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Cecil the Lion Killed by American?
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Posts: 2737 | Location: FL | Registered: 18 September 2007Reply With Quote
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The whole story has been filled with errors from the very beginning, which is why my original reaction was to give the benefit of the doubt till all the FACTS come out. This whole thing is a mess and wouldn't be surprised if this was a legal hunt in the end.
 
Posts: 11636 | Location: Wisconsin  | Registered: 13 February 2006Reply With Quote
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They are absolutely destroying this guy's practice on online patient reviews. He will suffer badly for this.

Jeff
 
Posts: 2737 | Location: FL | Registered: 18 September 2007Reply With Quote
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Minnesota is filled with pro hunting people. Once it blows over he might be just fine. It's not like he lives in New York with a bunch of whining liberals. Unless of course his practice is actually in the city of Minneapolis then he's doomed
 
Posts: 11636 | Location: Wisconsin  | Registered: 13 February 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Heym 450/400:
Minnesota is filled with pro hunting people. Once it blows over he might be just fine. It's not like he lives in New York with a bunch of whining liberals. Unless of course his practice is actually in the city of Minneapolis then he's doomed


Go read the Yelp reviews.

Jeff
 
Posts: 2737 | Location: FL | Registered: 18 September 2007Reply With Quote
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His clientele and legions of antis spamming yelp are two different things. I suspect most of his patients know he's a hunter and are either hunter as well or enjoying chatting with him about it. My dentist travels all over the world hunting and everyone loves looking at his pics and asking questions.
 
Posts: 11636 | Location: Wisconsin  | Registered: 13 February 2006Reply With Quote
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Whether the hunter was Spanish, American or some other nationality, my bet is that he is spending a lot less time today patting himself on the back than he did the day of the hunt . . . in fact, I would be willing to bet he is ruing the decision to take the lion and wishes he could have a Mulligan on that call. Maybe that is the good that will come out of this . . . hunters will remember what happens to this poor selfish fellow and it will keep them from doing something senseless and bad for the sport . . . but I doubt it. We have some that cannot even get past the notion that if it is legal, go for it and damn the consequences.

[I would also be willing to bet that if the hunter is American he has been spending a little time Googling the Lacey Act the last few days.]


Mike
 
Posts: 17403 | Registered: 03 January 2006Reply With Quote
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So you go on a safari in an area that borders a park. You help bait and put in the work. A big male lion comes on bait and your PH says that's a good one go ahead and take him. Do you get out your notebook of all the park lions adjacent to you and review first? Otherwise you would be being unethical and selfish
 
Posts: 11636 | Location: Wisconsin  | Registered: 13 February 2006Reply With Quote
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For the most part, most of the news out there is from the sensationalist news media and their surrogates. Soon enough, the facts will be out there and we can all judge accordingly.
What was the distance of the bait site to the Park boundary, was the collar actually visible? What was the true permit situation? Was the actual intent to lure park animals?
Lots of questions to be answered.
 
Posts: 251 | Location: Marietta, Georgia | Registered: 04 July 2012Reply With Quote
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Mr. Jines,

Wasn't the word obtuse?

Jeff
 
Posts: 2737 | Location: FL | Registered: 18 September 2007Reply With Quote
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Yes.. In fact it was
 
Posts: 11636 | Location: Wisconsin  | Registered: 13 February 2006Reply With Quote
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Is it difficult to live in a world of black and white? Or do you only practice that on the Internet to feel superior?
 
Posts: 11636 | Location: Wisconsin  | Registered: 13 February 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
Mr. Jines,

Wasn't the word obtuse?

Jeff


Yeah it is a word the perfect people like to use.

I guess if you fight for what you like that is ok if your one of them but fight for what you think is ok your hurting everyone else. Get a clue and fight for all hunters who hunt legally and with the rules that are in place.

This lion was not hunted but poached so not saying to fight to save this guys ass. This looks to be a bad deal all around because no tag for that area. The fact it had a collar on has nothing to do with if the lion was fair game or not.
 
