quote:

I once again go back to communication. If the liklihood of success in meeting the potential client's expectations is low, then that should be conveyed to the potential client prior to any booking. An outfitter can either do this and risk losing the booking or simply fail to meet expectations and risk getting hammered by the client in response (maybe appropriately so). If client expectations are unreasonable, then it's the outfitter's and/or agent's job to convey this ahead of time. If the potential client wants more than you can offer, then send him packing and avoid the potential for disappointment and all that flows from this.

Very well said.

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Let's look at it from another direction. What do I expect as a minimum from the Safari Operator and the PH.

1. Complete honesty and straight forwardness in all dealings - no surprises.

2. The animals that I booked for will be available. If not, what is the plan?

3. Costs will not change from what is booked for.

4. The game that I booked for is available on the area we will be hunting.

5. Clean camp and friendly staff.

6. Hard working PH that doesn't let drinking interfere with the hunt.

7. Nice guy PH a definite bonus.

8. Decent food and accommodations.

What would you add?

465H&H

1. Half a crate of well aged whiskey.

2. PH who does not drink whiskey

3. Car

great thread mart ...

heres a funny scenario

email #1 - august 2011
ivan i would like to hunt with you , i am looking for a 60+ inch kudu and two buffalo in the mid forties.

my reply ,
dear mr x we would probably be needing to look inmto two different areas , i sugest for a 60 inch kudu some areas in northern south africa or naibia with the understanding that we will spend a lot of time hiking and glassing hillsides etc a 60 inch kudu is like a 190 class whitetail , they are out there but tough and require work ..

as far as the buffalo i recommend wet season in massailand tanzania , again we will need to be prepared to walk and stalk and turn down many many buffalo , while they do take a lot of great bulls there mid to high forties is an exceptional buffalo and not readily available without hard work and luck ..

2nd email
sounds great ivan , i understand the meaning of hard work when it comes to big trophies i have hunted for most of my life and realise that big trophies take "HARD WORK"

the emails went on back and forth back and forth , i described the remoteness of south africa etc , we set up to hunt march 2012 for the kudu first then onto tanzania for the buffalo ...then i get an email that makes me a little wary.

ivan i was meant to send the deposit last week , but just wanted to check if the camps had permanent power all night ...

yes mr x they do , what do you have in mind

no reply , a week goes past ..

then this email

ivan ,i thought i would mention that i am 480 pounds will this make a difference to our hunt and the reason i need power all night is i sleep with a machine to help my breathing.

my thoughts...
HECK YES THAT MAKES A DIFFERENCE

my reply
mr x , yes that most certainly changes a lot of things , i think we should relook at this and select a property where you can hunt from a blind , there are some good properties in south africa with decent buffalo , and with luck a kudu of the size you want will come in aswell ..

his reply
please note that i dont want to hunt in a place that is in any way fenced and as i said i know the meaning of hard work and also i know what a good trophy is ...i also dont associate africa with sit and wait style of hunting and would rather walk and stalk.

so it goes on and on .... if you need breathing asistance and weigh 400 and something pounds you simply wont convince me you can hunt kudu in the mountains ... i never booked him and politely declined , it was a disaster waiting to happen ...

You could have booked him for free and made money off the video...grin.

quote:

Originally posted by ivan carter:
great thread mart ...

heres a funny scenario

email #1 - august 2011
ivan i would like to hunt with you , i am looking for a 60+ inch kudu and two buffalo in the mid forties.

my reply ,
dear mr x we would probably be needing to look inmto two different areas , i sugest for a 60 inch kudu some areas in northern south africa or naibia with the understanding that we will spend a lot of time hiking and glassing hillsides etc a 60 inch kudu is like a 190 class whitetail , they are out there but tough and require work ..

as far as the buffalo i recommend wet season in massailand tanzania , again we will need to be prepared to walk and stalk and turn down many many buffalo , while they do take a lot of great bulls there mid to high forties is an exceptional buffalo and not readily available without hard work and luck ..

