I'm just mulling over in my mind whether or not all these tv hunting shows are good for our sport or not. They have certainly spurned interest in africa in particular and intrigued you people the world over. But then i see hosts shooting young animals (i even saw some guy shoot a bighorn ewe the other day on tv) the constant loud music background and the whooping and hoddering after a kill might be great in the film world, but does it belong in the real hunt? I believe i have enjoyed Saeeds dvd's more than anything else because it is real people doing real hunts. That is not to infer that the TV hunts are fake (though some are) but i don't even see walter jumping around like he had ants in his pants because he killed something. I know there are sponsors, but does product shilling every 3 minutes do the sport any good??Certainly bowhunting is a special hunt, but does having the hunter shoot out of a well equipped hide next to a waterhole seem appropriate? Now i'm certainly not one to throw stones, but i do know enough that i wouldn't put on the air that i was trying to kill a 8 year old dall ram. The laws of conservation would dictate this as no good. The guy that shoots his deer at high noon and retrieves it at midnight to the words of great shot ralph certainly make obvious errors to the young minds out there. Yet if we don't interest the you people in hunting, will the politics of the world deny them the adventure. I don't have the answer. I do know that i find myself watching fewer and fewer shows because of forest fairy actors but the young watch a lot more tv than me.

TV is money driven...period. The branding of everything down to our underwear is what brings in the money and makes sales, which in turn pays saleries. I strongly dislike 10 minutes of hunting and 20 minutes of advert's. What a crock! What draws an evil eye from our hater's are the over celebration (on film) over a kill. Could you imagine the Anti's reaction if after Bubba shot his deer he paused, put his hat over his heart and asked the audience for a moment of silence? Dang, if I wouldn't join him But then I respect all wildlife...even the dead ones. Cheers, LDK

quote:

Originally posted by L. David Keith:
I strongly dislike 10 minutes of hunting and 20 minutes of advert's.

+1

But that being said, if that is what it takes to see a good ten minutes on a TV station I am paying for anyway so be it.

I personally have a problem with advertising, suttle or not, on a DVD you have to pay for. I voiced that already in another thread and it was not well received.

As far as whether it's good or bad for hunting, my wife had no interest in hunting but came with me on Safari. For a year and half before the trip we watched any and all Africa hunting TV footage we could find. She learned a lot about the critters, can identify most at a glance, and left Africa with a greater understanding of what hunting is (not just dead critters).

I think TV footage helps. If an anti takes a short clip and uses it for negative press I think they would have found what they wanted for propaganda somewhere else like Youtube anyway.

Butch,

I didn't know anything about hunting TV until recently and only know very little now but one thing I did learn is that the audience dictates most of what we see. Give that 10 seconds of thought and it becomes clear that of course the shows are about what most hunters want to see. People do want to see all the carrryings on that others find so offensive. And the endless bowhunting treestand hunts??? Well that's what hunting is to a huge chunk of us that can't afford anything else.

So I think hunting TV is good for hunting because it provides the 90% of American hunters that may never go on a guided hunt shows they can identify with. They can see themselves and future generations doing these hunts. Therefore it promotes the sport for all of us.

Mark

There are a very few hunting shows I like these days. Mostly they cause me to cringe at the thought of these people representing my sport. To put it simply, I find most of the shows very humiliating.

Brian

I watch certain shows,, like Tracks Across Africa like some people always turn into watch that Tv reality garbage. I take the advertisements with a grain of salt but the money is what makes the world go around. I am like many here,, when hunters start that fist pumping,, knuckle bumping, whooping etc.,, the channel usually gets changed. Some hand shaking and back pating are fine with me,, I am usually very emotional after a good hunt and shot that I have a hard time even talking,, especially saying anything meaningful.... I usually sit and give thanks, at least a silent prayer of sorts,,,I think every animal deserves that moment of pause and reflection... maybe I am just getting to be an old fart,,

I'm a big fat snuff dipping, NRA card carrying, meat eating redneck so I think I'm solidly in the target market for most of the hunting programs. For the most part, I don't care for them.

