Recently stumbled on a cooking method for meat (I'm a confirmed carnivore) that is stupid simple and works great. Cooks meat evenly from edge to center, gives you great flexibility on time and could easily be done while on the move. All it takes is an Igloo-type cooler, a meat thermometer and a zip-lock bag. This page explains it far better than I can, but I can tell you it works. I've done several steaks, a medium-sized pork roast and a ham this way, and they all came out perfect. For large cuts you'll need to monitor the temp and touch it up every hour-and-a-half or so.

Yesterday I read your post in the afternoon then did a bit of web research. I gave it a try on with 3 elk steaks last night. The results were outstanding. The steaks were cooked perfect all the way through.

I used a small "Playmate" cooler and had to add boiling water a few times. A larger cooler would have worked better, but I think I'll stick to the playmate for now.

I'm using a 30-quart Igloo I got at a dollar store for $20, filled about 2/3, and it holds the heat real well. One real nice thing about this technique is that once you've got it done meat can be held for HOURS as long as you monitor and maintain the temp, with no harm done. I do still sear the outside in a pan or on the grill for just a minute so I get the outer "crust" I'm used to, but if I had a vacuum sealer I'd do that first, season the steak, sear it, seal it up and freeze it. When I wanted to cook it I'd thaw it and put it in the cooler at 135 or so.

And bear in mind that traditional "safe cooking temperatures" for meat are based on the temperature at which momentary exposure will kill bacteria and such, but whereas exposure to 165 degrees for a few seconds will kill everything, so will (according to USDA) 130 degrees for 67 minutes, so pork (and presumably bear) doesn't have to be cooked to death to be entirely safe.

If you control the temp this would work in camp, in a canoe... ANYWHERE.

Fish works too

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
if I had a vacuum sealer I'd do that first, season the steak, sear it, seal it up and freeze it. When I wanted to cook it I'd thaw it and put it in the cooler at 135 or so.

That is the ULTIMATE bachelor set-up!(as a single father I am basically a batchlor with a 3yo daughter to take care of...)

I reheated some of the elk from last night. I sliced it and put it in a cast iron pan and heated it at a very low temp. It was "without a doubt" the best reheated steak I have ever had. I can't recall having a reheated steak this moist and tender. I have to admit that I thought this method was more of a stunt(like uncorking a wine bottle with a shoe) but I am beginning to see the endless possibilities.

I can't wait to try this method with fish.

This is just the low budget redneck version of sous vide, which is French for 'under vacuum', where the food is sealed in a vacuum bag and immersed in a hot water bath at a set temperature for hours. Which cooks it to the desired internal temp, and is then seared if it's a steak.

Not really new, it's been done in restaurants for a while.

You can buy a sous vide water oven for doing it at home, don't own one but I've used one a friend bought with good results.

SousVide Supreme is the World's Finest Water Oven

quote:

so pork (and presumably bear) doesn't have to be cooked to death to be entirely safe.

I wouldn't use this method for feral pig or bear. Certainly none that hadn't been frozen solid below 15 degrees for at least 10 days, which should kill Trichinella spiralis. Unless it's from the far North, where some can survive freezing temps.

quote:

Originally posted by Skinner.:
This is just the low budget redneck version of sous vide, which is French for 'under vacuum', where the food is sealed in a vacuum bag and immersed in a hot water bath at a set temperature for hours. Which cooks it to the desired internal temp, and is then seared if it's a steak.

Not really new, it's been done in restaurants for a while.

Didn't claim it was anything new, just new to me and, I thought, perhaps others. And you can certainly buy a $500 apparatus to do the same thing, and more, but good luck using it in most camps or while on the road.

quote:

And you can certainly buy a $500 apparatus to do the same thing

Well it's more than 'doing the same thing', the machine maintains an exact temperature for as long as the cooking time requires. And the vacuum bag seals the food in a pouch devoid of oxygen, which inhibits bacterial growth.

You can't really regulate and maintain the water temperature in a cooler and have any sort of assurance of food safety. With botulinum toxin being a real concern.