Posts: 337 | Location: macungie , Pa | Registered: 21 March 2014Reply With Quote
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http://www.theoutdoorsforum.co...t-bear-hunting-trip/



Posted 29 April 2008 - 11:15 AM
By KEVIN MURPHY
For The Daily Press
Published: Friday, April 25, 2008 9:58 AM CDT

MADISON - A Minnesota man pleaded guilty Tuesday in federal court to lying to authorities regarding killing a black bear in northern Wisconsin during the 2006 hunting season.

Walter J. Palmer, 48, of Eden Prairie, Minn., admitted he falsely told a U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service agent that he shot a black bear near Minong, when he actually shot the bear 40 miles away near Phillips, said Assistant U.S. Attorney Stephen Sinnott.

Palmer wasn't licensed to hunt bear near Phillips in the Zone A management unit established by the Department of Natural Resources between U.S. Highway 51 on the east and several north-south highways to the west, including U.S. Hwy. 63. Palmer had a license to hunt bear in Subzone A1, which includes the northern half of Ashland County and generally extends west to the Wisconsin-Minnesota state line. The name has since been changed to Zone D.

After the bear was killed with a bow and arrow on Sept. 26, 2006, members of Palmer's hunting group, which included Trent Waggoner and Chad Barth, both of Minong, noticed that Palmer's tag was for Subzone A1.

The hunters agreed that if any authorities asked, they would say the bear had been killed off Taylor Lake Road near Minong. The bear was tagged, transported and registered in Subzone A1, where Palmer filled out a form falsely stating the bear had been killed in Subzone A1, according to the indictment.

Palmer then took the bear's remains to Minnesota. During two interviews with U.S. Fish and Wildlife agents in October 2006, Palmer falsely maintained that he shot the bear in Subzone A1, according to the indictment.

At his July 15 sentencing, Palmer faces maximum statutory penalties of five years in prison, and upon conviction of a felony, can't possess a firearm. He has also agreed to forfeit the bear's remains, said Sinnott.

Waggoner, 40, and Barth, 36, both were charged with misdemeanor aiding and abetting the unlawful transport of wildlife in interstate commerce. They both are scheduled to plead guilty and be sentenced on June 11 before Magistrate Stephen Crocker.

According to DNR statistics, Zone D hunters were more successful last year than in any of the state's bear management zones. Zone D had a 550 bear harvest quota, 550 hunting permits were issued and 697 bears were harvested, a 119 percent success rate. In comparison, 1,020 bears were harvested last year in Zone A, with 1,680 permits issued. The zone had a 1,000 bear harvest quota.


Kathi

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Posts: 8062 | Location: Chicago | Registered: 23 July 2003Reply With Quote
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http://www.startribune.com/zim...-the-lion/318828251/

Interesting he was only convicted of a misdemeanor in federal court. Wonder why they left that part out of the above story?
 
Posts: 11636 | Location: Wisconsin  | Registered: 13 February 2006Reply With Quote
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My point being.. It wouldn't be the first time the local DNR or Feds threw the book at someone and accused them of outrageous game violations only to go to court and have your attorney recommend pleading guilty to a lesser misdemeanor in court to have it all "go away". Typical they know this will happen and they can pat themselves on the back
 
Posts: 11636 | Location: Wisconsin  | Registered: 13 February 2006Reply With Quote
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bcap and Heym 450/400,

No one wanted to answer this on the other thread, so we will try on this thread. Maybe you would be so kind as to share your take on this example.

Let's assume that the situation did not involve a lion but involved an elephant. And not just any elephant but it was Duke (who is dead now), one of the magnificent elephants in Kruger National Park. Duke lives in Kruger, is collared and is well known to anyone that is familiar with Kruger. Duke has been in Kruger since he was born decades ago. He is accustomed to seeing vehicles and people virtually everyday that are touring the park. One day Duke wanders out of Kruger on to an adjacent property . . . or perhaps Duke is lured out of Kruger to an artificial waterhole dug to take advantage of a drought in the Kruger area.