2nd email
sounds great ivan , i understand the meaning of hard work when it comes to big trophies i have hunted for most of my life and realise that big trophies take "HARD WORK"

the emails went on back and forth back and forth , i described the remoteness of south africa etc , we set up to hunt march 2012 for the kudu first then onto tanzania for the buffalo ...then i get an email that makes me a little wary.

ivan i was meant to send the deposit last week , but just wanted to check if the camps had permanent power all night ...

yes mr x they do , what do you have in mind

no reply , a week goes past ..

then this email

ivan ,i thought i would mention that i am 480 pounds will this make a difference to our hunt and the reason i need power all night is i sleep with a machine to help my breathing.

my thoughts...
HECK YES THAT MAKES A DIFFERENCE

my reply
mr x , yes that most certainly changes a lot of things , i think we should relook at this and select a property where you can hunt from a blind , there are some good properties in south africa with decent buffalo , and with luck a kudu of the size you want will come in aswell ..

his reply
please note that i dont want to hunt in a place that is in any way fenced and as i said i know the meaning of hard work and also i know what a good trophy is ...i also dont associate africa with sit and wait style of hunting and would rather walk and stalk.

so it goes on and on .... if you need breathing asistance and weigh 400 and something pounds you simply wont convince me you can hunt kudu in the mountains ... i never booked him and politely declined , it was a disaster waiting to happen ...

Ivan:

Your level of communication was incredible, and your professionalism in decling to undertake such a hunt is admirable. But aren't you also necessarily highlighting the importance of communication and this being a two-way street. How many problems would be avoided in the industry if all outfitters, PHs, and agents adopted your approach?

Sure is incredible how the busy Ivan Carter is able to respond to emails, while some can't b/c it's Africa. I'm betting you probably would even pick up the sat phone and make a call if necessary to clear up any problems or misunderstandings ....

The above is ok but not completely right. I have had to use a Cpap machine for many years to sleep and to really get any rest. Last time I was pronghorn hunting in Wy, USA my machine broke and I was like a walking zombie. I just wanted to shoot my 3 pronghorns and get home. It was not the usual fun trip.
That said I was raised on a ranch, did hard work all my life and have done a huge amount of hiking/hunting in mountains as well as flatland. I was always very fit. BUT I STILL HAD TO USE THE Cpap machine to sleep. I could stay with you in any terrian but needed the Cpap machine to breath at night.
HOWEVER now I am 60 years old and due to doing hard work and playing hard(Hunting/diving/car and boat racing/heavy equipment mech/etc)all my life as well as a bunch of injuries including 2 auto accidents I was suppose to be dead in. I have had major back sugery, a total hip replacement,sugery on both knees(both need replaced) and because of this and other medical problems have gained weight. I no longer can do what I use to do and it bothers me but that is the way it is and I have to accept it. I have a hunt booked and the outfitter/PH knows my limitations as do I. I want nice animals but understand that I will probably not get monster animals due to my condition. I must accept that also. I would like nice animals to mount. But I still want to hunt(even if it is toned down) Africa before I die. I can walk several miles(5+) at a time as long as it is not stomping on brush. A trail is fine. I found this out last year deer hunting where I spent 3 weeks looking for a very large deer, passing up smaller ones. I came home empty but happy. It was my choice to go big or go home. While in Africa I do want to come home with animals as well as the photos, expierence. That is also why I am taking my daughter so I can share the exoierence with her.
If you have medical problems and are grossly over-weight and not fit then you cannot expect to get huge animals IN THE WILD. Accept it.

What I do not want to accept is if the outfitter/PH says there is a certain spieces to hunt and in fact there is not or at least not huntable numbers or sizes they say. Then I would be very unhappy.

Anyway I am looking forward to my 2013 PG hunt in SA even if it is on a fenced area of 22,000 acers and only 12 days long.

quote:

