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Bullet success on elk
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About a year ago, I posted my experience with Nosler Partitions and elk (search for "Re: Elk, Bullet failures and Nosler Partitions".) At the time I was very dissatisfied with the performance of 225 gr. Nosler Partitions I used in my 35 Whelen for elk.
I ordered a box a Barnes 225 gr. Triple Shocks which are by the way INCREDIBLY accurate. I settled on a load that pushed the bullet 2660 fps and easily grouped under 3/4" @ 100 yds. My father and I once again drew bull tags in New Mexico. Having killed a nice 6x6 myself last year, I vowed to myself to do everything I could to put my 71 year old father on a bull as he has never even had a shot at one despite quite a few years of trying.
The evening of opening day, a beautiful 6x6 walked out below us and Dad hit him first shot too far back with his 338-06. He had hell after that and missed the next 4 shots (At the time we didn't know he'd hit the bull with his first shot) I handed him my Whelen and he launched a 225 gr. TSX at the bull as he walked straight away at somewhere around 300 yds. Bless me if he didn't hit the ol' boy square in the tail! This put him down for good. Upon skinning we found the .35 cal. TSX had penetrated from the tail all the way to the middle of the right shoulder and stopped under the skin!! As can be seen in the picture, the bullet looks like it ought to be in magazine ad.
The only thing better looking than the bullet is the smile on Dads face!!
35 Whelen




"Only accurate rifles are interesting"- Col. Townsend Whelen
 
Posts: 143 | Location: Texas | Registered: 08 November 2004Reply With Quote
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Perfect!


"There are worse memorials to a life well-lived than a pair of elephant tusks." Robert Ruark
 
Posts: 4781 | Location: Story, WY / San Carlos, Sonora, MX | Registered: 29 May 2002Reply With Quote
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When it comes to holding together and accuracy, I think the TSX outshines all of it's competitors. Did that bullet smash through vertibrates all the way up or did it travel under the skin some?

Congrats to you and your dad on a great bull! I remember my dad helping me get my first deer, duck, etc. Ain't it a good feeling to be able to do the same for him now?

Pete
 
Posts: 812 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: 26 July 2004Reply With Quote
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Congratulations to you and most of all your dad! Great pics, especially the one of your dad and the Elk, what a perfect picture. My dad went blind before he could see the pics of my elk and passed away Sept 27. I hope you and your dad have many more good times together like this one.
I use the TSX 180 in my 300RUM and have much the same accuracy as you.
 
Posts: 231 | Location: Arlington, WA | Registered: 26 June 2005Reply With Quote
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You are so lucky to have brought so much happieness to your dad, some of us are too late. Way to go and best wishes!!!



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Posts: 903 | Location: Texas | Registered: 14 July 2002Reply With Quote
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nice elk


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Posts: 3504 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: 07 July 2005Reply With Quote
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Thank you all so much. My father and I have been elk hunting together off and on for 18 years and in that time he's never had a shot at an elk. I've prayed and prayed that he'd get a shot as at his age his vision's not too good and though he's really a tough old goat, it's a little hard for a 71 year old man to tromp around the mountains at 10,000+ feet elevation.
At any rate I'm more proud of that bull than if it were my own. We have had two really memorable elk hunts over the last two years and have had to learn the hard way how to skin, quarter and pack one of those big boys out of the mountains on our own.

quote:
Did that bullet smash through vertibrates all the way up or did it travel under the skin some?

The shot was somewhat downhill, so it broke some bones at the hip, traveled through the vitals and then came to rest under the skin outside the right shoulder having missed the shoulder bone.
Regards,
35W


"Only accurate rifles are interesting"- Col. Townsend Whelen
 
Posts: 143 | Location: Texas | Registered: 08 November 2004Reply With Quote
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That is a fabulous picture of your dad. I hope you get it blown up and framed. Having lost my own father several years back I can tell you how meaningful pictures like that are for the memories they stir. Congratulations.

Jeff


In the land of the blind, the man with one eye is king.
 
Posts: 784 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 18 December 2000Reply With Quote
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Priceless...
 
Posts: 3523 | Registered: 27 June 2000Reply With Quote
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A good bullet, a darn good story and what a super memory. You are indeed quite lucky!

Awesome pic by the way!

