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Clients: Expectations vs Abilities
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It is getting more and more common these days for everyone to jump to conclusions, place the blame on someone else, comment unnecessarily before the fact are out and condemn someone via internet jut to start a post/ topic or perhaps boredom, perhaps because you feel it is your right.

I need to post this for many reasons and I am sure there will be those that will have their say and they are very much entitled to it as PH's ( and I speak for a lot of them ) have theirs.

Modern day hunting and expectations.

We have to realize folks that the era of Selous and Bell, Selby and .......are over yes they conjure up memories of old and their stories and nuances make for romantic and exciting ' old African ' memories, but lets be honest, this is 2012, a lot has changed. We no longer have the time to conduct 3 month safaris throughout untamed Africa, people no longer have the time and or resources to take off ' from work ' for a month, there are very few areas without boundaries, so what happens, safaris get shorter, yet expectations remain the same. The most common questions asked are:

What is you average buffalo taken, I am looking for something over 40"
Do your leopard reach 200 pounds? I am looking for a cat with a big head and body!
I am looking for ivory in the range of 60 pounds/ side and matched! Preferably long not short and fat!
It needs to be a black maned lion!

These are some of the questions asked each and every time via email and phone and at the shows, really!!
Lets be honest with ourselves as hunters as custodians to the wildlife of Africa , of the world, why do we hunt?

Well I would like to think it is a tradition passed down through the ages, and I would like to think it is because of the excitement of the actual stalk and perhaps because it is a nice way for many people to relax whilst on a ' safari holiday '. But no , to most it is because of inches, because of what my friend has on his wall, because I am trying to have the biggest and best!

This is what I and many other PH's think, if you want a 43 " buffalo, a 60 pound elephant, a black maned lion and a 200 pound leopard, then be prepared to walk 30 km's / day, sit for hours on end in an uncomfortable blind with no water and little or no food, track buffalo mile after mile and never see one big enough and pass up many lion that may or may not have a decent mane despite their maturity, be prepared to go home empty handed because lets be honest you have set the goals! If you have a sugar problem, a knee problem, are overweight and cannot walk, can't see well or cannot climb mountains, surely you should lower you sights and your expectations.
Your inability to walk long distances, to sleep on rocks and go without water is not anyone's fault. But when you are home, don't go and blast a PH, an operator, and area because you ' failed'! After 7, 10 or 14 days in an area, what makes you an authority , or gives you the right to think you can inform the world and everyone must listen

Too many times we have ( and more so these days ) an internet trial where someone gets blasted and his reputation comes under question, whose fault was it a genuine PH, operator , area fault, or the inability for many people to understand their abilities and have reasonable expectations. Once there is a post on the internet good or bad, it remains there and can be very damning to a persons credibility.

We all want the yesteryear of Africa, but sadly it is gone and things will continue to change. Make sure your expectations are in line with your abilities! If more hunters could be like the minority and say I hunt for the experience as long as it is mature, the hunting world in general will be a better place to enjoy our heritage

Feel free to blast the heck out of me!


martinpieterssafaris@gmail.com
www.martinpieterssafaris.com

" hunt as if it's your last one you'll ever be on"
 
Posts: 639 | Location: Zimbabwe | Registered: 26 January 2009Reply With Quote
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Bravo! It's the experience that counts.

beer

Zim may be in my future someday and perhaps we will discuss these same thoughts by a fire.


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2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112
2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012
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Posts: 7636 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 05 February 2008Reply With Quote
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Dear Martin

No need to blast you, the world is full of high expectations.

Just look in all the mag's. If you do not look like a super model, have money like bill gates you must be a lesser person.

What a load of crap.

Not sure how many of those questions I asked you but one or 2 I bet.

For me it comes down to finding out what the range of animals you have to offer. From then I try to work out what I can afford and which will provide the best value for money.
Then evaluate the experiance I will get from the trip.

Usually my worst hunting trips are the most remembered. Some times it takes time to reflect on what really matters. A good hard hunt.
Which may take years for you to get into perspective.
With the inter net the time factor is no longer there and you will always fined some one that will feel sorry for you or had the same experance that makes you feel better.