Originally posted by Divernhunter:
The above is ok but not completely right. I have had to use a Cpap machine for many years to sleep and to really get any rest. Last time I was pronghorn hunting in Wy, USA my machine broke and I was like a walking zombie. I just wanted to shoot my 3 pronghorns and get home. It was not the usual fun trip.
That said I was raised on a ranch, did hard work all my life and have done a huge amount of hiking/hunting in mountains as well as flatland. I was always very fit. BUT I STILL HAD TO USE THE Cpap machine to sleep. I could stay with you in any terrian but needed the Cpap machine to breath at night.
HOWEVER now I am 60 years old and due to doing hard work and playing hard(Hunting/diving/car and boat racing/heavy equipment mech/etc)all my life as well as a bunch of injuries including 2 auto accidents I was suppose to be dead in. I have had major back sugery, a total hip replacement,sugery on both knees(both need replaced) and because of this and other medical problems have gained weight. I no longer can do what I use to do and it bothers me but that is the way it is and I have to accept it. I have a hunt booked and the outfitter/PH knows my limitations as do I. I want nice animals but understand that I will probably not get monster animals due to my condition. I must accept that also. I would like nice animals to mount. But I still want to hunt(even if it is toned down) Africa before I die. I can walk several miles(5+) at a time as long as it is not stomping on brush. A trail is fine. I found this out last year deer hunting where I spent 3 weeks looking for a very large deer, passing up smaller ones. I came home empty but happy. It was my choice to go big or go home. While in Africa I do want to come home with animals as well as the photos, expierence. That is also why I am taking my daughter so I can share the exoierence with her.
If you have medical problems and are grossly over-weight and not fit then you cannot expect to get huge animals IN THE WILD. Accept it.

What I do not want to accept is if the outfitter/PH says there is a certain spieces to hunt and in fact there is not or at least not huntable numbers or sizes they say. Then I would be very unhappy.

Anyway I am looking forward to my 2013 PG hunt in SA even if it is on a fenced area of 22,000 acers and only 12 days long.

I would hunt you mate and the hunt would be within your limitations. Agreed sometimes you have to work hard for trophies, some you don't. AR's Frosbit shot a big old Lion in camp while we were having breakfast one morning.

If you cannot put in the extra mile then find a PH who can do that for you and more.

The beauty of hunting Africa is it is always an adventure and even if you don't get all of the trophies you seek, you do come back with a few surprises. Sometimes it is an extraordinary trophy. At times it may be an unintended trophy taken while tracking something else. And on the rare occasion, it may be the a miss or an empty meatpole... but regardless, it is all a part of the adventure and romance of hunting Africa.

Inches and weight are measures that matter to only a few who hunt to impress others. To the person who truly hunts for the love of wild and far-flung places and the animals that inhabit them, a safari is the chance to escape the mundane and civilized and live the life we all covet, if only for a brief while.

And the hunting in Africa, where you pay a trophy fee only if you kill or draw blood is the most democratic of all hunts...

I never will forget, on the last day of a 10 day elephant hunt, taking a break on tracks and looking at Buzz with both of us covered in sweat and slapping tsetses, and saying "and I am paying good money for this" and then both of us laughing like a couple of maniacs in the bush... I ended up with a respectable bull at 1:30 that afternoon.

Or Martin, Steve, Guy and I sitting on a hillside at 12:00 in the blazing sun, finishing off the last of our water after tracking a single dagga boy since 6:00 that morning and hearing Martin say "30 more minutes and we have to head back to the truck". We got up, walked 100 yards and Steve spotted the bull...

Neither of those trophies were my largest, but both memories will be with me forever.

That being said and all, Martin the next time I hunt the Omay I am looking for a 45 incher and Buzz, please tie a 60 pounder to a tree for me, but no pressure guys!

I love this topic and applaud those who hsve contributed to this thread without the in-your-face comments that are all too common here at times.

I think the thing that I learned when I guided hunters is that:
1) if you charge hunters money, you have to take the bad with the good. If you want to "high grade" your hunting companions, it can't be a business transaction. Money complicates things.
2) there are a lot of otherwise good folks who don't have the personal experience to know what reasonable expectations should be, because all they see on tv and in magazines are the 200 lb leopards and 60 lb elephants,
3) folks with money may abuse their station in life - confusing money with power. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
4) too many folks have learned that throwing a tantrum produces results. And even when it doesn't benefit the fit thrower, too many believe it is fine to seek their pound of flesh for a perceived shortfall. And in the age of internet, tantrums are viewed by exponentially more people than in the past.
5) The attraction in hunting is the uncertainty. That's also the fodder for disappointment among inexperienced participants.
6) Clients don't understand that reputable guides and PHs want them to succeeed just as much as the hunter wants to succeed.
7) If the client is a pain in the arse, # 6 gets moderated somewhat. It's human nature.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:

What would you add?

465H&H

1. Half a crate of well aged whiskey.

2. PH who does not drink whiskey

3. Car

Andrew - You certainly know how to move up a hunt with you on my bucket list.

