I got the bug for an AR15. The foremost decision is made, and I want it chambered in 6.5 Grendel.

Now the platform.

So many choices, it's bewildering. Next step; should I have a lower built, or buy one assembled? RRA, DPMS, or what? I want to keep it simple as possible, but I definately want a quality lower, well machined, and put together properly. One thing I'm particular about is trigger, and I understand there are some good ones for the AR. Should I buy an assembled lower, and plan on replacing the trigger - to keep it simple?

Searching prices on assembled lowers shows that they are pretty reasonably priced. What's the difference in just buying one assembled or instead buying parts then putting them together or having someone do it for me?

I'm not into tacticool, but I am into precision and accuracy, so unlike the "ultimate" assembly, I want the least stuff hanging off the completed rifle, and I like green . They say one of the main merits of the AR system is the ability to swap uppers, so in theory I need only one lower.

I am familiar with gathering parts, then hiring a gunsmith to assemble carefully and correctly, since for years I've been doing that with bolt action rifles. There is a lot of satisfaction in it, but I'm unsure of the point in it with the AR, and besides I don't know what parts to buy.

Mauser = no problem, AR = mystery.

Advice requested please.

KB

Until you get thoroughly bitten by the bug I'd stick with a major manufacturer and not a custom built gun. Any of the better makers have a plain jane varmint style (20 to 24" barrel, round aluminum forearm) that should shoot lights out in 6.5 Grendel.

after you get familiar with the basic platform then the various bells and whistles begin to segregate themselves into things you like and things you know you won't ever need.

At least until stage two AR-itis sets in. No known cure but you can manage the disease with regular purchases and upgrades.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
Until you get thoroughly bitten by the bug ....

At least until stage two AR-itis sets in. No known cure but you can manage the disease with regular purchases and upgrades.

That does worry me a more than a little. I have been bug bitten for many years over various bolt actions, and really don't want another sink hole. It's funny, I've managed to own only two pistols, and thinking of selling one of them, and I have three shotguns, but shoot only one, and rarely. My nephew shoots the other two, and probably by now claims them as his own.

Hopefully the AR will be the same as pistols and shotguns for me, and I'll need only one or two. That's why I chose the Grendel first, because I figure it will cover most of the purposes I have for the rifle. I would get an AR 10 in 308, but I don't want the weight, and at this point I really think the 6.5 Grendel has all the power I need in this type rifle. Later, I would like to mess around with the 458 SOCOM, not that I need it, but just for fun.

The other good thing about this endevor is that it could be a breakthrough from old habits. I'm planning on selling off several of those lingering and redundant bolt action projects to raise the money for the AR15. Selling darn good projects is a difficult thing, but sensible.

KB

I already have several magazines. I got a good deal, and figured that I could sell then if I decided to not use them.

I hope Hornady keeps making Grendel brass. That's good stuff at a reasonable price. I may buy a bunch, just in case.

I'm sorry to read about anything negative re AA. IMO, a man ought to be able to reap the benefits of a good idea and creation. I wish him well. If his profits are in the form of royalties, then so be it. That's the way it's supposed to work, last I heard. I would pay a little extra for the assurance that when I buy something with the word "Grendel" on it, that it have some sort of uniformity of specs. Seems to me that if there are those getting around that by changing the specs a little just to avoid royalties, then they are the source of the problem, not AA.

I hate to ask just exactly what am I missing in this picture, because I'm reasonably sure I'll get the long story.

BTW, I've been meaning to ask you if it's viagra that's keeping that hard-on up, that you have for AA?

Also, I don't know what the term "premium billet receivers" means. Please explain.

KB

No long story. No story at all in fact.

What capacity magazines do you have? You know that the original owner of C Products got sued and the people that sued took over his company. We're not sure any 6.5 mags or C Products mags are being made at the moment.

Don't worry at all about the Hornady brass. They are making brass for the 264 LBC which is identical to the Grendel except for headstamp and Steve Hornady and Les are good friends. You can find Lapua brass here and there and if you cater to the forums hat post 6.5 Grendel info you can buy stuff people are selling. As a last resort you know you can used formed 7.62x39 brass.

Hey who knows if you sweet talk me I might sell you my 6.5 CSS upper with match heavy LW barrel. Sure shoots really good. Just lost interest in it.

I bought the five round magazines, just because.