I've killed some animals that to me were trophys and never acted the way these fellows do. Well shut my mouth, slap yo momma, yeehaw...give me a break I'm embarrassed for them most of the time. I'm not sure if they are putting on for the camera because they think that's what people want or it's really a conspiracy to make us look stupid.

Humiliating is a good description.

I turned on the Outdoor channel to watch a few commercials and was annoyed by all the Ted Nugent interruptions. (a quote from my brother)


I'll say it again...the act of hunting is so esoteric to think that anyone other than hunters can watch a show and understand what is actually happening is about like explaining sex to a virgin; you can instruct on the mechanical aspects but it's what is happening inside that counts. ;-)

In general, I think broadcast shows are bad for hunting. I do like a well-produced DVD though, but even those are getting rare.

I watch them but could do without the weinder extender pills and penis pumps they were advertising on dangerous game last week. I know its all about dollars but I spit out some good bourbon after seeing the penis pump was medicare approved.

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:
about like explaining sex to a virgin.

I am SO going to steal that line.

I record only 3 shows for viewing. Through the years I've lost interest and at times I'm not even sure why I record those. I watched an episode, of I think it was TAA, earlier this year and a guy killed 2 buffalo almost together. He jumped up and down and screamed for 10 minutes like a little girl. I was embarrassed for him.. Hunting has been the one constant in my life from child to grandfather. When killing becomes that important to me that I exhibit that kind of behavior I will quit hunting.
I will add that when I do watch a hunt on TV, I typically watch up to the shot, then fast forward to the end. With the way most shows demonstrate the proper way to act after a kill, I'd rather skip that lession.

I wish hunting shows would state exactly what they paid for the hunts they are filming. The best shows, IMO, are done by regular guys who paid full price and agreed to be filmed. I don't care to watch the same guys over and over.

I know for a fact many of these guys ask for free hunts. Some have even asked booking agents on this site. So let's be honest about the price you paid for the hunt.

If you film a show and had to pay full price, that says a lot about the outfitter. If you film a hunt without having to pay a dime, it tells me that outfitter needs the advertising.

I try not to watch them. The few I have seen did no favor to our sport. With very little editing, they could have been used in PETA and HSUS membership drives.

Bill Quimby

The more I watch, the less I like them.

It is pretty easy to get jaded with 24/7 trophy this and trophy that hunt.

Back when I was a kid, Curt Gowdy hosted The American Sportsman and that was about perfect.

Just enough to keep you dreaming.

Today's shows are more like XXX porn with nothing left to the imagination.

I agree with Nicholosi. Killing is personal. I enjoy most of the African shows. I enjoy realistic Alaskan shows. I can't handle the "high five" knuckle slapping when some guy bushwhacks Bambi's daddy. It IS demeaning. Killing is a personal experience. I've done a lot of killing and it doesn't bother me, but I don't get buckets of pleasure from killing. I get pleasure through the whole experience. I enjoy almost anything Craig Boddington, Tony Makris and a couple others do. If I watch one more Texas deer hunt where some hunter "pots" some poor deer from a treehouse and everybody jumps around like they hit Powerball, I'm going to puke. I enjoy shows where I learn about the area, the experience, how they handle the details of the trip and hunt. Actually, fishing shows do this better than most hunting shows. I enjoy seeing places where I will probably never have the time or money to go to. I find some shows short on creativity and if one more gobler wakes my old Springer Spaniel up with its gobble, I will probably have to start watching Oprah.

I watch them when its a choice of that or some idiot reality show. So far I have never watched Idol, loser or any of that tripe, but I probably watch 5-10 hours a year of the hunting shows.