No one wants to buy a used car that break down. A house that has black outs and a roof that leaks.
No one wants to go home to the wife and explain why she had to go with out while you went on the hunting trip of a life to to come home empty handed.

So as they say sh_t flows down hill. In your case it is to you.
Not for any of the reasons you mentioned above. As in this day and age it is easy to blame some one else.

I use to sit back and look at all the larger people going hunting in New Zealand and laugh how will they get any thing. I was 20 years old and fighting fit.
They were 55 years old and 3 times my weight.
But money can usually fix most things.

As you pointed out we no long have 3 months to go on a trip so the pressure on the out fitter is getting greater.

Also the number of lion shot over a 3 month period is now greater as you can fit 4 trips into 3 months now days. So 4 lion shot against 1. So we know what all that means.

Any way keep you head up. When it comes to making money it is alway tuff for the honest man.

Kind Regards Mark
 
Posts: 376 | Location: Australia | Registered: 22 June 2010Reply With Quote
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Well done to you sir for a great hunt in Zambia, hunting for the experience and look at the results.


martinpieterssafaris@gmail.com
www.martinpieterssafaris.com

" hunt as if it's your last one you'll ever be on"
 
Posts: 639 | Location: Zimbabwe | Registered: 26 January 2009Reply With Quote
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Absolutely Martin. Jim and I spent 5 long minutes with a buff in the long grass and at close quarters. One of eight bulls and whilst I was trying hard to get a look at another with a better head Jim reminded me that in his book inches did count.

To be there in the long grass was enough.


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Posts: 10044 | Location: Zambia | Registered: 10 April 2009Reply With Quote
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Congrats on a fantastic hunt Andrew.' Proper'


martinpieterssafaris@gmail.com
www.martinpieterssafaris.com

" hunt as if it's your last one you'll ever be on"
 
Posts: 639 | Location: Zimbabwe | Registered: 26 January 2009Reply With Quote
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tu2 tu2 Good post Martin , People need to hunt for the enjoyment and not the tape , Its those that hunt for the enjoyment that end up with great memories and more often great trophies
 
Posts: 49 | Location: ZIMBABWE | Registered: 17 February 2009Reply With Quote
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All good points Martin. You missed the not being able to see an animal when its standing at 30 yards infront of them and not being able to hit a barn door at 10'!

But how many guys are man enough to come home and say I cocked it up, they have to blame someone. I have seen my own friends do that let alone clients.

Cheers,

Arjun
 
Posts: 2593 | Location: New York, USA | Registered: 13 March 2005Reply With Quote
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I understand what you are saying Martin. However, there is a big difference between wanting, for example, a 60 pound elephant and expecting one without the work. Is everyone that wants a particular large trophy out of line? Not to me. If the client has unrealistic expectations and is unable and/or unwilling to do what is necessary, that is a problem.
 
Posts: 12159 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: 26 January 2006Reply With Quote
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Larry, I agree with you ' Not everyone ' , what is important is wanting something and working hard for it and then going home happy even if it is not in the salt, give me one of those clients any day.


martinpieterssafaris@gmail.com
www.martinpieterssafaris.com

" hunt as if it's your last one you'll ever be on"
 
Posts: 639 | Location: Zimbabwe | Registered: 26 January 2009Reply With Quote
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I have no trouble with clients with high expectations AND the ability (and time) to make a real effort to secure the trophies they want. Sadly this applies to far too few with a tape measure in their pocket!

Oddly enough, most clients who really come to enjoy a hunt and don't really care about trophy size are the ones with the physical ability and the time (= money) to get great trophies.

It is one of the reasons I have always supported the canned lion industry. It took away all those folk who wanted an MGM lion in under two weeks and who couldn't walk 100 yards up a mountain. It left the wild lion population to those who were prepared to put up with the heat, dust, tsetse fly, malaria and long hard days - and almost without exception, such clients who secured great trophies never bothered to enter them in the SCI record book. Rowland Ward, yes if they were good enough, but not in the bragging book. I refered many many prospective clients to a couple of friends in South Africa who were running canned shoots. The clients got what they really wanted ( a great lion mount or 50"+ buff), a friend made some money and I wasn't being constantly pushed to try shortcuts.