They are the stainless with teflon, and the blue followers. Can't remember the brand - Stoner maybe????

I just hate the thought of stuff hanging down and around my firearms, so until I can get used to it, I figured the short five-round magazines would be the least obnoxious. Heck, if I can't kill a deer or hog with five shots, I might as well stay home.

I did try some necked down 7.62x39 brass in my bolt action 6.5 Grendel, and it seems to work well, far better than I figured it would. At the local range, I can pick up hundreds of pieces of brass in 7.62x39 each summer, not the steel stuff but real brass with boxer primers.

I may be interested in your upper, but it sorta depends on just how much sweet talking I have to do.

I really hope this infatuation with the 6.5 Grendel doesn't wear off. At this time I think rather highly of the cartridge.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
I bought the five round magazines, just because.

They are the stainless with teflon, and the blue followers. Can't remember the brand - Stoner maybe????

I just hate the thought of stuff hanging down and around my firearms, so until I can get used to it, I figured the short five-round magazines would be the least obnoxious. Heck, if I can't kill a deer or hog with five shots, I might as well stay home.

I did try some necked down 7.62x39 brass in my bolt action 6.5 Grendel, and it seems to work well, far better than I figured it would. At the local range, I can pick up hundreds of pieces of brass in 7.62x39 each summer, not the steel stuff but real brass with boxer primers.

I may be interested in your upper, but it sorta depends on just how much sweet talking I have to do.

I really hope this infatuation with the 6.5 Grendel doesn't wear off. At this time I think rather highly of the cartridge.

KB

Those mags you have sound just like the C Products that they make for AA. I know what you mean about the long mags. I only have, at the moment, 20 rounders for my AR 10 built and they are absolutely horrible in that I have to really prop my rifle high on the sand bags to keep the mag bottom from hitting.

Yeah the 7.62x39 brass is quite easily to size because it's skinnier at the top and necessitates fire forming. I'll tell you what though, I got really good groups in that firing forming. I was surprised. Be nice too if you can find some of that brass that has the small primer pockets. Hard to find though.

I had one done last year. I used a Satern SS barrel with thier Spartan contour.

The thing is scary accurate and only weighs 6lb 4ozs.

Terry

With a little research, I see "billet" receivers in TKS, POF, SI Defense, Sun Devil.

Some are assembled, some are striped.

Are the "billet" receivers really significantly better? What brand?

KB

No, all the lower does is hold the upper. It contributes nothing to the accuracy of the rifle. If you want an accurate rifle, concentrate on two things. The barrel and the trigger.

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
With a little research, I see "billet" receivers in TKS, POF, SI Defense, Sun Devil.

Some are assembled, some are striped.

Are the "billet" receivers really significantly better? What brand?

KB

I built my AR 10 using MEGA MA TEN billet receivers and they come as a pair to insure they are a matching set with no slop. They also have a screw in them that bears on the rear pin tenon of the upper to take out any play should they become a little loose.

I feel the billet receiver can be more rigid with less weight. I agree with what TC1 said except that if the receivers have a really sloppy fit it does degrade the accuracy.

Saturn doesn't make barrels for the 6.5 Grendel or AA anymore because, again, a falling out with AA because he got screwed like most everyone. I know Steve Satern personally.

Thanks for the info. Sorry to read about fallings out and such. With some people it can't be avoided.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
Thanks for the info. Sorry to read about fallings out and such. With some people it can't be avoided.

KB

Hey your buddy at LW is will be making up a new batch of 6.5 barrels real soon. If you want one be very explicit in detail what you want exactly especially the chamber.

My feelings about it now are that most likely LW barrels are just fine, especially prechambered and contoured and threaded. There is just too much evidence to have a contrary opinion. However, if I ordered one it would have to be as impersonal as possible. As a matter of fact, I ordered a LW barrel for a Mauser, in the pre-contoured, pre-chambered version in 7x64, (because I couldn't find one anywhere else) but I ordered it through Sporter Express and paid extra for it, just so I wouldn't have to deal with your buddy. It was worth the extra ten bucks or so, just to not hear his voice. I even waited about six months for it, worth every day.

LW is a world class company, which carries the day. Your buddy is something else. I'm not going to be explicit about anything with him, except avoidance.