* Do you believe it would be responsible for a hunter to shoot Duke?
* Do you believe that a hunter shooting Duke is contributing to the long-term sustainability of elephant hunting?


Mike
 
Posts: 17403 | Registered: 03 January 2006Reply With Quote
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And before everyone jumps on their high horse... If you haven't run across a warden having a bad day looking to hand out a ticket for no good reason. Then you haven't spent to many days in the field. I've seen em straight up lie like you wouldn't believe knowing it will end up in court and they'll get their "conviction"
 
Posts: 11636 | Location: Wisconsin  | Registered: 13 February 2006Reply With Quote
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Mr Jines


I answered that question on the other thread. If your scenario went as you lay it out then it is no good in my eyes
 
Posts: 11636 | Location: Wisconsin  | Registered: 13 February 2006Reply With Quote
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As far a liberals, antis and whiners only concerned about this:

It is now on Fox news and The Drudge Report.

Tell me again how if it's legal it's ok and everyone can piss off?

Jeff
 
Posts: 2737 | Location: FL | Registered: 18 September 2007Reply With Quote
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http://abcnews.go.com/Weird/wi...-cecil-lion-32732308


Zimbabwe: American Being Sought for Lion Poaching

HARARE, Zimbabwe — Jul 28, 2015, 12:16 PM ET
By FARAI MUTSAKA Associated Press
Associated Press

Zimbabwean police said Tuesday they are searching for an American who allegedly shot a well-known, protected lion with a crossbow in a killing that has outraged conservationists and others.

The American allegedly paid $50,000 to kill the lion named Cecil, Zimbabwean conservationists said. Authorities on Tuesday said two Zimbabwean men will appear in court for allegedly helping with the hunt. The American faces poaching charges, according to police spokeswoman Charity Charamba.

Walter James Palmer was identified on Tuesday by both the Zimbabwe Conservation Task Force and the Safari Operators Association of Zimbabwe as the American hunter, a name that police then confirmed.

"We arrested two people and now we are looking for Palmer in connection with the same case," said Charamba.

Emmanuel Fundira, the president of the Safari Operators Association of Zimbabwe, said at a news conference that Palmer is from Minnesota and his current whereabouts were unknown.

Phone calls to two listed home phone numbers for Palmer rang busy on Tuesday. Phone calls to his dental office in the Minneapolis suburb of Bloomington also went unanswered, and a message couldn't be left because the office mailbox was full.

The front door to the office building was locked when a reporter approached Tuesday morning. A woman who came to the door said Palmer was not in the office and was not seeing patients on Tuesday.

The two arrested Zimbabwean men — a professional hunter and a farm owner — face poaching charges, the Zimbabwe National Parks and Wildlife Authority and the Safari Operators Association said in a joint statement. Killing the lion was illegal because the farm owner did not have a hunting permit, the joint statement said. The lion was skinned and beheaded. The hunters tried to destroy the lion's collar, fitted with a tracking device, but failed, the statement said.

If convicted, the men face up to 15 years in prison.

The lion is believed to have been killed on July 1 in western Zimbabwe's wildlife-rich Hwange region, its carcass discovered days later by trackers, the statement said.

The Zimbabwe Conservation Task Force said in a statement that an American paid the $50,000 for the hunt. During a nighttime hunt, the men tied a dead animal to their car to lure the lion out of a national park, said Johnny Rodrigues, chairman of the Zimbabwe Conservation Task Force. The American is believed to have shot it with a crossbow, injuring the animal. The wounded lion was found 40 hours later, and shot dead with a gun, Rodrigues said in the statement.

"The saddest part of all is that now that Cecil is dead, the next lion in the hierarchy, Jericho will most likely kill all Cecil's cubs," said Rodrigues.

The Zimbabwean hunter accused in the case claimed that Cecil was not specifically targeted, and the group only learning after the fact that they had killed a well-known lion, according to the Safari Operators Association.

Cecil, recognizable by his black mane, was being studied by an Oxford University research program, the conservation group said.

