I booked a hunt over two years ago and had a contracted price. I knew trophy fees were government controlled, so when they were raised I understood the cost being pasted on to me. Now getting my invoice balance, I am asked to pay the current safari price instead of the contracted price, is this the norm or am I right for being a little chapped after they have had 50% of my daily rate and 50% of my trophy fees for over two years? What is the opinion of those who have been to Africa before?

If your contract states a certain daily rate that you booked at that is what you should pay. If unforseeable government fees have risen considerably you may have to eat it. Hard to say conclusively without knowing more about the planned safari, country etc. Being in the business I know I can book clients all the way into 2011 without expecting any increases other than government fees.

Mark

If you had a written agreement on the price it should stand. Trophy fees, as you note, are another issue. Did you use a booking agent or go direct to the outfitter/PH?

If you contracted and paid a deposit to them, they should not change the price of their services. A contract is a contract.

You contracted at the a stated price... The trophy fees upped you have to pay... but not a new safari rate...

Mike

Direct with the outfitter, though not a lawyer, seems to state hunt would cost x amount excluding trophy fees, dipping packing, gratuities, ect... same as most outfitted hunts I've been on.

Had a similar issue with a hunt I booked with a gentleman named Bruce Grant.

We discussed rates, and booked a DG hunt almost 2 years out. When I got the bill, it was at least 10% more than the past year.

Bruce pointed out in our contract, it stated we would pay that year's prevailing rates. I do not remember any such provision, but it was there in black and white.

Does your contract have that clause?

If not, I can understand and appreciate your frustration. Anyone would be chapped.

I hope this resolves satisfactorily. If not, please share the details.

Have a great hunt regardless,

I agree with what others have said as to what is the norm. You need to read your contract as to what you agreed to. However, I have one additional question. You paid 50% of the trophy fees as part of the deposit? What, anticipated tropy fees? All possible trophy fees? Most curious.

They required a deposit and now the balance paid in full of the entire bag which any unused portion will be refunded. My first safari to South Africa, anticipated trophy fees were paid in advance and unused monies were returned, but those were required, just three months out versus 50% paid two years in advance. I will give a full hunt report upon my return from this hunt and hopefully there will be no other concerns. Thanks for all of your input, I now feel some what justified, to myself, for being pissed.

Gentlemen,

I think we need to be realistic here.

Paying a deposit only guarantees that you will have that slot kept for you.

It is NOT a price guarantee.

And when we have a financial situation as we are in right now, I think it is unfair to expect prices quoted 2 years ago to be the same today.

So if there is no specific mention in the contract that the price is guaranteed, I am afraid you will have to pay the new price.

I was in about the same boat last year. Made deposit 2 yrs in advance, and actually was just given estimates on daily rates (RSA outfitter with Zim connections; not sure which Zim operator he'd be working with). When the time for bills came, the day rate was higher than his estimates.

I did some mental math and figured out that if I'd booked a hunt in Zim for the animals I took, it would have been about 6 grand more. More importantly I decided that the money wasn't worth letting it sour my otherwise good memories.

I think the definition of "fair" is LARGELY dependant upon what is written in the contract. I do not however, think the absence of any such provision for daily rates means you are 100% stuck with future ones. Otherwise, what is to keep an outfitter from doubling daily rates on every newly booked client? We all know that published daily rates are often higher than what is actually paid by cleints on the ground. Frankly, I am also having trouble thinking of anything I have ever put a deposit down on that didn't also have at least some element of the price guaranteed. Imagine putting $10000 down on a car to be delivered in 6 months. Then in six months, the car dealer comes to you and says, "sorry, the car now costs $5000 more....you must take delivery or sacrifice your whole deposit"? Not gonna happen and shouldn't happen in the safari business either. I don't think the purpose of the deposit is only to guarantee a slot to the client but also offers the outfitter knowledge that he is covered for that slot. The deposit is designed to reduce risk to both parties in the transaction and that should mean some price stability for the client.

As an aside, I don't think it is at all uncommon for operators to guarantee present daily rates (though not trophy fees of course) on booking. I just had conversations with a Burkina Faso outfitter who was willing to do so for a hunt two years out. Frankly, ESPECIALLY in this economic climate, for an outfitter in Zim or RSA to have done such a thing a year ago would likely have been to the outfitters benefit and not the clients.

In light of the present economy it would seem that the price should be less and not more.

PRECISELY ! Outfitters cant have it both ways!

Ozark,

How much deposit did you pay for your hunt? Pull out now if it is not that much because there are currently great deals everywhere for African hunts and I bet you can make up your loses with better and less expensive hunts. Especially since you can leave on short notice.

I suggest that you hammer out this dispute with the outfitter before you step on the plane, otherwise you are going to have stressful hunt to say the least. You will be repeating in your mind the entire time you are there that you got F#@*& no matter what trophies you get. And if there are any unexpected problems, which usually occurs during every hunt...... this will compound your pain that much more. Ultimately there will be bad blood.

On the other side, the outfitters have increased expenses and with less booked hunts, I doubt it if they can cost shift their loses from your hunt onto future hunts and clients.

