Here is the 7.5# bare-naked Elvira dressed for the range, in her bikini and spectacles (buttpad, sling, and scope). She weighs 9.25# in beach attire, and is a joy in recoil.



I am amazed at how gentle the recoil is with near .416 Rigby ballistics from this petite firearm. Faster than I wanted to go for my first outing with this cartridge, but all good!!!

AcculoadIII predicted best performance with RL-15, 27" barrel:

Start: 62.8 grains ... 100% net case capacity used ... 40,525 psi ... 2115 fps

Max: 66.1 grains ... 105% net case capacity used ... 44,200 psi ... 2170 fps

I started with 62 grains of RL-15, and had to quit at 65 grains due to the outrageous velocity and reasonable accuracy achieved.

There were no signs of pressure.
Admittedly these are just fireforming some hourglass-shaped virgin brass out to straightsided, so second time around, velocities might be lower and accuracy better:

Fouling shots after bore-sighting down the barrel by eyeball, 62-grains of RL-15 and 410-grain LBT LFN gas-checked cast boolit made of Rippalloy with LBT Blue Lube, GM215M primer, Hornady brass, Hornady .416-caliber gas check made do, 3.725" COL:



Then a simultaneous windage and elevation adjustment was made on the Leupold 1.5-5x and the rest of the shots were made with no further fiddling ... and so on for 63, 64, and 65 grains of RL-15. Targets are only 50 yards, as chronographing during fireforming was the goal. Ultimate accuracy later:




Velocity and uniformity was great for these 3-shot strings, and you can see Elvira was starting to to put 2 of the three bullets into one hole and the fastest load above was most accurate.


Here is what the loads, bullets, and brass look like, before and after fireforming. I will be pulling the bullets on the 66, 67, and 68-grain loads and dropping back to try Varget, hopefully to find a slower accuracy load around 2150 fps with the 410-grainers:


Slugging the throat and having Veral Smith of LBT make a mould to fit helped a beginner like me.

Thanks to member Corbin Shell for referring me to this route.

Looking at the bore, there seems to be little fouling. I need to go clean it and see.

Excellent!..you did better with your #1 than I did with mine yesterday...
Back to the drawing board for me...

Low Wall,
I did as you suggested, even tried to melt some LBT Blue Lube into a patch and worked it back and forth in the barrel after thorough cleaning, then wiped it with a clean patch before shooting. That stuff is so thick and sticky that I do not think the Blue-Lubed patch in the barrel did much of anything, other than placebo effect. Made me feel better.

I will save this barrel for cast lead bullets, for now. No copper or brass pollution.

I also have the NEI .396/240gr FN GC to try to slow down to 2050 fps for 400 NFBP3" ballistic replication, similar to 400 Purdey 3-Inch "Light."

I will have to try harder to slow the 410-grainers down to 2150 fps, with about 1.5" 100-yard 3-shot group.

That 62-grain load of RL-15 is doing just over 2210 fps in my 27" barrel.

In a 24" barrel it ought to do about 2150 fps with the .396-cal/410-grain LBTFNGC.

I will reload some 62-grain loads and give it more than a "fouling chance."

I'll also start with 60 grains of Varget and work up to 64 grains of Varget.

It will indeed be tough to beat RL-15. I am just looking to slow Elvira down to 2150 fps with best 410-grain accuracy.

Rip I have been using a softer lube the last few years which smears nicely on a patch...No matter you & Elvira did great!...I have been having excellent luck with H4895 moderate loads (no filler) in my 9.3X62 and .260gr. to 270gr. bullets..You might try that powder some where down the line esp. with your lighter .396/240gr boolit...Just use Hodgdons 60% rule with H4895 and work up for accuracy...
Also no problem shooting jacketed bulets as a lot of cast shooters do that for 200 rounds or more to smooth the barrel...Your groups got better the more you shot and at higher vel. so you must have a smooth barrel to begin with...

What BHN reading do you get on your Rippalloy?...Are you going to do any media testing (Iron Buffalo?) with these cast boolits?....
Fun isn't it!

Low Wall,
H4895 with 240-grainer and 410-grainer:

Lee Liquid Alox may be worth a try too.

BHN is about 15 as cast and dropped in water.
They could be oven heat-treated same as wheel weights, to make them harder than Linotype, eh?

Rippalloy Recipe:
12 pounds Clip-On-Wheel-Weight Ingots
plus
8 ounces of 95%/5% (Tin/Antimony) Solder
plus
8 ounces of Chilled Lead Shot (0.5% As, 2.0% Sb, 97.5% Pb)

Makes 13 lbs. of estimated analysis Rippalloy :

92.13% Lead
4.12% Tin
3.50% Antimony
0.25% Arsenic

Yes, gotta try them on game and Iron Water buffalo.