Quite frankly, on a basis of hunting licenses sold, bowhunting is way overrepresented on TV, but I presume that it is easier to film, and there are more opportunities to hunt with a bow. I can recognize that bowhunting is a skilled sport (for the most part) even if I think its pretty boring.

I can see where someone would say that "that's what the market wants." But, I suspect Boddington's shows are much more watched than any of the whack and stack bow shows.

I agree with AAZW that the terms and conditions mean a lot to me as far as what I think of the outfitter who has these guys on for a taped hunt. Payment in kind should be noted.

Its kind of interesting when a guide starts talking about famous folks he hunted (for free to get the advertising...) and when you hear what some of these guys are like, you wonder about even buying a magazine with them in it again. I have kind of gotten the impression that more and more of the folks doing the TV thing are doing it to write off their entertainment expense as a tax write off, as opposed to the few, of whom Craig Boddington is an example, who it is their full time occupation.

In finishing, when it is done well, I enjoy it enough to not mind the ads and the ego trips involved. When it's done like most, it's crap.

What Duckear said, all of the current shows would do well to emulate "The American Sportsman" Gowdy gave it class and respectability, something that is lacking amongst most of the shows today. "Whack and Stack" pretty much sums a lot of them up.

I do watch some hunting shows, mostly African hunting. What you have to remember is they are selling self promotion first. Something special, extrordinary, or sensational is what sells. Just like TV news and talk radio. The ads are a necessary evil. However, when you get these deer hunting videos with a cast that looks like the extras from the movie Deliverance but not nearly as intelligent I loose all interest. The best African show on TV is On Safari aired on Wealth TV.

I've deer & bird hunted here in the states, still do but rarely, hunted Africa 3 times and plan to go back several more. But I have to tell you, I could easily make a case against hunting watching most of those "professional" (deer) hunters.

Televison hunting does more to harm the sport than help it. We are preaching to the choir and are in the minority and getting smaller. Hooping, hollering, fist pumping, chest bumping, etc. just confirms how base and moronic we are. Ambushing some hapless animal from a tree (blind, house, stand) as it comes in to eat out of a field, corn feeder, or some other attractant wether killed by gun, bow, or slingshot is not hunting. I'm not saying it is illegal, unethical, or immoral but lets call it what it is - HARVESTING. I wonder if all that back slapping and high fiveing goes on down at the slaughter house when they kill an exceptionally fine steer?

I'm sure I will get some grief on this but please just do a little honest self introspection. Put your self in the mind set of the average urbanite or suburbanite for that matter. Right wrong or indifferent they are in the majority and how we present ourselves and are ultimately preceived by them will determine the future of sport hunting in the future. Let's do ourselves a favor, not a disservice.

To me it is a case of some folks turning hunting into a competetive sport. I don't know about our European members, but Americans on the whole want to, or try to turn everything into a competetive sport, that includes hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
To me it is a case of some folks turning hunting into a competetive sport. I don't know about our European members, but Americans on the whole want to, or try to turn everything into a competetive sport, that includes hunting.

I believe there is a competitive deer hunting show on the Outdoor Channel where the guys go out and kill deer to earn points.

I guess I don't know if they are actually killing anything as I always turn the channel when I see the show. But I am under the impression they are actually killing deer for points. Sickening!

But I find the shows benign compared to the commercials.

Like the broadhead advertisement where Chuck Adams exclaims, "It's throwing a hatchet through the deer".

Or the one where the wild-eyed hunter clenches his jaw and screams into the camera, "BOOO-YESSS!!!" like a crazed maniac.

I do like and watch the shows with Craig Boddington on them.

I have never actually met the man, but have seen him at some of the Dallas Safari Club events, and he seems to be a really genuine gentlemen and sportsman.

I enjoy the shows with him and Ivan Carter.

Most if not all of the American based shows, seem to dwell too much with arrested adolescent developement.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:
about like explaining sex to a virgin.

I am SO going to steal that line.