Sous vide cooking has to be done properly for it to be safe.

quote:

Originally posted by Skinner.:

quote:

And you can certainly buy a $500 apparatus to do the same thing

Well it's more than 'doing the same thing', the machine maintains an exact temperature for as long as the cooking time requires. And the vacuum bag seals the food in a pouch devoid of oxygen, which inhibits bacterial growth.

You can't really regulate and maintain the water temperature in a cooler and have any sort of assurance of food safety. With botulinum toxin being a real concern.

Well, if I put a chunk of meat in with the water temperature at 135, and check it an hour later and it's 133, I'm willing to leap to the conclusion, perhaps unfounded, that it has remained somewhere in between the whole time. Of course, it's always possible that as soon as I close the lid it immediately drops to 110, then jumps back to 133 when I open it...

quote:

Sous vide cooking has to be done properly for it to be safe.

Unlike every other kind of cooking known to mankind.

But since I have survived (and enjoyed) drawn quail encased in wet clay and buried under a fire for an imperfectly-timed interval, and ate a red howler monkey once with no worse effects than sore jaws from trying to chew it, I'll continue to live dangerously and take my chances.

You, however, should just eat solely in restaurants where you know it's safe, and all food is always meticulously prepared.

quote:

Originally posted by Skinner.:

quote:

And you can certainly buy a $500 apparatus to do the same thing

Well it's more than 'doing the same thing', the machine maintains an exact temperature for as long as the cooking time requires. And the vacuum bag seals the food in a pouch devoid of oxygen, which inhibits bacterial growth.

You can't really regulate and maintain the water temperature in a cooler and have any sort of assurance of food safety. With botulinum toxin being a real concern.

Sous vide cooking has to be done properly for it to be safe.

Skinner
That is just silly.

Do you believe a vacuum sealer will protect you from botulism?

It is not hard to regulate the water temp in a cooler. You periodically hold a meat thermometer in the water and add a splash of boiling water as needed.

If you use the method Jefffive outlined you will be safe:
1) Drop meat into ziplock bag and remove all air(not too difficult)
2) Pour heated water into an insulated container(cooler).
3) Add boiling water until you reach the desired temperature.
4) Drop meat bag into the water.
5) Check water temps several times and add adjust as needed.
6) After 45 minutes remove meat and check internal temp with a meat thermometer.

If you manage to create botulism using this method you are doing something wrong.

No, this is silly.

quote:

If you use the method Jefffive outlined you will be safe:

You both lack the data to claim that.

Seriously, you guys find a low budget emulation of a very precise and controlled cooking method on the internet and without any scientific data you proclaim it safe.

quote:

Originally posted by Skinner.:
No, this is silly.

quote:

If you use the method Jefffive outlined you will be safe:

You both lack the data to claim that.

Seriously, you guys find a low budget emulation of a very precise and controlled cooking method on the internet and without any scientific data you proclaim it safe.

Data?? You want data??

DATA

quote:

Originally posted by Skinner.:
No, this is silly.

quote:

If you use the method Jefffive outlined you will be safe:

You both lack the data to claim that.

Seriously, you guys find a low budget emulation of a very precise and controlled cooking method on the internet and without any scientific data you proclaim it safe.

Skinner
I may be wrong(I often am) but my impression is that you are a horse's ass. You jump into a thread and make some big BS claims then point out that those who disagree with your BS "lack data".

Maybe you can post some data that would show that cooking meat to an internal temp of 140 in less that 25 minutes, then holding it at that temp for 20 minutes would allow for the creation of botulism. Wait, you can't provide that data? Maybe that is because it doesn't exist because you can't create botulism with that time/temp scenario!

Before you get all upset about being called a horse's ass consider this: you said,

"And the vacuum bag seals the food in a pouch devoid of oxygen, which inhibits bacterial growth . You can't really regulate and maintain the water temperature in a cooler and have any sort of assurance of food safety. With botulinum toxin being a real concern."

This is dead wrong. Botulinum toxins are only created in an anaerobic environment(why do you think botulism is a danger in improperly canned-but fully sealed-canned food?). So the vacuum bag actually promotes the production of botulinum toxins.

