Please give opinions on the value of this round.
Is there any advantage in its extra velocity other than recoil and the chance of Bullet failure?
Any use on Big game within 100m?
Your thoughts?

The PH's (2) that I've hunted with so far have unconditionally hated it (usually has a brake/excessive blast, overpenetration, bullet "blow-up). That said, it CAN be loaded to more sedate velocities and then is essentially a 375 H&H which is a very much "loved" cartridge. For long range big game hunting...elk, big bears, etc....it is probably at its best.
There's my $.02.

Of course I didn't mention recoil .

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

If you can stand the recoil, I think it's a great caliber whose reputation was somewhat tarnished by inferior bullets when the round first came out.
With today's super premiums that hold together, I think it's a devastating round as I am a firm believer that velocity significantly contributes to a round's kiling efficacy. jorge

I just got mine. It'll be a giant STW. It's a little shiny but should be awsome on Moose and Elk. I used the 338/378 last year and it was very impressive. Hard to argue with 300 TSXs at 2900+ fps. I know some here think anything over 2500 FPs is a waist. Thats their opinion.

It's great - as long as you pull the bullets, resize the cases to .500 A-Square dimensions and load them up with 570-600 grain bullets at 2,300-2,500 fps.

In other words, IMHO, the .378 is the wrong caliber for its mammoth sized case.

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
It's great - as long as you pull the bullets, resize the cases to .500 A-Square dimensions and load them up with 570-600 grain bullets at 2,300-2,500 fps.

In other words, IMHO, the .378 is the wrong caliber for its mammoth sized case.

I wouldn't personally own one, becuase- Just liek the RUM cartridges- I think it's "too much of a good thing"

I dont' know if the extra velocity helps kill better, and though the trajectory woudl be flatter, I dont' think it woudl be so much flatter to make a huge difference.

If I want more power than a 375 Ruger, I'll go up in bullet diameter, not velocity.

BUT...

I dont' think it's a *bad* cartridge, and I won't start threads proclaiming it;s doom, it's just not something I would personally use...

Its like the 280 VS 7 STW. Both good, some like one others like the other. As to recoil, after shooting full power modern loads in the Rigby the 378 is not a big deal.

I'd love to have one. Recoil without a muzzle brake is stunning however. Bullet construction has caught up with the strain of higher velocity.

I think it is an ultimate thin skinned "trophy hunter's" cartridge under certain conditions where shots have to be taken at longer range.

If you are lazy, like me, then the 378 in Mark V is good. With the in line feed PF there is none of the stuffing about for feeding. They come with barrel lug bedded and two internal cross bolts. A 3 shot magazine option is avaiable from Wby.

If you like 375 H&H ballistics then you don't need to stuff around fine tuning some load to get the combo of accuracy and velocity. The 378 will duplicate the 375 and with low pressure with powders from 3031 to H1000.

Anyone who loves the idea of loading the 416 Rigby back to 416 Rem should like the 378 even more as the 378 is a little bigger than the 416 Rigby case and the 375 is a little smaller than the 416 Remington

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
Please give opinions on the value of this round.
Is there any advantage in its extra velocity other than recoil and the chance of Bullet failure?
Any use on Big game within 100m?
Your thoughts?

In a word NO.
Bill

Bill,

Wouldn't a 378 with low pressure loads giving the 350 grain Woodleigh 2400-2500 be a good choice for closer ranges.

Once a bullet has achieved enough velocity to produce clean kills, any additional velocity only adds to the range of it's usefuless.

Is there a need for a 600 yard cape buffalo gun?

Personally, IMO the Weatherby magnums have outlived their usefulness as none of them are truly more useful than their conventional counterpart. By this I mean:
.240 Wby.....vs 6MM Rem
.257 Wby.....vs 25-06
.270 Wby.....vs .270 Winchester
7MM Wby......vs 7MM Rem Mag
300 Wby......vs .300 Win Mag
.340 Wby.....vs .338 Mag
.378 Wby.....vs 375 Ruger
.460 Wby.....vs .458 Lott

Not sure why anyone would want to down load a Wby! Get a girlie gun if it's too much or you don't need the power or range. Don't use cheap bullets in a real gun. Comparing that list of conventional calibers to Wby calibers is a joke as anyone who's looked at the ballistics or owned the guns will tell you.

