There's nothing "wrong" with surplus horsepower unless you can't shoot it well. The 378 Wby is punishing without the muzzle brake for me, and I hate muzle brakes so I don't own one. But if you can (a) shoot one well without a brake or (b) don't mind muzzle brakes, then I see no reason not to buy one. It kills with great authority, as one would expect.

As for the dead-is-dead crowd who think it is overkill, so is a 30-30 compared to a baseball bat. Let folks shoot what they want and quit second-guessing their choice on the internet.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

Can one have too much rifle?????.....

Not in my book but one can take shots one shouldn't. That particular one sounds a bit careless to me if that was all there was to it.

In my personal experience I can remember 200-300 ordinary hunting occasions where a 30-06 or even 270 was way too much gun at that particular time and event, but it worked.

quote:

Originally posted by Clayman:
Why the 378? Modern bullet construction has taken care of failure issues with high velocity, so many of the faults of the past are gone.


My point is, we as ETHICAL hunters are bound by the obligation to dispatch animals as cleanly, quickly, and humanely as possible. This means delivering as much energy to a target as possible to accomplish that task. If you can handle a 378 (this point is irrelevant if you can't shoot it accurately), why would you not choose that instead of a 375 H&H when appropriate? I say hit 'em as hard as possible!

Modern bullets in the field still DO fail.
In particular at unnecessarily high velocity.
All too often.
The bullets I have seen fail after been shot unnecessarily fast have not dispatched the animal any cleaner.

quote:

Modern bullets in the field still DO fail.
In particular at unnecessarily high velocity.
All too often.
The bullets I have seen fail after been shot un unnecessarily fast have not dispatched the animal any cleaner.

ozhunter,

You are still choosing to ignore the simple fact that the 378 (and 375 RUM) can not only play in the 375's velocity spectrum but do it easier.

Tell me some stuff the 375 can do that I can't do with a 378 or 375 RUM.

Mike

This thread is reminding me of all those PF versus CRF threads.

quote:

Originally posted by WbyPower:
You will never get much pressure with 2209 in the H&H and especially if long spitzers are used. 2209 is too slow.

The H&H is not over sized, in fact it is just the opposite which is why the 375 Wby and 375 AI provide increases in velicty that are above and beyond what one would expect from the percentge increase in case capacity.

As to performance on very big game with 375 bore it would appear that Saeed has settled on about 2750 with 300 grainers and he has been between 2600 (375/404 load back), 2800 plus (full power 375/404) and 3100 with 375 Lazzeroni which is basically a 378 less belt.

I think Saeed's results should be quite a good indicator because he does not appear to have any hobby horses and is not stuck with what he has because of finances and of course his big game count is huge compared to most other people.

Mike

Hey Mike,

Quit using Saeed as an example, he hasn't shot THAT many buffalo...........he really doesn't have any experience on them, unlike the rest of US

And his choice of calibre and rifle must be based on economic reasons

quote:

Originally posted by WbyPower:

quote:

Modern bullets in the field still DO fail.
In particular at unnecessarily high velocity.
All too often.
The bullets I have seen fail after been shot un unnecessarily fast have not dispatched the animal any cleaner.

ozhunter,

You are still choosing to ignore the simple fact that the 378 (and 375 RUM) can not only play in the 375's velocity spectrum but do it easier.

Tell me some stuff the 375 can do that I can't do with a 378 or 375 RUM.

Mike

ozhunter,

I see your location is Sydney.......do you go to Silverdale rifle range?

Mike

I thought people used Webbys cos they are super loud.

quote:

Originally posted by WbyPower:
ozhunter,

I see your location is Sydney.......do you go to Silverdale rifle range?

Mike

Mike
Yes, often with some friends.
We turn up in a Prado full of Blasers ect.
My biggest complaint about the Big Magnums is the fact that so many people turn up to a hunt with the hot factory loads and think thats all that is required to kill the game.
All the Pro hunters I have met in Africa, NZ, New Cal and Aus complain about this problem and how these people are so often afraid of their rifles and shoot like shit.
They always go on to say they much prefer a hunter to turn up with a mild recoiling Rifle and be comfortable in using it.
Don't get me wrong, I like high velocity calibers such as the 300Weatherby for us such as in Asia after Sheep and Ibex ect. But for Africa and the like, theres no plan.

An Ibex with a 300Weatherby

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
This thread is reminding me of all those PF versus CRF threads.

May I remind you that you still haven't posted photos of those 500 yard kills you've made with you .378 Wby!!.....I posted mine...remember?

Now V-Dog!! Did I ever say I killed anything with a .378 anything at any range!?!? Nope!! As far as you slaying that beast at 462 "paces" with an Enfield in .375..........I have doubts about the size of your "paces" but it really doesn't matter what I think because I wasn't there!!

In case you needed confirmation - I'm not a hunter - don't shoot animals because I don't have the time or interest!