Maybe a standard Large Rifle primer instead of Magnum???
Will try that too ...

RIP,
My hearty congratulations on your success!
Gina of GSC bullets sent me an email that the order has been shipped. Will soon see what they'll do.

Bravo!!!

This needs to get some write ups in the gun rags... This is something of substance and importance.


A glorious success!!!

I still enjoy reading about the development of this fascinating cartridge. IMO it looks to be some serious competition for the .416 Rigby!

Best of luck to you, RIP. I'll stay tuned.

quote:

Originally posted by prof242:
... Gina of GSC bullets sent me an email that the order has been shipped. Will soon see what they'll do.

Max,
Best news I have heard in many moons.
I hope I am included in customers to have their paid-for orders fulfilled.

Thanks for teaching me to use the Lee bullet sizers. I lubed with a frying pan and applied the gas checks and sized the bullets with two passes through the Lee sizing die: base first to set the gas check in place, then nose first to square the gas check, .416 Hornady GC through a .396 Lee die.

I have the Lyman heated lubrisizer-gas-check-seater but no sizing die for .396". Maybe a custom on the way, with nose punch for the LBT.

I will try the Lee Liquid Alox with my next batch, LR/nonmagnum primer, and Varget and H4895.

One year ago I did not know what a "bullet sizer" was, now I are one.
Thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:

This needs to get some write ups in the gun rags...

Thanks Boomer! Do you think Precision Shooting might be the proper venue for this little piece of history?

Hopefully GSC will get enough bullets to me to include in the write-up.

240-grain NEI Cast FNGC at 2050 fps
310-grain SHark Velopex at ???? fps
325-grain SHarlow Rippers at ???? fps
330-grain S&H FN at ???? fps
340-grain GSC Trio at ???? fps
410-grain LBT Cast LFNGC at 2150 to 2300 fps

Soup to nuts! Squirrels to elephant! Amazingly efficient little cartridge, it cries for a double rifle!

Don't go and forget which pan ya used to cook lead bullets and then go and cook up an omlette in it RIP!! We might have to change your name to Jake...

Glenn,
Thanks, stay tuned.

Macifej,
I took over the wife's old cast iron skillet that she used to beat me over the head with. It is square, same as my head. I got her a set of 3 new ones of various sizes and they are round.
I will not confuse them.

heck... Any mag.
I would love to see it in "Sporting Classics" and "Double Rifle and Single Shot"

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
heck... Any mag.

Publishing something about it would be an appeal for any information about the forgotten .395, as in the 400NFBP3" that got lost in the transition from BP to Nitro Express.

The "40-caliber" or "400" with .395" bullet morphed into various other 400's with the same or bigger case.

Proposed title: "Forty Caliber Appeal"

We have no experts here at AR.com able to shed any light on this???

I read a post here years ago, probably 2001, by someone who had slugged the barrel of his "Martini" and found it to be .395" in the grooves.

Maybe a Peabody-Martini from 1880 is a "missing link" in this story?

Sumbuddy who know please help!!!

Precision Shooting, Rifle, Handloader, any of the three would be appropriate for an article on the .395 caliber.
Now, I want a little sympathy. My .395 Max and my Ruger #1 soon-to-be .400NE are both gone from the house and at different gunsmiths. I am hoping the .395 Max gets back in time for the Big Bore Shoot in June.

How about "The best Nitro Express that never was"? subtitle "All the whomp you need without the fat"

Does anyone have a 9,3x74 double to donate to the project (he gets to keep it obviously)

Max,
Drown your angst in some Pte' Pee.
If we are patient enough, we shall both be riding thoroughbreds soon, instead of jackasses ...

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
How about "The best Nitro Express that never was"? subtitle "All the whomp you need without the fat"

Along the same line:
Title: "The 400 Nitro Express That Purdey Never Made"
Subtitle: "Forty-Caliber Appeal"

I like a combination of some of the potential gun rag titles that I've seen so far: "The Forgotten .400 Nitro--A Revival of the Cartridge that Never Was."

Glenn,
That is catchy.
Does a double oxymoron make a right? I know two Wongs do not make a white ...

Somebody has entered into the Midway USA "Gun Tec Dictionary" (GunWickipedia?) some sloppy info. I wonder who is doing this kind of disinformation???

Go to:

www.midwayusa.com

Click on "Gun Tec" and select cartridge listing and look up
"400 Nitro Express 3""
and
"400 Purdey 3""

Just a little confusion there.

quote:

Does a double oxymoron make a right? I know two Wongs do not make a white ...

Well, I learned in math class that a double negative makes a positive. Or was that English class?