As somebody who enjoys a good hunt, I always 'go the extra mile' when the client is enjoying the hunt. There is no way quicker to get me to stop trying than to try and push me into taking illegal or unethical shortcuts to compensate for the clients lack of time or ability. With the tightening up of the canned operations in SA I once again find clients who have booked to hunt a wild animal but want a monster delivered on request and without effort.
 
Posts: 3026 | Location: Zimbabwe | Registered: 23 July 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Frostbit:
Bravo! It's the experience that counts.

beer

Zim may be in my future someday and perhaps we will discuss these same thoughts by a fire.


Jim,

One year I will swap you Martin for Andrew.
 
Posts: 2953 | Registered: 26 March 2008Reply With Quote
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Great Post Martin. Thank You for a great safari.

The bad news is here in the States a large population of generation X and some babyboomers expect to get it all without working for it and will blame anyone and everyone but themselves when they do not succeed.
 
Posts: 1844 | Location: Sinton, Texas | Registered: 08 November 2006Reply With Quote
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Well said Martin,
When dealing with the general public you are always going to come across a percentage of difficult and unreasonable people, but in the safari industry that percentage seems to be greater than normal and the reason for that is quite simple, money.
Safari hunting is an expensive business and therefore it is to be expected that it is mostly the wealthy that get involved. Being demanding seems to go with the territory. For others, having to save hard and long for a safari also brings its own demand pressures.
I have always been of the opinion that being involved in commercial fishing or shooting of any kind is the most difficult job in the world.
In any other industry you are in control of most of the variables, but when it comes to nature you are at her mercy for the majority of the time. If she decides that it's not going to work out then it wont. You can work with her, but we are all tolerated under her sufferance.
In addition to all of the above anyone these days can get brave on the world wide web and trash someone's lively hood whilst remaining anonymous.
There is also a big difference between a hunter and a shooter and the PH only finds that out when its too late to take it into consideration.
I can feel the frustration in Martin's post and I wish that I could suggest some kind of fix to the situation, but I dont think that there is one.
In my experience people in Zim can normally make some kind of a plan, but I'm sorry to say that I think you will just have to bite the bullet on this one Mart.
 
Posts: 559 | Location: UK | Registered: 17 November 2006Reply With Quote
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Martin:

I am leaving for Botswana in a month. I am holding out for a really big elephant. If I have to walk 20 miles a day, I will and I can. In fact, I would like it.

I know what you are saying. There is one guy that posts here. He bitches and complains how he has been screwed. The PH didn't try and lied to him. This guy weighs over 400 pounds and can't walk 50 yards. All too typical I am afraid.
 
Posts: 12159 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: 26 January 2006Reply With Quote
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Ganyana ,

I also have no problem with a client with high expectations and the ability , but at the same time when they don't get that 60 lbs or that 200pound cat , provided they had a great experience , then they have no one to blame ,all to often we see the operator , ph taking the blame , and as for tape hunters that's another topic altogether ,

It should be about the experience and not about beating the guy next-door
 
Posts: 49 | Location: ZIMBABWE | Registered: 17 February 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by martin pieters:

The most common questions asked are:

What is you average buffalo taken, I am looking for something over 40"
Do your leopard reach 200 pounds? I am looking for a cat with a big head and body!
I am looking for ivory in the range of 60 pounds/ side and matched! Preferably long not short and fat!
It needs to be a black maned lion!


The supermarket shopping mentality has been getting steadily more common over the last two decades or so but the truth is the safari companies and individual PHs are often as much to blame as the hunting clients because they all too often play along with such silly requests & expectations. Confused

It's always such a pleasure to hear a client say something on arrival like 'I'm here to hunt & have fun and we get what we get etc'.......... helluva rare, but a real pleasure! Wink






 
Posts: 12415 | Registered: 01 July 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by martin pieters
What is you average buffalo taken, I am looking for something over 40"
Do your leopard reach 200 pounds? I am looking for a cat with a big head and body!
I am looking for ivory in the range of 60 pounds/ side and matched! Preferably long not short and fat!
It needs to be a black maned lion!