Mark D
 
Posts: 1089 | Location: Bozeman, Mt | Registered: 05 August 2005Reply With Quote
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35 Whelen: What an outstanding photo of your father and his trophy!
Good for you guys!
How did your Nosler Partition fail you last year? You mention you got the Elk?
I had occassion last year to help a friend of mine on an limited draw Elk Hunt in Montana! He was using a Remington 700 Classic in 35 Whelen, with, as I recall 225 grain Nosler Partitions! He killed a large mature Bull Elk on that trip!
AND he had just come from Idaho where he had killed a large Bull Moose with the same Rifle/bullet combination!
Do you have the particulars to relay on the poor performance of last years 35 Whelen propelled Nosler Partitions on your Elk?
I tried the search you suggested and could not find your entry (posting).
Again, congratulations to you both and thanks for posting the fantastic photo!
By the way I harvested a mature 6x6 Bull Elk last year with one shot using Nosler Partitions (7mm Remington Magnum with 160 grainers).
Most of the skookum Elk Hunters here abouts go out of their way to use Nosler Partitions in various calibers as their "Elk Medicine"!
I am happy your TSX bullet saved the day there!
Long live the 35 Whelen!
Long live Nosler!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
 
Posts: 3067 | Location: South West Montana | Registered: 20 August 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
How did your Nosler Partition fail you last year? You mention you got the Elk?

Varmint Guy,
Here's quote from my post last year. It's a little long, so bear with me.:
quote:
I went on an elk hunt in New Mexico last month. I shoot a 35 Whelen that I built several years ago specifically for elk hunting. I have for the last few years loaded the 225 gr. Partition over 58 grs. of Varget attaining a velocity of around 2700 fps according to my chronograph. I have killed a couple of whitetails with it simply because I wanted to get some use out of it, but until this year had never gotten a shot at an elk.
The evening of the first days hunt I got a shot at a nice mature bull at around 75 yds. He had just stepped out of the timber and was grazing. He lifted his head and craned it around to the left to look behind himself. When he did, I placed the crosshairs at the juncture of his neck and shoulder. My thought was I'll either, a) spine him, b) the bullet will angle back through his left lung and exit, or c) penetrate through and break his left (far) shoulder. I fired and the bull bolted out into the meadow and ran a little semi-circle back into the timber. I took a running shot at him, but shot over him. I wasn't worried because I was certain I had hit him. I decided to wait a bit before going after him. While I was gathering my things, I heard him cough, and then heard limbs break. I figured he'd fallen. I went to where he was when I shot (he had been standing in snow) and found a few drops of blood that, judging from the location of the blood relative to the tracks, had come from the entrance wound. I saw no evidence of the bullet exiting (blood, hair, etc. in the snow). Also, when the bull ran he showed no evidence of a broken shoulder. I easily tracked him into the timber and not far in the timber I found where he'd stopped and bled some, but no bull. The pattern of the drops of blood looked as though they had dripped from his mouth/nose. My father and I looked until past dark with no luck. We returned the next day and followed the blood trail until it played out then combed the timber for another 2-3 hours with still no luck. We did find more blood, and it too appeared to have dripped from the mouth and/or nose.
I was very disappointed that the bullet hadn't exited or at least broken his off shoulder. I feel that had the bullet exited the bull, he would have bled more and perhaps died more quickly. I'm still sick about losing that bull.
Three days later I got a shot at another bull. I jumped him out of a large bowl/meadow area, at around 10,500' elevation, took a running shot at him at a little under 100 yards as he quartered away from me. I saw him flinch at the shot, yet he ran on up the side of the bowl and stopped behind a little string of timber. Where he stopped, a very large aspen tree mostly obscured him. I sat down and got all wrapped up in my sling and waited for him to step out. He was now at what I'd guess was 200-225 yards. When he stepped out, I shot him again behind the left shoulder at which time he went down.
Sounds good, huh? It was late, so I snapped a few pictures, gutted him, and left. Next day we came back to skin, quarter and pack him out. Contrary horses, snow, equipment, etc. threw us late getting back to him so I wasn't able to thoroughly search for the bullets. Both had entered behind his left shoulder, within a couple of inches of each other, and angled forward and stopped ahead of the right shoulder. Neither exited which, again, disappointed me.
I have used Partitions quite a bit, but always in smaller calibers and on whitetail. In my experience, they completely penetrate deer from any angle 90% of the time. I personally am all in favor of TWO outlets for bleeding.
RickF the picture of the North Fork bullet is inspiring, however Dave Scovill, editor of Rifle and Handloader magazine wrote an excellent article on premium bullets. He pointed out that bullets which expand and make a nice, large mushroom do not penetrate as well as those such as the Barnes �X� or the Winchester Fail Safe. He pointed out that when the bullet expands in this manner, the sectional density is effectively lowered hence reducing penetration.
I am currently in search of a bullet that will penetrate more deeply without the sacrifice of lower B.C. and velocity (hence, a more arched trajectory). I bought a box Barnes Triple Shock "X" 225 gr. And thus far am pleased. The first four, four shot groups all stayed within 1", with 3 shot clusters in each group going under 1". This, all without load development. I used Re15 and velocities started out at around 2550. By working up 1 grain at a time, I was able to achieve 2722 fps with the last load. I have high hopes for this bullets. Now, let's just hope I draw an elk tag next year!!
-35 Whelen