Tourists regularly spotted his characteristic mane in the park over the last 13 years, said Lion Aid, also a conservation group.

———

Associated Press reporters Amy Forliti in Bloomington, Minnesota, and Brian Bakst in St. Paul, Minnesota, contributed to this report.


Kathi

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Posts: 8062 | Location: Chicago | Registered: 23 July 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
As far a liberals, antis and whiners only concerned about this:

It is now on Fox news and The Drudge Report.

Tell me again how if it's legal it's ok and everyone can piss off?

Jeff


I can't because you're being obtuse
 
Posts: 11636 | Location: Wisconsin  | Registered: 13 February 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Heym 450/400:
quote:
Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
As far a liberals, antis and whiners only concerned about this:

It is now on Fox news and The Drudge Report.

Tell me again how if it's legal it's ok and everyone can piss off?

Jeff


I can't because you're being obtuse


Maybe you could use small words.

Jeff
 
Posts: 2737 | Location: FL | Registered: 18 September 2007Reply With Quote
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I know a bit of about the bear case Palmer paid big dollars to get a big bear.

The guides decide that they would do what ever it took to get him a big bear.

They did and were caught.
 
Posts: 15893 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Heym 450/400:
Mr Jines


I answered that question on the other thread. If your scenario went as you lay it out then it is no good in my eyes


So help me out, how is the situation involving "Cecil" different from the situation involving "Duke"?


Mike
 
Posts: 17403 | Registered: 03 January 2006Reply With Quote
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If it was an legal hunt and the animal came out of the park he is fair game.

They don't live for ever.
 
Posts: 15893 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by p dog shooter:
I know a bit of about the bear case Palmer paid big dollars to get a big bear.

The guides decide that they would do what ever it took to get him a big bear.

They did and were caught.


I wonder if this guy wouldn't have any issues at this point if there were not record books?


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Posts: 6885 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 05 February 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by p dog shooter:
If it was an legal hunt and the animal came out of the park he is fair game.

They don't live for ever.


Even if the PR surrounding the whacking of a pet lion ends all lion hunting?
 
Posts: 2737 | Location: FL | Registered: 18 September 2007Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by p dog shooter:

They don't live for ever.



With that attitude, neither will sport hunting.


Mike
 
Posts: 17403 | Registered: 03 January 2006Reply With Quote
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Formal Parks statement on Cecil the Lion
JOINT PRESS STATEMENT BY ZIMBABWE PARKS AND WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT AUTHORITY AND SAFARI OPERATORS ASSOCIATION OF ZIMBABWE ON THE ILLEGAL HUNT OF A COLLARED LION AT ANTOINETTE FARM, HWANGE DISTRICT ON 1 JULY 2015 IN GWAYI CONSERVANCY BY BUSHMAN SAFARIS PROFESSIONAL HUNTER, THEO BRONKHORST.
Theo Bronchorst, a professional hunter with Bushman Safaris is facing criminal charges (VIC FALLS Police CR 27/07/2015) for allegedly killing a collared lion on Antoinette farm in Gwayi Conservancy, Hwange district on 1 July 2015. The lion named ‘Cecil’ was well known and regularly sighted by tourists in the Main camp area of Hwange National Park. It is alleged that the hunter connived with the Antoinette land owner, Mr. Honest Trymore Ndlovu to kill the lion. Ongoing investigations to date, suggest that the killing of the lion was illegal since the land owner was not allocated a lion on his hunting quota for 2015. Therefore, all persons implicated in this case are due to appear in court facing poaching charges.
Zimbabwe Parks and Wildlife Management as the Regulatory Authority and custodian of all wild animals in Zimbabwe issues hunting permits and hunting quota for all hunting areas in Zimbabwe so that only animals on quota are to be hunted. In this case, both the professional hunter and land owner had no permit or quota to justify the offtake of the lion and therefore are liable for the illegal hunt.
Both professional hunter Theo Bronkhorst’s licence number 553 who was involved in the hunt and the owner of Antoinette farm, Mr. Honest Trymore Ndlovu are being jointly charged for illegally hunting the lion. The two are due to appear in court on Wednesday, 29 July 2015. Efforts are being made to interview the other professional hunter, Zane Bronkhorst, licence number 558, who was also involved in the illegal hunt.
The Professional Hunter Theo Bronkhosrt’s Licence has been suspended with immediate effect. The lion trophy has also been confiscated. The relevant stakeholders have been informed and are being updated about this matter.
…………………………………………….. ……………………………………………….
E. CHIDZIYA E.A. FUNDIRA
DIRECTOR GENERAL PRESIDENT
ZPWMA SOAZ