A 375 Ruger ain't no 378 Wby and a 458 Lott ain't no 460 Wby!!! I like the little 375 Ruger and will own one soon but comparing that thing to a 378 Weatherby is like comparing a Cessna 172 to an F16!! Pleeeease! V-Dog!!! I'm shocked at your Blasphemy!!

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
Not sure why anyone would want to down load a Wby! Get a girlie gun if it's too much or you don't need the power or range. Don't use cheap bullets in a real gun. Comparing that list of conventional calibers to Wby calibers is a joke as anyone who's looked at the ballistics or owned the guns will tell you.

A 375 Ruger ain't no 378 Wby and a 458 Lott ain't no 460 Wby!!! I like the little 375 Ruger and will own one soon but comparing that thing to a 378 Weatherby is like comparing a Cessna 172 to an F16!! Pleeeease! V-Dog!!! I'm shocked at your Blasphemy!!

In several of these cases I've owned and hunted with both.....let me repeat it.....the Weatherby rounds are not what they're cracked up to be!!!!.....they are of very little usefulness over their conventional counterparts. This comes from the field.....not the rocking chair looking at tables!

Well Mister Dog! Could you enlighten us with some specific cases in which you have found a particular "conventional" case to be "more useful" than it's Weatherby counterpart because the "sitting in front of our computer and not in the field home audience" would like to know what you know!!

quote:

they are of very little usefulness over their conventional counterparts

quote:

found a particular "conventional" case to be " more useful "

Do you need new glasses?

quote:

Why the 378Weatherby?

To the original question.....

The .378 was developed solely to out do the competitor the old .375 H&H.....something the .375 Wby didn't do very well and the .378 does it in style.......but it really didn't fool many folks as the old H&H offering really didn't need to be reinvented. It was liked by the shooters "as-is"

Are you making fun of my reading comprehension skills V-Dog?!?! Actually, I don't wear glasses but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express and know when I'm being

Therapist - "So Mister V-Dog...what was your earliest memory of hatred towards Mr. Weatherby's ideas?" Mr. V-Dog - " I don't hate them I just don't think they are very useful" Therapist - "Well do you feeeel that way because you had a bad experience as a child with a Weatherby?" V-Dog - " Well....silence.....I tried to use one once but the recoil was well....." Therapist - "Frightening? ....It's Ok Mr. V-Dog!....many people have fears and prejudices..... we can overcome them if we really want to...."

I must say I love a shit.
I just can't see any value in pushing a 300grn 375 bullet more than 2500fps and 350grn bullets more than 2400fps in particularly for big game in the tropics.

Next time you make a one shot kill on a large animal with your 375 H&H at 500 yards please post the results for us to see!!

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
I must say I love a shit.
I just can't see any value in pushing a 300grn 375 bullet more than 2500fps and 350grn bullets more than 2400fps in particularly for big game in the tropics.

You can have that in the 378 and with very low pressure and a whole array of powder choices.

But a 375 can't run up to 3000 f/s with 300 grainers and 3150 f/s with 270 grainers and 3400 f/s with 225 grainers.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by WbyPower:
But a 375 can't run up to 3000 f/s with 300 grainers and 3150 f/s with 270 grainers and 3400 f/s with 225 grainers.

Mike

I can't imagine where I would need a 300grn bullet at any where near 3000fps.
And I have a vivid imagination.
Adam

quote:

I can't imagine where I would need a 300grn bullet at any where near 3000fps.
And I have a vivid imagination.
Adam

In that case just take the 378's advantage of being able to duplicate the 375 H&H and do it with very low pressure and with lots of different powders

One load I use is 85 grains of 2208 and 270 grain Hornady which does just under 2700 f/s and is still 9-10 grains less than a maximum pressure load with 2208.

100 grains of 2209 and 270 grain is just over 2800 f/s and still 7-9 grains under max for that powder. I am still in second gear

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
Next time you make a one shot kill on a large animal with your 375 H&H at 500 yards please post the results for us to see!!