I suppose a leggy blond in my chalet is completely out of the question?

Jeff
 
Posts: 2857 | Location: FL | Registered: 18 September 2007Reply With Quote
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Excellent post Sir, and your observations do not just pertain to hunts in Africa. Guided/Outfitted hunts anywhere in the world has their share of clients with unrealistic expectations. Whether it concerns the size or availability of "trophy" animals in the areas to be hunted, the amount of time involved trying to get a trophy animal, the physical abilities/fitness required versus the clients actual physical fitness and the degree of proficiency required with the clients choice of hunting equipment versus the clients actual abilities.


Even the rocks don't last forever.



 
Posts: 31014 | Location: Olney, Texas | Registered: 27 March 2006Reply With Quote
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I always feel that when I spend my money on a hunt, be it in Africa or anywhere else in the world, that I bought an adventure. Hopefully I will get to take an animal, but the adventure is what I paid for. Hunted with a fellow in B.C. A few years back. $16,000 for a mixed bag hunt. The poor fellow was going crazy figuring out how much each animal averaged out in cost. Really distracted from his trip trying to make sure he shot all 6 animals he paid for.

You know, you sign up for the hunt, spend your money, and go on a trip. Some will be fantastic, many will be good, and occasionally there will be one, that for whatever reason is subpar. But you can choose to have a good trip and enjoy being away and in the bush. Obviously a hunt that is way on the dangerous side or has no food in camp.... Is a different story, but those are extremely rare.
To me a very hard stalk or some other unusual thing on an average animal will be remembered way longer than a giant whatever. Hanging on the wall I will forget horn length quicker than I will the experience. Went tarpon fishing in Florida one year. Has a monster on, and we were in a bad situation. The captain ended up falling over right in front of me. I can still remember his the look on his face, way more than juSt another tarpon.

Good post Martin, hope to be in Omay with you someday.
 
Posts: 718 | Location: va | Registered: 30 January 2012Reply With Quote
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Well said Martin. It is the experience I remember the most about a hunt. Enjoy the people, environment,and the thrill of stocking. One should ask themselves am I a hunter or a shooter?


Tim

 
Posts: 592 | Registered: 18 April 2009Reply With Quote
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Isn't it incumbent on the outfitter to understand the clients wants, before taking the clients money. If the client is 400 lbs and can't get out of his own way and the outfitter takes his money it is then incumbent upon him to produce. It is also incumbent for the client to be honest with the outfitter i e his capabilities (not his monies).

I have heard outfitters say to a client "we can make a plan" while pitching a hunt to them at say DSC or SCI. Also I have never seen a 32" Buffalo in any outfitter photo book, or a 18" Impala.
 
Posts: 5338 | Location: Bedford, Pa. USA | Registered: 23 February 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
I always feel that when I spend my money on a hunt, be it in Africa or anywhere else in the world, that I bought an adventure. Hopefully I will get to take an animal, but the adventure is what I paid for.


tu2 tu2 beer

It would be great if more clients felt that way. In its truest forms and purest sense of the term, it is a hunt, not a murder or assassination, hopefully that is the final outcome of the hunt, but tyo many lose sight of the whole experience.


Even the rocks don't last forever.



 
Posts: 31014 | Location: Olney, Texas | Registered: 27 March 2006Reply With Quote
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Martin,
I do not disagree with you and fully support what you say. The problem does not wholly lie with the hunter however. Take one look at the advertising at the various websites of outfits, go to SCI and look at the videos, listen to the stories of the PH's themselves at the conventions and you can see where Joe Hunter gets his expectations.

I have posted numerous hunt reports, I have made posts about overweight out of shape hunters, I have ranted about not measuring the animal and being excited for the experience. But in the end, many of the stories, most of the controversies are about unmet expectations. The latest fiasco with Karl Stumpf is an example.

