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That Bill Heyneke referenced above was a practical dude using a 480 gr woodleigh to duplicate the 450 Nitro. Sensible.
 
Posts: 6980 | Registered: 31 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Absolutely !
The Woodleigh .458/ 480-grainer looks to have a slightly flatter "round nose" and slightly thicker steel at the nose.
Sectional density is still quite high at 0.327,
greater than the .375/ 300-grain standard of 0.305.
The factory cannelure is moved base-ward on that Woodleigh bullet to favor the .458 WinM,
not the no-throat .450 NE, or pitiful .458 Lott.
No powder compression in a 3.340" COL if you settle for 2150 fps instead of 2300 fps.

True .450 NE ballistics in a .458 Winchester Magnum with low pressure, short barrel, and no powder compression.
Less recoil than 500-grainer at same velocity.
What's not to like ?
patriot
.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
Nota bene: In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Well I have used the .458Win for years on ever thing from MT Reed Buck, Warthog, Kudu, Buffalo to Elephant & shot hundreds of Water Buffalo, I thought same on the 480gr but when I tested that weight one season it just didn't seem to slam them the same as 500gr slugs, now most of the Buffalo I shoot have been shot with some thing else's & I'm trying to stop them going some where bad, where retrieval & even taking photos is very difficult or deadly & the 480gr just didn't seem to stop them as fast IMO !

Most likely good for all round use but really should be using the .458Win on the biggest game, just it is the rifle/caliber I carry the most & have easiest axcess to !
 
Posts: 365 | Location: New Zealand - Australia - South Africa | Registered: 14 October 2007Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Sarg:
Well I have used the .458Win for years on ever thing from MT Reed Buck, Warthog, Kudu, Buffalo to Elephant & shot hundreds of Water Buffalo, I thought same on the 480gr but when I tested that weight one season it just didn't seem to slam them the same as 500gr slugs, ...
Very perceptive of Sarg.
500-gr @ 2150 fps: KE = 5132 ft-lbs ... Mo = 153.6 lbs*fps
480-gr @ 2150 fps: KE = 4926 ft-lbs ... Mo = 147.4 lbs*fps

now most of the Buffalo I shoot have been shot with some thing else's & I'm trying to stop them going some where bad, where retrieval & even taking photos is very difficult or deadly & the 480gr just didn't seem to stop them as fast IMO !
Most likely good for all round use but really should be using the .458Win on the biggest game, just it is the rifle/caliber I carry the most & have easiest axcess to !

The sort of moderation of a 480-grainer at 2150 fps is really only important for recoil reduction,
faster follow-up shots with better accuracy,
and for preventing bad behavior by the FMJ "solid" that cannot be pushed too hard,
thus assuring more reliable solid-like behavior by that antique style of bullet.
Better for the precision work of elephant brain shots.
Plenty of penetration, but the slightly lower sectional density at same velocity will cause less deforming stress on the bullet nose with impact on bone,
and the slightly shorter bullet length does not worsen stability for staying straight !!!

Richard Harland reported praise for .458/ 450-grainers at 2300 fps for elephant hunting (solids).
We all know that the FN brass solid is the ultimate solid.

450-gr @ 2300 fps: KE = 5285 ft-lbs ... Mo = 147.9 lbs*fps

That might be the ultimate finesse load for an FN brass solid in the SAAMI .458 Winchester Magnum.

Even though the .458 WIN+P+L can do more than any .458 Lott when allowed same COL and MAP,
why bother with 450-grainer at 2450 fps and 5997 ft-lbs KE
or 400-grainer at 2600 fps and 6004 ft-lbs KE ?

Finn Aagaard and Phil Shoemaker have both praised to high-happy the .458/ 400-grain X-Bullet at 2300 fps or lesser MV.
For the more aerodynamic .458/ 400-gr soft nose bullet in any SAAMI .458 Winchester Magnum, 2400 fps is easy nowadays.

400-gr @ 2400 fps: KE = 5116 ft-lbs ... Mo = 137.1 lbs*fps

That is very nice on the shoulder, less kick than a .416 Rigby gunpowder rocket,
and any girl can handle one of those, if she wants to.
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Got the Lee 6-cavity .358"/ 158-gr FN-Plain-Base mould in the mail today, and I have a bunch of Blue Sabots on hand, and 2# of Trail Boss.
But I gotta head to the woods to commune with the deer meat tomorrow.
I will console myself with creating squirrel loads for the .458 WIN'M if I do not get a deer this first weekend, or celebrate success same way.
The .461"/ 579-gr FNGC "Big Blue" bullets at 1399 fps are the deer bullets for the The Knik Knocker this season.
patriot
.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
Nota bene: In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Go get ‘em Rip!!
Remember with the trajectory of that big blue bullet you can slip one over the bushes into the vitals from about 300 yards out. Sharpsguy II kind of shooting.


"The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights."
~George Washington - 1789
 
Posts: 2025 | Location: Where God breathes life into the Amber Waves of Grain and owns the cattle on a thousand hills. | Registered: 20 August 2002Reply With Quote
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Thanks RIP for the book reviews; I greatly appreciate that!

