quote:

Originally posted by Ammoloader:
I'm no expert but a Garand is not a defensive weapon. It is a do anything battle rifle designed for offensive purposes when air support could not be called in.

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I have a 7STW for real long range shooting.
I have the DPMS for closer ranges where volume might enter into the mission.
I have a couple AR-15's for closer range, where volume will come into the equation.

with a couple 870's, things are good here, or will be, out at the ranch.

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I'm no expert but a Garand is not a defensive weapon. It is a do anything battle rifle designed for offensive purposes when air support could not be called in.

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Originally posted by enfieldspares:

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I'm no expert but a Garand is not a defensive weapon. It is a do anything battle rifle designed for offensive purposes when air support could not be called in.

Sorry guys but actually, and no disrespect to the men that carried it, a design flawed by the insistence that it be 30-06 and not as orginally designed 276 and that it have a non-detachable magazine.

Now had it been 276 and thus TEN ROUNDS it might just have had useful. Or had it a detachable magazine.

Now it was in 1936 probably BETTER than any other weapon of any other potential enemy but that doesn't mean it was not a design that was flawed by insistence on it being 30 calibre and not having a drop magazine.

The M14 was everything that the M1 ought to have been from the very start.

And was there anything better at the time?

Had been...since 1908...the Mondragon

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Originally posted by p dog shooter:
NE450 N02 I use the HK a bit ran tactical courses with it scoped and unscoped.

While it was relieable and accurate when it came to the up close fast engagement of targets. My fellow shooters and my self found it lacking to heavy and slow to respone.

I agree with your post. It is very hard to beat a 223/5.56 for close in "stuff". With SP/HP/Ballistic Tip bullets they are very effective if the target is not behind too thick of cover. The guns are loighter as well as the ammo.

For most the 223/5.56 is the way to go.

I just like the 308/7.62 for its increased penetration, and more thump at longer ranges.
A combination of Federal 150gr Ballistic Tips, and Federal Barnes 150gr X bullets gives me a bullet with good expansion at longer ranges and the X bullet shoots just about through anything, with in reason of course.

And most of all I really like the 91.
I have been shooting one since 1977.

With lighter rifles in 223 we were always getting faster and more hits in shorter time periods. For fixed position longer ranges its hard to beat a good 308.

For up close fast and personal I'll take a lighter faster rifle any day.

We also found that when shooting through brush we got as many key holes with the 308 as the 223.

Like you I also carried many differant rifles on the job. In the end a 223 carbine fit the bill more often then not.

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Originally posted by low_tech:
M1A, scout rifle, many thirty round mags. You know what they say "The best defense, is a good offense"

if I am in a position to need a rifle, I want one shooting a 30 cal round. That means point blank, thru walls, into cars, cinder block(maybe not thru, every time, but you could influence someone's thought process if they were taking cover behind a cinder block wall).
It has the ballistics to do a fantastic job at stand off distances too. It has all the punch needed for a rifle's job.

I also have 223's for the wife,
I guess this makes me one of those "Preppers" or whatever that new show is called.

I work for a large utility company, and the most realistic threat I can imagine, and do something about, is some organization systematically attacking the power generation and distribution networks. Couple that with some other sort of attack(dirty nuke, bio, cyber, other?) and you might be able to gain an advantage in whatever strategic shenanigans they were undertaking.

I wonder how long it would take for the "social fabric" to start to break down, once the lights go out?

LT

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To answer your last question 4 to 10 day. That's about the amount of time a human can go without food and water before they turn violent.

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Originally posted by Antelope Sniper:
P-Dog, I didn't see "all of the above" as an answer?

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Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I think "I can arm the neighborhood" would have been an appropriate box as well, but that would be bragging, eh?

Rich

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Originally posted by Mikelravy:
I don't think making the Garand a 30 06 was a mistake. The US Army had billions of rounds of the stuff on hand and a miniscule budget. Easy to hindsight this stuff today.

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Originally posted by N E 450 No2:

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
NE450 N02 I use the HK a bit ran tactical courses with it scoped and unscoped.

While it was relieable and accurate when it came to the up close fast engagement of targets. My fellow shooters and my self found it lacking to heavy and slow to respone.

I agree with your post. It is very hard to beat a 223/5.56 for close in "stuff". With SP/HP/Ballistic Tip bullets they are very effective if the target is not behind too thick of cover. The guns are loighter as well as the ammo.

For most the 223/5.56 is the way to go.

I just like the 308/7.62 for its increased penetration, and more thump at longer ranges.
A combination of Federal 150gr Ballistic Tips, and Federal Barnes 150gr X bullets gives me a bullet with good expansion at longer ranges and the X bullet shoots just about through anything, with in reason of course.

And most of all I really like the 91.
I have been shooting one since 1977.

With lighter rifles in 223 we were always getting faster and more hits in shorter time periods. For fixed position longer ranges its hard to beat a good 308.

For up close fast and personal I'll take a lighter faster rifle any day.

We also found that when shooting through brush we got as many key holes with the 308 as the 223.

Like you I also carried many differant rifles on the job. In the end a 223 carbine fit the bill more often then not.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
NE450 N02 I use the HK a bit ran tactical courses with it scoped and unscoped.

While it was relieable and accurate when it came to the up close fast engagement of targets. My fellow shooters and my self found it lacking to heavy and slow to respone.

With lighter rifles in 223 we were always getting faster and more hits in shorter time periods. For fixed position longer ranges its hard to beat a good 308.

For up close fast and personal I'll take a lighter faster rifle any day.

We also found that when shooting through brush we got as many key holes with the 308 as the 223.

Like you I also carried many differant rifles on the job. In the end a 223 carbine fit the bill more often then not.

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Didn't see that one on the poll list. Just my perspective.

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Originally posted by N E 450 No2:

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
NE450 N02 I use the HK a bit ran tactical courses with it scoped and unscoped.

While it was relieable and accurate when it came to the up close fast engagement of targets. My fellow shooters and my self found it lacking to heavy and slow to respone.

With lighter rifles in 223 we were always getting faster and more hits in shorter time periods. For fixed position longer ranges its hard to beat a good 308.

For up close fast and personal I'll take a lighter faster rifle any day.

We also found that when shooting through brush we got as many key holes with the 308 as the 223.

Like you I also carried many differant rifles on the job. In the end a 223 carbine fit the bill more often then not.

P dog shooter,
Some how my reply to your reply did not make it into my above post.

I agree with you comments on the 223 for fast up close stuff. They are pretty good to 400 yards, even 500 yards with good ammo and a good optic, like an ACOG [good BC reticles in them], if you are using good SP or HP sporting ammo.

And as a plus you can carry lot lof ammo for the same weight vs a 308.

However, now I live in the country, and just would prefer, IF I could have ONLY ONE, the H&K 91, with the mentioned scope. I prefer the increased stand off and power of the 308, especially against cover and vehicles.

But I do agree for most people is is very hard to beat a good AR15.