Soooo gay??

butch, I know you have been around the block (re - hunting) a few times and the more I hunt Africa the less I want to watch hunting shows. I think it is because of the editing required to compress the hunt into a short time frame. Having been there and done that the shows just don't and can't portray the "true" hunt.

I think the way many celebrate a good hunt is with a respectable toast to respected game and that does not make for good TV. You know like a good JWR, eh.

tx308 - The commercials you are referrig to are not sponsors of Dangerous Game and are not their commercials. These are fill in commercials that the Network sells for additional revenues and usually have nothing to do with the show itself. This happens on most all cable net works to the best of my knowledge.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by tx308:
I watch them but could do without the weinder extender pills and penis pumps they were advertising on dangerous game last week. I know its all about dollars but I spit out some good bourbon after seeing the penis pump was medicare approved.

Even as a bow hunter primarily, I realize there are a large number of shows dedicated to that area of hunting, bows. I never gave it a great deal of thought but it has to be tremendously easier to film from a blind, elevated, etc. You are stationary, elevated, concealed, and the camera isn't being bounced around and the cameraman isn't having to lug all that gear up and down the hills and through the thorn bushes like on a spot and stalk. I even film my own bow hunts but have never filmed a spot and stalk on my own. Different strokes for different folks,, I still will always try and tune in to TAA. Try and film a buddies spot and stalk sometime and go home and see what you have on the camera,,, it will give you a lot more insight to what it takes to put on these shows,,

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Duckear:
The more I watch, the less I like them.

It is pretty easy to get jaded with 24/7 trophy this and trophy that hunt.

Back when I was a kid, Curt Gowdy hosted The American Sportsman and that was about perfect.


I agree with Duckear. I looked forward every week to see Curt Gowdy and the American Sportsman. That was a great show. I get the Outdoor channel, Sportsman channel and Versus, among others and don't watch any of them much any more.

I got an email from Hornady asking for Shot Show attendees to stop by their booth (#13145) to meet the Team Hornady so called celebrities. Many people I know won't shoot any more due to the costs of ammo and supplies. That is due in part to hunting shows. I can do with out most of them.

If someone can put together a show with some known stars, a show obviously they wouldn't be embarrassed to be connected with, you might get better producing and more interest.

I understand that several well known personalities also hunt. Get em on TV. I think Tom Selleck hunts, there must be others. The NASCAR drivers hunt. Several star athletes hunt. People will want to watch this and most of these stars would probably accept a freebee hunt if it were well produced. Get some Democrats who hunt on TV. Sarah Palin is fine, but what about the Dems?

quote:

Originally posted by Wink:
If someone can put together a show with some known stars, a show obviously they wouldn't be embarrassed to be connected with, you might get better producing and more interest.

I understand that several well known personalities also hunt. Get em on TV. I think Tom Selleck hunts, there must be others. The NASCAR drivers hunt. Several star athletes hunt. People will want to watch this and most of these stars would probably accept a freebee hunt if it were well produced. Get some Democrats who hunt on TV. Sarah Palin is fine, but what about the Dems?

Wink I agree...the problem is that when celebs attempt to promote the sport they tend to find themselves battling in the public and generally fighting for their jobs because they get labeled as blood-thirsty or some other degrading label. Very few are willing to put their livelyhood on the line. Sad, but true.

Several years ago I remember seeing one of the Afican hunting shows and Brad Johnson (actor) was hunting Buff (I think in Zim) and he was sharing a camp with Tom Selleck. One of the clips was around the fire at night as they were discussing the next days plan. In the clip they tried to get a shot of Selleck (It looked like he was wiping down his rifle) he was less than glad they were filming him.

quote:

Originally posted by Nicholosi:
NRA card carrying, meat eating redneck so I think I'm solidly in the target market for most of the hunting programs. For the most part, I don't care for them.