Expectation was that Joe Hunter would get a gun permit so he could carry his pet rifle on the hunt. It did not happen and the firestorm has started.

On my recent lion hunt, I borrowed a rifle from the PH trusting the PH would not want a client shooting a lion with a bad rifle. It all worked out fine.

You have a great reputation, you run a good operation. There are a lot of guys who do. But there are a lot of guys who sell whatever they can and will promise you 40" of this and 200 lbs of that. I like Wendell Reich,the agent, reoccuring description of a hunt - "reasonable expectation". That is what we should expect from an operator.

I got into a discuss on AR about "success percentage" on game in whatever he was selling. The bottom line was that he a certain number of permits to sell, he sold them. One or two guys were unsuccessful. He resold the permits and the guy(s) killed his quarry. He then quoted the success rate at 100% as he sold 2 permits and 2 animals were killed, yet more than 2 hunters actually hunted. This was misleading.

All of this to say, I agree with you - expectations are high on expensive hunts. Who creates those expectations? How are those expectations managed in reality? That is the rub isn't it?
 
Posts: 10505 | Location: Texas... time to secede!! | Registered: 12 February 2004Reply With Quote
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Good post Martin.
See you in early August.


NRA Patron member
 
Posts: 2656 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: 08 December 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Also I have never seen a 32" Buffalo in any outfitter photo book, or a 18" Impala.


Die Ou Jagter:
Very well said!! What about the PH who stalks the client to a soft-bossed buffalo, a small leopard, or a 2 1/2 year old lion? Martin made an excellent post but there are two sides to every hunt. Let's not forget trophyfeeitis is a common ailment among many PHs.
Cheers all,
Cal


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Posts: 7281 | Location: Willow, Alaska | Registered: 29 June 2009Reply With Quote
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That is absolutely a perfect statement. Anyone who does not agree with those ethics should take up basket weaving and stay out of the bush!!!!

QUOTE]Originally posted by Ganyana:
I have no trouble with clients with high expectations AND the ability (and time) to make a real effort to secure the trophies they want. Sadly this applies to far too few with a tape measure in their pocket!

Oddly enough, most clients who really come to enjoy a hunt and don't really care about trophy size are the ones with the physical ability and the time (= money) to get great trophies.

It is one of the reasons I have always supported the canned lion industry. It took away all those folk who wanted an MGM lion in under two weeks and who couldn't walk 100 yards up a mountain. It left the wild lion population to those who were prepared to put up with the heat, dust, tsetse fly, malaria and long hard days - and almost without exception, such clients who secured great trophies never bothered to enter them in the SCI record book. Rowland Ward, yes if they were good enough, but not in the bragging book. I refered many many prospective clients to a couple of friends in South Africa who were running canned shoots. The clients got what they really wanted ( a great lion mount or 50"+ buff), a friend made some money and I wasn't being constantly pushed to try shortcuts.

As somebody who enjoys a good hunt, I always 'go the extra mile' when the client is enjoying the hunt. There is no way quicker to get me to stop trying than to try and push me into taking illegal or unethical shortcuts to compensate for the clients lack of time or ability. With the tightening up of the canned operations in SA I once again find clients who have booked to hunt a wild animal but want a monster delivered on request and without effort.[/QUOTE]


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Posts: 410 | Location: Benton, Pennsylvania USA | Registered: 16 December 2011Reply With Quote
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To add to this post I have a PH I have hunted with now on 7 hunts. After the sceond hunt in 01 I ask about a buffalo hunt and said we can make a plan. The first part of the plan was for me to have my knee replaced so I could walk far enough to hunt buffalo. That was proper plan!
 
