CNC Specialty Products

We have Mexican Mauser bottom metal.

We are taking order for Mexican Mauser bottom metal. It will be ready to ship on 2/13/09.

CNC Specialty Products
P.O. Box 369
50 East 100 North
Levan, UT 84639
Phone: 435-623-1388
Fax: 435-623-1828

Maggie
I truely do not wish to come across as rude, BUT. I had better be getting a call soon to let me know that the "2" I ordered, over 3 years ago will be shipping soon!
Thanks, Doug

quote:

Originally posted by drm-hp:
Maggie
I truely do not wish to come across as rude, BUT. I had better be getting a call soon to let me know that the "2" I ordered, over 3 years ago will be shipping soon!
Thanks, Doug

Maybe it would have been less rude to send Maggie a PM rather than post here.

22wrf,
Maybe so, but it had the desired effect!
Maggie called to say she was sending the parts for the rifle I started over three years ago. She also told me what they had in stock and what they are running next. Ted has always made a quality product, and I wish them well for the future.
Thanks, Doug
P.S. If I am going to publicly call someone out, I had better publicly say that all is fine if things work out, and they are!! Thank you Maggie.

Thank You, Doug

Received the parts today. Will be calling to place another order soon. Thanks for the service.
lb404
Leonard in Oklahoma.

Maggie, I need one more Mexican bottom metal please send COD or I can send a check to you for the order.

I will put you down for one.

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:

quote:

Originally posted by drm-hp:
Maggie
I truely do not wish to come across as rude, BUT. I had better be getting a call soon to let me know that the "2" I ordered, over 3 years ago will be shipping soon!
Thanks, Doug

Maybe it would have been less rude to send Maggie a PM rather than post here.

Years of waiting? Rude for asking for a reply in a forum where the person posteD?

hardly -

Hardly not. That could have easily been handled through a PM. Why do people think that a forum is the place to handle their dirty laundry?

Because sometimes PM does not work. That being said, I'm glade to hear that things are going well for you and your dad and that you are begining to get somethings cleaned up from the past. I hope this means that the loan that turned your power back on is going to be paid? Hope so! Best of luck to you.

quote:

Originally posted by SGYamagishi:
Because sometimes PM does not work. That being said, I'm glade to hear that things are going well for you and your dad and that you are begining to get somethings cleaned up from the past. I hope this means that the loan that turned your power back on is going to be paid? Hope so! Best of luck to you.

That was a shitty thing to do.

Why? Sometimes it's the only way.

quote:

Originally posted by SGYamagishi:
Why? Sometimes it's the only way.

That kind of business should be done in private by email or PMs. You have got to be a real personality to hang this kind of laundry on a public forum. Shame on you.

Olcrip and 22WRF, what is the problem with stating facts. If someone has been jacked around and lied to about delivery times or anything else I think this forum is exactly the right place to air it all out. Mr. WRF you are a constant apologist for the gunsmiths and manufacturers (Greg Hein sound familiar) who at the least are poor excuses for businessmen and have literally been hammered in court and found guilty of fraud or something so close to it most folks can't tell the difference. If people have been screwed we all want to know about it so we can avoid a similar fate. If you don't like it then shame on you!

The truth is never inappropriate, most of the world's problems are made worse by folks trying to conceal it. If you don't like the truth then you may be someone to avoid.

My Bride is always accusing me of not 'sugar-coating' my words. My response has always been that I began (whatever discussion) by sugar-coating them but got no results so now I'm telling her how the cow ate the cabbage!

Seems to me that several years is a long enough time span so that some pretty offensive curses might have been in order if no response had been received this time.
JMO, regards, Joe

Posted 05 February 2009 18:18 Hide Post
(The truth is never inappropriate, most of the world's problems are made worse by folks trying to conceal it. If you don't like the truth then you may be someone to avoid.)

With all due respect:

I certainly do not disagree with that statement. The truth is always appropriate. But the trouble is that a public forum is a piss poor way of getting at the truth because
1. There are no rules.
2. There is no effective cross examination.
3. There is no judge.
4. All of the details are usually not divulged and are sometimes misstated.