I've killed some animals that to me were trophys and never acted the way these fellows do. Well shut my mouth, slap yo momma, yeehaw...give me a break I'm embarrassed for them most of the time. I'm not sure if they are putting on for the camera because they think that's what people want or it's really a conspiracy to make us look stupid.

Humiliating is a good description.

Well put. I watch a few shows, but most of them turn my stomach. So, the channel get changed and I remember it and never watch it again. I think some of the shows are good for hunting, but I think most would be a"turn off" to the non-hunter. To me, many of the shows are comparable to the federal illegal baiting of waterfowl. However,

I never watch hunting shows, don't watch much tv of any kind.

quote:

Originally posted by Scriptus:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:
about like explaining sex to a virgin.

I am SO going to steal that line.

Soooo gay??

Nah, just a well dressed metrosexual.

I'm not wild about the celebrations on the shows. If that's what it takes to get the younger generations into the field, we can teach them proper behavior then.

If we can get more celerities to go on these shows, and have them show better etiquette in the field even better.

Better yet, if someone could make a great hunting movie with top list stars, think of what it could do for the sport. Look what "A River Runs Through It" did for fly-fishing.

Oh my! Curt Goudy and the American Sportsman. Nothing today compares to it in my mind. Sure hated it when I was traveling on a Sunday afternoon and had to miss it.

I even bought the books that went with it, I think they were quarterly.

Interesting topic. I agree with AnotherAZwriter. I have only been to Africa twice. Scrimped and saved and there were 4 years between safaris. On my second safari I paid to my our hunt filmed. For I believe, $50 less a day (off the filming cost) I agreed to let my hunt be included in a video or be shown on tv. My main bitch with the African hunted shows, is that it is mainly the same guys, Hornady, Trijicon ect. They rarely show the 'average' Joe hunting in Africa. Almost all of my friends have stated at one time or another, "How can you afford to go to Africa? Only the owners and Presidents of the shooting community can afford to go". Granted it is not cheap, but I have spent more on a 1x1 guided Elk hunt out West than I did on my first PG hunt in RSA. Obviously the travel costs are more, but the message I feel African tv shows are relaying to the viewing public is that it is only for the rich.

As for the Bubbas whopping it up after a kill, most are wayyyyyyy over the top. I will confess that on my second trip to Africa, which my son traveled with me, I let out a loud 'YES' when we found my Leopard dead on the ground. This hunt was shown on tv on Hornadys Africa and if I offended anyone I apologize. My Leopard was a lifelong dream, and seeing him dead on the ground, and knowing no one was going to get mauled, it was a yell of relief and joy. I also gave my son a huge hug when we recovered his Kudu on this hunt as well.

Jeff

quote:

Nah, just a well dressed metrosexual. Wink

I hope you aint implying i'm a well-dressed metrosexual mister, thems fightin words... i been in the same costco jeans for a month... just stand 'em next to the bed at night and hop back in 'em in the morning... wear a vest to cover the holes in my shirts... I gots better things to spend my money on fabric to cover my hide... ;-)

I never watch the hunting shows on TV when they are aired. I record what I think I want to see and play them later, that way I can delete the show if they are hunting something I'm not interested in and also fast forward through all the advertising if I do watch it.
The "bubba shots" I think are offensive to the sport. The closest I have came to doing something like that was when I shot the largest White Tail taken off of our place and I called my brother on the radio and told him he might want to come over and bring the camera.

It would seem that while there is a strong audience for hunting shows, very few producers are catering their programs to the demographic represented on AR - admittedly a tough constituency. And perhaps the 'Bubba' contingent is large enough to drive production values, with hunters with a taste (and the wallet) for Africa representing a small and less-profitable margin of viewers.