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Posts: 1996 | Location: Abilene,TX USA | Registered: 27 February 2002Reply With Quote
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Congratulations Mr. Palmer, you made the front page of www.msn.com. On behalf of hunters everywhere, thank you for being such a positive reflection on sport hunting. faint


Mike
 
Posts: 17403 | Registered: 03 January 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Heym 450/400:
Minnesota is filled with pro hunting people. Once it blows over he might be just fine. It's not like he lives in New York with a bunch of whining liberals. Unless of course his practice is actually in the city of Minneapolis then he's doomed


The same Minnesota (Blue State BTW) that brought us Jesse Ventura and Al Franken.....that Minnesota?
 
Posts: 2276 | Location: West Texas | Registered: 07 December 2011Reply With Quote
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Rueters

HARARE Wildlife officials on Tuesday accused an American tourist of killing Cecil, one of the oldest and most famous lions in Zimbabwe, without a permit after paying $50,000 to two people who lured the beast to its death.

The lion was lured out of Hwange National Park using a bait and was shot by the Walter James Palmer with a crossbow, Johnny Rodrigues, chairman of Zimbabwe Conservation Task Force (ZCTF), told reporters.

Rodrigues said Palmer paid Zimbabwean hunter Theo Bronkhorst and Honest Ndlovu, a private game park owner, to lure the 13-year-old Cecil. Bronkhorst and Ndlovu will face poaching charges on Wednesday in Hwange for the killing of the lion on July 1, Rodriguez said.

Palmer -- who U.S. media reports said was a dentist from Minnesota -- was not immediately available for comment.

A spokesman for Palmer told the Guardian that the hunter believed he may have shot the lion.

"As far as I understand, Walter believes that he might have shot that lion that has been referred to as Cecil," a spokesman for Palmer said.

"What he’ll tell you is that he had the proper legal permits and he had hired several professional guides, so he's not denying that he may be the person who shot this lion. He is a big-game hunter; he hunts the world over."

Palmer's whereabouts were not immediately known but Cecil's head and skin were recovered and would be used as evidence in court, Rodrigues said.

Cecil was a popular attraction at the Hwange National Park and had featured in many photographic shoots.

Lions are not protected species in Zimbabwe. If convicted, the two men would be required to pay $20,000 in compensation but the court may impose an additional jail term.

Investigations show the killing of Cecil was illegal because the land owner was not allocated a lion on his hunting quota for 2015, Zimbabwe Parks and Wildlife Management Authority (ZPWMA) and ZCTF said in a statement.

"Therefore, all persons implicated in this case are due to appear in court facing poaching charges," the conservationists said.

Zimbabwe issues annual permits allowing foreign hunters to kill wildlife like the elephant, buffalo and lion, saying this allows it to raise money for conservation.


(Reporting by MacDonald Dzirutwe, Editing by James Macharia and Angus MacSwan)


MopaneMike
 
Posts: 1078 | Location: Southern California USA | Registered: 21 December 2006Reply With Quote
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVSMK_oQnM4



Press conference in Zimbabwe regarding the lion killing.


Kathi

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Posts: 8062 | Location: Chicago | Registered: 23 July 2003Reply With Quote
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/...ion-africa/30785881/


Minnesota dentist 'deeply' regrets 'taking' Cecil the lion

USA TODAY NETWORK Mary Bowerman, USA TODAY Network 2:29 p.m. EDT July 28, 2015
AFP 542939142 I ANI ZWE -



Zimbabwean authorities say that a Minnesota dentist is responsible for slaying one of the country's most beloved lions.