And so, what we are left with, most of the time, are partial truths, opinions, and subjective perceptions of the truth.

For example, I could come on here and say
"Maggie, where is the hell is that bottom metal for which I sent a check to you 10 years ago?"
If nothing more was said, many folks would get the impression that Maggie was a crook.

But what if Maggie came back and said the check bounced (when it actually didn't). then everyone would think I was the crook.

And what if I couldn't produce a copy of the paid check. Nothing would get straightened out.

Hell, its a known fact that we have executed innocent men in this country. NOt even a court of law could get it right and a court of law is a far better place to get at the truth than an internet forum.

So I stand by my stance that this forum is a very very poor place to conduct buisness except to advise other people what you have to sell. Transactions, and trouble with transactions, should be handled privately.

quote:

Originally posted by Blake 70:
Olcrip and 22WRF, what is the problem with stating facts. If someone has been jacked around and lied to about delivery times or anything else I think this forum is exactly the right place to air it all out. Mr. WRF you are a constant apologist for the gunsmiths and manufacturers (Greg Hein sound familiar) who at the least are poor excuses for businessmen and have literally been hammered in court and found guilty of fraud or something so close to it most folks can't tell the difference. If people have been screwed we all want to know about it so we can avoid a similar fate. If you don't like it then shame on you!

Blake 70, I can understand being disgruntled over the three year time span. Was the product in production at the time of the order or was it still in R&D. R&D takes time to finalize and start production on a product that they can stand behind. This might be able to explain away the long wait. Look at the rest of the industry, they all have long delivery times for a product that is in demand. Cut some slack here, please. But as far as the loan remark goes, that was a cheap shot... If SGYamagishi has laundry to put on the line to dry then he should hang all the facts on the line instead of cheap shots below the belt. Was it a loan for R&D, a personal loan or a production material loan? Or was it an actual loan by SGYamagishi and not some scuttle butt that he'd overheard? If you can't put all the fact out then don't take jabs below the belt.

From what I have read on the thread, the people are about to go into production and satisfying their commitments. They took the time to bring us a dependable product. They are becoming a valuable asset to the gun community. Let's stand behind them with support instead of disdain. We need to support a new entity in the gun community during a climate that the federal government along with some of the state governments are trying to cripple.

If you make accusations, state all the facts, don't hide behind cheap shots. JMO, Olcrip

Olcrip

2 things you need to know.

1. Blackburn's business is not a "new entity". They have been producing custom bottom metal for many years.

2. Mr. Yamagishi is Mr. Wiebe's partner in their new venture, and is therefore a competitor of Mr. Blackburn's.

There are quite a few other things that a lot of people do not know about this whole situation. But here is not the place to discuss them.

More facts: 22WRF is an attoney and he told me he is injecting money into Blackburn's "new start" Does that make 22WRF Blackburn's attorney of his business partner?

I know about this loan: for 22 WRF's record, Steve Yamagishi and I were not partners at the time of the loan. At that time we had not even entertained the idea of forming Sound Metal Products.

Fact: I know that Steve used house payment mon ey to loan Ted Blackburn around $600.00. The power company was going to shut off his electricity that afternoon, which was a Friday.

Blackburn signed a promissary note which I witnessed that was to be repaid in 30 days...just enough time for Steve to make his house payment!

Fact: Steve has tried, tried and tried again...I might add, very politely to recover this loan. He has been ingored and received downright hostility from Blackburn.

Steve lives in CA. Trying to recover in UT can become both costly and energy consuming.

When Steve discussed posting on AR, he was well aware of responses he might get from bleeding heart old ladies, but the fact remains that Ted Blackburn owes Steve Yamagishi money and so far has refused to either pay up or make suitable arrangements.

No: I don't blame Steve one damn bit going public...these forums have the historical precedent for doing so..."case law" if you will!

Fact

Business has been tough.

Fact

Mistakes have been made that are difficult to correct during a recession.