I'll do that but in the meantime would you post the photos of game you've killed with the .378...I'd love to see photos!

Here's a mule deer taken at 462 (paced) yards with a .375 H&H 270 grain Hornady in a 1917 Enfield conversion.

quote:

Originally posted by WbyPower:
In that case just take the 378's advantage of being able to duplicate the 375 H&H and do it with very low pressure and with lots of different powders Mike

I have yet to reach any pressure signs in the over sized H&H case.
But then again Ive been content with AR2209.

You will never get much pressure with 2209 in the H&H and especially if long spitzers are used. 2209 is too slow.

The H&H is not over sized, in fact it is just the opposite which is why the 375 Wby and 375 AI provide increases in velicty that are above and beyond what one would expect from the percentge increase in case capacity.

As to performance on very big game with 375 bore it would appear that Saeed has settled on about 2750 with 300 grainers and he has been between 2600 (375/404 load back), 2800 plus (full power 375/404) and 3100 with 375 Lazzeroni which is basically a 378 less belt.

I think Saeed's results should be quite a good indicator because he does not appear to have any hobby horses and is not stuck with what he has because of finances and of course his big game count is huge compared to most other people.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
Once a bullet has achieved enough velocity to produce clean kills, any additional velocity only adds to the range of it's usefuless.

Is there a need for a 600 yard cape buffalo gun?

Personally, IMO the Weatherby magnums have outlived their usefulness as none of them are truly more useful than their conventional counterpart. By this I mean:
.240 Wby.....vs 6MM Rem
.257 Wby.....vs 25-06
.270 Wby.....vs .270 Winchester
7MM Wby......vs 7MM Rem Mag
300 Wby......vs .300 Win Mag
.340 Wby.....vs .338 Mag
.378 Wby.....vs 375 Ruger
.460 Wby.....vs .458 Lott

In our time powders and bullets have become so much better, the smaller cases are catching up with the original ballistics of the big ones. Heck, a .308 Winchester have more punch and velocity today, than the .300 H&H had back in the 1920's.
So the NEED for the larger ones are not as present as when they were created. But however you slice it, added casevolume makes higher velocities, and there is no doubt about that the w'by's listed above give higher velocities than their conventional counterparts. Faster is flatter and more puch way out there. This is a fact, the USE of it is an entierly different duscussion. Then we are talking etics and "how long is to far"?

For the original Q, inside 100yards, it will only make follow-ups harder, and IMO it is darned near useless. Bullet-diameter, not speed, is what matters when the game is close and scary. As a long range rig for the biggest plainsgame, it is hard to beat.

Vapodog shot that beautiful buck at 462 paces with a .375H&H. What were you doing in the woods with a muledeer-license and a .375H&H??? Were your .30-06 not USEFUL enough? Seems to me, Webby-owners are not the only ones with too much horsepower....

Uh...I knocked the head off of a duck at 125 yards with a H&H. It was delightful.
The arguement comes down as this, there is no right or wrong. The .375 is a amazingly versatile cartridge capable of taking any animal that walks the planet and reasonably at that. Amongst most shooting situations the H&H can be loaded to it, less we're talking about wingshooting. Another advantage is the recoil is low enough to just about anyone can learn how to shoot it. It has a reputation built off of almost 100 years of use and experience by professional hunters and just your average joe looking for something with a little more horsepower than his dad's 30-06.
Now the Weatherby takes the advantages of the H&H and puts it into overdrive. Now you have a cartridge that spits and roars and does all sorts of things that can either freak people out or give them a hard on. The recoil is rough yet not unmanageable. Yet the energy and trajectory produced by this combination is outstanding. The plus side of it all? It can be downloaded to match the H&H if truely needed, therefor creating a dual purpose cartridge, well if you need to do something like that at least. As for the recoil in a "stopping" situation, the bullet diameter is a touch restrictive in my honest opinion however it'll still work. A bullet through a vitals is a bullet through the vitals.
Just as a side note, a squirrel hit by a .375 RUM is rather impressive. I haven't laughed so hard in my life.