They need to make a profit too.


Suggest to the outfitter that you understand their increases in costs and that you will pay the additional monies, however, in return you want a guarantee best trophies in that concession and they need to toss in some additional animals at no charge. for example: wart hogs, bird hunting, few zebra, couple extra buffalo ....maybe supply some female entertainment at the camp or whatever you desire?



Does this make sense to you and our AR colleagues?


dale

Ozark
As per the norm, I agree with Saeed. Read his post carefully. Every outfitter works differently I guess, but it all comes down to the contract you were presented, looked at, and signed your name to. Our firm requests a 40% of daily fees to book the dates and quotas. Our contract says hunts booked two years in advance may see a increase in both daily rates and ,or trophy fees. When we establish the 2011 prices, we tell the client if there was an increase , what it was, and then they can cancel without loosing any deposit. Has worked out real well over the years for all involved.
On another note, just because the world financial situation is strained, the African outfitters costs ARE NOT COMING DOWN. They continue to rise, especially those who are forced to deal with corrupt and near sighted governments and councils who have zero grasp of the financial workings of the world. Their answer is ALWAYS raise the price to the outfitter and pass the worries on to them.
Good luck on your safari Ozark.

Will the daily rates payable at the time of the contract be the rates that you'll pay for an African safari two years later?

The answer depends on what, if anything, is actually written into your contract on that subject, and also on whether the outfitter is willing to honor it.

If the contract clearly provides that the rates are fixed at the time of the contract, then the answer is that the rates should not go up. Raising them would be a breach of contract by the outfitter. Outfitters have been known to breach their contracts.

So, what is the hunter to do in such a case?

First, let me say that suing the outfitter for breach of contract is generally not a real option. Costs of suit, international logistics and the inordinate time required generally do not warrant doing that, even for the most expensive safaris.

So, the hunter's options are to cancel his safari (which he has been planning and anticipating for two years) and get his deposit back (and even then a fight may be required, since by raising his rates the outfitter has already demonstrated that he is not trustworthy), or go ahead with the safari at the higher price.

The hunter can also file a bad report on the outfitter with The Hunting Report or post such a report on an internet hunting forum such as AR and seek redress from the outfitter in that manner. Doing that may provide some satisfaction, and may even, in some cases, be a workable alternative to expensive, difficult and time-consuming litigation.

But the best approach by far is to do business only with those you can trust, and don't do business with those you don't or shouldn't trust. Admittedly, it's not always easy to separate the former from the latter, but with some due diligence, an informed judgment can generally be made.

Don't get me wrong. I believe in contracts. A contract in the context of a safari has the real benefit (if it is properly drafted) of setting forth very clearly the business terms of the transaction.

This can avoid misunderstandings between trustworthy people acting in good faith - and can also give the hunter some moral and legal authority if and when he is forced to deal with a dishonest outfitter, either in the "bad hunting report" context, or as unlikely as it may be, in litigation.

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
The hunter can also file a bad report on the outfitter with The Hunting Report or post such a report on an internet hunting forum such as AR and seek redress from the outfitter

".....and get hammered by every satisfied former client, potential future client who thinks the PH walks on water, and the US based booking agent who posts on the same forum."




Best option is, as you assert, to find someone you trust or have good past experiences with, and stick with them!

Price increase has been paid and will go and have a great time hopefully. I just thought I would get some opinions on the principle of the increase. I think my only realistic option is to go and if not completely satisfied not become a returning client. I hope their service and quality of game can overcome my small aggrevation.

quote:

Originally posted by tendrams:

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
The hunter can also file a bad report on the outfitter with The Hunting Report or post such a report on an internet hunting forum such as AR and seek redress from the outfitter

".....and get hammered by every satisfied former client, potential future client who thinks the PH walks on water, and the US based booking agent who posts on the same forum."

tendrams - I agree that you had better not open that can if you can't stand a few worms.

ozark - Good luck and best wishes for a great safari.

Shame on you Mrlexma.

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:
Shame on you Mrlexma.

Wendell, just for that, I will fill my pen with poison for the AR hunting report that I will write if you don't personally ensure my complete and unreserved satisfaction (as you promised you would do in front of several witnesses) on the upcoming hunt that I have booked with you!

Also, be warned that I expect that you will make good on your promise to personally escort my trophies (which had better all be gold medal, as you likewise promised they would be in front of the same witnesses) all the way to my front door!

Our else we will resurrect the infamous L. A. from her quiet repose (at least for now).

....or else we will call Doug Chester, Esq.

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:
Shame on you Mrlexma.

Wendell, just for that, I will fill my pen with poison for the AR hunting report that I will write if you don't personally ensure my complete and unreserved satisfaction (as you promised you would do in front of several witnesses) on the upcoming hunt that I have booked with you!

Also, be warned that I expect that you will make good on your promise to personally escort my trophies (which had better all be gold medal, as you likewise promised they would be in front of the same witnesses) all the way to my front door!

And that goes double for me!

hi, just out of curiosity what country will you be hunting in and who with?