Posts: 5338 | Location: Bedford, Pa. USA | Registered: 23 February 2002Reply With Quote
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I am sure that everyone wants the best trophy possible. That does not mean that they should expect it always. I know my limitations & will hunt as hard as physically possible & still be able to finish my hunt. I always post that people should train physically for the safari they are going on and I train seriously for thatsafari, every time. Where I find an issue with Martin is that in almost every instance of
trying to sell a hunt the operators seem to dwell on the best animals taken & not the AVERAGE trophy. In my opinion much of the high expectations come from that "selling" of the hunt. Many or maybe even most people coming to that safari area for the first time have no idea
what the best trophy is as opposed the the real average trophy taken - that is all on the operators, they are there, the clients are not aware in most cases. If the advertizing of the hunt is honest & truthfull and made known of the average trophies taken, the client will have a true basis for expecations. As far as the clients abilities the PH must assess that & work with what is there.
 
Posts: 900 | Registered: 25 February 2009Reply With Quote
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Martin, great post, I sympathize with your frustration.

As a dealer in English guns, I get people who demand a 1930s Purdey which "must be totally original, with a 15" all wood stock and 30" barrels."

Or they want 15 different independent, written affadavits from inspectors, confirming the 1870 hammer gun they are thinking of buying for £7,000 is worth £10,000 and will never go wrong and is in 100% condition with absolutely no wear and tear.

Or they send you off to find a very rare pre-war 20-bore Boss sidelock ejector with single trigger, long stock and long barrels - then turn it down because they wanted game scene engraving!

Unfortunately, these people never think they are being unreasonable. Unless they can have whatever they want, they think they can vent their anger on someone else, whose fault it must be.

A sign of the times.

Unfortunately, there are plenty of pasty faced fatties who want the world to think they are Hemmingway and believe that they can be, if they pay enough for someone else to make it so.

You guys are they who must 'make it so' and look out if reality gets in the way - it will be your fault!

I do not think there is anything wrong with deciding you want a 60lb bull, as long as you are prepared to hunt hard for it and go home happy and empty handed at the end of the trip - satisfied that you hunted hard for what you wanted but fortune did not favour you.

To demand a 60 pounder and then sulk if you don't get one is childish.
 
Posts: 160 | Registered: 29 May 2008Reply With Quote
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We always knew there were 2 sides to every coin. I can't speak from a PH's perspective. As a client, when my PH asks me what I want, I tell him. Over 40" on a buffalo. I'm willing to spend the entire hunt looking for what I want. If I get lucky and find it, fantastic. If I don't, it is my decision to go home with a lesser bull or empty handed but that is what I came to hunt for. I can't afford to hunt elephant bulls and the trophy fee for sable is such that when I finally shoot one, I want it to be the one I was looking for. BUT, the PH didn't ask me what I would settle for. If I don't happen upon the buffalo of my dreams, at least I tried. And I don't give the PH any grief over it or badmouth the company or area, it just didn't work out. I have passed on iffy shots on really good animals because I would rather kill them instead of wound them. (have been told by one PH, "Go ahead and take the shot, if the brush gets in the way and you wound it, my trackers will find it") I personally go with high hopes and starry "expectations" but the hunt itself is the goal. If I don't get the one I'm looking for it always gives me reason to save up and go again.
And while a lot of us are some on the heavy side and not in as good a shape as we could be(round is also a shape) when I was younger and in much better shape, I could not afford to go. Hell a 10 day hunt for buffalo was more than I made as a salary in a year. Not all of us are fortunate enough to have the necessary funds to just up and go 30 times or more in a row or more than once a year. For those of us that have to rob from Peter to pay Paul, we can still accomplish our dreams of the lure of the Dark Continent but have to decide if this is it or.........
just my .02
 
Posts: 4214 | Location: Southern Colorado | Registered: 09 October 2011Reply With Quote
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An old quote comes to mind:

"If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen."

I'd bet the internet (and this site in particular) has helped sell way more hunts than it has affected negatively.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with client expectations. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a client posting his objective and subjective observations on a hunt. If these observations really are questionable, the vast majority of the folks (particularly on this site) can see right through the observations in about 3 seconds.

I once again go back to communication. If the liklihood of success in meeting the potential client's expectations is low, then that should be conveyed to the potential client prior to any booking. An outfitter can either do this and risk losing the booking or simply fail to meet expectations and risk getting hammered by the client in response (maybe appropriately so). If client expectations are unreasonable, then it's the outfitter's and/or agent's job to convey this ahead of time. If the potential client wants more than you can offer, then send him packing and avoid the potential for disappointment and all that flows from this.