I just love Weatherby vs xxxx discussions... Yes, most of the time they are MORE then enough based on bullet diameter but they'll still get the job DONE.... Is my 338-378 overkill for the likes of an elk at 50 to 200 yards?? Sure but whether I put my '06 (180 grain) through the vitals at 2700 fps or my Weatherby (225 grain) at 3200 fps it's still going to die... There are many folks that use a 375 H&H for elk and that is certainly MORE then enough but it WORKS... It's all about bullet placement and what you like to shoot, even if what you like to shoot will bring down a dinosaur...

Ken....

There is no doubt that the super fast 375s kill Buffalo size game but I can not see any benefit where as disadvantages such as extra muzzle blast and recoil which can increase the chance of flinching and not so great shooting.
Then there is the faster velocity which can increase deflection and or bullet failure.
I have seen these disadvantages more than enough.
I am quite happy with the performance and results of 300grn bullets at 2480fps and 350grn bullets at 2360fps from the 375H&H Magnum with AR2209 powder with no pressure sign .

Why has Saeed settled on 2750 when he can just as easily have 2500 f/s. It can't be because he does not want to use reduced loads since he is already using reduced loads.

A 378 loaded back with low pressure 2208 loads to duplicate 375 has a softer blast than the 375. If the 378 is loaded to equal 375 then how will have it have increased projectile deflection and or failure?

The disadvantage I would see for some people is the restricted action/rifle availability for the 378. However, the 375 RUM would work on any action that is OK for the 375 H&H.

quote:

Originally posted by WbyPower:
If the 378 is loaded to equal 375 then how will have it have increased projectile deflection and or failure?

By doing this I still see no value in using a Larger case particularly when pressure is not an issue.

quote:

Originally posted by Bent Fossdal:
Vapodog shot that beautiful buck at 462 paces with a .375H&H. What were you doing in the woods with a muledeer-license and a .375H&H??? Were your .30-06 not USEFUL enough? Seems to me, Webby-owners are not the only ones with too much horsepower....

Why have you assumed I was "in the woods"?.....A Nebraska license is good for any deer either Mulie or whitetail and the .375 just happened to be what I had with me at the time as I was going to the range to try a new lot of powder.....same powder just new lot purchased.

quote:

By doing this I still see no value in using a Larger case particularly when pressure is not an issue.

A few reasons. I am not saying these reasons are applicable to everyone but your topic was Why a 378 and could just have been Why a 378 or 375 RUM.

1) If we specify approximate 375 ballistics I will bet that I can get good accuracy with more 375 bullets than I could get with the H&H. I simply have much wider loading parameters.

2) Also accuracy related. Rifles loaded back to equal the ballistics of a smaller case, most notable being 416 Rigby/416 Rem, seem to be less critical with bedding and also easier on scopes and mounts. I think you will find this is one of the reasons that people get such good results from the 416 Rigby. The low pressure loads result in the bullet being accelarated more gradually. I can tell you for a fact that a 460 loaded to around 2200/2300 does not belt a scope like a 458 with full power loads.

3) More important in Australia than the US....a much wider range of powders will give 375 ballistics in the 378 or 375 RUM. 2206, 2206H, 2208, 2209, 2213 and 2217 will all give 375 ballistics and at lower pressure.

4) The same rifle becomes a big 300 Magnum. With brake on a 378 just sort of sits there.

For me, the one part that is missing from 378s is you can't get loads with bullets like the 220 Horady doing 2100 or so. 40 grains of 2205 does that perfectly in the 375. If fillers are not to be used (I never use them) the 378 will come down to what would be low end 375 (270 grainers at 2500 and 300 grainers at 2300) or you have to jump down to shotgun powders and 1500 f/s or so with 220 grainers. Be different if we had the AccurateArms reduced load powder...but we don't.