But even in a sealed bag there is little chance that the method Jefffive mentioned could create botulism because botulinum toxin is created in an anaerobic environment when held in the temperature range of 40-120 degrees for three to four days.

Neither Jefffive nor any of the links he provided recommended cooking the meat at a temperature lower than 120 degrees, and none of them recommended anything like 3 days of cook time.

I guess I shouldn't call you a horse's ass. It would be more correct to call you an ignorant horse's ass.

quote:

Originally posted by Skinner.:
This is just the low budget redneck version of sous vide, which is French for 'under vacuum', where the food is sealed in a vacuum bag and immersed in a hot water bath at a set temperature for hours.

You are looking down your nose and calling this a "low budget redneck version".... That kinda smacks of hypocrisy coming from the guy who seems to be so proud of his "low budget redneck version" of a smoker:

quote:

Originally posted by Skinner.:
The BGE's are nice but they're expensive and not very portable, they're also not a water smoker.

The Weber Smokey Mountain Cooker/Smoker is a nice unit,



But it was pricey so I bought a used Weber kettle at a yard sale for like $10, barely ever used. And then found a 3' section of stainless steel tube that was about the same diameter at the scrap metals yard and copied the smoker grill, with shorter, heavier legs on casters, made a couple more grill grates and a thermometer.

Works great, and total cost was maybe $50.

BTW, I admire your smoker. But that doesn't change the fact that you are an ignorant horse's ass.

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by Skinner.:
This is just the low budget redneck version of sous vide, which is French for 'under vacuum', where the food is sealed in a vacuum bag and immersed in a hot water bath at a set temperature for hours.

You are looking down your nose and calling this a "low budget redneck version".... That kinda smacks of hypocrisy coming from the guy who seems to be so proud of his "low budget redneck version" of a smoker:

quote:

Originally posted by Skinner.:
The BGE's are nice but they're expensive and not very portable, they're also not a water smoker.

The Weber Smokey Mountain Cooker/Smoker is a nice unit,



But it was pricey so I bought a used Weber kettle at a yard sale for like $10, barely ever used. And then found a 3' section of stainless steel tube that was about the same diameter at the scrap metals yard and copied the smoker grill, with shorter, heavier legs on casters, made a couple more grill grates and a thermometer.

Works great, and total cost was maybe $50.

BTW, I admire your smoker. But that doesn't change the fact that you are an ignorant horse's ass.

Jason,

If anything you cook with this method kills you, I'll refund all the money you paid me for the suggestion

I guess Skinner didn't like all that data...

As anyone with outdoor cooking experience will tell you, there is no one "best" cooker. Every style has something it does best. Every cooker is notably less good at other things.

I just tried it again tonight. This time it was elk backstrap and elk filet.

I did it in a larger cooler which made keeping the temperature consistent very easy. OTOH, it was a PITA to heat up all that water. I started at 144 deg. but the temp dropped once the meat got a good soak. I added a bit more hot water and left it at +-144 deg for an hour then seared it.

I think this was the best steak I have had. It was almost too juicy(I didn't think that was possible).

I'll post photos later. My face is feeling a bit numb.....

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

I'll post photos later. My face is feeling a bit numb.....

Numbness of the face is one of the first signs of botulism.

Numbness of the brain is one of the first signs of Skinnerism.

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

I'll post photos later. My face is feeling a bit numb.....

Numbness of the face is one of the first signs of botulism.

Numbness of the brain is one of the first signs of Skinnerism.

Now that (and this thread) is really funny, unless your name is Skinner.

I'm going to have to try this. I wonder if some inventive soul (not me) could adopt a heater and temp gauge, on the lines of a aquarium heater, but hotter.

I really wish I hadn't cooked up the rest of the venison steaks I had in my freezer... sounds like this method would be perfect for them and other lean game meats. At least I have an excuse to pick up a ribeye and T-bone now!

quote:

Originally posted by Evan K.:
I really wish I hadn't cooked up the rest of the venison steaks I had in my freezer... sounds like this method would be perfect for them and other lean game meats. At least I have an excuse to pick up a ribeye and T-bone now!

