the Red from Oklahoma to Texas on I-35...Texas has a marquee sign with statistics on it that says >2000 killed thus far in 2019 in Texas alone.

In North America, you better have a Howlitzer in bear country. Records kept for over 100 years, all species of bears both tame (Circuses and zoo's) and wild in all of North America about one fatality per year. Make more sense to carry a fly swatter as many more die from bee and wasp stings than from bears.

If dangerous game hunting was really dangerous to the client there would be a bunch of clients walking around with battle scars. All we have is a bunch of clients walking around with trophy rooms.

People don’t do dangerous activity on discretionary vacations. A full bag safari is not the same as working as a security contractor in taleban controlled Afghanistan. Anyone want to go enjoy a real dangerous vacation should look at a safari in Burkina Faso right now.

Last time I checked my daily rate for a Buffalo hunt was $1200 a day and the emergency evacuations insurance was $10 a day. When the downside to get you home from you dangerous hunting vacation is less than 100 bps it ain’t really dangerous. Your travel insurance on cancelling your plane ticket is significantly more.

All the phs I have spoken to have little desire to have a client who wounded a dangerous game tagging along for follow up. It only adds to the risk of having someone who might shoot the ph. I can list far more phs shot by their clients than clients injured by dangerous game. Adjust for Nixon and the 3 people I know injured or touched by dangerous game goes to 1.

As Hemingway said “There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.”

Mike

I find it interesting how this type of thread pops up from time to time. What's really interesting is it seems every time the topic pops up and all the attempts at convincing us there is absolutely no danger involved in hunting dangerous game start up, there is also, on the forum, at the very same time, another thread like this one:

http://forums.accuratereloadin...121025352#4121025352

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
I find it interesting how this type of thread pops up from time to time. What's really interesting is it seems every time the topic pops up and all the attempts at convincing us there is absolutely no danger involved in hunting dangerous game start up, there is also, on the forum, at the very same time, another thread like this one:

http://forums.accuratereloadin...121025352#4121025352

There are no absolutes in life short of death - taxes can be avoided if one is smart and Rich and long term.

Cannot confuse ph and client. It’s not like they are in a tandem parachute jump. One has a riskier job.

Over numbers of days hunted, game hunted, quality of clients ect an occasional ph deaths a year should be expected. That is just reality. Same way as most large trucking companies every Monday have a meeting where they discuss how many accidents and people killed or injured by their trucks.

It’s one fatality per 100 mil miles. No truck driver will drive 100 mil miles in his or her career. But over many driver there will be fatalities. It does not make truck driving a super risky occupation.

Over time some ph will be killed hunting - that is the occupation they have choosen. An occasional client may get killed. Many more clients will probably die of a heart attack on safari.

Mike

The numbers would look far worse if were possible to truly die of embarrassment.

I don’t have life insurance - I am self insured.

Has anyone checked their life insurance policy to see in dangerous game hunting falls into an exclusion category?

https://www.quotacy.com/8-surp...life-insurance-cost/

Mike

I do know if you are a ph in Zim there are insurance companies in South Africa that will sell you medical insurance. It is expensive.

If you want to know the difference in risk between client and ph - it’s a lot more than $99 global rescue charges for a week.

Also if someone sells insurance it assume a complete market - expensive but complete. Somebody has priced the risk of being a ph and client.

Mike

This has some info on hunting and life insurance

https://www.truebluelifeinsura...ect-insurance-rates/

Mike

Fishing is more expensive than hunting in your webpage there...

Better reconsider that fishing hobby, there Mike!

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
It is way more likely for any of us to be killed in a car accident on our merry way of daily activity...than hunting. Today crossing the Red from Oklahoma to Texas on I-35...Texas has a marquee sign with statistics on it that says >2000 killed thus far in 2019 in Texas alone.

Exactly!

But we do have some here who like to make hunting Africa is no different than lying on a train track at night!

I am more worried about being bitten by a snake, falling into a hole while running in the grass, than being killed by any animal in Africa.

Reminds me of someone a few years ago here claiming he only shoots elephants when his muzzle touches them.

Then we found out that the only elephant he shot was 50 yards away!

Those who actually claim they hunt dangerous animals for the danger elements are nuts.

Only an idiot goes hunting to put himself and others in danger.

I go hunting because I enjoy it, and would avoid getting myself or anyone in my party in danger.

Of course, there is ALWAYS an element of danger there, but one tries to minimize it.

Non of the utterly stupid behavior of idiots like Mark Sullivan Who purposely wounds animals, and those lying right in the open, sets up all his cameras to glorify his sick mind.

I am sure we have hunters here who have shot more buffalo than me, and I am sure they know wounded buffalo don’t go and lay down right in the open for you to walk up to them and give them the choice of how to die!

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Fishing is more expensive than hunting in your webpage there...