Fact

Some of us are getting older.

Fact

Good mauser actions for conversion are getting harder to find

Fact

Not as many are converting military mauser actions

Fact

Most mauser action manufactueres today make their own bottom metal

Fact

Competition is getting tougher

Fact

Banks aren't lending for inventory buildup

Fact

Contracts from former clients have been broken

Fact

Ted is doing the best he can given the circumstances he is under and when he gets ahead he will honor his commitments.

Observation

I don't blame Steve either. If he lent money he ought to get it back. And I believe he will unless everyone here continues to keep running Ted down so that his business goes under for good.

Observation

If a gunsmith or anyone else for that matter owed me money I would be out there talking the guy up rather than talking the guy down. I wouldn't lie, but I sure as the hell wouldn't be trying to put the guy out of business so that he couldn't pay me my money!

Duane, I may be a bleeding heart old lady, but things should have been more open. If the loan was made and never repaid after several attempts then by all means expose it. In doing so explain the situation , don't make it look like a cheap shot to the groan. We forum members that are not privy to the situation are owed an explanation so we don't become old broads with hemorrhaging hearts. I feel he owes us that. He may have been in the right and I don't begrudge him that but let the rest of us in on it. Without details I will respond in the same manner over and over again. Just my effort to keep peace and harmony in the gun community. Nuff said, Olcrip

Wow the - metal - chips are flying. I hope we get to the bottom - metal - of this soon. We have enough projects on our - floor - plate to pass around to everyone. You can't let your - trigger - guard down for a second, with out someone getting un - hinged - . Maybe we all should - release - some of our energy at the - bow - flex. Of course some couldn't get the - lead - out and some got a bit - rusty - . Usually people or businesses - spring - into -action - to fill a void or a need. When you get bitten by the - bug- for a new project and thought the - sun- was hotter over the other - hill- sometimes - wisner - heads prevail.

22WRF..please don't patronize me... answer my questions. Are you Blackburn's attorney yes____ no_____

Are you Blackburn's business partner Yes___ No___


Since you have injected funds into Blackburn's "new start" just what is your position?


I have the right to ask these questions in the public forum because it is you that brought up the partnership issue.

For the record: As a Sound Metal Products spokesman, I go on record: We have no desire to put Blackburn "out of business" He can do that all by himself.

No and no. I have injected funds by paying for products in advance. Please don't patronize me either. I want to see Ted succeed because:

1. I happen to like him and his daughter Maggie. They both has been very kind to me.

2. So that there is a choice in bottom metal. Competition is a good thing.

Buy injecting funds, do you mean buying product?

That was for Duane.

No: Kevin old me that he was investing funds in tooling and materials..little different than buying a finished product.

One is an investor, the other a customer. Point made...back to work

Duane-

What I think is funny is how much more of a man Maggie is than Kevin. She has made it clear who she is from Day 1. I really do respect her for not trying to hide behind a screen name and remaining anonymous.

Maggie posted Kevin's name a few days ago and that is the very first time I have found out who he is. I asked him to at least be man enough to post his real name on numerous occasions when he was being contrary in various threads throughout the years. He was never man enough to do it and would slip away under the cover his screen name. That behavior fits with other information I have learned about him.

Three years ago he was bouncing around the idea of starting a new company to make bottom metal, and copying Blackburn units to do so. This was during some of us customer’s “Darkest Blackburn Days” when delivery was not even a vague concept. Recently he has started defending Blackburn tooth and nail and through this time has not been man enough to come clean and lay it all out on the table. He just makes little swipes and snide remarks and will occasionally try to hide behind or threaten with some legal this or that. I live with him in MN and he may file something against me for just writing this. I am man enough to post my real name, so he will be able to find me. That is if he is not too busy trying to get elected judge somewhere yet again.