One of my most memorable hunts wasn't in Africa, but involved the type of client being discussed.

Horse-back in elk hunt in Montana. Bunch of guys I don't know, all seem nice enough, but one guy is extremely loud, 'sounds like he's originally from Jersey. Talks about how many elk he's killed and how he's really not interested unless it's a such-an-such inch bull...to our head guide and outfitter...who's in his mid-60's...who likes to drink a bit...and who's wife ran off with one of the younger guides...just a little while before we got there. I was a repeat customer so the head guide was going to personally guide me. I can't tell you how thrilled I was! For once, I kept my big mouth shut, killed a respectable bull, and had the guy wind up liking me and telling me what a good hunter I was. But I must say, watching the situation at camp deteriorate slowly throughout the hunt was the saddest, but weirdly entertaining things I've ever watched.

My point is that no matter where in the world the camp is, the man trying to simultaneously get you your trophy and run a camp has an incredible amount of pressure on him (professionally and sometimes personally). It's a miracle more clients don't have "unfortunate accidents."

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Let's look at it from another direction. What do I expect as a minimum from the Safari Operator and the PH.

1. Complete honesty and straight forwardness in all dealings - no surprises.

2. The animals that I booked for will be available. If not, what is the plan?

3. Costs will not change from what is booked for.

4. The game that I booked for is available on the area we will be hunting.

5. Clean camp and friendly staff.

6. Hard working PH that doesn't let drinking interfere with the hunt.

7. Nice guy PH a definite bonus.

8. Decent food and accommodations.

What would you add?

465H&H

1. Half a crate of well aged whiskey.

2. PH who does not drink whiskey

3. Car With decent tierods

Fixed your quote for you

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Absolutely Martin. Jim and I spent 5 long minutes with a buff in the long grass and at close quarters. One of eight bulls and whilst I was trying hard to get a look at another with a better head Jim reminded me that in his book inches Didn't count.

To be there in the long grass was enough.

I fixed your post Andrew but I knew what you meant.

Actually what I said to you in the tall grass with Buffslo shapes looking like ghosts and having a hard bossed bull in my scope at less than 50 yards standing broadside was, "Dead Buffalo, you want it or not?"

I heard you laugh into your binos and I killed it a half second after you said yes.

There are some wonderful PH's/outfitters/hunters/customers and there are some Fu@ktards. Unfortunately, the bad guys get the most attention, especially when it happens to you. This industry has become like any other. It is nothing but BUSINESS for most. The overall thought is to give you a once in a lifetime hunt so if they screw you over, they got your money and will never see you again. Just make the sale. If you doubt me, listen to the BS at the DSC or SCI conventions. I have to clean my BS filter several times a day. Finding good, honest people anywhere requires a lot of communication as well as a touch of blind faith.
It disappoints me to read some of the comments I see from some professionals such as the "ignore the rules, I am the man on the ground and can fix it" and "hey, it's Africa!" style comments. I have spent my life traveling all over the world and I totally understand red tape and “getting around the system” in 3rd world countries. I also understand the consequences of when things go wrong because “the connection” wasn’t there or someone decides to enforce the rules. After retiring from the army I worked as a coordinator between US Embassies and local law enforcement and military units because of the rapport I had developed over the years with the Host Nations. Most of my time was spent getting US citizens out of trouble (many times hunters!) who put blind faith in “the experienced man on the ground”. Would you do the same in the US/Europe/Australia/etc.? Would you “experienced guys on the ground” book a hunt with a US outfitter and bring your firearm or hunt without the proper documentation? It’s not science, but appears that doing the right thing and being “on the square” are becoming lost character traits. You can’t control nature but you can control your character.

I always ask the PH/guide/outfitter what size animals are taken in his area and what is the average size of the mature animals in that area. I let them know immediately I have zero interest in Rowland Ward, Montgomery Ward, SCI, B&C, NAACP, LMNOP records. I want a mature representative of the species for that area. I ask a lot of questions and I am honest and direct. I provide photos of animals I have killed as well as a letter explaining my expectations, must haves, like to haves, nice to haves wants and needs as well as my limits and capabilities. I began doing this in a very detailed way after being screwed over a couple of times, and it really helps to flush out some of the less than honest people before they get my money.