It's a two way street, guys. Of course, the client has the obligation to appear in a suitable condition with sufficient abilities to conduct the hunt based upon the advice of the outfitter or agent.
 
Posts: 662 | Location: Below sea level. | Registered: 21 March 2010Reply With Quote
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I have to agree!!!!!


Lin Stanton
Email: lindon@mbalabalasafaris.com
www.mbalabalasafaris.com
 
Posts: 134 | Location: Zimbabwe | Registered: 19 June 2012Reply With Quote
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Hello Martin,

We will see you 8/1. BTW, my Son wants a 43" Buffalo and I want a 15' Croc. 60" Kudu would be nice too. Oh, and some 15 lb. tiger fish too.

Cheers


BUTCH

C'est Tout Bon
(It is all good)
 
Posts: 1931 | Location: Lafayette, LA | Registered: 05 October 2007Reply With Quote
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Martin,

You nailed it.


Marius Goosen
KMG Hunting Safaris
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E-mail: info@huntsafaris.co.za
Website: www.huntsafaris.co.za
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Posts: 1491 | Location: Eastern Cape | Registered: 27 October 2010Reply With Quote
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I am in agreement Martin, as you know (recall “toothy” with 2 feet of missing tail!), and to quote myself from my most recent report: “in the end it is really the experience that matters, with the trophy simply a reminder of hours spent on foot in a far off and exciting land, outside of our comfort zone, pushing ourselves beyond the limits of what we thought we were capable of”. I have arrived at this position after more than a few hunts, and admit to feeling much stronger about “inches” in my first couple of guided trips. It does not mean that I am not going to set goals, be is a certain size or age animal or in a certain type of hunting condition, but I am not going to gauge the success/failure of the hunt based on whether or not I shot anything. In fact, pressure to shoot is more of a concern these days, than going home empty-handed.

I do think that the reality of today’s hunting environment is that the pressures are applied in ALL directions. Some hunters have unrealistic expectations, however they obtain them. I feel sorry for the PH’s, never knowing exactly who/what will get off the plane and what they have been told during the sales cycle. But hunting companies are under pressure too, now more than ever as margins are squeezed, to shoot their quota of game. Then there are the operators who call their PH’s on a daily basis and harass if he has not shot anything. Talk about stress.

So, we have hunters who have unrealistic expectations, and operators needing to sell and shoot their quotas to survive, and the PH’s (and the occasional “experience hunters”) caught somewhere in the middle. Factor in the shorter safaris and stress it places on clients and PH, the reality that many areas have less game than they once had, poor shooting, increased logistical hurdles, the reality that not all clients are in great physical shape or of the right mindset, the rising end-cost of safaris, the fact that some PH’s are financially struggling while their mates in other industries with "normal" home lives seem to be thriving, challenges imposed by uncertainty with areas and long-term business sustainability considerations...and the ingredients are there for some difficult situations and the occasional “bad hunt”.

I have come to terms with the fact that this is the environment in which we have to deal with, both as clients and as PH's. And no, it is not the same as it was, even feels different than 10 years ago. But it is still Africa, and it is still wonderful.

Good post Mart…excellent topic for conversation.
 
Posts: 3153 | Location: PA | Registered: 02 August 2002Reply With Quote
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Good point Martin, I always set a goal for my self on age or horn length etc. If I go home empty so be it I will not blame anyone or anything as long as we tried our best.

When I book guided hunts I do all I can to be away as long as possible. It have saved me a few times.. Last leopard hunt I took my leopard on day 15 on a 10 day hunt. (I booked 21days just to be sure Smiler. Another hunt I took my buff on day 21 ( usually a 15 day hunt).
 
