Mr. Yamagishi

I know quite a bit after several discussions with Ted.

Show me where I called you a thief. All I said was that Ted said you took his grinding fixture.

{but I dunno, something about 22WRF really pisses me of}

I do know, something about Wiebe really pisses me off.

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
Mr. Yamagishi

I know quite a bit after several discussions with Ted.

Show me where I called you a thief. All I said was that Ted said you took his grinding fixture.

You say you know quite a bit, lets hear it!

What I know is between Ted and You, and best kept between Ted and You in private. Its not for me to repeat here on a public forum.

" Reasonable Expectation " Eludes the rest of us..
AK

I’m starting to think all involved should go in front of Judge Whopner.

Many of you are in the dark about my problems with Duane Wiebe. I don’t like having to post this but maybe it will put an end to all this B.S.
About May, 2008 I started receiving calls from Duane Wiebe saying that he and Steve Yamagishi (Button) wanted to come out to help me run some trigger guards. I kept telling him no thanks, I did not need or want their help. About April 1, 2008 Duane called and said that they had already purchased plane tickets and could not get a refund so they were going to come out. He said they really wanted to help me. I have known Duane Wiebe for almost 50 years and I trusted him. Because of this I relented although I was warned they were not coming out to help me. They arrived here on April 4 and stayed until April 6. During this time we made 32 M-70 trigger guards. On April 7 I discovered that they had taken 16 of these guards. This amounted to $5,120.00 in merchandise.
There was never any discussion about any arraignments with me. In fact Maggie came down to the shop and tried to get Duane and Steve to set down and talk about what they wanted to get out of this and they told her, we just want to help you out and we can work out our pay latter.
I was not prepared for them to arrive here on that Friday. I would not be receiving any money until the following Monday.
They did buy 2 bars of steel and pay the electric bill. The total was $858.20. Balance this with $5,120.00 and Steve wanted $576.43 back.
While they were here Duane spent his time putting parts into my CNC and pushing the start button. He had no knowledge of how to do anything else on my machine. Steve spent his time sawing stock on the band saw that I set up. Both of these jobs require no training.
One of my customers that Maggie had sold guards to called to say that Duane called him and said we had no guards for delivery. We sent the guards to the customer and he was very happy.
On about Sept. 20 Duane and Steve showed up at my shop wanting to buy me out. I had no desire to do this. A week later I learned that Duane and Steve had an add on the internet that they were making bottom metal. I then learned they were set up to do this before they came out here (TO HELP ME OUT).
We received calls from customers telling us that. Duane called and said they were selling some of my guards. Again to (HELP ME OUT).
When Duane learned that I was very upset he called and said if I did not keep my mouth shut he was going to come out here and beat the Sh—out of me. He also said that he F----d me and it felt real good. Well Duane, “Simper Fi”
Included with this is an e-mail that Duane Wiebe sent to one of my customers. I will answer this according to the numbers he has listed.

the truth is that the arrangement with that asshole was:
1. We buy all tooling necessary
2. We buy all material
3. We split the end result...whewther it's 2 or 200
4. We knew Smithson was reasdy to call in his note via reposession...the
folowing Monday was the absolute deadline.
5. Ted was happy as a clam...even had tears in his eyes while expressing his
thanks.
6. We hade 30 pieces of m-70's, took 14, including two rejects as our "half"
7 Ted wanted us back in two weeks to "do it again"
8. Enter...Maggie...she apparently covinced Ted "Duane and Steve made too
much"
9. We know for a fact that Smithson had a truck and forklift rented for the
following Monday...he told us so..Ted convinced Smithson he now had the
means to satisfy the note (via the M-70 units)
10. This is aside from the fact that the power company was ready to turn his
elecricity OFF the Friday we arrived
11. Steve made a personal sacrafice via a loan to Ted and personally went to
the power company with Maggie to pay and verify...he would not give the
money to Maggie or fear she would use it for her own pleasure (Very wise)

12. Eight months later, Ted has not paid the note (which was due in 30 days)
13. Many weeks prior, Steve had a wad of cash and purchased items Ted had
for sale...much of it of no immediate use to Steve. Steve asked how much he
wanted for the grinding fixture..or would Ted make one for him? Ged gave him
the shaft (yeah,,, the SHAFT) as a gift! saying he wanted to redesign a new
one anyway
I told you once before: Nosler tried to help him out...now they'e assholes!
Smithson tried to help him out...now he's as asshole! We tried to help him
out..now we're assholes!