After witnessing the phenomenal pentration of the 225 gr. TSX, I believe the desired perfomance will be entirely possible!! Thank you for your kind words.
35W


"Only accurate rifles are interesting"- Col. Townsend Whelen
 
Posts: 143 | Location: Texas | Registered: 08 November 2004Reply With Quote
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For what it is worth I witnessed the taking of 5 bulls last week while hunting in Utah. The bullet/caliber combinations were:

.30-378 Weatherby 180 gr. Barnes X
.300 Winchester 180 gr. Barnes TSX
.300 Weatherby 180 Hornady Interlock
.280 AI 160 Nosler Partition
.338 Winchester 225 gr North Fork

The only exit was the North Fork from the .338. All 5 bulls went down within 20 yards. The only bullet performance that bothered me was the Hornady. It appeared to completetly come apart on the off shoulder. The bull dropped on the spot so it worked but it made me nervous on how it would have behaved had it hit bone prior to hitting the vitals.

Jeff


In the land of the blind, the man with one eye is king.
 
Posts: 784 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 18 December 2000Reply With Quote
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35 Whelen,

Congrats. That really classy picture says it all.

I've been using 250 Gr. Nosler Partitions @ 2,525 fps in my .35 Whelen ( 22" barrel) for several years now. They stay in moose when they enter lentghwise but I've yet to recover one from 3 elk (4 shots). Still that
TSX picture you posted is impressive. I'm not ready to give up regular for no lead yet though.
Wink
Rich Elliott


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Posts: 2013 | Location: Crossville, IL 62827 USA | Registered: 07 February 2001Reply With Quote
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35 Whelen, you have got to love that bullet/caliber combination. Congratulations

BigBullet


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Posts: 1224 | Location: Lorraine, NY New York's little piece of frozen tundra | Registered: 05 July 2003Reply With Quote
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I have used Noslers on everything from Pronghorn to Cape Buffalo, Lion...

They have consistently out penitrated every other bullet I have used...guess I will stick with them, but I have not used them in the .358 caliber...I love the 400 gr. .416 Nosler and the 200 gr. in my 300 H&H...

I had a 165 gr. TSX fail miserably on me last year on a Mule Deer with my .308...I suppose any bullet made by man can fail from time to time.


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Posts: 42190 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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great story, thanks for sharing it with us...the joy is multiplied thumb wish that was my dad.


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Posts: 27612 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
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Hey 35, where were you hunting? I just got back from East Moreno Ranch up that way, and the scenery sure looks familiar. Looks just like Wheeler peak in the background. Congrats on your father's beautiful elk! Good job.
That was my third hunt there and my thrid straight 6x6 (all fair chase). There is nothing like NM for elk in my opinion. Can't understand about your Partition failure though, as you are about the first person I have heard say "failure" and "partition" in the same sentance. I love 'em. My first bull fell to a 300 mag with a 180 grain Trophy bonded bearclaw (old style)...fell like a ton of bricks. Likewise with my second bull from a 180 grain partition. My third bull, taken two weeks ago, fell to a 200 grain Accubond. Only 52% weight retention on that bullet though, but he was dead right there like the others.

You take it easy and again, congrats on the beautiful bull.
 
Posts: 373 | Location: Leesburg, GA | Registered: 22 October 2005Reply With Quote
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Did you weigh the bullet after the shot? I am curious about the weight retension.
 
Posts: 700 | Registered: 18 May 2002Reply With Quote
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that is a nice story. i am glad your dad got one. he deserved it. you still have plenty of time to get another one for yourself. however, i doubt after that hunt if a larger animal for yourself will mean as much to you. father son hunts are a great thing. congratulations.

i use the n.p. and have killed many animals with it and it had=s never let me down. i have seen several other bullets that i can not say the same about.

i will stick with the n.p. till the day comes when it does fail me and then i will look around. almost all animals i have shot have been one shot kills.

lots of training/practice + proper shot placement + plenty of gun + good bullet = lots of dead critters...