Posts: 2638 | Location: North | Registered: 24 May 2007Reply With Quote
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Like Bill, I have goals for a hunt. Sometimes they involve size, sometimes they don't. If I bust my ass and don't get them, oh well. I am most disappointed when I give up and shoot something less than my goal. For me, a hunt should be challenging. I have no desire to shoot an average buffalo unless needed for bait, and I think I have now shot enough zebra. On the other hand, why not be on the lookout for bigger impala, a bigger warthog, a bigger buff, etc, than the one you already have?

Some of my most prized trophies are ones I hunted myself. I shot a rather smallish grizzly when I was 26 on a DIY hunt when I was stationed in AK. I loaded up my backpack, drove over the Copper River bridge toward McCarthy, hiked up the mountains, set up to glass, then waited. The next day I found a bear about 2 miles away. I grabbed my rifle, humped down the mountain, and killed it. It had beautiful fur. I shot several Dall sheep on DIY hunts as well. No monsters, but I did them myself, including two walk in hunts.

Surestrike shot a goat on a DIY hunt a little while back. Not sure how big it was, but I was sure impressed.

Guided hunting and DIY hunts are so far removed from each other it is almost like comparing bowhunting to rifle hunting. Just pick up a mag or turn on the TV...the DIY story is yesteryear's headline.


Don't Ever Book a Hunt with Jeff Blair
http://forums.accuratereloadin...821061151#2821061151

 
Posts: 7583 | Location: Arizona and off grid in CO | Registered: 28 July 2004Reply With Quote
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Let's look at it from another direction. What do I expect as a minimum from the Safari Operator and the PH.

1. Complete honesty and straight forwardness in all dealings - no surprises.

2. The animals that I booked for will be available. If not, what is the plan?

3. Costs will not change from what is booked for.

4. The game that I booked for is available on the area we will be hunting.

5. Clean camp and friendly staff.

6. Hard working PH that doesn't let drinking interfere with the hunt.

7. Nice guy PH a definite bonus.

8. Decent food and accommodations.

What would you add?

465H&H
 
Posts: 5686 | Location: Nampa, Idaho | Registered: 10 February 2005Reply With Quote
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There are two sides to this issue. Martin, I understand where you are coming from and if you get a hunter with unrealistic expectations for his abilities or the area, you find yourself in a bad situation. But the other side of the issue, as several have already stated, is the hunter who shows up with certain expectations, and is willing and able to work for it, and understands that sometimes fate works in your favor and sometimes not.

I've shot a few buffalo, but not a lot. The largest I have is about 36". In October of 2010, I hunted with CMS in the Dande Safari Area, Rich Tabor was my PH. Rich new I wanted to take a buff with my 500NE double rifle, but we were realistic in that our tracker carried my scoped 375 just in case we found that buff of a lifetime, out beyond the range I'm comfortable shooting the iron sighted DR. We took a Tuskless, buff cow, and Sable, in the first 4 days leaving 6 and 1/2 days to focus on a trophy buff bull. We worked hard in the heat. Walked our arses off. We made many stalks that just didn't pan out. On day 5, we crawled up to an old Dugga Boy in open country to a range of about 50 yards. Perfect for the DR and video camera. He was about 36". I told Rich I wanted to pass since we had 5 more days and I've already got a 36" buff. I just wanted to try for something larger and was willing to continue working for it. I was also prepared to go home empty handed if necessary. I went home empty handed as far as the buff bull was concerned, but not really. I had probably the best 10 days of my life during that hunt with Rich. And that included walking miles and miles with blisters on all ten toes. It didn't matter. Hell, we were hunting buffalo in the Dande Safari Area!

The only negative thought I had was that since that 36" bull I turned down was a mature animal, I may have cheated CMS out of the trophy fee. I know they need the clients to be successful beyond just the day rate, but we figured, 5 more days would be no problem. Hey, it didn't work out that time. I'll be back with CMS in the DSA again this October to try again. I'm scheduled with Alan Shearing this time as Rich has moved on to mining.

Alan and I will hunt hard and have a great time, we'll drink a beer or two, and tell a few lies around the campfire. That's what I go for. We'll probably shoot a few animals as well. Looking forward to it Alan!
 
Posts: 8537 | Registered: 09 January 2011Reply With Quote
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