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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting How old is my lion?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Hi As most of you know lions hunted in Tanzania and Zimbabwe must be of a minimum age when shoot. If not the outfitter will be sanctioned with loss of quota etc. In Zimbabwe the minimum age is 5 years. I have just got the official age of my lion that I took with CMS in October. http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/9581082512 I understand the age is based on photos of the lion, X-rays of the scull and one of the teeth. Under are pictures of the lion. Let me hear what you guys think the age is. I will post the answer in a few days.     Good Hunting Carl Frederik | ||
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Hi Carl, At a rough guess I would have called that around 6. Not much facial scaring. Awesome Lion though. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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5? | |||
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'Based on those pics'...the majority of the criteria point to a 4 year old with the outside chance of a 5. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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I am no way a good judge of lion age, but it seems most are going on the lower end, so I am going to be contrary and say 7. DSC SCI Life NRA Life WSF Life <1 Club | |||
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The valley is known for its lions with less mane than usual. He's not 13  like CECIL.As Andrew points out not much facial scaring but the teeth show some wear. SO . . . I would have given him a green light at roughly 5/6 yrs. In my overall opinion, a very nice valley lion.  Dave Davenport Outfitters license HC22/2012EC Pro Hunters license PH74/2012EC www.leopardsvalley.co.za dave@leopardsvalley.co.za +27 42 24 61388 HUNT AFRICA WHILE YOU STILL CAN Follow us on FACEBOOK https://www.facebook.com/#!/leopardsvalley.safaris | |||
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Haven't a clue, but a beautiful trophy. CONGRATULATIONS! BH63 Hunting buff is better than sex! | |||
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I said 5 based on the mane distribution, nose color and wear of his teeth. I would not be surprised to hear I am off by a year, but that is a good looking lion. | |||
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Note nose colour is regional and not an age indicator. I am led to believe. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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based on the wear of the teeth and the fact that he obviously hasn't been flossing i'm guessing 6 | |||
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I would hazard a guess at no more than 5. I have watched quite a number of lions, with several PHs, and no one seems to agree on the age of these lions. | |||
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WTF? Can't y'all see his growth rings? A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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A lot has to do with regional genes, Lion densities, climate etc. If this is a valley Lion then it is a good one. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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Beautiful lion and great post. | |||
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Karl, Beautiful lion regardless of his age. Congratulations TO YOU. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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CF what was the measurement of the skull ? | |||
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Anton Not super big; 24 Good Hunting CF | |||
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Interesting brain teaser. My wife and I voted before we read any of the comments. I voted 6 and my wife voted 5. I have no professional experience and have taken only one Lion, but based solely on my reading, and looking at his face, nose and teeth, I selected 6. Andrew said the nose color is regional, so there goes that theory. Watch, he'll end up being 10! | |||
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Can't be 10 as it wasn't an option. ____________________________ If you died tomorrow, what would you have done today ... 2018 Zimbabwe - Tuskless w/ Nengasha Safaris 2011 Mozambique - Buffalo w/ Mashambanzou Safaris | |||
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I have no idea who is doing the "official" aging in Zim. That said...I have had the chance to x-ray the 2nd upper premolar on quite a few zim lions and examine their skull in the process (I offer this free to anyone who wants it done). Rarely do my pulp-cavity widths (measured in the 2nd upper pre-molar - small first upper cheek tooth) match what was reported. So their is no telling what the Zim guys actually called it. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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A 24"+ skull is fairly normal, I would say 24.5" is the average I've seen. Largest I've killed personally was 26 3/4", also from Zim. As for the age guess, I am going to say 5. As Lane points out, a lot if it is based on who/how is doing the aging? From what I've been told via scientists that I trust, the +/- margin of error can run 10 months or so. Regardless, he does look to be a "mature" lion - very nice and congrats!!! | |||
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Beautiful cat, no matter. I guessed 5, but did note that his spine is showing a good bit. Good Hunting, Tim Herald Worldwide Trophy Adventures tim@trophyadventures.com | |||
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CMS has a problem then? Once took a Lion when Thor Kirchner was my apprentice and he thought the Lion was not of age. We looked it over for three days and I called it in. Just so happened to be one of the oldest taken that year. No facial scars, pinkish nose and the mane was not very good for the Kafue. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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Andrew - That's why its science, but not an exact science!! I've seen lions all over the board, and different areas dictate different characteristics, etc. But your example is a good one. Normally the old/mature Kafue lions carry very good manes, so he was obviously not the norm - which is more likely the norm. I've seen plenty of male lions in the Kafue with you and Richard, not one of them looked like the other!! | |||
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Great cat in my book How about counting rings on his foreskin? Anyone ever tried? " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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I only do that while they're alive to verify age before shooting. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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I voted before I read the comments from the experts. I said 5. I look forward to hearing the results. | |||
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Carl, Please let me say congrats on your lion. I just want you to know my comments are genuine on the science side but my comments are also genuine from hunter to hunter when I say...well done! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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I'll say 6... | |||
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Old enough! ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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Curious, what did your PH judge him at before you took him? Congrats & well done! Best regards, D. Nelson | |||
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My PH was Rich Tabor. We had quite a lot of trail camera pictures and video of him. And we had a good sighting of him in day time a few days before we got him. Rich was very confident that he was legal, but I could not get him to say more than that he was 5 +. Good Hunting Carl Frederik | |||
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Good assessment. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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The Joke behind this is when we openly admit that factors on "who and how" ages a lion can affect "determined" age and they have the benefit of when it is dead having HD pics from all angles taken , teeth x-rayed , claws inspected, nose photographed, facial scarring inspected etc etc and we still have arguments on the age-so what about the PH that most times sees this cat at last light and has to "age it" Personally the way i look at the "aging" is it is either a mature or old cat which is a taker or its a young cat that is not a taker. I do not believe that there is a cat hunter out there that can age to the year in the field- sorry I hope I have not started a war amongst the "lion gurus" . I have to say though the spin off on the aging has meant that we are shooting less lions and the quality has improved so I am all for it but to think your PH is going to nail the age every time is not going to be the case. Recently I did a test that is getting passed amongst the PHs on aging lions- I scored 75% which I think is quite good but it means that if I shoot 4 lions one will not be the age that called it. I do not have the experience of a number of other lion hunters as I have probably averaged a lion for every year that I have hunted so that is 20 plus years but sure I am in a better position then many qualified younger PHs!! | |||
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With you on this Buzz , based on photos I put it closer to 4 than 5 , but in the field under field conditions , who knows. | |||
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Very true Buzz. This photo shows what seems to be an older Lion in poor light and often a PH has to make a quick decision in the gathering gloom. In fact this cat turned out to be much younger than he looked and guessed about 3 or 4.  When there is a lot of money on the table the pressures to please a client can be immense and can lead to irrational decisions. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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That is a beautiful valley cat and you should be proud! As of age, I will guess around 5 | |||
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Buzz, I think your assessments are pretty accurate! Aging a lion on the "paw" is pretty tough, but as you say, I don't think its that tough to assess what most would call a "mature" lion, from an "immature" lion. Past that, its gut feeling and educated guessing. Speaking of tests, the guys at Panthera sent me one a couple years ago to test my skills at aging / identifying leopards - that was hard! | |||
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Well I know pee all about lions other than what I have read and that I would like to kill one. I guessed 7. Probably out to lunch, but looking at his head, backline and teeth, that is my uneducated guess. LOL ______________________________________________ The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who are bereft of that gift. | |||
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It would be much easier to let them die of old age then shoot them and all this fuss would be done away with.  | |||
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