I've seen the AR15 assemblies on GB, using LW barrels, and I might consider one of them. Considering how tough those LW stainless barrels are, the darn thing ought to last forever, or at least 10,000 rounds. If it's prechambered and threaded, or part of an assembly, then that sorta solves the problem, except for the bad vibes that I still have and may never get over, or at least not forget.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
My feelings about it now are that most likely LW barrels are just fine, especially prechambered and contoured and threaded. There is just too much evidence to have a contrary opinion. However, if I ordered one it would have to be as impersonal as possible. As a matter of fact, I ordered a LW barrel for a Mauser, in the pre-contoured, pre-chambered version in 7x64, (because I couldn't find one anywhere else) but I ordered it through Sporter Express and paid extra for it, just so I wouldn't have to deal with your buddy. It was worth the extra ten bucks or so, just to not hear his voice. I even waited about six months for it, worth every day.

LW is a world class company, which carries the day. Your buddy is something else. I'm not going to be explicit about anything with him, except avoidance.

I've seen the AR15 assemblies on GB, using LW barrels, and I might consider one of them. Considering how tough those LW stainless barrels are, the darn thing ought to last forever, or at least 10,000 rounds. If it's prechambered and threaded, or part of an assembly, then that sorta solves the problem, except for the bad vibes that I still have and may never get over, or at least not forget.

KB

What I meant by being explicit is to state the chamber you want, barrel length, where you want the muzzle threaded, and if not what type of crown. You can order it through the CSS website and not have to talk to you know who. Do you know or have that website? Here it is:

http://www.competitionshooting.com/

Go to contact and deal with Tom Stewart through emails. Those barrel kits they show for the 6.5 I don't believe have the gas blocks anymore. I'm pretty sure you get just the barrel and bolt. So I don't think those barrel kit prices are correct. Just email Tom and tell him for example: I want a 6.5 stainless heavy barrel that is 20 inches long, no muzzle thread and with target crown. Please make the chamber with the .295 neck and give me the new chamber that fits the Hornady ammo.

That's just an example and he'll get back with you as what the price is. No talking to our buddy that way.

Seven uppers and four lowers (so far).

I thought one AR-1 wouls be 'enough', too.

George

quote:

Originally posted by SmokinJ:

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
With a little research, I see "billet" receivers in TKS, POF, SI Defense, Sun Devil.

Some are assembled, some are striped.

Are the "billet" receivers really significantly better? What brand?

KB

I built my AR 10 using MEGA MA TEN billet receivers and they come as a pair to insure they are a matching set with no slop. They also have a screw in them that bears on the rear pin tenon of the upper to take out any play should they become a little loose.

I feel the billet receiver can be more rigid with less weight. I agree with what TC1 said except that if the receivers have a really sloppy fit it does degrade the accuracy.

Saturn doesn't make barrels for the 6.5 Grendel or AA anymore because, again, a falling out with AA because he got screwed like most everyone. I know Steve Satern personally.

It's my understanding that he will make you a .264LBC though. Which is 99.9% the same thing. I love his "spartan contour." The man makes a fine product. As far as slop goes you can get it with a billet receiver too. The best way to avoid it is with a matched set. I personally just bed the rear lug on mine. It's easy and takes care of everything.

I've heard all sorts of bad things about AA too but the cartridge is nice. With the .264LBC stuff and Grendel components from Honady and Lapua it's easy enough to use and support the cartridge and still avoid AA.

Here is one of his spartan contoured barrels. It's very light, extremely accurate and makes for an excellent "walking rifle."


Terry

TC1 so what does it weigh and what are is the avg group size.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
TC1 so what does it weigh and what are is the avg group size.

The weight without the optics or magazine is 6lbs 4ozs. As far as accuracy goes, it's more accurate than the shooter. I've shot quiet a few 1/2" 5 shoot groups at 100yds with it.

It seems to really like the 123gn Lapua silver scenars and Varget powder.

Terry

There isn't a whole lot of difference in lowers, but I like Spike's.

As far as a trigger, you can't get a better trigger than an AR X-treme. It is the fastest, most durable AR trigger out there.

I'd have Bob Whitley build the upper to your specs. He's at 6mmAR.com

And let me say I can't believe you don't have an AR!
I thought you shot a little High Power!

quote:

Originally posted by BECoole:
There isn't a whole lot of difference in lowers, but I like Spike's.