Any other challenges you'd like to throw down??

quote:

Yes, often with some friends.
We turn up in a Prado full of Blasers ect.
My biggest complaint about the Big Magnums is the fact that so many people turn up to a hunt with the hot factory loads and think thats all that is required to kill the game.
Don't get me wrong, I like high velocity calibers such as the 300Weatherby

30/06.....300 Wby
375.......378 Wby

This thread, in principle, has been run a 1000 times on a 100 different sites but with the calibres being 30/06 and 300 Wby.

Even your.....My biggest complaint about the Big Magnums is the fact that so many people turn up to a hunt with the hot factory loads and think thats all that is required to kill the game. will be found in such threads as 30/06 Vs 300 Wby.

Whether the shooter can handle a calibre is not the issue. For example, many people can't handle a 300 Wby and are stuck with a 270 Wby/7mm Rem or a 30/06.

A 378 can do all a 300 Wby can do. If for Africa, Saeed is wrong and 2500 is the number then that can be done with the 378 just as Saeed has his 375/404 loaded back from its full potential. If someone is limited to factory loads that is not a calibre issue, that is a shooter issue.

Have you ever shot a 378 loaded to duplicate a 375?

Mike

If you load a 378 to make it shoot like a 375, why not just shoot your 375?

quote:

If you load a 378 to make it shoot like a 375, why not just shoot your 375?

The 378 will do 375 ballistics with total ease and a huge range of powders. The very wide loading parameters mean the chances of getting good accuracy with any given bullet or powder are greater.

And of course a quick twist on the powder measure and the 378 turns into a big 300 Magnum.

But that's what I have my .300 Mag for...

I think if you shoot a .378 Webby you should make it be a .378 Webby.



Hate "one rifle fits all" people. It's like my dad, "If you just had one of these you could get rid of most of your rifles and just use it..." But why would I want to get rid of most of my rifles? I actually would like to have even more.

On a weird bastard .375 note...some more bits for my .375H&H Magnum (flanged) are on the way by DHL. Then I'll have a 5th kind of .375 Magnum rifle (once I build it).

Tom,

Why do so many people buy a 416 Rigby and then load it back to 416 Remington. Why not just get a 416 Remington?

Actually, I am not a "one rifle for all" but have multi rifles in the same calibre. In fact it has only been on the rarest of times that I have owned more than two different cartrdges at the same time.

In more recent years, perhaps 10 or so years, I have drifted into the general idea of using the bigger cartridge to get the desired ballistics. So if I wanted a 300 Win tomorrow I would get a 300 RUM or 30/378. If it was to be a 270 Win then I would have a 270 Wby or 7mm Rem.

One reason I like multi rifles in the same calibre is because of components and that is more relevant to Australia than the US of A. In the case of "a kit of 378s" they not only offer a much wider spread of ballistics than the 375 but also will use a much wider range of powders than the 375.

As a side note, if good brass was readily available in 375 H&H Flanged I would like a pair of them done on Ruger No 1s.

Mike

quote:

As a side note, if good brass was readily available in 375 H&H Flanged I would like a pair of them done on Ruger No 1s.

Mike

If I can drum up enough people interested I may be looking into making that happen. The current project is going to be a Westley Richards copy. I do have number one rifles also, and I've thought about doing it, but I need to finish this one first.

Cheers,
Tom

Huintingtons have Horneber listed.

11166 .375 F Mag 52.98

It is becoming a real pain in the arse getting stuff like cases out of America. In Australia it can be difficult if the various components are not imported by one of the gun import agents.

Of course there is always Bertram

quote:

Originally posted by WbyPower:
Tell me some stuff the 375 can do that I can't do with a 378 or 375 RUM. Mike

Fit and be fired in a sub-3.8kg rifle comfortably and without a break
Cheers...
Con

quote:

Originally posted by WbyPower:
Huintingtons have Horneber listed.

11166 .375 F Mag 52.98

It is becoming a real pain in the arse getting stuff like cases out of America. In Australia it can be difficult if the various components are not imported by one of the gun import agents.

Of course there is always Bertram

I'm looking into tooling to make them myself. I shoot enough weird stuff that it might be worthwhile. Most people that make brass for weird stuff I'm interested don't make very good brass. I won't name any names.

I still think the .375 flanged is an underrated cartridge and it would be fun to bring it back if I can manage it.

Tom

quote:

Fit and be fired in a sub-3.8kg rifle comfortably and without a break
Cheers...
Con

Con,

Can do that with the 378.

85 grains of 2208 with either 225 grainer or 270 grainers. Velocity just under 2700 with both bullets. Pressure like a 30/30.

Try again

Mike

Mike,
Well you must have different reloding data “down underâ€.
I went and looked at some new data as the outher data I posted was from “real†loding experience. The reason I used that data it is apples –apples. 4350 is an exalent powder for the .375H&H it still gives top velocity. I am now using H4350 the current data at Hodgdon Powder Co. list this load 300 gr SIE. SPBT MAX LOAD 81.5c 2645 fps and yes it is a compressed load.