Bob
www.bigbores.ca


"Let every created thing give praise to the LORD, for he issued his command, and they came into being" - King David, Psalm 148 (NLT)

 
Posts: 766 | Location: Kawartha Lakes, ONT, Canada | Registered: 21 November 2008Reply With Quote
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Bob,
Welcome, 'twas my pleasure, for THE MISSION

Fury01,

We call it "deer hunting" not "deer killing" season for a reason, eh?
Well, I have hunted high and low on the property of a friend in central Kentucky, for three days, though rained and blown out of one of those days.
No kill yet, but I was packing a .458 WinM with homemade cast bullets, so that made it even more special.
My "hunt report" so far:

I arrived at The Fort on Friday afternoon and was greeted by my friend "Curtis" and his pet "Bucky."
That is Bucky on the left below.
He was adopted last year, a few days after I adopted the running doe at 150 yards with a .458/ 400-gr GSC HV at just over 2500 fps MV:

 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Hunting hi and lo, I started off the next AM (Saturday) sitting in the hi-ladder treestand until my butt went numb.
Bob is very familiar with an identical stand he has in Canada.
It was a bluebird day, started off at 50 and got up to 70 degrees F, unseasonably warm, Indian Summer's last gasp:



Then I took the load out of the chamber and climbed down to walk over to the lo-ladder treestand.

 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Last year I adopted the doe in the process of walking over to this location:



Alas, no adoption on this walk, but it is so lo-ladder that I can set Alderella on the seat before I climb up to sit:



I also watched scores of wild turkey helicoptering in through the tree tops to land within 50 yards of me in the ravine last year,
and single-filing along the ridge top to the west of the lo-ladder, last year,
not this year.
There was a rascal dog chasing game on the property this year.
A bad neighbor has let him go feral and might be more sorry about that one day. He is indeed a sorry neighbor already.
I listened to the music of the hound this year,
there at the headwaters of Can't Canoe Creek, spring fed.
The cur wouldn't shut up, chasing game away.
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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View from the lo-ladder treestand, the doe was adopted last year near the middle of this picture:

 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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I went on walkabout after lunch and it was unproductive, hunting deer and dog.
Sunday, next day was pouring rain and the wind blew hard.
Curtis went to church and I stayed home and read the bible of elephant hunting in an easy chair.
The weather did not let up until Monday.
Monday morn was a nice 35 degrees F, sunny and calm.
So I did the hi-ladder and lo-ladder treestands again and then went on walkabout again.
I really "got down to it" this time.
Paused for a while at a really low, no-ladder treestand.
My rifle did the tree-standing wedged between two saplings, while I sat on a rectangular rock at the base of the tree:





Alderella sneaking about from treestand to treestand:



There she is, treestanding again !
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Going to the end of the property, I felt like Eddie the Eagle about to take off from the ski jump:



We hunt on a property that is the highest point in the county. Sort of a ski slope facing down to the north (the north face) and ending with a ski jump into a cattle farm:



 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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About face and back down to the low point leading up to the ski jump:



The low point is called Soggy Bottoms. It is bisected by Can't Canoe Creek, flowing downward from Lo-Ladder Ravine.

 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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To keep this on topic for THE MISSION, note the NIKON SPOT ON buttstock card.
Amended lower BC resulted in MV of 1406 fps,
for the .461"/ 579-gr FNGC Big Blue, sub-MOA for 3 shots at 200 yards,
with a rainbow trajectory:



Reverse side of card:

 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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A mile from the ski slope, meaning next knob to the west, a good neighbor spotted a black bear sunning on the hillside:



Same neighbor has seen a mountain lion on a trailcam.
Amazing to me !

And here is Rascal, who has been caught turning over trash cans at The Fort at the top of the ski slope, highest point in the county,
when he is not running deer and turkey:



So I struck out on deer, but two coyotes were seen at midday, loping across the hillside where I adopted the doe last year.
Problem animal control is needed,
possibly black bear, mountain lion, coyote and feral-behaving pet dog.
Huntin' season ain't over yet !
Bubba's .458 WinM sabot loads are not legal for squirrel hunting here, but that will not stop development for target practice and varmint use.
Some sort of muzzleloader capable of accepting same Trail Boss and .45/.35 sabot loads may be devised so as to be legal for squirrels here in Kentucky.
BB&BMT, Ltd. is on it ! tu2

patriot
.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
Nota bene: In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

The longer load plus higher pressure is a Lott of fun.
But three point three four and sixty thousand will get it done,
if the rifle is chambered for the four five eight Winchester.
Believe the Three Mahohbohs, or you're a monkey's sister.
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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As redeeming social value, I wish to test some factory loads in as close to a standard rifle as I can find,
the .458 Winchester Magnum M70 Super Grade "Safari Rifle."
It is South Carolina FN-made, Cabela's 50th Anniversary model (2011), walnut stocked, weight 9.0 lbs.
It has a 24" barrel of 1:14" twist, 6-groove, 0.730" muzzle diameter.
I slugged it and found no irregularities, 0.459" groove diameter and a SAAMI throat by Rod & Slug method.




Six factory loads to be chronographed on same day for comparison:



 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Starting with the bottom one above and working upward in bullet weight:

 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Great report even without deer. I’ll take up the cause first week of December.


"The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights."
~George Washington - 1789
 
Posts: 2025 | Location: Where God breathes life into the Amber Waves of Grain and owns the cattle on a thousand hills. | Registered: 20 August 2002Reply With Quote
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Fury01, buy a donkey !

Reportedly, there was a 450-gr Banded Solid at same 2240 fps MV.
From this Barnes data it is easy to see how that is possible.
They show a 2385 fps load with H335,
meaning COL 3.340" or less and pressure 60,000 psi or less:


 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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No steel jackets here, unlike the Hornady DGX bonded.
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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HUBBA HUBBA !
A clear plastic ammo box to show off those HYDRO nipples !
But they have pasties on them !
These are the rare 500-gr HYDRO, exclusive to Federal ?
Not sold to handloaders who can get only the more sensible .458/ 480-gr HYDRO at heaviest ?

 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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This might be the old non-bonded DGX but it will have to do.
They come as "DGX-Bonded" or some such now.
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Not steel jacketed either. Not exactly a "best bullet" anymore.
Diameters of the bullet here and there on its sides will be interesting.
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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A deluge of ammo porn must be endured to find some redeeming social value in the chronographing !
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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