As far as a trigger, you can't get a better trigger than an AR X-treme. It is the fastest, most durable AR trigger out there.

I'd have Bob Whitley build the upper to your specs. He's at 6mmAR.com

And let me say I can't believe you don't have an AR!
I thought you shot a little High Power!

It's not so much that there is a visual difference in lowers, it's how well the specifications are held in manufacturing. That is are the trigger and hammer pin holes the correct size, take down pin locations spot on, etc.. Also how well it mates with the upper and many people are concerned the upper and lower match in color.

quote:

Originally posted by TC1:

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
TC1 so what does it weigh and what are is the avg group size.

The weight without the optics or magazine is 6lbs 4ozs. As far as accuracy goes, it's more accurate than the shooter. I've shot quiet a few 1/2" 5 shoot groups at 100yds with it.

It seems to really like the 123gn Lapua silver scenars and Varget powder.

Terry

Yeah Satern will make the 264 LBC, I was thinking the op would want the original 6.5 Grendel chamber with the dual angle chamber cone. Excellent barrels, but pricey.

quote:

Originally posted by SmokinJ:
Excellent barrels, but pricey.

Yes they are. Pay once, cry once though I have no doubt Steve would be there for me if I had any problems or compliants.

When you say a matched set - upper/lower - is this an example of what you are talking about?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Aucti....aspx?Item=271142646

No. You can get upper and lower sets that have been "matched" for fit to help elimate wobble between the to receivers. They usually draw a premium though and to me aren't worth the extra cost.

There are some easy tricks if the owner wants a tight fit. You can "bed" the rear receiver lug, install a draw pin in the back. Putting rubber O rings on the front lugs works wonders. A little play doesn't hurt a thing and is recomended for a fighting gun. Some target shooters get a little anal about it though. A former compition shooter who's opinion I trust very much say's it's worth about a 1/4" at 200yds.

Terry

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:

I would like to mess around with the 458 SOCOM, not that I need it, but just for fun.


KB

And so it begins....

This would be an example of a higher end matched billet upper and lower. These retailed for around $440 MSRP last time I checked. Can save some off of that if you hunt.

MEGA matched set

I looked at the site for the MEGA sets. Those AR type rifles are getting prettier all the time.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
I looked at the site for the MEGA sets. Those AR type rifles are getting prettier all the time.

KB

Told you those MEGA's are nice. That's what I use. Superior makes a nice set but heard of a few people that got oversized trigger and hammer pin holes. My MEGA MA TEN set come with the charging handle and the threaded pin for the bolt catch release, dust cover, and take down pins & retainers. Many receivers come blank with now of that.

Kabluey,

I haven't done a Grendel as I already have a 264 Win Mag Mauser.

But ... I have sort of survived "black rifle" disease. I have rifles built by Colt, Bushmaster, and LMT. I've built rifles with Stag, Black Rain Ordnance billet, and Aero Precision lowers.

Once you get past the "pretty" of a billet and find a provider of high precision forged uppers and lowers you'll probably stick with them as their pricing can be VERY attractive (Aero Precision) and the fits perfect.

Put your money in two places ... best barrel you can find, and a decent trigger (Rock River 2 Stage National Match or Bill Springfield trigger job) or a great trigger. This obviously assumes you use good optics.

Building your own really is the way to go unless your have an open budget. And the results can be very, very nice.

I very much prefer rifles that shoot an MOA or better. Have had no difficulty getting there with the AR platform. In 5.56 Bison makes a poly 3 20" heavy barrel that is simply superb. Shoots one hole groups at 100.

In 6.8 SPC II I have an 18" WOA bbl that shoots just over one hole groups regularly.

For 300 BLK I chose to use a Paladin Machine Services bbl and it shoots beautifully. A suppressed 300 BLK is simply amazing.

Saturn has a wonderful reputation ... hope you can find one.

AR Precision (ARP) is s vendor of excellent barrels for the 6.8. I have one of his 16" bbls and it shoots very well indeed. He is now making 264LBC barrels and bolts. His bolts are superb. I personally would look there too.

My condolences on your new disease It is a survivable plight ... but it does suck up some of the money you might use on other things

quote:

Originally posted by SmokinJ:
Right now there is a big mess with AA releasing the trademark on the 6.5 Grendel and SAAMI is pissed, but not as pissed as Hornady. So they are seriously thinking of dropping it. Yet another bridge burned by AA.

