The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Why is that people think African plains game are different...Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Why is that people think African plains game are different... | Login/Join |
One of Us |
...okay there may be a little environmental difference in that there are more predators in Africa and they may be a little more tenancious to life...but deer sized game is deer sized game and elk sized game is elk sized game. I have been on three safaris (a total of about 30+ days) and I firmly believe that... Anything that is adequate for deer in NA is adequate for smaller plains game. Anything somewhat marginal on elk is going to be somewhat marginal on larger plains game Anything adequate for elk is adequate for larger plains game. I also don't buy "well you don't want to do a lot of tracking in Africa because...(pick your reason) or You have to anchor animals quickly in Africa...(pick your reason) Can anybody tell me when they don't want to anchor animal with a single shot everytime? Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | ||
|
| One of Us |
I think some of it comes from the issue that visiting hunters may be pressured to try less than ideal shots due to time/expense and feel that more horsepower will help them (which it may...or definately may not!). I think too many people think they need a .375 to kill plains game. Nothing wrong with that choice, by any means, but its not an absolute necessity. Common 7mm's and .30's work well. (a big exception being hunting PG in DG areas, having a 9,3 and up is a protection issue too) Of course if one can shoot them and enjoys using a .340WBY, nothing wrong with that at all, but as you say, many think they must have this type of power level to kill PG. I am not sure I buy the tracking argument as gospel. I realise herd animals dust may cover blood, but with exit wounds from a lowly .308 or .30-06 I have always been able to follow blood (not always as easy with no exit, hence I do believe exit is favourable). To counter that, what little hunting I have done in the north (Canada) it would seem that following blood in Spruce forest in the fall after a light snow has melted and made the duff soggy would not be all that easy if the blood was sparse). Anchoring quickly? In theory would save time, but how much? I think occasionaly we all have to spend some minutes looking for an animal that went a bit into thick stuff, regardless of calibre, so if we reduce that fractinally, how much time we really save? Obviously if you have one rifle and are taking from duiker to eland on one hunt, then you need to carry a rifle capable of cleanly taking your biggest quarry under a range of realistic conditions. | |||
|
| one of us |
Mike, I couldn't agree with you more. I'm not an expert but I have shot some of the smallest to the largest of African game as well as Northern American game. I think if you duplicate the factors involved in shooting similiar sized animals in Africa or North America the end results will be nearly the same. Actually I think there is very little real predictability in how any animal may react to a solid hit unless the CNS is compromised. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
|
| one of us |
Mike, It is my belief that African Plains game are not that more difficult to kill with a hit in the right place. Thaan North American game. However I do feel that they are much tougher if they are wounded. American game tends to lay down and or even hide when wounded. African game seems to become even stronger after being wounded. They seem to know if they lay down something will get them, thus they stay on their feet and keep moving. My wife killed several plains game with a 308, she had good hits and no problems. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
|
one of us |
I believe that part of the misconception is due to the fact that trackers are used in Africa so game is actually tracked. It is therefore evident that wounded game can go a long ways prior to laying down. Here in the states tracking is a lost art and can be very difficult unless a good blood trail is there to follow. Therefore people assume they miss or that the shot was not fatal and give up tracking wounded animals. I have seen deer walking around with their guts hanging out of their side and dragging on the ground...talk about tuff! I also shot an elk once that had a 300 grain ML bullet in the shoulder....the bull had a funny rack on one side but was still alive and doing well. I also killed a deer that had a 3 blade muzzy stuck in the spine. I never knew it was there until I cut out the back strap. ****************************************************************** R. Lee Ermey: "The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." ****************************************************************** We're going to be "gifted" with a health care plan we are forced to purchase and fined if we don't, Which purportedly covers at least ten million more people, without adding a single new doctor, but provides for 16,000 new IRS agents, written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that didn't read it but exempted themselves from it, and signed by a President, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, for which we'll be taxed for four years before any benefits take effect, by a government which has already bankrupted Social Security and Medicare, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's broke!!!!! 'What the hell could possibly go wrong?' | |||