Cold Zero
 
Posts: 1318 | Registered: 04 October 2003Reply With Quote
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Yeah, my 200 grain Accubond weighed 106.9 grains. It was a 167 yard broadside shot. Went through the near side shoulder and lodged under the hide of the far side shoulder. When hit, he jumped three feet in the air, spun around and trotted/fell about 20 yards from the point of impact. Yep, I know...he's dead, double shoulder shot, what do you expect, etc....but the performance was not what I got from the TBB nor the partition. I also concede that my experience on bull elk now totals three, and that in no way makes me an authority. But, my next hunt will either be with partitions or some old style TBB's if I can find 'em. Still curious as to where the gentleman got that fine bull...I am so proud for him! FWIW: Just listening casually to all the hunters out there, on the ranch, and at the gun shops, partitions are very well respected out there, as they should be.

Good luck this fall everyone. Will try to attach a pic of my accubond...hope it works.
 
Posts: 373 | Location: Leesburg, GA | Registered: 22 October 2005Reply With Quote
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Dang, the picture posting thing worked...now that I know how to do it, here is my bull.
 
Posts: 373 | Location: Leesburg, GA | Registered: 22 October 2005Reply With Quote
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Beautiful bull, hank. My congrats. Yes we hunt in the vicnity of the Moreno in the National Forest. I attached a pic of my bull from last year below. We ride mules in 4 or so miles then pack the meat out on horses. I'm the "guide" <grin>. With regards to the "failure" statement in my original post from last year: I was in error. What I should have said was that the Partition "failed to meet my expectations". I'd want as much penetration as possible and given the distance and angle from which I shot my bull last year, I felt the bullet should have exited the far side.
The 225 gr. TSX however performed EXACTLY as I desired. From the tail through the shoulder. Old Fart, I didn't weigh the bullet. My Dad has it and carries it with him 24/7. I wouldn't hesitate to say it retained 98+% of its weight though.
"cold zero" thank you for the kind words. I don't blame you for sticking with Partitions. I've used them for years with great success on deer and hogs and would still be using them on elk were it not for last years incident. I've shot end-to-end through whitetails with them in my 280.
Regards,
35W


"Only accurate rifles are interesting"- Col. Townsend Whelen
 
Posts: 143 | Location: Texas | Registered: 08 November 2004Reply With Quote
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Beautiful Bull 35. I hate it, but the owners of the East Moreno Ranch are attempting to sell the ranch, and this will probably be our last hunt there, assuming someone buys it and busts it up into pretty little 25 acre mini-ranches. They are asking 35 million bucks for it. All the regular hunters, myself included, are crying a thousand tears about this. Hope they find a way to keep it. We will probably put in for one of the Valle Vidal hunts in the future (it borders the Ranch). Don't have enough $ to hunt the Vermejo Park Ranch, but probably would not want to hunt there anyway. Had a friend that hunted there and from what he said, the ranch does not hunt in the manner that I would consider fair chase. Will find another place near there to hunt somehow.
 
Posts: 373 | Location: Leesburg, GA | Registered: 22 October 2005Reply With Quote
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Congrats on being able to hunt with your dad and get some good pictures.

HankH.....many years ago my family used to own Moreno Ranch. My grandfather sold it for next to nothing, I think in the 20's or 30's. Still irks me.


Retired USN.....finally

Molon Labe.
 
Posts: 27 | Location: North to Alaska, maybe Nevada. | Registered: 15 July 2004Reply With Quote
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The current family that owns the Moreno ranch bought it about 53 years ago. I remember getting a "50 year anniversary" hat pin from them about 3 years ago, but that is about the extent of my math. Lovely place....I got my first bull on Black mountain there, second bull on Baldy and the last one three weeks ago in Ditch park. Let me know if you want a nice pic or two for keepsakes, as I have some real nice ones that I would be happy to email you. They are now wanting to sell....I cannot fathom why someone would sell even one square inch of a place like that. We lost a 550 acre family farm many years ago through the eminent domain process and had a nuclear power facility built on top of it and about a hundred other farms....like you, it still irks me to this day. But it is not the same as voluntarily electing to sell your place....Gosh, how could they???? Everyone that hunts out there is just shaking their head in disbelief. I would chop my left leg off before they could force me to sell one grain of soil off that place.
 
Posts: 373 | Location: Leesburg, GA | Registered: 22 October 2005Reply With Quote
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