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I have withdrawn this as there is now enough info to give a basic illustration of the point. I will possibly call on such help in the near future again, but will do a more properly planned and structured version when time allows. Thanks to all who participated and to those with constructive criticism too!  http://www.bigbore.org/ http://www.chasa.co.za Addicted to Recoil ! I hunt because I am human. Hunting is the expression of my humanity... | ||
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Stephen, I will not respond to this because it is badly constructed with the false major assumption in one of the questions that South African gun laws/airport administrative requirements are so onerous as to drive me elsewhere. I actually do hunt in South Africa, plan to continue and do not find the requirements unduly burdensome. BTW: Have you tried to get a firearm into the United States? In fact, I prefer to hunt in Namibia, but that is because friends are there, it's cheaper and has wide open spaces. Yes, it's easier to get a temporary firearms import permit at the airport in Windhoek, but that does not drive my preference... Regards, Tim | |||
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Thanks for the opportunity to respond to this poll. I have traveled to Tanzania, Zimbabwe, Namibia, Zambia, and Botswana on hunting safaris. S.A. is by FAR the most frustrating to enter with a firearm. Unlike the previous poster, I have really begun trying to avoid Jnb completely when at all possible. Nearly everyone in the terminal tries to extort money from you. The employees are normally rude and NEVER friendly. I do like SA and really enjoy the limpopo and kruger areas. The people are very friendly(away from jnb) and a delight to be around. | |||
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The various firearms restrictions in SA are a real pain to me. I do all that is possible to avoid even an over night stay in Joberg in route to other African nations. I simply dread hunting in SA. The restrictions are bearable if you hire someone such as Afton House to help through the air port formalities but why pay an extra $250 + just to overnight in Joberg? 465H&H | |||
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Your poll is faulty; Questions 2 and 3 are either/or so you can only answer one of them. The software here gives you an error unless you answer every question in the poll. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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I have flown through Jo-Burg 5 times with firearms (3 times within 1 month going back and forth between countries) and never really had a problem. I personally felt like flying through places like Windhoek and Vic falls, where they have small airports and very little staff on hand were more difficult than going to Jo-burg. Sure there are a lot of regulations, but if you plan ahead you shouldn't have a problem. I have to stay on top of regulations for my job, but the frequent changes have not really effected me or any of our clients. Use a good firearms clearing agent and you will have no problem. It's worth the extra cash! We recommend Air2000 to hunters who book with us. Anne has always helped our clients and we have yet to have a problem where we couldn't get the guns cleared. Greg Brownlee Neal and Brownlee, LLC Quality Worldwide Big Game Hunts Since 1975 918/299-3580 greg@NealAndBrownlee.com www.NealAndBrownlee.com Instagram: @NealAndBrownleeLLC Hunt reports: Botswana 2010 Alaska 2011 Bezoar Ibex, Turkey 2012 Mid Asian Ibex, Kyrgyzstan 2014 | |||
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The second question should allow for multiple answers. I have done all 3 in the past. The third question is tough. If I have not visited, what would I know about red tape. Red tape compared to Namibia, Zim, the US? The danger of civilization, of course, is that you will piss away your life on nonsense | |||
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I have flown to SA (JNB) nine times, all safari trips. I haqve had one extremely bad experience there, but until I bagan using a service, all were unpleasant. SA authorities need to understand that Americans and Europeans are not used to corruption and the level of incompetence extant at JNB. | |||
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This is a timely topic for me as I am preparing to head to Zimbabwe in late June for my 12th safari. I have hunted South Africa once before in 2000, before the current firearm import regs were adopted. My upcoming travel schedule entails an overnight in Jo'Burg - something I prefer to avoid. As a result, I'll be staying at a local guest house (Not Afton) and using their service to arrange the SAPS permit. The application process is assinine and intrusive, even when using a service. (Why must I provide my wife's passport number, if she is not traveling with me?)I can't imagine having to wait in line at Tambo to go through the process. Additionally, for the privilege of spending the night in Jo'Burg, I'll pay a total of R1750 for a room for two and airport transfer, plus $100 for the permit service and another $100 or so to courier permit documents to the service. Throw in dinner and I'm looking at around $500 and considerable hassle to transit Jo'Burg with guns. I'm doing it because I want to make it to my destination and this is the cost to play. But, I can say for sure that I will never hunt in South Africa again. | |||
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You state that you want the truth from the horses mouth and that you don't want to fuzz the facts, but as an earlier respondent alluded to, your second to last question Stephen is too presumptive. That makes it an unfair poll or research device. If you really want to add some muscle to this, you should allow the respondent to state the extent of problems encountered at the airport, as in if he/she has encountered any trouble. The way you have it worded, the presumption of trouble is already there. Therefore this could actually be used against you, if you are attempting to use the results of this poll in governmental matters. If someone presented such a poll with results to me attempting to use it against me, I would argue the entire poll is invalid based on the one question. | |||
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That poll will lead to very ambiguous answers and/or force people to answers that don't capture the truth. Question 3 for exmaple could capture a multitude of reasons under the assumption that its only gun law related. Go to surveymonkey.com spend the time to craft a clear, rigorous amd thorough survey then post the link. If CHASA needs a survey contractor I can do it. I enage in research methods for my PhD anyway! | |||