|
One of Us |
IMO, African critters ARE tougher to kill than similiar sized NA game. Steve "He wins the most, who honour saves. Success is not the test." Ryan "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Stalin Tanzania 06 Argentina08 Argentina Australia06 Argentina 07 Namibia Arnhemland10 Belize2011 Moz04 Moz 09 | |||
|
One of Us |
IMHO, African animals are generally much tougher. I could give lots of examples from personal experience, from wildebeest, to zebra, to gemsbok, to reedbuck, to kongoni. Even when mortally struck, these African game animals can take an incredibly long time to die, and when only wounded, their toughness has to be seen to be believed. And I notice that the question wisely rules out comments on buff.  Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I have an interesting problem, because although I have shot a fair number of African animals, I have not shot all that many of our own. I'd say based upon my experience that any animal that is well hit, succumbs fairly quickly. I'd say that animals that are not well hit can move a long way before laying down or dying. I'd observe that when going on a mixed bag hunt in Africa, choice of caliber is driven by the necessity to pick rifles that can substitute for one another, which often results in using a larger rifle than necessary for plains game. You can use a 375 on an impala, but it is not recommended to use a 30-06 on buffalo! This is one of great strengths of the 9.3x62 we all rave about. Kudude | |||
|
| One of Us |
Mr Lex MA, I just have to disagree...the data is just way too random for me. I have seen deer with no heart (dagnosed upon autopsy) run 75 yds. I have seen zebra hit thru only one luge stumble 15 yds and collapse. I suspect we have all seen animals on both continents hit in a similar manner and have very different reactions. I think the reason for the perception is...internet myth. Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
|
one of us |
I would have to agree with Mike Dettorre here. I've heart shot deer that ran farther then any of the animals I shot in Africa. I was told how tough the wildebeest was prior to going over. Well, mine dropped where he stood, with the farthest animal going only 15-20 yards, a warthog. Needless to say, I wasn't impressed with the toughness. I would guess that equal sized animals would be equal in toughness regardless of continent origin. Graybird "Make no mistake, it's not revenge he's after ... it's the reckoning." | |||
|
One of Us |
There will NEVER be any wholesale agreement here on this subject. Weighing in myself, I have personally shot everything from antelope to bison and in between in North America. In Africa, I have shot everthing from Suni to Elephant, and 36 plains game species, (and all of the dangerous game species, except leopard), in between. I MY experience and HUMBLE opinion, African plains animals are tougher. Another vote for African plains animals being tougher. | |||
|
one of us |
Well, I will have to agree with Mike on this one  From my experience, when you take out the pump, or disrupt the nervous system, things die. When I have made good shots, the game has gone down in quick order. When I make a poor shot, the results are ugly, no matter which continent I am on. Just my experience  Jim "Bwana Umfundi" NRA | |||
|
| One of Us |
I don't have a strong opinion on too many things but I do believe that pound for pound African plains game are no tougher than American game of similar size. Although there are differences between species. None of the african antelope will go further than a wounded elk. If you don't believe I say you haven't spent much time elk hunting. 465H&H | |||
|
one of us |
Mike, I read your post and was thinking I agreed... but then I kept thinking of more and more exceptions to that thesis (at least in my mind). You're right in that when hit correctly on the first shot it's all over pretty quickly no matter where the game evolved. But I agree with 450 #2 that the plains game animals seem to be tougher when wounded. I've seen around 35 plains game animals taken and was really impressed at how hard some of them were to put down. Using a .375 with a 300 gr. Partition I shot a warthog running away in the right hid quarter. The bullet was found in the left brisket. BUT we couldn't locate the boar until the next morning and it still had lots of "sprint" left in it. In the last 1,500 feral pigs I've seen shot I don't recall any having quite that resilience. (I also saw two warthogs hit better that were DRT). One impala ram took 3 chest hits with a .416 Rigby to keep him down. In 19 years of guiding for NA deer I don’t recall a similar display of punishment absorption. My hartebeest took 4 shots from the .340, crisscrossing through the center body to keep it down. My blue wildebeest took a 300 gr. Partition quartering on through the chest and ran 150 yards without showing any signs of being hit or losing a drop of blood. My Mtn. zebra sucked up four 180 gr. Trophy Bondeds before giving up. Whereas I guided several seasons for elk and (while tough) I don't remember any being that difficult to put down and we never even came close to losing one. My plains game sample is pretty small so maybe I’ve sampled at the wrong end of the bell curve but there does seem to be some validity to those animals wanting to live a little more than ours. Kyler ___________________________ www.boaring.com I'm so old that I still have some skills even without an internet connection or electricity. ___________________________ | |||
