I saw the neatest rifle yesterday. A local pawn shop has a couple of Elmer Keith's firearms.

His grandson pawned a Shiloh Sharps in 45 2 4/10ths with serial number EK100. AKA 45-90.

With complete provenance. Copy of his will leaving the rifle (and an 1860 Army) to his grandson, and a bill of sale with a copy of the kid's photo ID when he brought it in to pawn.

He also had a couple 1902 Colts.

Fun day.

Rich

you did buy it.......right?

I am "short" about $2500, about half of what he wants for the rifle. I even talked with him about my 71/86 clone that is off at Turnbull's for some work and color case hardening.

It's pretty neat, 30" full octagon barrel and magazine in 50-110 with brass and dies.

Negotiations are underway...

OK, you had me concerned for a while. In these parts “Pawn Shops” are full of used electronics, worn out tools, overpriced single barrel shotguns and Bryco pistols - not the kind of place befitting of Elmer Kieth's firearms. At least your Pawn Shop sounds like it knows nice guns when it sees them.

Rich, This sounds like one that if you don't get it you'll be kicking yourelf in the back 40 for many years to come.

Rich--What kind of Sharps is it--In other words who made it? That serial number "EK 100" sounds a bit bogus to me for an original rifle unless it is an original that is extensively reworked. I also find it odd that a grandson would pawn something like that unless he is a real dipstick.

Shiloh Sharps aren't originals, just excellent modern made Sharps.

Good luck Rich on the deal.

I cannot imagine pawning or selling my Grand Father's firearms. Especially a Grand Father such as Elmer Keith.

Jim

quote:

Originally posted by arkypete:
I cannot imagine pawning or selling my Grand Father's firearms. Especially a Grand Father such as Elmer Keith.

Jim

Here I have to agree. Would be Keith my father/grandfather, and there were no problems with the possession of such rifles/guns, unlike here in Germany, I would try to leave such things to my children yet.
My dad is owning many old collectible firearms, nearly hundred, or so. But I don´t know, if I ever can inherit these "treasures", in a future Germany.


Martin

quote:

Originally posted by sharpsguy:
Rich--What kind of Sharps is it--In other words who made it? That serial number "EK 100" sounds a bit bogus to me for an original rifle unless it is an original that is extensively reworked. I also find it odd that a grandson would pawn something like that unless he is a real dipstick.

It was made by the "original" Shiloh Sharps Company, not the current owners.

I took Rich over to see it just to watch him drool!!
And yes the grandson is a dipstick!

Shane

Warning....buy the rifle, not the story.

quote:

Originally posted by tendrams:
Warning....buy the rifle, not the story.

Normally I would tend to agree with you, but how much more provenance would it take to convince you? It sounds like something that should be bought to me if the price is anything approaching reasonable.

I saw the will, and the bill of sale with photo ID. I made a call to Shiloh, they do not have those records.

Made a call to C Sharps yesterday, they are checking for me. A letter from them stating who the rifle was built for and delivered to should about wrap things up. I was told that they did a "very few" with custom serial numbers.

Cannot find it mentioned in any of Elmer's writings.

When was Elmer bedridden ? When was the rifle buit ? Did he ever shoot it or even handle it ?
Why is it EK 100 ? Did they build 99 others ?

If the Grandson is a dipstick, he takes after his Dad. Said to be a registered Democrat who (in fact) worked for some college in ID.

Ted is a CPA and retired as Internal Auditor at Boise State some years back. The last time I talked with him he was busy doing a statewide program with the Republican Bigwigs here, including the Governor.

EK had his first stroke in 1981, had a second and was transferred to Heritage Capitol Nursing in Boise where Ted lived the next spring. It was about two miles from my house. Ted allowed me the privilege of going over a couple evenings a week and reading to him from five or six Mailsacks of fan mail and get well cards.

Again, iirc, he died in early 1984. His wife died a couple years later. They are buried side by side beneath the same headstone in Salmon.

I am waiting on C Sharps for the data, hopefully followed by a letter. The rifle was, also iirc, in a G&A article in the late seventies. Droege had just relocated from Farmingdale to Big Timber.

The rifle had to have been built in the mid to late 1970's.

quote:

Originally posted by artshaw:
Cannot find it mentioned in any of Elmer's writings.

When was Elmer bedridden ? When was the rifle buit ? Did he ever shoot it or even handle it ?
Why is it EK 100 ? Did they build 99 others ?

If the Grandson is a dipstick, he takes after his Dad. Said to be a registered Democrat who (in fact) worked for some college in ID.

Sounds to me like you don't know shit about what you're talking about.

Rich,
Wolfgang Drouge was not part of C Sharps he was Shiloh Sharps. I worked for Wolf when he was in Farmingdale and he moved in the early eighties to Big Timber John was already out there with C Sharps and Wolf at that time supplied C Sharps with all their actions.

I can understand someone needing money and liquidating a family heirloom, but hocking it in a pawnshop.....that is just unseemly.

405, and the group

I have a sad revelation for you re pawn shops. As we all know they are a last resort for the poorest of poor and druggies. They hear so many sad tales of woe, that they develop calluses on their heart. You have to, to stay in business. A gunsmith friend worked in one for several years. I hung out in the back with him a couple afternoons a week. This one young lady, a real looker, came in and pawned her cellphone for $5 on Mondays and Thursdays. She was a "tweaker" and also addicted to cigarettes. Tuesday and Friday, she came back in a got it back. Paid a dollar for a 24 hour pawn. A guy worked construction as a framer. Every Thursday, just before closing at 6, he came in and pawned his tool belt for $20. Went on a drunk. Friday morning he went to work early, got his check, went and got his tools back. Paid $24.