On Tuesday, The Zimbabwe Conservation Task Force said in a statement that Walter James Palmer of Eden Prairie, Minn., paid at least $50,000 to track and kill a lion in Zimbabwe.

The conservation group and Zimbabwean authorities say that Palmer ultimately killed, Cecil, a protected lion and one of the most famous animals at the Hwange National Park. Cecil was fitted with a GPS collar and tracked by the Oxford University research program, according to the conservation task force.

On Tuesday, Palmer said in a statement, "I relied on the expertise of my local professional guides to ensure a legal hunt," CBS reported.

"I had no idea that the lion I took was a known, local favorite, was collared and part of a study until the end of the hunt," he said, according to CBS. "I deeply regret that my pursuit of an activity I love and practice responsibly and legally resulted in the taking of this lion."

According to police spokeswoman Charity Charamba, Palmer will face charges of poaching, the AP reported. Emmanuel Fundira, the president of the Safari Operators Association of Zimbabwe, said that Palmer's whereabouts are currently unknown.

The conservation group alleges that Palmer worked with guides to lure Cecil from the national park to an unprotected area by strapping a "dead animal to their vehicle."

Once the animal was off the national park land, Palmer allegedly shot Cecil with a bow and arrow, but did not kill him. The group then tracked the wounded animal for 40 hours, ultimately shooting and killing him, according to the conservation group. Cecil was skinned and ultimately beheaded, the group said.

The two men facing charges include a landowner and a professional hunter, according to a joint statement from the Zimbabwe Parks and Wildlife Management Authority and Safari Operators Association.

Neither of the men had a hunting permit, making the kill illegal, according to the statement.

Palmer, 55, told the Minnesota Star Tribune earlier Tuesday that "some things are being misreported," in regard to the lion's death.

Conservation groups and people around the world are outraged by Cecil's death. Since news broke of the killing, the Yelp page for Palmer's dental facility in Bloomington has been overrun with negative comments. The dentistry currently has one star on Yelp.

One user said, "If you visit this dentist for services, you are funding his sprees of killing innocent, magnificent African animals that should be protected." Another commented, A vile and disgusting human. He should be banned from practicing. Despicable. I blame your parents for raising someone who thinks it's ok to kill earthly creatures. Wouldn't be clever to see how you would face Cecil without your tricks and tools?"


Kathi

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Posts: 8062 | Location: Chicago | Registered: 23 July 2003Reply With Quote
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The story is now one of the leads on Yahoo's Internet home page.


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Posts: 1375 | Location: Native Texan Now In Jacksonville, Florida, USA | Registered: 10 July 2000Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by JGRaider:
quote:
Originally posted by Heym 450/400:
Minnesota is filled with pro hunting people. Once it blows over he might be just fine. It's not like he lives in New York with a bunch of whining liberals. Unless of course his practice is actually in the city of Minneapolis then he's doomed


The same Minnesota (Blue State BTW) that brought us Jesse Ventura and Al Franken.....that Minnesota?


Ya... That state. The one that sells more hunting licenses and has more resident hunters than even the grand ole state of Texas.
 
Posts: 11636 | Location: Wisconsin  | Registered: 13 February 2006Reply With Quote
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if nothing else, this points out just how much we rely on the people we contract with.
 
Posts: 10370 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: 26 January 2006Reply With Quote
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Just curious where one finds the social register of animals prior to a hunt.
 
Posts: 316 | Location: USA | Registered: 08 August 2011Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by larryshores:
if nothing else, this points out just how much we rely on the people we contract with.


Can't be the hunting company or PHs fault. The only possible explanation is that he intentionally went to Zim to hunt down Cecil on a park boundary and he was being unethical and selfish. The Internet jury has spoken. Case closed
 
Posts: 11636 | Location: Wisconsin  | Registered: 13 February 2006Reply With Quote
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