|
| One of Us |
Maybe it's the tendency to use bigger bores that makes African PG seem tougher. A 375H&H with an exit w probably makes a smaller wound channel than a more lightly constructed 30-06 bullet that also exits. mike | |||
|
| One of Us |
There is more to correlating the "toughness" of an animal than simply size. In North America, three of the toughest animals to put down are elk, mountain goat, and grizzly; all of which are smaller than moose which are comparitively easier to kill. I'm sure Africa is in the same boat with wildebeast, gemsbuck, etc. coming to mind. While it is possible that Africa has a somewhat higher percentage of "toughies", I think we sometimes agonize to great lengths to find the perfect caliber to do the job. In truth there is a wide variety of cartridges that will do the job on both continents and there is a great overlap between Africa and North America. The old conventional wisdom that the most important thing is proper bullet placement with a well constructed bullet certainly holds true and greatly outweighs whether you use a 30-06 or a 338 Win mag. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Kyler, Now there is some fact based reasoning... Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I´d say the that the wildebeest is about the toughest animal I´ve ever shot. Even with a good solid hit they can run +300 meters. But whitetail are hardy animals and in my experience tougher than European elk. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Gents, What are some of the shot distances encountered when hunting plains game? thanks EMC2 | |||
|
| One of Us |
My closest shot was 20 meters (a duiker using a .375 H&H) and my longest 180 meters (a gemsbok in the Kalahari, shot with a 9.3x62). Most of my game has been taken at ranges around 60 meters. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Sorry I didn't take the time to read every post so hopfully I'm not repeating too much. I think much of the perception comes from (1) the FACT that (most) African game's vitals are smaller and hence located lower than what most northern hemisphere hunters are used to. (2) adding to this is the hump many African animals have creating a false impression of anatomy. Another possibility is the therory that game that survived the rinderpest had superior genes, which are now inherent in all present game that decended from them. Citing #1 & 2 above, I think most long recoveries and lost game are the result of a bad shot rather than a tougher animal. #3 however would tend to reinforce the idea of tenacity! Who knows? An old man sleeps with his conscience, a young man sleeps with his dreams. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I wonder if "Toughness" and tenacity to life would more likely correlate with surviving near constant exposure to ambush predators (crocs, cats, hyenas in Africa)by fight or flight than with occasional exposure to chasing predators (wolves in Europe and America) by endurance for long running. There is another large species  that is common to all the continents, and I am confident in my mind which one is stronger and faster--which may not be toughness nor tenacity to life, but should be darn close.Steve "He wins the most, who honour saves. Success is not the test." Ryan "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Stalin Tanzania 06 Argentina08 Argentina Australia06 Argentina 07 Namibia Arnhemland10 Belize2011 Moz04 Moz 09 | |||
|
| one of us |
/ | |||
|
One of Us |
Mike, I agree with you. Size appropriate rounds that work in the State, should work on African plains game. When faced with a choice of only two rifles and one of those will be a double, I'd opt for a .375 just to back up the double. If you are only hunting plains game then what works here should work there! Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
|
| One of Us |
ALF, "physiologic reserve" is dependent on more variables than size alone. Arnold Schwarzeneigger and Tom Arnold may have the same mass/BMI, but their reserve is gonna be considerably different. Lean Body Mass would be closer to accurate, but hormonal make-up and adrenal responses should alter "time to death" from wounds that don't take out the CNS or blow up the pump. Steve "He wins the most, who honour saves. Success is not the test." Ryan "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Stalin Tanzania 06 Argentina08 Argentina Australia06 Argentina 07 Namibia Arnhemland10 Belize2011 Moz04 Moz 09 | |||
|
| Administrator |