One of my best hunts ever was outside San Martin de los Andes over 12 years ago. The guide (Pablo) and I chased the biggest free range stag I have ever seen in my life for 4 days. We finally catch him out on an open ridge defending his harem and stalk/crawl to within 400 yards of him. The wind was hawking. By this time the fight was over and the king and his harem were grazing but still on high alert. We knew this was as good as it gets and if we blew this stalk we would probably lose him for good. Pablo asked did I think I could make the shot.

I am a very good shot (and can read wind) and at that time I practically lived on a range when not deployed and regularly shot at ranges as far as 1000 yards with various rifle systems. I had put a lot of rounds through my 35 Whelen, knew the rifle and cartridge and had killed numerous animals with it. I also knew if I wounded this magnificent beast he would go over the ridge and probably never be found. From a steady, prone position, I told Pablo “no puedo” (I cannot) and cleared my rifle.

We reversed our stalk back to the horses, grabbed 2 bottles of wine some bread and various fiambres (olives, dried meats, cheese) and returned to our original position. From there we watched the “king of the mountain” defend his harem 2 more times before the sun set and we could no longer see the stag or the Lanin volcano in the distance. During the night, we heard noises that made us think the horses had broken the picket and were wandering off. We turned on our flashlights and there not 15 yards away stood “the king”. It was the last time we saw him. At their request, I shot a rag horn the last day so the vaqueros that worked for Pablo would have some meat for the winter. It is one of my best hunts ever.

Where am I going with all of this? Everyone (guide, outfitter, hunter) must be brutally direct and honest during their communication and coordination. Anything less will leave some or all feeling miserable and cheated. If you must have the biggest and you have physical, as well as time limitations (hunters), I am sure a preserve can meet your needs. If you cannot meet my expectations (PH’s/guides/outfitters), let me know so I can make my decision to look further or adjust my expectations. Since it seems to be a big issue on the AR forum now, I am 6’ tall, 225 pounds (and dropping) and walk 2+ miles, 5 times a week. My wife is a gym addict. We really want to go to Africa for plains game next year. Anyone want to take us hunting?

quote:

Originally posted by martin pieters:
It is getting more and more common these days for everyone to jump to conclusions, place the blame on someone else, comment unnecessarily before the fact are out and condemn someone via internet jut to start a post/ topic or perhaps boredom, perhaps because you feel it is your right.

I need to post this for many reasons and I am sure there will be those that will have their say and they are very much entitled to it as PH's ( and I speak for a lot of them ) have theirs.

Modern day hunting and expectations.

We have to realize folks that the era of Selous and Bell, Selby and .......are over yes they conjure up memories of old and their stories and nuances make for romantic and exciting ' old African ' memories, but lets be honest, this is 2012, a lot has changed. We no longer have the time to conduct 3 month safaris throughout untamed Africa, people no longer have the time and or resources to take off ' from work ' for a month, there are very few areas without boundaries, so what happens, safaris get shorter, yet expectations remain the same. The most common questions asked are:

What is you average buffalo taken, I am looking for something over 40"
Do your leopard reach 200 pounds? I am looking for a cat with a big head and body!
I am looking for ivory in the range of 60 pounds/ side and matched! Preferably long not short and fat!
It needs to be a black maned lion!

These are some of the questions asked each and every time via email and phone and at the shows, really!!
Lets be honest with ourselves as hunters as custodians to the wildlife of Africa , of the world, why do we hunt?

Well I would like to think it is a tradition passed down through the ages, and I would like to think it is because of the excitement of the actual stalk and perhaps because it is a nice way for many people to relax whilst on a ' safari holiday '. But no , to most it is because of inches, because of what my friend has on his wall, because I am trying to have the biggest and best!

This is what I and many other PH's think, if you want a 43 " buffalo, a 60 pound elephant, a black maned lion and a 200 pound leopard, then be prepared to walk 30 km's / day, sit for hours on end in an uncomfortable blind with no water and little or no food, track buffalo mile after mile and never see one big enough and pass up many lion that may or may not have a decent mane despite their maturity, be prepared to go home empty handed because lets be honest you have set the goals! If you have a sugar problem, a knee problem, are overweight and cannot walk, can't see well or cannot climb mountains, surely you should lower you sights and your expectations.
Your inability to walk long distances, to sleep on rocks and go without water is not anyone's fault. But when you are home, don't go and blast a PH, an operator, and area because you ' failed'! After 7, 10 or 14 days in an area, what makes you an authority , or gives you the right to think you can inform the world and everyone must listen

Too many times we have ( and more so these days ) an internet trial where someone gets blasted and his reputation comes under question, whose fault was it a genuine PH, operator , area fault, or the inability for many people to understand their abilities and have reasonable expectations. Once there is a post on the internet good or bad, it remains there and can be very damning to a persons credibility.