What big mess? Looks like it was resolved.

KB

http://www.gunsandammo.com/201...5-grendel-trademark/

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/...n-6-5mm-coming-soon/

http://zombiehunters.org/forum...ic.php?f=109&t=84942

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:

I would like to mess around with the 458 SOCOM, not that I need it, but just for fun.

KB

And so it begins....

and here i sit, trying to take out buffer noise bc THAT is the reason i haven't owned several..

oh, wait.. and every time i turn around one of my buddies hands me somethin COOL on an AR platform to shoot...

quote:

Originally posted by SmokinJ:

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:

quote:

Originally posted by SmokinJ:
Right now there is a big mess with AA releasing the trademark on the 6.5 Grendel and SAAMI is pissed, but not as pissed as Hornady. So they are seriously thinking of dropping it. Yet another bridge burned by AA.

What big mess? Looks like it was resolved.

KB

http://www.gunsandammo.com/201...5-grendel-trademark/

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/...n-6-5mm-coming-soon/

http://zombiehunters.org/forum...ic.php?f=109&t=84942

You never learn KB. Those are all dumb asses. Here's the page from the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office:

Sorry about gloating but you asked for it.

I just asked a simple question. How was I suppose to know they are dumb asses, until your highness informed me?

If I had known about the link, I would have just figured it hasn't been updated. How the heck am I supposed to know these things except to rely on the excellent info on the internet?

KB

I went to you tube and watched several of the videos on AR15 assembly and shooting. I can clearly see why the AR15 is so popular. I find it facinating. I don't own one now, but as surely as I continue to breath in and out, I'll have one, or more. IMO, it's the greatest invention since the '98 Mauser. I've messed with Mauser and other projects a long time, and frankly they have been somewhat frustrating, mostly because of gunsmithing issues. This AR15 thingy is clearly something I can learn to do myself.

There are several factors that make this a really good thing. First is the awesome variety of parts available. Second is that it's modular, and anyone with tools and moderate skill can assemble one. The cleaning through the breech end is of value to me. Also there are awesome triggers available, a real plus to me. Perhaps most important is that they are very accurate. Also they are light and handy, and quick.

I am amazed that it took me so long to reach this opinion. I can even see value in a fast twist 223 in this platform, and that's saying a lot, but I would own one only because they are cheap to feed. I still think that the 6.8 or the 6.5 mm is the way to go in the AR15. If more power is deemed to be necessary, then the logical choice is the AR10 in 308.

KB

They are a fun plat form. I started shooting an AR back in the 70's. Traded an PPK in 32 for my frist one.

They have real came into there own. They started too in the mid 80's and early 90's got slowed down a bit with the 94 bill.

But man now do we have a wonderful assortment of things to play with on the AR platform.

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
I am amazed that it took me so long to reach this opinion. I can even see value in a fast twist 223 in this platform, and that's saying a lot
KB

i am amazed too!

Notice that I said "fast twist 223", and that I would own one because they are cheap to feed. The fast twist is for the heavy bullets.

I wonder why the 5.45x39 is not more popular. Seems to me it's a better cartridge than the 223. I've searched for reloading dies in 5.45x39, and can't find any, but there is lots of surplus ammo plus Hornady ammo with steel cases.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
Notice that I said "fast twist 223", and that I would own one because they are cheap to feed. The fast twist is for the heavy bullets.

I wonder why the 5.45x39 is not more popular. Seems to me it's a better cartridge than the 223. I've searched for reloading dies in 5.45x39, and can't find any, but there is lots of surplus ammo plus Hornady ammo with steel cases.

KB

http://www.ch4d.com/catalog/dies/caliber-list?page=37

It's 15th from the bottom of the list.

The big attraction to that caliber is the very cheap surplus ammo. I wouldn't want it myself as it's a smaller diameter bullet then the .224. If you do why not get an AR 15 with a 204 Ruger barrel? It would also be hard to find brass for the 5.45. Like I said it's attraction is cheap surplus ammo.

I didn't know that the 5.45x39 used a bullet smaller than .224. That does make it odd for reloading. Also, those dies are not inexpensive.

For cheap shooting and expendable brass, it's hard to beat a 7.62x39.

KB

Yes 7.62x39 use to be real cheap shooting. brought and shot a lot it at 60.00 for a case of 1200.