Gentlemen, I just got my copy of Kevin Robertson's book: AFRICA'S MOST DANGEROUS; THE SOUTHERN BUFFALO. In it he attributes the toughness of the African game animals to the rhinderpest. His suggestion is that only the fittest managed to survive that calamity. And as that lasted eight years, the predators must have had a field day during that time. Feasting on the dead and dying animals. And when that persiod ended, what few animals - buffalo and plains game - were left had to fight for their own survival against the large predator population that must have been the result of the rhinderpest. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I read the book yesterday, and it is an interesting theory. ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
|
| one of us |
When you're an ornery SOB and want your trackers to work for their tip.  | |||
|
One of Us |
4 safaris of my own and working with hundreds of safari clients, the issue is not necessarily toughnes. Though I am inclined to agree with those that believe most African plains animals will take more punishment. I believe some of the considerations are: *Time and money make wounding and a day spent recoveing an animal a large factor. *Most safari hunts are not about meat so larger calibur and additional meat damage is less consequential *Capes and hides are sought after and miltiple holes make them less desireable, as does finging them after the first jackal on the scene! *Most african game is herd oriented and will run further with the herd and the herd also obliterates tracking sign. *To have enough gun for whatever you encounter you may have more gun that necessary for the one you do encounter! *Small bullets make small holes and are hard for a PH to see on impact to determine a good vs marginal hit. Other factors to consider are internal ballistics: A solid or tough slow expanding "large" calibur bullet will adaquately kill a small animal with little cape or meat damage while a "smaller" fast moving bullet may explode, and ruin a cape and a lot of meat or punch right thru with too little damage and or too small of a wound channel for a good bleed out and blood trail. The same bullet is far more apt to carry on thru a larger tougher animal in a straight line. Some of the down sides: *Recoil which causes more bad shots than probably everything else combined *the larger calibur bullet is more apt to pass thru multiple animals Note: Many PH's are not fond of the Barnes bullets because the pass thru so well. Multiple hits are are real issue and the bullet hitting the ground beyond the animal is misread as a high or low shot. I personnally love them, Since they open and stay together spectacurlaly they cut vs plowing their way thru causing considerable hemorage and good wound channel while doing very little cape damage! Ultimately you are better off hitting them in the eye with a .22 than the butt with a cannon so shoot what you can and have a good hunt! Mike | |||
|
One of Us |
 In the Jan 07 issue of Sports Afield there is a GREAT article by Doug Walcher on his Brown Bear hunt with Max Schwab .....They got up nice and close to a 9 1/2 ' bear in its den ,,12 feet and Max possibly 30 or 40 feet. The hunter was shooting a 7 mag. Max a 375 H&H .. They shot the bear 6 times and if the last shot , which aparantly spined the bear , had missed the CNS , the guide probably would have got bit.......This is fairley typical 375 H&H preformance on brown bear...All of the 9.3 killed Brown bears that I know about have been multi hits,,....  The reason most advertised dead Brown bear pictures show a bear in the Alders,,,,, is because that is where they run to when they get shot with the average client rifle . and the average guides 338 of 375...a BUNCH of times....I usually work and hunt alone and so I can,t rely on any one elses help,,, also the remoteness , and weather often make getting to help difficult if not immediatly impossible.....I have read enough books on African hunting to know the old timers used 6.5 ,, 7,,, 7.9 or 8 , 9 ,,.9.3 ,mm ect. and the 303 British and 06 .... And they killed every thing with them ... However I would wager that ALOT of game was wounded and wandered off .. and most of them were multi hits......Some friends of mine shot a black bear as a joint venture one time on POW ... One of them was shooting an 06 and one a 300 Whby.. it was a nice 4-500 lb bear and 9 shots later it finally expired but it had got pretty close to them befor it died and they were Very fleet of foot.. If that bear hadn,t got hung up in some blow down it might have got them......I myself do not believe a person could kill 600 brown bear from close range with a 9.3x62 with solids,,,{{ by them selves }}and live to tell about it .. I don,t care if it was Karomojo Bell with all of his luck and skill.... Bears aint cows....... and what about lion .... Is the 9.3 x 62 the preferd lion gun ??????? Sorry for stiring the pot,,  ,,But I have noticed that when people have to rely on them selves they always go UP in caliber .  .. Mr Robertson him self says so...!!!.If it can,t be grown , its gotta be mined .... | |||
|
Moderator |
I am going to agree with Mike. I have only shot 14 African plains game animals but IMHO they are no tougher than North American animals. In fact, the only tracking jobs I have had have been with NA game. All of the African game I have shot have died VERY quickly. Based on my relatively limited experience I would say that on average they react pretty much identical to comparable shots. I agree, however, that in Africa it is more critical to get quick kills. Its tougher tracking on average (at least compared to where I hunt in NA), tracking/recovery time takes away from limited and valuable hunting time and the consequences of not recovering an animal are a little more dire to your pocket book. Cheers, Canuck | |||