We all want the yesteryear of Africa, but sadly it is gone and things will continue to change. Make sure your expectations are in line with your abilities! If more hunters could be like the minority and say I hunt for the experience as long as it is mature, the hunting world in general will be a better place to enjoy our heritage

Feel free to blast the heck out of me!

Martin,
I agree with your post and especially the part I bolded above. I hunt purely for the sake of hunting. For me...it is all about the hunt. Sure sometimes I pass on animals due to size or quality but I make that decision and am happy with it even if I strike out. I could go home from a hunt with out pulling the trigger and still be satisfied if all was conducted "proper".

With that said sir...there is one caveat. PH/outfitters such as yourself may be in minority as well. Certainly there are many many honerable PH's and outfitters...don't get me wrong. But...there are many "shysters" in the outfitting industry as well as many who could give a rat's @$$ about wildlife and its conservation.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by martin pieters
What is you average buffalo taken, I am looking for something over 40"
Do your leopard reach 200 pounds? I am looking for a cat with a big head and body!
I am looking for ivory in the range of 60 pounds/ side and matched! Preferably long not short and fat!
It needs to be a black maned lion!

I suppose a leggy blond in my chalet is completely out of the question?

Jeff

I certainly hope not ...

quote:

Originally posted by Bob Keeler:
When I saw the pictures of the PH Alan, I'm to hunt with this Sept with CMS and he looks like a marathon runner I had to think of a some options as I had hunted with other tougher than nails Zim PH's in the past Richard Cooke, William Mills And Ross of HHK and decided that I needed up front mercy. This poor PH that is to monitor my daughter and I on our TUSKER Safari doesn't know us from Adam so I just e-mailed them at CMS that not to laugh when I meet them getting off of the plane as maybe, just maybe they will be able to roll me faster than they can walk me. Currently, I haven't heard from them. Though I realize they are very busy.

I offered to buy too small of shoes for the PH Alan on my arrival so I can get him foot sore enough to at least I will be able see him in my binoculars as we hunt but Buzz didn't think that would make any difference.

Oh I've tried to get better as my wife started me on a diet back in Feb and I did pretty well till I got hungry. I'm not disappointed as she is determined and hasn't given up on me as over the last few months she has me on an aerobic exercise routine of dusting and vacuming the house. Holly cow, there is a bunch of bending twisting in these activities and I just can't get over how much sweat comes out of those invisible holes on my bald head when I'm cleaning as directed.

The above tells you how tough I am as I can admit to the above statements.

Right now I have an e-mail out there trying to figure out how hot it is going to be in NW Zim in Sept as I think I still need to get in shape most importantly my bald head seasoned-- really sun tanned so I don't go down with a BHSB--Bald Headed Sun Burn.

As time has passed with my few experiences I have come to the conclusion some of these ZIM PH'S are super human so I've decided I would admit my frailities very quickly upfront.

I just hope the CMS team doesn't reject me on my arrival and send me home.

Don't worry! A good PH will set a pace that you and your daughter can handle and by all accounts CMS PHs are of that type.

465H&H

Jeff:

Recon they could get 2 for Botswana?

quote:

Originally posted by DavidAk:
You could have booked him for free and made money off the video...grin.

not sure about that. who wants to watch a land whale wallow around the bush?? there is simply NO way such a morbidly obese person is going to be able to make a video worth watching! oops, don't mean to offend our weight challenged posters.

About 30 yers ago, when I arrived in Vic Falls, Roy Vincent picked me up from the airport.

On the drive to Matetsi, he asked me what animals I was looking to hunt.

"Anything you have on quota"
"Any particular trophy we should concentrate on?"

"Nope. Anything you think I should shoot"

That was a 21 day safari.

