quote:

Originally posted by Tim Vining:
Along with paying the hunting deposit up front and the balance prior to the hunt. Setting up an escrow account with licensed escrow agent for trophy fees may be a good idea. Trophy fees are paid to the escrow agent. A certified document detailing which animals were taken by the client, provides sufficient evidence to release trophy fee payments.

Hunting is already complicated enough, now we have to add an agent to operate an escrow account??

No thank you.

We should stop dealing with crooks, whether they are clients or professionals.

But, as we have seen here, some people openly support crooks in the hunting businesses!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Vining:
Along with paying the hunting deposit up front and the balance prior to the hunt. Setting up an escrow account with licensed escrow agent for trophy fees may be a good idea. Trophy fees are paid to the escrow agent. A certified document detailing which animals were taken by the client, provides sufficient evidence to release trophy fee payments.

Hunting is already complicated enough, now we have to add an agent to operate an escrow account??

No thank you.

We should stop dealing with crooks, whether they are clients or professionals.

But, as we have seen here, some people openly support crooks in the hunting businesses!

That may be true Saeed, but it is a better solution than letting a booking agent keep the money. In fact, if you think about it, your entire deposit would be safer if held in escrow; why should the operator get paid 60 days prior? What other business operates that way (besides our two favorites, lawyers and airlines)? (Truthfully, I don't mind sending funds ahead of time the operator/PH lets me wire TFs after the hunt is over - fair is fair.) An escrow agent could hold the entire set of funds, to include the TFs and release the money as the hunt unfolds.

I notice people use the term "escrow" loosely to define the act of holding money for someone else. A true escrow account is a trust account administered by a third party with no financial interest in the outcome (does not describe a booking agent).


I am not an attorney but it is my understanding that since true escrow accounts are trusts, they are not frozen should the escrow company go BK, but perhaps others here know for sure.

quote:

Originally posted by INTREPID SAFARIS:
FULVIO...Nothing you are 100% correct my friend...but one thing I believe in what comes around goes around...

Very true.
But what comes around will come around more quickly if we knew the name(s) of the PH and the scum hunter.
Cal
Cal

If I were involved, I would have your US based PH contact a lawyer, have the lawyer write a DEMAND letter and have the client served. With a 7 day deadline or a lawsuit would ensue.

I started my own company in 2004 never ever had a hunting Contrack don't know what one looks like, all business done on a hand shake and what ever is on the pricelist no more no less. Hardest thing for me ever is to ask payment upfront and never had any issues. However times are changing and that is to bad... there are plenty of crooked outfitters and I can understand that clients don't want all that money upfront but I have learned a hard lesson.

With today's communications, one should do a little bit of research if he is not sure who to hunt with.

Anyone with a question mark should be avoided.

And anyone pulling a fast one should be exposed.

Whether they are not paying, or being paid and run away, or working illegally, or advertising illegal hunts.

Get the crooked bastards out in the open so others can avoid them.

The only surefire solution is for the hunter to put his cash on the barrelhead before departure.

I have actually done that.

Doing that involved making the necessary declaration to the US government upon departure that I was carrying (far) in excess of $10K in cash in my possession.

Doing that also involved, shall we say, a heightened degree of concern for my security, while traversing and staying in, shall we say, unsecure locations, with such bulky and significant sums in cash on my person.

I will never do that again.

It’s nuts.

But that is the only surefire way.

Making payment in remote locations is much easier now that telephone banking & sat phones & laptops & online banking are fairly common in hunting camps.

It has been a few years since I hunted Africa (2001 & 2004), but both times I just wrote a check at the end of the safari to cover my trophy fees and any outstanding costs (brought cash for tips, etc.). Didn't seem like it was ever a problem.


In hindsight, both times I also brought back a sealed envelope (given to me by my PH, Ian Gibson) to mail to the US based booking agent when I got back to the US. I think I remember the envelope being full of client checks, including mine, that went to the US based agent. This was when times were starting to get tough in Zim, so I'm sure they didn't want to keep cash/US dollars in the country. I just don't remember it being very complicated

Shumba,

I'm sure you are a stand up guy but for a safari operator to take a personal check from an overseas client he'd have to have a screw loose IMO.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Shumba,

I'm sure you are a stand up guy but for a safari operator to take a personal check from an overseas client he'd have to have a screw loose IMO.

Mark

While I would never even consider not living up to my obligations or not paying what I owe in a timely manner, I also had a strong feeling at the time that if you didn't pay up at Big 5 Safaris, Gibbo would be sure to track you down during his winter visits to the States or that you could experience great bodily harm at the hand of Big 5 Safari's ownership (controlled by Billy Rautenbach at the time??). Either way, I thought it best to not write checks that couldn't clear

It's really sad when this happens. I really feel for the outfitters and vice versa when it happens to clients.

I remember a story told to me by my dad about a certain trophy hunter who was finishing off a safari and was in the same camp as him.

Anyway the story went like this,

The American hunter had shot what was then a new world record blesbok. At the end of the safari he paid about 20% less than the agreed price and told the outfitter basically take it or leave it.

The outfitter accepted the payment. However, when he sent the trophy back to the states, he filed off about 4 inches off the horn and enclosed a little note saying he was giving a discount on the trophy!

Shumba,

You were smuggling money.

Ski+3

Probably not a great idea to name the person you're doing it for either.

If the U.S. based PH has not made something positive happen within 14 days, shame on him.

It goes without saying - shame on the scumbag "hunter".

This is nothing short of criminal theft.

On some trips i have used my mobile banking and sent balances right in front of the PHs face. My bank allows a pdf to be emailed to the recipient showing amount, date and time sent.

Or if you want pay by credit card www.transferwise.com is an excellent thing as the recipient gets an email saying you are due to receive XXXX amount and one you've paid you cant get it refunded.

I know the names are not released, but does the hunter and PH know of this thread? They should view it to see the potential damage should their names be known someday.
Cal