|
| one of us |
/ | |||
|
| One of Us |
Alf, I would be interested to see such studies, but professional experience in medicine tells me that the variables I mentioned (plus others such as mean arterial muscle wall thickness)have probably not been studied in many, if any, large game species. Certainly size is an important factor, and I assume the average topi and hartebeest and wildebeest are a bit heavier than the average whitetail, mulie, and pronghorn. What is interesting is that while some of us think there is not much difference in tenacity of life between NA and Afican critters, others of us are convinced that the African critters are clearly more tenacious. No one has offered an opinion that the NA game is "tougher"--at least that I can determine from the above posts thus far. Steve "He wins the most, who honour saves. Success is not the test." Ryan "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Stalin Tanzania 06 Argentina08 Argentina Australia06 Argentina 07 Namibia Arnhemland10 Belize2011 Moz04 Moz 09 | |||
|
| one of us |
Interesting thread. While I don't have the vast experience some posters here do, I have killed 17 big game animals in North America, Europe and Africa up to kudu and elk. No dangerous game. If I did my part with regard to caliber, bullet selection and shot placement they all went down in the same manner in the same amount of time. I have far more field experience with wingshooting and have to say that all birds die the same way whether in North America, South America, Europe or Africa, too. Comparing species to species is a different discussion altogther. Frankly, unless proven otherwise, I think the belief that African plains game are tougher on the whole than comparably-sized North American game is just more African legend, as romantic as it is. ___________________________________________________________________________________________ | |||
|
One of Us |
My first safari was with a .30-06 and while it worked pretty well when I did my part, I did think something slightly larger is an advantage. One thing I did wrong was to shoot too much behind the shoulder instead of into the shoulder. Why worry about meat when I'm not harvesting the carcase. Heart shots work the same everywhere. If you take out the heart, the beast may run, but will drop within a hundred metres. Except one zebra i shot believe it or not. The .30 punched a neat hole in it, and the animal ran, lay down, and got up again when we found it after following the tracks. The PH told me the heart had been hit afterwards, it wasn't my observation. I would agree that the game there if not fatally wounded seems to have more umphf to escape. Know nothing about North American game though. | |||
|
| One of Us |
If someone will assist with the cost, I will volunteer to do extensive research for about a year, write a report with pictures and graphs, and then submit for approval!!! Any takers??? | |||
|
| one of us |
I don't think African game is any tougher. Some hunters use too-heavy rifles. They flinch. They're lousy shots. They wound. Some African animals have the vitals much lower in the chest, like wildebeeste and gemsbok. A shot that would kill an elk only wounds them. Hunters forget to shoot low. Indy Life is short. Hunt hard. | |||
|
| One of Us |
A 6'5" 250lb buttoned-down Wall Street type is certainly not the same as a 6'5" 250lb NFL linebacker. I doubt a 100lb whitetail living in the semi developed suburbs of Virginia is the same as an impala living in the African bush. There are just so many, many variables to this question. It's about environment, physiology, status on the food chain, experience, disease, tenacity of life---AND gun writers' hyperbole. Sounds like an interesting subject for a biology or wildlife management dissertation, or a post-DVM veternarian study. One thing is certain, as many of you have said, shut down the CNS and it's on its way to the salt. 114-R10David | |||
|
| one of us |
The major difference is when you hit one and it bleeds, you pay. In NA, that's not the case for the most part. So regardless of the theory, it pays to kill them dead. Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear | |||
|
| One of Us |
An interesting theory. A possible counter-theory would be that exposure to weather extremes would have a similar effect on prey animals in North America and elsewhere. Particularly until the mid 19th century when Man started thinning the predators heavily, a heavy snow or ice storm would tilt the hunting balance in favor of predators, and can cause substantial die-offs of both grazers and browsers. Haven't puzzled out yet what the effect of large scale forest fires might be, but I suspect it tends to cause starvation in herbivores and thus a short-term overpopulation of predators. | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Why is that people think African plains game are different...
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia
..