I think I shot 27 animals, at least 15 of which would qualify for the record book, including a possible #1 reedbuck!

Shot 15 minutes out of camp early one morning!

I have been going on safari ever since, and my attitude towards how big a trophy is has not changed.

I would like to shoot an old, big trophy.

But it is not the holy grail of my hunt.

In fact, no one carries a measuring tape on our safaris.

I have shot one buffalo of 49 inches. It was probably the easiest buffalo I had ever shot.

We were on our way to a leopard blind, when we saw two bulls running close by.

We jumped out of the truck and shot both of them.

I am a firm belirver that one gets a big trophy more due to good luck rather than hard work.

It is a matter of being at the right place at the right time.

This has been demonstrated to me so many times on safari.

Of course, spending more time in the bush will give you better chance at a reasonable trophy.

Martin,

You also have to admit that once in a while you get a client who says that they just want a hard headed old bull and have fun doing it.

Bravo Martin ! Well a lot of people today think that because they want it, they should have it and that applys to some hunters regardless of how they're prepared or how out of whack their expectations are. We all need to do our own honest inventory regarding our abilities and performance.Most people who base their success in the outdoors solely on what they get have many dissapointng moments and not much fun, I know, I've hunted and fished with many of them. I've booked my first Buff hunt with you this September at Chifudze. This was very influenced by your prompt, professional no bullshit response to all my inquiries. Neither of us said anything about 'length' as there are no guarantees in hunting. Hell the excitement of going is worth the money

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
There are two sides to this issue. Martin, I understand where you are coming from and if you get a hunter with unrealistic expectations for his abilities or the area, you find yourself in a bad situation. But the other side of the issue, as several have already stated, is the hunter who shows up with certain expectations, and is willing and able to work for it, and understands that sometimes fate works in your favor and sometimes not.

I've shot a few buffalo, but not a lot. The largest I have is about 36". In October of 2010, I hunted with CMS in the Dande Safari Area, Rich Tabor was my PH. Rich new I wanted to take a buff with my 500NE double rifle, but we were realistic in that our tracker carried my scoped 375 just in case we found that buff of a lifetime, out beyond the range I'm comfortable shooting the iron sighted DR. We took a Tuskless, buff cow, and Sable, in the first 4 days leaving 6 and 1/2 days to focus on a trophy buff bull. We worked hard in the heat. Walked our arses off. We made many stalks that just didn't pan out. On day 5, we crawled up to an old Dugga Boy in open country to a range of about 50 yards. Perfect for the DR and video camera. He was about 36". I told Rich I wanted to pass since we had 5 more days and I've already got a 36" buff. I just wanted to try for something larger and was willing to continue working for it. I was also prepared to go home empty handed if necessary. I went home empty handed as far as the buff bull was concerned, but not really. I had probably the best 10 days of my life during that hunt with Rich. And that included walking miles and miles with blisters on all ten toes. It didn't matter. Hell, we were hunting buffalo in the Dande Safari Area!

The only negative thought I had was that since that 36" bull I turned down was a mature animal, I may have cheated CMS out of the trophy fee. I know they need the clients to be successful beyond just the day rate, but we figured, 5 more days would be no problem. Hey, it didn't work out that time. I'll be back with CMS in the DSA again this October to try again. I'm scheduled with Alan Shearing this time as Rich has moved on to mining.

Alan and I will hunt hard and have a great time, we'll drink a beer or two, and tell a few lies around the campfire. That's what I go for. We'll probably shoot a few animals as well. Looking forward to it Alan!

Todd:

This illustrates my feelings exactly. I have had 3 buff quotas twice in Tanzania, and both times I left the third one open, as I didn't see a bigger bull than one I had already shot. That was fine with me; I know I would have been bummed if I would have shot something just to escalate the body count.

You did the right thing IMO.

while i agree with most that has been said a hunter is not made by the size of his waist but how much he is willing to do to get what he wants. I have been on over 30 african safaries and have had many guys go with me that in 21 days had to take a day off and they were i twice as good a shape as myself. One thing is while they like hunting I love hunting and with some physical limitations you can do enough work to get your trophy. Saeed said it,some is luck. I usually want my PH to know what I will shoot and if he says shoot I generally do exception lion. I to have to use a C-pap machine because of sleep apnea which can kill you. That does not mean you can not hunt. Frankly I have been with at least 10 people that should have a machine and don't even know it. That being said every outfitter and PH i have told i use one has tried his best to accomadate me sometimes it can not be done, and I will do the best I can but if all is required is burning a little extra fuel for me to use machine then burn it. It has been my experience that if you tell your PH the truth about your limitations if any, he will see that you will do whatever you have to to get what you are after they will help as much as possible but they to should not cave in to the guy that wants a world record to book and is told he will get that.There is some on both sides!