Is there a pattern here?

www.bottommetal.com
duane@customgunandrifle.com
(253) 535-0066

1. They bought no tooling.
2. $281.00
3. Was never discussed.
4. I have a receipt that this was paid on 3-1-07.
5. I was happy until the next day.
6. $5,120.00 (nice pay)
7. You answer this one.
8. Keep my daughter out of this, low life.
9. See #4
10. It would have been back on the following Monday.
11. Another cheap shot from low life.
12. Duane, this had nothing to do with you. You were not even there.
13. Steve bought 1 .270 BBL and 1 Action for $600.00. (Because he wanted them)
I could not keep up with the Nosler orders and my other customers too. If I want to make more they will buy them. John Nosler and I are good friends.
Joe Smithson is a good friend of mine. I took on more than I could do.
You say that you tried to help me out.
I’ll leave this decision to my customers.
Ted Blackburn

It's about time you set the record straight. This has gone on long enough. Glad to see the cat's out of the bag. Now for everybody to just back off and let you go back to work, that's where your bread and butter comes from not the forum squabble. Good luck Lovebug

Wow, didn't see this coming when I opened the thread. Friends for nearly fifty years and it came to this is my only comment. Damn shame.

I'm just a newbie here but my eyes are becoming more open all the time. There's always 2 sides to any story but most folks want to cover one of 'em up...
Regards, Joe

Is this never going to end? The "12 points" I made these points in a PRIVATE message to...guess who...22WRF! It was in response to an accusing inquiry...22WRF...he..who has invested in Blackburn...who has a vested interest in Blackburn

But....I stand behind every damn word! These points are easy for me to remember, because the truth is always easy to remember.

I haven't even know Blackburn for 50 years...I would not be calling him for a visit in May...then show up in April?

Maggie has told me that Ted suffers from memory loss...it shows, old boy!

You think the bottom metal business is your own private baliwick...I remember how you screeched when Pete Grisel started making his product.

You don;t see me coming unglued every time some new, talented gunmaker, stockmaker or metalsmith comes on the scene, do you?

The way to excel is to make the best product possible..not by trying to bring down competition to your level.

Well, I agree that Mr. Wiebe's comments were made to me in a PM, but they were in direct response to questions that I asked him on behalf of Mr. Blackburn. He knew I was asking for Ted.

Consider this.
A couple of guys go down to make some bottom metal at somebody elses shop, and a few weeks later start a company to produce and sell that same bottom metal.

It therefore appears that these guys went down to make this bottom metal to see how it was made and what all of the dimensions were so that it could be copied, rather than to just help the guy out.

The bottom line, for me at least, is that Ted has a copywrite for the shape of his triggerguard, and it certainly appears that the new company is making its trigger guards the same shape.

And once again, for the record, I have no vested interest in the Blackburn company. I met Ted and Maggie many years ago when their shop was in Springville. I have ordered products from them on occasion ever since. And I have taken the time to stop in and visit with them every chance I get when I am in their area.
I am just a customer and a friend. No vested financial interest whatsoever.

quote:

I hope this clears up a few things and I will again ask that we take it off the forem and invite Ted to call me and get this cleared up.

Probably the best thing for everyone involved. I would say however that copywrite law doesn't require an exact copy for infringement.

The lid on my commode closes the same way.
Butch

Actually I would be astounded if copyright law offered any hope of redress for any shape 'infringement' unless the shape was directly connected with either the operation or the manufacturer's logo/history. In this case neither is applicable, most all these aftermarket TGs look similar if not identical and they're all copies of Mauser units. Public domain, I'm afraid.
Regards, Joe

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:

Probably the best thing for everyone involved. I would say however that copywrite law doesn't require an exact copy for infringement.

Do you mean copyright law? Maybe you should just walk away from this one. You seem way too involved to be offering legal opinions.

It seems what usually happens in these threads is people choose sides with who they like not who is right. I bet both sides wish they had a do over as neither is going to come out of this smelling like a rose. Blackburn products have sketchy delivery times, whether coincidence or not the timing of Sound Metal Products jump into the business has to raise an eyebrow. Nobody wins here except maybe Sunny Hill.

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:
Actually I would be astounded if copyright law offered any hope of redress for any shape 'infringement' unless the shape was directly connected with either the operation or the manufacturer's logo/history. In this case neither is applicable, most all these aftermarket TGs look similar if not identical and they're all copies of Mauser units. Public domain, I'm afraid.
Regards, Joe

I don't think I would be astounded. The copyright office would not issue copyright protection if they didn't think the shape of the triggerguard was artistically protected. As everyone knows, the shape of a Blackburn triggerguard is a far cry from the shape of a Mauser triggerguard. it is, in a sense, unique. There are two ways of finding out. ONe was would be to bring the issue before a federal judge and jury, costing both of the parties untold thousands and thousands of dollars. One party would ultimately win, and it would be very good for those damn lawyers. The other way would be to negotiate some sort of agreement between the parties. Probably a whole lot cheaper, and with considerably less risk.

Mr. Helm:

I admit to being a very poor at spelling.

Enough -
closed