In short, the 378 is way ahead of the 375 for the bloke who is a guns/ammo nut and keen reloader. Saeed's experience would also strongly suggest that there is a lot of value for big grame shooting with a 300 grainer at 2750 or so. With a 375 that is something you will never test. With a 378 it is just a quick twist on the powder measure

Mike

Why the 378? Because! More powerful cartridges are just that. Sure, animals may be just as dead with a 375 H&H as with a 378, but what about the one time you need the extra oomph or could use a little bit better trajectory? Personally, I'd rather have it and not need it than the other way around. The loading versatility offered by the larger cases provides more options for velocity at the same or lower pressures than their "regular" counterparts. Modern bullet construction has taken care of failure issues with high velocity, so many of the faults of the past are gone. Admit it or not, more velocity with the same bullet means more killing power.

The argument of why choose a 270wby over a 270win, etc. is inherently flawed, as it dismisses the notion that cartridges, or more specifically bullet diameters, can be made better from their original iterations. You ask why the 378? Why the 300 win mag since it will kill nothing more than the 30-06? Why the 458 win mag or 458 Lott since they will kill nothing better than a 450/400? This could go on and on.

My point is, we as ETHICAL hunters are bound by the obligation to dispatch animals as cleanly, quickly, and humanely as possible. This means delivering as much energy to a target as possible to accomplish that task. If you can handle a 378 (this point is irrelevant if you can't shoot it accurately), why would you not choose that instead of a 375 H&H when appropriate? I say hit 'em as hard as possible!

Amen Clayman, good last paragraph.

I must apologies for not clarifying my statement, it was late.
The point most of the responders are missing is the UNDER 100 meters part.
Yes the .378 may be better at over 100 Meters but you are putting up with higher levels of recoil and not that much increase in velocity. That being said the .375 caliber rifles are generally used on game mostly dangers game under 100 m., if your PH, can’t get you closer……..
I went and dug up some old records “Usual disclaimers applyâ€
.375 H&H 300 Grain 2600 fps 24 in bbl 82 gr 4350
.378 Weatherby 300 Grain 2824 fps 26 in bbl 102.6 gr 4350
224 fps more velocity 20.6 gr more powder, more recoil less recovery time.
Both generate over 5000 lbs of energy. I dought that any animal can tell the difference.
I don’t have any load data on the 350 gr bullets but at 2500 they will not be a reduced/low pressure load and recoil will be even worse than with the 300.
I think the improvement in bullet design has done more to improve performance than the small increase in velocity.
When you listen to PHs who get to see lots of game shot they say if you want more reaction to bullet impact use a bigger caliber.
So my answer to the inquiry.
“Is there any advantage in its extra velocity other than recoil and the chance of Bullet failure?
Any use on Big game within 100m?â€
is still NO.
Bill

.375 H&H 300 Grain 2600 fps 24 in bbl 82 gr 4350

Bill,

Pressure is OK with 82 grains of IMR 4350 BUT you will be stuck with very short bullets such as the 300 grain Hornady, neck sized brass (greater capacity) and the load will still be extremely compressed.Try putting putting 82 grains of 4350 in a new 375 case or a FLSized 375 case. 82 grains is an excellent load with 300 grain Barnes X bullets

Reloader 15 will get the 2600 with 73 grains in most rifles but that is a real top end load.

.378 Weatherby 300 Grain 2824 fps 26 in bbl 102.6 gr 4350

Ridiculous powder choice for top loads in the 378 and 300 grain bullets. 4350 will not even get top velocity with 270 grain bullets.

I don’t have any load data on the 350 gr bullets but at 2500 they will not be a reduced/low pressure load and recoil will be even worse than with the 300.

2500 with 350 grainers in the 378 is a piece of cake and with reduced loads in the 378. If recoil is too much then load the 300 grain bullets to 2500 in the 378

Mike

When the .378 Weatherby first hit the market, the folks at Weatherby took one on safari and as time went on they found a fine Cape Buffalo bull walking on the edgeof the herd. (I assume they was shooting Hornady's steel solids then)

As the advertizing article went the hunter drew down on the bull and fired and the bull died in a few yards.....as did the buffalo directly behind it.....as did a third animal in the herd!!!!!

According to Weatherby advertizing, they actually killed three cape buffalo with one shot!

Today those folks might be using softs such as A-Frames or Northforks or triple-X and reduced penetration a bunch.

Can one have too much rifle?????.....