But for many of us, hunting programs - particularly those with an African focus - feed our addiction until we can find the wherewithal to make it back on safari. As others have pointed out there are certainly improvements that could be made. From my point of view I would offer the following suggestions:

1) Keep the advertising above board. I think most of us who have given this any thought understand that, given the small universe of viewers, it’s necessary to solicit advertisers and sponsors in order to defray costs and enhance quality. That’s fine with me – but don’t soft-pedal what it is that’s being advertised. We feel insulted when it appears that a product or company is being ‘subliminally placed’ in a production, as though somehow we won’t notice. We do every time. If you’re upfront with who is helping foot the bill, then we’re in a position to distinguish between advice and salesmanship, and that’s fine. Difficult to do, but ‘Tracks Across Africa’ does a good job of this, I think.

2) Respect your audience. Sure we want the show to be entertaining, but we also want it to be educational. Don’t leave us wondering about the rifle being used or the caliber employed (or the round or the scope); even if you have to convey such information with a text crawler, hey, we want to know the details! Every hunt should be prefaced with these facts. Also, my favorite shows are those that, upon their conclusion I realize that I learned something I didn’t know before, whether it’s about the game, the region, the people, or the equipment. As my mother used to say, “everyday is a school day”.

3) Keep staged emotions in check. As many others have noted: hooting, hollering, frenetic high-fiving and fist-bumping, and other histrionics often appear inauthentic – and more importantly are disrespectful, unprofessional, and unseemly. Hunting programs should display exemplars of behavior as part of their instructive intent.

4) Fair Chase or forget it. To me, wild Africa is incompatible with high-fenced, small-acreage hunting areas or captive animals. Obviously, the audience needs to know if there is any question about the fidelity to the concept of 'Fair Chase' on a hunting program.

5) Minimize the staged hunt scenes. Even on ‘Tracks Across Africa’ you will occasionally note the cameraman crouched behind the downed game filming the PH, with hunter in tow, carefully approaching – only to see the PH poke the animal in the eye to ensure it’s kaput. Did the cameraman check the corneal reflex before parking himself next to it? I can appreciate the need for some recreation, but in the case of hunting videos most of us are looking for a documentary approach foremost.

6) Don’t be afraid of failure. We all look forward to the successful conclusion of the hunt, including that perfectly placed one-round kill shot. But too often it’s apparent that there was more to the hunt than that. Recently I saw a hunt on TV where the client took the shot, the camera panned to the downed animal, and then the PH and client hugged and made their approach – only, as the client was walking towards his animal he was loading no less than four new rounds into his bolt-action. Huh? What happened that we didn’t see? We can learn as much from the less-than-successful hunts/shots as we can the perfect ones.

By the way, for those of you who watch these programs but go out of your way to belittle, dismiss, or insult the advertisers, keep in mind that they read forums like this, too. If sponsors believe that advertising on programs like TAA represents a poor ROI, then we risk losing worthwhile programming.

I for one am very appreciative of folks like Dave Fulson and Craig Boddington for taking the financial risk to bring us quality safari hunts on TV. Of course there are those that will criticize even the best of what's broadcast, reminding me of Woody Allen's observation, "dirty movies are terrible; and they're so poorly lit." The fact is most of us are watching these shows, hoping for not only better depictions of hunts, but also programs that educate and avoid, to the degree possible, aiding and abetting those opposed to our sport.

Flip Pallot (sp?) is supposed to be working on a gentleman' outdoor show. He flat out states no high fives, hooting or shooting from a box over a pile of corn. he is looking for sponsors I believe.

_BAxter

quote:

Most if not all of the American based shows, seem to dwell too much with arrested adolescent developement.

My sentiments exactly, which explains their actions.

Can you say DVR? Skip the crap and see what I want to see. Don't like the new shows, take them off the record list.

If I see another archery treestand whitetail hunt or sit by a waterhole in Africa. I think I'll throw up.

I am a fanatic traditional archer, but if I ever go to Afric, it will be with a rifle, and I will actively hunt and stalk. Not parked for days on end in a blind by a waterhole, salt lick, or bait station. Not my cup of tea.

If someone suggest to bring a book or video game to pass the time... not for me.