“Reloader 15 will get the 2600 with 73 grains in most rifles but that is a real top end load.â€

Yes it must be a real top load as on ALLIANT’S web site for Reloder 15 is 66.5 and it of list a velocity of 2455 fps with 49600 C.U.P. pressure one can only wonder at what the pressure would be like at 73 gr.
“2500 with 350 grainers in the 378 is a piece of cake and with reduced loads in the 378. If recoil is too much then load the 300 grain bullets to 2500 in the 378â€

I still haven’t found lode data for the 350 gr bullets in eather the H&H or wtherbey do you have a sorce?
UPDATE: I just looked at Norma's site and the published velocity for the 350 gr H&H load is 2300 fps so I stand with what I said the load at 2500 in the 378 would be a hot load, to hot most likley.

All that aside the queston was
Is there any advantage in its extra velocity other than recoil and the chance of Bullet failure?
Any use on Big game within 100m?
Your thoughts?
My thoughts have not changed after reading all the post. No there is no advantage. You will have more recoil for minimal velocity gain.
Bill

Mike,

Speaking of brass, I left 120, 378 cases, Steve Larbalastier had for you, with Mark at the range office at Silverdale.

They should last forever with your reduced to 375H&H loads

LOW pressure is the way to go

Bill Cooley, more recoil with minimal velocity gains? The 378 is 400 fps faster. Yes way more recoil but so what. This isn't a 375 vs. 378 thread. The 375 is an excellent round, I've had several and will have more for sure. The 378 is also excellent for its intended purpose. Delivering major killing power to big critters. I'm the first to admit that the recoil will interfere with certain long range applications (prone) but other than that one situation it is hard to beat. For Africa where you may limit your shots and heat/pressure could be a concern load her back a touch. Mine will be used in the Great White North for Moose and Elk. I certainly don't endorse ultra long range shots but for those 2-400 yders major horsepower dosen't hurt. Its sort of my big mountain rifle, at 9 lbs 6 ounces scoped its lighter than my .416 Rem. or Rigby.

Have killed a few wildebeest and other animals with a 378 Weatherby. They died as fast as ones I have shot with a 375 H&H.

The 378 Wby is helpful in taking care of excess stocks of powder.

Enjoy the 378 Wby.

MTM,
I know you love your 378 but under 100 M it isn’t needed. I have compared loads over a coronagraph and the difference is more like 250-300 I have seen more variation between different rifles of the same caliber.
We don’t know what game the original poster Ozhunter was planning to use it on. He did mention recoil so we must assume he is concerned about the recoil levels in the 378. You can get all the power you need from a .375H&H under 100 M. with less recoil.
Bill

quote:

Originally posted by MTM:
I'm the first to admit that the recoil will interfere with certain long range applications (prone) but other than that one situation it is hard to beat.

That's what shooting sticks are for.

quote:

You can get all the power you need from a .375H&H under 100 M. with less recoil.
Bill

When God made the Earth, He made a finite amount of recoil to be enjoyed. When one person uses recoil, he takes from that finite amount which leaves less for others to enjoy. So we should use recoil sparingly or at least get the maximum enjoyment out of it when we use it.

Of course, rifles of 375 H&H and lesser calibers don't recoil and therefore take none from the finite amount.


.

I'm dying here!!!!!!! Some guys are crying like the 378 Wby is some sort of Howie! It's a friggin' medium caliber bolt gun and the recoil is NOOOOOOOOO big deal. If your name is Tattoo or Mini Me maybe you should stick to Rimfire stuff?!?!?

Bill, I have no intention of getting into a balistics arguement although I haven't seen any 375s that sometimes shoot faster than a 378. As far as all the power you need under 100 yds, I sort of agree but who said anything about need?

The only Webby that actually hurts to shoot, depending on your recoil tolerance, is the .460. Many of them hurt your ears if they are braked but so do a lot of other things.

Bill reckons the 378 is not much faster than the 375 and in fact the velocity difference is no greater than what one finds between different rifles.

Ozhunter and some others reckon the 378 is way too fast and blows up bullets etc

Looks like the anti 378ers are a divided force

Bill, have you actually tried loading 81.5 grains of H4350 and a 300 grain Barnes X in the 375 H&H. The Winchester 375 brass we get in Australia nust be very thick and have a smaller case capacity

I just recently bought the CZ 550 American Safari 458 Lott and that gun is dream to shoot.
I have not shot the 378 Weatherby but from what I've heard it kicks alot.

If speed is blowing up your bullets you might rethink your bullet choices.]

Just saying.

Here's a .378 Weatherby in action now!

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
Here's a .378 Weatherby in action now!

Nice photo V-Dog! Do you have a full size high res version?

I have a 460 and with 500's at 2700 it's still no big deal (with the brake on it) The noise doesn't bother me or anyone else who shoots with me either. If a tracker or guide has a problem with the blast he can cover his ears at the shot.

Yes, I exaggerage a bit but this is roughly the same flash and recoil of the .378 Weatherby

How many Grains of Goex Cannon Black is that per 9 Gun Salute?!?!