If a customer comes in with something the pawn shop wants, really wants; they offer more than the client asks for. The customer takes the extra $$$, and generally can't pay it back. They hang on for a couple months, just paying the interest, then fade away.

In this case, they also got a Colt 1860 Army revolver.

It is a sad thing to have to witness.

Rich

I don't recall the year but since Elmer died in 1984 it was only a year or two before that, BUT there used to be an organization called the Virginia City Buffalo Runners Assoc., VC, Montana. We held buffalo gong shoots on Ford Bovey's property between VC and down the gulch closer to Nevada City on the last week of June. I shot there for 17 years. This organization was the forerunner of the Quigley shoot of today and other gong shoots around the country.

Shiloh had always donated a rifle to the shoot as a last day prize amongst the association members. Wolf nearly always came over from Big Timber to present the gun to the winner. Most, if not all of them, were #1 sporting rifles in 45-70.

Anyway, before Elmer died, he was invited to come over and shoot with us and we presented him a rifle, probably the one now sadly sitting in a pawn shop. I vaguely recall that this rifle was "fancier" in his honor. He was awfully frail but I think he shot a few rounds. I only remember him as irrascible as ever.

There is an old write-up about the event in the Black Powder Cartrige Rifle magazine still published in Cody.

This rifle would be trying to get a hold of IMHO.

Elmer Keith: 1899-1984

By John Taffin

An era has passed. Elmer Keith, the Grand Old Man is dead. Elmer, who seemed bigger than life, should have died in a gunfight, or have been mauled by a grizzly, or simply rode off into the sunset. Instead, the big Stetson and the Smith & Wesson .44 Magnum were set aside in December of 1981 when he suffered the de-habilitating stroke. His strength showed as he fought the stroke for over two years, passing away on February 12, 1984 in a Boise nursing home.


A good source for his writing during the AR and Guns and Ammo years:

http://www.elmerkeithshoot.org/GA/


BTW, Gato, I have forgotten more about Elmer Keith than you will ever know. Take a guess who is the ONLY publisher of the 1961 edition of Sixguns..........

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
Normally I would tend to agree with you, but how much more provenance would it take to convince you? It sounds like something that should be bought to me if the price is anything approaching reasonable.

Documentation in the magazine mentioned below (ideally with pictures that match) AND a factory letter would convince me. That said, I am still not sure I would pay a particularly huge premium for the weapon.

quote:

Anyway, before Elmer died, he was invited to come over and shoot with us and we presented him a rifle...There is an old write-up about the event in the Black Powder Cartrige Rifle magazine still published in Cody.

tendrams,

a bit of a moot point, since the rifle will next come up for sale as part of my estate liquidation.

As an aside, I spoke with Elmer Keith's only son Ted on the phone Friday, and he has also confirmed the rifle's provenance for me. I am in the process of acquiring sufficient documentation to satisfy even the biggest skeptic.

A chance meeting with Keith's grandson the same day, provided his agreement to providing me with a copy of the will/gift letter, and a bill of sale to me.

Use it as he intended it to be used Rich!
Not as a closet queen!
Congratulations!

quote:

Use it as he intended it to be used Rich!
Not as a closet queen!

Yes, there's already one Closet Queen that I know of in that household :-)

ROTFLMAO...


Are you going to let him get away with that Rich??

Good for you Rich.
As an Idahoian, and a "Keithite" you will appreciate that rifle and care for it properly.

When you can please show us some pictures of it.

I think he's talking about my serial number 6,xxx OM 70 22 Hornet.

Either that; or Biebs is merely "projecting" his personal belief system...

make a note: he IS from Kalifornia.

Nice find, Rich! That rifle is a true collectible and worthy of being a closet queen. But, if it were mine, I would still shoot it every once in a great while.

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
Nice find, Rich! That rifle is a true collectible and worthy of being a closet queen. But, if it were mine, I would still shoot it every once in a great while.

Come on Rich tell everyone who told you about this

Whose your buddy...whose your friend.....

I confess, NPD345 took me over to the pawn shop.
First trip, I bought a nice 1961 Featherweight in 30-06.

Then we get on to the stuff in the back...

quote:

Originally posted by arkypete:
I cannot imagine pawning or selling my Grand Father's firearms. Especially a Grand Father such as Elmer Keith.

Jim

The new normal...(insert motivation here)

another confused 40-something young man. A restless soul, searching for that "perfect scenario" to settle into.

This is the third time he has pawned the rifle. He got it back the first time, the second time Mom (aka the Eternal Enabler) rescued them, after that the Dad cut him loose.

I met him, he's a likeable guy. Has a chronic medical condition that requires a lot of expensive medication, and jobs that do not handle most of the cost.

I have a couple family firearms, it would require a serious and prolonged hardship to sell them.

Nahhhhhhhhhhh, just shoot me and let the descendants fight over them.

Good luck with it Rich. I look forward to the photos. IIRC he was the young man pictured sitting with his family in "Hell I was There".

I am amazed he pawned the rifle. Elmer's WR 470 at Holts went for much more than I was prepared to pay. Enjoy it.

Best wishes, Chris

Congrats Rich.
Pics please!
It's sad when items of family importance are put up for sale. I'm glad it's in someone's hands who can appreciate it. Maybe Rich can donate them to the EK museum later or maybe the soon to be RK museum lol!

working on it...

I stopped by the Cabela's in Boise last month while in the area bird hunting. I enjoyed the Elmer Keith display.

We have good news.

The rifle works. I loaded up a few with 777 and a 520gr PP bullet and went out to see. 200yds off the bench, and the sights put rounds 3" high. It was actually fired in the past, and sighted in. Six rounds in 3". It's a very good place to start.

Woo-Hoo!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll get pictures up asap

Rich

Good stuff!

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I'll get pictures up asap
Rich