Better reconsider that fishing hobby, there Mike!

Offshore fishing is far more risky than dangerous game hunting. The quality of the boats vary far more than the quality of phs do.

Also the ocean is far more risky than land in Africa.

Just off cape canaveral in last 6 weeks - one commercial fisherman missing and 2 recreational fishermen missing.

The ocean is brutal.

Mike

One is not going to die before his day!

In my younger days, I remember all the stupid things we did.

Frankly, I sometimes wonder how we survived!

I remember my father telling me “are you not tired of trying to kill yourself!”

Each time I told him what I did!

People pay big bucks to hunt DG.

I do it because I like the personal challenge of confronting a potentially dangerous animal and making my shot without being flustered or afraid.

Occasionally, you do have to stand your ground when charged by a buffalo or elephant.

That is where the excitement of a hunt peaks as far as I am concerned.

Like Tony Sanchez stated in one of his books, I too, have never been interested in plains game hunting.

At home, I hunt deer, elk, pronghorn, and black bear. I get satisfaction from that type of hunting primarily because I am totally responsible for my success or failure.

In Africa the PH does all the hunting. You are primarily a tag along that pulls the trigger.

A keen hunter learns a lot from watching the PH and trackers. To me that is value added.

What is interesting, to me anyway, is that the PH and trackers often have a more realistic idea of the real dangers than the clients.

That is because they have seen or even experienced hunts that have turned out badly, or have seen or known locals that have been maimed or killed by Africa’s most deadly.

Many clients will either magnify the dangers or trivialize the dangers.

I know there are some clients who are collectors of various species of game. They shoot everything from dik dik to giraffes.

They either have enough money that they don’t mind paying thousands of dollars to hunt, shoot, and mount a vervet monkey, or they’re obsessed with killing/collecting.

Not judging, just saying.

BH63

quote:

In Africa the PH does all the hunting. You are primarily a tag along that pulls the trigger.

A keen hunter learns a lot from watching the PH and trackers. To me that is value added.

What is interesting, to me anyway, is that the PH and trackers often have a more realistic idea of the real dangers than the clients.

That is because they have seen or even experienced hunts that have turned out badly, or have seen or known locals that have been maimed or killed by Africa’s most deadly.

BH63, What you say is quite true.

Except for a few clients who will show genuine interest by trying to participate in the events taking place, most others will just sit in the back of the Cruiser and impatiently wait to be put on the sticks.

The most irritating and difficult ones to get along with are the ones who having read Ruark and Capstick's books among others back to front and become experts on the subject, are obsessed in teaching their grandmothers how to suck eggs; fail to realize that they don't know their arses from their elbows - and there's no shortage of those types.

^
I have been fortunate in that all of my PHs were extremely eager to explain and share their knowledge.

When I goof up, we all laugh together.

One of my most cherished moments, as I was saying goodbye to a Ndebele Tracker, was him giving me his phone number and telling me to call him if I return to Zimbabwe.

“We will hunt lions’, he said, ‘it is very dangerous.”

That is what makes me want to return.

BH63

BH63. It s always an interesting question but both stats are poor and there is usually not much media interest so apart from word of mouth, it’s difficult to know.

I know of in the last couple of years near fatal incidents with eland, sable, two buffalo injuries (friend and son), PH from buffalo, two buffalo breeders killed, and two lion injuries, that were never reported. There are more reported ones. Also there have been at least 7 leopard related deaths in the Kruger Park, all employee related, but not all reported.
Two from lions in Moremi.

However, on SA roads, there are more deaths than DG.

Note also about 30 people are killed each year from deer (a friends nephew from kicking included) and about 20 farmers a year in the USA from cattle.

However, there is something special about hunting dangerous game among DG. Having just returned from hunting two buffalo up close with a .577 NE double, after spending time hiking in bush and river reeds with the possibility of flushing hippo or buffalo, there s something very special about it! Your senses are so much hyperacute to every sound, movement, wind shift, etc., we flushed a leopard. Sleeping in tents at night, we heard all the night chatter between lions, zebra, elephants, hyaena, hippo, leopard, and birds. A leopard killed a duiker 40-50 yards from us in the river. A pack of 12 wild dogs were on the slope behind us, and also rhino. That s when one gets the full sense of DG and also what was one’s real place in nature. Hyaenas were a constant menace and on the trail camera one was sniffing at my tent window more than inquisitively.

That’s what makes Africa DG hunting so very special but I still enjoy sitting a blind in the bitter cold waiting for whitetail, or New Mexico for mulies, elk, and antelope....just different. As long as ones out in nature.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
One is not going to die before his day!

In my younger days, I remember all the stupid things we did.

Frankly, I sometimes wonder how we survived!

I remember my father telling me “are you not tired of trying to kill yourself!”

Each time I told him what I did!

I bet he was disappointed his son never won the Darwin award

Mike