Never shot an animal I didn't consider a "trophy" including my first whitetail---85 lb doe

I have never heard of a CPAP machine until now. I just googled it and was struck by the thought that someone I know could benefit greatly from it.

Thanks!

Sleep apnea is serious business .

I hope to always be a realist and definitely let the outfit I am hunting with know that. I was born with bad knees and can get where I need to go eventually but I won't be winning any speed races. I am very upfront about that and in return know that I most likely won't shoot as big an animal as a guy that is physcially superior and I am okay with that. I know it up front and it is what it is.


I do have expectations of what I think any outfit should provide and in return what I need to do to hold my part of the bargain.

Are some peoples expectations to high? Absolutely. I do know there are a lot of outfits out there that guarantee a specific size or better and fail to remember it is hunting and not killing.

I think the buyer and seller can both be deceiving at times; unfortunately.

quote:

Originally posted by talentrec:

quote:

I once again go back to communication. If the liklihood of success in meeting the potential client's expectations is low, then that should be conveyed to the potential client prior to any booking. An outfitter can either do this and risk losing the booking or simply fail to meet expectations and risk getting hammered by the client in response (maybe appropriately so). If client expectations are unreasonable, then it's the outfitter's and/or agent's job to convey this ahead of time. If the potential client wants more than you can offer, then send him packing and avoid the potential for disappointment and all that flows from this.

Very well said.

Yes, agree but it doesn't happen. The reason for the questions is trying to get a feeling for what a good animal is in that area. Not the largest one ever shot there. Lots of folks in the outdoor business are great with a sales pitch to get you to spend your money!
For myself, I figure I'm paying for an 'expert' to do the judging and know if its a good animal for the area. If the ph says it it, I believe him. I am also one who will take something smaller if its the only one seen or I am out of time. I do not like returning home emptyhanded.

Regarding sleep apnea, I carried a cpap maching along for a couple of years. I then discovered PROVENT/SR. These little plugs work for me, maybe not as good as the maching but for a few weeks they are good.

Talk about going the extra mile, one year on Lake Karibia we fried the battery I had for the maching and the camp hooked 3 marine batteries togeather to run the maching each night - yea it took 3 12V to run the maching all night.

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Let's look at it from another direction. What do I expect as a minimum from the Safari Operator and the PH.

1. Complete honesty and straight forwardness in all dealings - no surprises.

2. The animals that I booked for will be available. If not, what is the plan?

3. Costs will not change from what is booked for.

4. The game that I booked for is available on the area we will be hunting.

5. Clean camp and friendly staff.

6. Hard working PH that doesn't let drinking interfere with the hunt.

7. Nice guy PH a definite bonus.

8. Decent food and accommodations.

What would you add?

465H&H

Well running hunting truck preferably with winch and Diff Lock would be a bonus.
Oh and Double rifle Toting, good looking Female PH.

Martin,
An interesting post, no doubt of that. A decade ago, I was devastated after coming up empty on a "slam-dunk" caribou hunt in Quebec. Two more such trips yielded similar results. Like most lifelessons, it was painful. By the fourth trip, the only results that mattered were the experiences. My wife and I just returned from Chewore North. We prepared well, but shot rather poorly. When the first 8 days were gone, we had an old warrior lioness taken while stalking, a tuskless that resulted in a charge, and a grand old dagga boy tracked up "proper". Lucky? Hell yes! Karma? Who knows, or cares! The experience? Priceless! Work hard, do your best, and be content with whatever does or does not come. To hell with the tape measure, someone will always shoot something bigger than you have.

quote:

Well running hunting truck preferably with winch and Diff Lock would be a bonus.

Ozzie:

If half the rigs appearing in posts had a decent set of 'grabbers' instead of street tyres, the winch and diff lock would almost be superfluous.