That reminds me...
I wonder who put the moron in oxymoron.
Anyway, it wasn't me this time!

quote:

Somebody has entered into the Midway USA "Gun Tec Dictionary" (GunWickipedia?) some sloppy info. I wonder who is doing this kind of disinformation???

I'll have to check it out. Did the article say that the cartridge was developed by Macifej?

quote:

I'll have to check it out. Did the article say that the cartridge was developed by Macifej?

Nope! Wasn't me - that .395 work is too refined for my tastes.

The quality of the double oxymoron sometimes makes it acceptable. In this particular case, I would gladly accept it in a student's paper, and not just because I'm in the .395 family. It has a definite savoir-faire.

Max,
If we get Elvira and Lily together, with a little "duck tape," we will have a double rifle in "True 400 Nitro Express" before Butch Searcy does.



Yin and Yang.

Down to nuts and bolts:
What load should the ultimate little bad-ass double rifle be regulated for in a Searcy 400/.395 NE?

Lily's Old School: 400 to 410-grain cup&core&castboolits at 2150 fps

Elvira's New School: 330 to 340-grain monometals at 2450 fps

Either of these could be done at 50Kpsi or less.

1:12" TWIST will be "New and Improved" also in this Mighty Mite.

Could it be possible for both to shoot well if the rifle is regulated for one of these loads?

Regulate for the heavy load (400-410-grainers) and hope the 75%-Rule allows a bullet of about 300 to 310 grains to be loaded to useful velocity and accuracy???

Or regulate for 330-340-grainers parallel to infinity at 2450 fps MV, and just go with whatever you get with the 400-410-grainers for close range???

Don't tell me a Searcy won't handle 50Kpsi indefinitely.
The 9.3x74mmR CIP max is right around 50Kpsi and there are lots of DR's digesting those loads. Now where is that Heym at Champlin's, 8#1oz with 25" barrels ...

I better call Champlin's and ask them what the muzzle diameter of this baby is.

If I have it rebored from .366" to .395" grooves, could the weight get down to 7.75 lbs?

Where is that specific gravity of Krupp Stahl ...

I'll bet Macifej could figure that one out!

Assume generic steel SG.
What is the weight of a cylinder of .395" diameter and 25" length
minus the weight of a .366" diameter cylinder of 25" length times two for a rough estimate???

If you take the weight of the existing rifle - rebore from .366 to .395 - the rifle will weight about 1/4 pound less.

I would get the actual barrel drawing and material specification and do some hoop and radial stress calculations and see if there is enough of a safety factor at the breech.

Thanks, Jay.
Surely, if the muzzle diameter of the Heym is greater than or equal to .595" it should be adequate, for such a low pressure round, though .645" would be impeccable. The head diameter of the 400/395NE is the same as the 9.3x74R.

A "True 400 Niro Express" Heym 88B with 25" barrels = 7 pounds 13 ounces avoirdupois = 3.55 Kg

400 NE doubles should sell like hotcakes (In terms of DR sales)

Having 450/400 power in a 9,3x74 platform is way cool. Having handled a 9,3x74 double it would be an awesome power to size/weight ratio.

I might consider locating a rifle with .375" bores and heavier profiles as a donor. But then I always like to do things "Mas Grande". I wouldn't know what to do with a rifle that weighed less than 11 lbs or so.....

The Heym above has a muzzle diameter of 0.548".

0.091" wall thickness in the grooves at the muzzle, for 9.3mm/.366" groove diameter.

I shall look long and hard to find anything that could be re-bored.

Looks like a rebarrel or a custom build from scratch.

Waaaay too thin for me boss! I'd call butch and ask him to make you something fresh.

quote:

0.091" wall thickness in the grooves at the muzzle, for 9.3mm/.366" groove diameter.

Well, if it's good enough for Weatherby...

No, never mind.

RIP,
I've always wanted a double rifle and now you've shown me how to get one. Just weld or epoxy two Ruger #1s together. Thank you.

Seriously, this is something I may have to do. No wife to say no, and the cat can't add or subtract, so all is well. Guess a new SUV is going out the window in my planning.

As for regulating, I'd do it for the 340gr bullets and let the cast ones just have to deal with it. Loading can sometimes offset a little of the possible inaccuracies. The 340gr is available in a solid as well as in an HP and will handle anything Africa has to offer (well, close). We have our #1s for cast bullet accuracy needs. Seems to be an easy choice to me.

That reminds me.
What will be, or what is, the bolt-rifle version of this cartridge called? If there isn't one, might the parent case for a .395" bolt action be the .404 Jeff?

416 Rigby parent case = 395 Tatanka

375 Ruger parent case = 395 Max

Dont forget the 06 version...

How many versions are in service Boomer?

well the 06 one is not in the works yet but the improved 395-375 h+h is being done by gerard I think.