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Very poorly constructed questions. I have travelled into and via RSA on more than a dozen safaris, under the old laws and the new laws. The new laws are unnecessarily cumbersome and restrictive and the procedure is rife with corruption opportunity. RSA is going to kill the golden calf which is safari hunting. I would even avoid RSA as a transit stop to other countries if at all possible. Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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It's always a circle jerk in SAPS. A "permit service" takes a lot of this BS away but it shouldn't be there to begin with. A pre-arranged temporary gun permit should be a 5 minute process, not 1.5 hrs WITH the assistance from a "meet and greet" service (which I deem essential if you want to get your ass outta Dodge within 24 hours). Way too much Tom Foolery goes on and it really makes hunters/visitors want to go else where. I get to hear all about it and I've been there, done that many times. Glad your in a position to report on this Stephen, good luck with it. Thanks, David Gray Ghost Hunting Safaris http://grayghostsafaris.com Phone: 615-860-4333 Email: hunts@grayghostsafaris.com NRA Benefactor DSC Professional Member SCI Member RMEF Life Member NWTF Guardian Life Sponsor NAHC Life Member Rowland Ward - SCI Scorer Took the wife the Eastern Cape for her first hunt: http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6881000262 Hunting in the Stormberg, Winterberg and Hankey Mountains of the Eastern Cape 2018 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4801073142 Hunting the Eastern Cape, RSA May 22nd - June 15th 2007 http://forums.accuratereloadin...=810104007#810104007 16 Days in Zimbabwe: Leopard, plains game, fowl and more: http://forums.accuratereloadin...=212108409#212108409 Natal: Rhino, Croc, Nyala, Bushbuck and more http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6341092311 Recent hunt in the Eastern Cape, August 2010: Pics added http://forums.accuratereloadin...261039941#9261039941 10 days in the Stormberg Mountains http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7781081322 Back in the Stormberg Mountains with friends: May-June 2017 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6001078232 "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading" - Thomas Jefferson Every morning the Zebra wakes up knowing it must outrun the fastest Lion if it wants to stay alive. Every morning the Lion wakes up knowing it must outrun the slowest Zebra or it will starve. It makes no difference if you are a Zebra or a Lion; when the Sun comes up in Africa, you must wake up running...... "If you're being chased by a Lion, you don't have to be faster than the Lion, you just have to be faster than the person next to you." | |||
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Plain and simple I avoid South Africa now at all costs due to the gun laws and the incompetent people running SAPS. I have to say the last time I was there I was meet by two of my South African friends and the SAPS thing at JNB went well. The time before I was questioned and treated like a criminal for nearly two hours because my PH did not supply me with a land line telephone number only a cell number. That really pissed me off after spending 20+ hours on an airplane my temper was growing short. It is unnecessary and it does nothing to promote South Africa as a hunting destination. I'll row across the Atlantic to get to Nambibia next time if means avoiding JNB and SAPS. | |||
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Surestrike, I'd get on your boat and help you get there. I am a canadian,and we are pretty good rowers. White North | |||
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I used a rental gun because it was too much of a problem to take my own (particular circumstances). I hated it and will take my own rifle next time and visit a country where I can do so conveniently. If I have a choice of several destinations, I will visit the one which is most convenient. In terms of travel that would point me to SA, but the numerous, numerous horror stories have convinced me to go elsewhere for my next hunt. I wish you the best in changing the status quo. If you can take the pain out of importing firearms to SA, I would probably visit every 2 years or so. analog_peninsula ----------------------- It takes character to withstand the rigors of indolence. | |||
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As stated above, I also couldn't finish the poll unless I answered all questions. However, answering yes or no was the choice, but not both. As to my visits, in 7 Safaris, in either hunting there or transiting through to other African countries, I have seen the problems with bringing firearms along and with requests for "tips" or bribe money get worse, almost to the point that you wonder if it's even worth it to try bring your own rifles on your Safari. You would think that South Africa would get the message and would welcome us with open arms; after all we infuse a tremendous amount of money into the economy. We're not the enemy. | |||
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The one experience I had transiting through SA with an overnight was such a pain in the butt that I made my next trip through Germany even though it cost more! On any future safari I will again make every effort to avoid transit through SA. Hunt there? If an overnight is such a royal pain why would I subject myself to several days of possibily the same type of crap? (Impossible to understand forms, officals that literally had their hands out for a bribe, HOURS in line, SAP officers that either had no idea what they were supposed to do or, more likely, just didn't give a damn, hords of pan-handlers, pick-pockets and scruffy types that looked like they were just waiting for an opening to run off with your luggage.) Admittedly, I am not a fan of big cities, I live in a town of 7500, but Joberg is pretty much the 10th level of Hell from my point of view. Whoever has the razor wire concession in that city must be making a fortune, depressing and yes, scary as hell... | |||
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I did not answer the poll, but I have gone to South Africa through J'oberg 3 times with my guns [one time with the wife and her guns], and I had a handgun all 3 times. Just a few weeks ago I went through J'berg with another hunter and his guns. Each and every time I stayed at least one night in SA. I had NO problems getting into, and out of SA with my guns... I did not use any Gun Service on my trips. I did not have any problems with SAPS. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting URGENT - South Africa vs Other African Destination - Gun Laws
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