You can add a marinade at the start, and if you have a vac sealer just prepare your marinade in advance, pour it into an ice tray and freeze, then drop a couple cubes in the bag before you seal it. Won't suck up liquid that way.

I typically refrain from using a marinade with good steaks. Salt, pepper, and charcoal/smoke does it for me with the natural flavors. But! If I'm doing multiple steaks with this new method I might as well experiment.

Would it be best to sear before or after cooking in the cooler?

quote:

Originally posted by Evan K.:
I typically refrain from using a marinade with good steaks. Salt, pepper, and charcoal/smoke does it for me with the natural flavors. But! If I'm doing multiple steaks with this new method I might as well experiment.

Would it be best to sear before or after cooking in the cooler?

If there's any detectable difference it favors searing after, but it's a close-run thing. I'm still experimenting, I do know that a pork roast cooked then frozen reheats wonderfully.

You almost get a natural marinade with whatever you spice with anyway because while some juice will cook out it's not lost, it just combines with the spices. I was thinking more of the leaner meats like venison might benefit from a marinade. Steaks don't need it, and they kinda upgrade a notch or two; a fair cut of meat comes out quite nice, a good one is great, and a really good one is ridiculous.

Putting a porterhouse on here shortly

Guys, I think we ran "Skinner." off this site. What a loss.

Anyway, I have been using this method and I have had great success. I will post some photos soon.

Has anyone else given it a try?

Well, I gave it a try, using a 30 qt cooler and some pork back ribs. I selected 140 degrees for the temp. The result was satisfactory, but 150 degrees would have been better.

Problem: Keeping the water up to temp. My water heater puts out at about 130 deg. It required a lot of boiling water to get the lot up to 140, and a lot to keep it there. An immersable heater would be helpful.

Thanks for the post. Will try.

Since the original Post I've done a BUNCH of experimenting, and only died twice...

Any BIG chunk of meat, given time, will cook beautifully this way. Four or five hours in the cooler and 30 minutes on a smoky grill is better every time than 4 hours on a slow grill.

Some folks find the meat straight out of the cooler not hot enough, so searing after works better by warming everything up a bit.

Other than chicken I haven't had any birds to try, but have no doubt they would be great.

Since it's been a year I thought I'd update this with perhaps the BEST use for this method: bacon.

Being pork, bacon needs to be well cooked, but doing it in a cooler lets you thoroughly cook it while leaving it totally soft. If you use packaged bacon you don't have to take it out of the original package, and after cooking it looks pretty much exactly like it starts. You can then use it as a wrap for dry stuff that needs the fat and flavor or fry it to any degree of crispness you like, it doesn't have to be fried to death because it's fully (and safely) cooked before it hits the skillet. Wrapped around dove breasts and grilled just enough to cook the breasts, or the same with catfish...

Sounds interesting. Not to rain on your parade Jefffive, but bacon is cured and therefore can be eaten "raw".

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Andersen:
Sounds interesting. Not to rain on your parade Jefffive, but bacon is cured and therefore can be eaten "raw".

Of course bacon (American style, "streaky" bacon, not Canadian Bacon) can be eaten raw. The question is, can it be eaten safely raw, and the answer is not really. It's similar to eating raw beef, someone can do it dozens or hundreds of times without getting e coli from it, but it can and does happen. Would I do it, maybe, is it really safe, no. The USDA recommends against it for one source and considers even the normal "cured" bacon to be raw pork.

USDA on bacon

I think you should all read the book titled "The Green Smoothies Diet" by Robin Openshaw.

I have read this thread with interest and it has generated a desire to try it. Much discussion about vacuum sealed, zip lock bag, big cooler or small. Not one person has stated if it works while imbibing, which is a requirement when I do the cooking.

quote:

Originally posted by lindy2:
I think you should all read the book titled "The Green Smoothies Diet" by Robin Openshaw.

To each his own, but in my case, yuk!