22WRF seems to really be irked that folks are really taking to your new bottom metal right when he appears to have partnered up with Blackburn. It is amazing that when a guy with a well established and respected reputation starts making something to his usual high standards, delivering on time as he has for many years, and keeping everyone in the loop, folks flock to him. Strange how that happens, isn’t it? Trust me Duane, a hell of a lot more folks listen to you than to that clown. That is why so many folks are doing as I am and planning to use your new bottom metal on our next projects.

I do my best to stay to gunmaking on this forum, and have gotten to where I rarely even post at all. But 22WRF is just too funny to pass this u. If we could buy him for what he is worth and sell him for he thinks he is worth, well, we would buy a lot of bottom metal with that money!

quote:

Originally posted by SGYamagishi:
Because sometimes PM does not work. That being said, I'm glade to hear that things are going well for you and your dad and that you are begining to get somethings cleaned up from the past. I hope this means that the loan that turned your power back on is going to be paid? Hope so! Best of luck to you.

Steve Button ( Yamagishi )
When you pay me for the grinding fixture or send it back. Then I will pay you what you say I owe you, because the ginding fixture is worth more. You got the fixture long before any of this s__t went down. To my regreat I trusted you.
Ted Blackburn

I an greatfull to 22WRF and others for the support they have given us.
Ted

Thanks, Marc..

Stokeld

Your are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I could care less what you write. You don't know half of what you are talking about.

You criticize me for having a screen name. Why just me? How about the over 10,000 other members here who use a screen name. What about them? Just shows you are trying to win an argument by attacking the person because your argument on the issues lacks any merit. Its a common tactic I see all of the time.

Lets review what I have said on this thread.
1. That drm-hp might have handled things better by sending Maggie a PM
2. That I was all for truth, but that this forum was a poor place to ascertain truth.
3. Corrected Olcrip that Blackburn's was not a new entity. Advised Olcrip that Mr. Yamagishi was Mr. Wiebe's partner (common knowledge on their website)
4. That Ted has had some hard times.
5. That I am not Ted's partner
6. that I am for competition in the market place.

I have not stated that Duane did anything wrong on this thread. All I am attempting to do is help Ted and Maggie so they stay in business. That way gun owners have a choice.

Then you come on here with some off the wall assinine dissertation that has nothing to do with anything. Your interpretation of my posts on this thread is totally incorrect, and if you had any decency at all you would have contacted me for an understanding of what I have written before you spouted off.

If you want to buy your bottom metal from Duane that is fine with me. Its a free country. There may be some folks who would prefer to buy Sunny Hill. that is fine with me. Its a free country. All I am trying to do is help Ted to continue to be able to offer his fine products. If you want to start making bottom metal thats fine with me.

All you ever seem to do here on AR anymore is complain, criticize, and spout off about shit you know nothing about. Its a wonder anybody even reads what you write.

22 WRF, AKA Kevin Kolosky for 2nd choice, or maybe not even in the running, for judge and a kept man on top of it all. Sue me you lying SOB

Kobe

Are you still mad at me because I pointed out that I saw some HUGE HUGE gaps in a couple of your inletting jobs to a couple of people, and that you tried to hide them with some sort of brown hard grease?



Why would I sue you. You are entitled to your incorrect opinions.

22WRF (or whatever name), don't you want some cheese to go with that whine? Regards, Joe

Now all of a sudden everyone is attacking me.
How come nobody is saying anything about what Ted just said.

He said that Mr. Yamagishi took his grinding fixture. Nobody seems to care at all about that.



Kevin

Ladies and Gentlemen:

Is this a private fight, or can anyone join in?

I have a "stage name" (misspelled though, my fault) and my real name.

What does that make me?

Hey, I got my Blackburn trigger, and I'm getting a Duane Wiebe bottom metal for a 416 Ruger project. The trigger looks great, and can hardly wait to use it.

I bet the bottom metal will be top notch, too.

I love competition!

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

(Giggle) Can you imagine all the wasted energy if everytime a new stockmaker showed up on the ACGG roster we went thru all this bullshit?

I have never seen an existing stockmaker (or metalsmith) come up with the inuendos and charges and whining and complaining that I've seen in this excercise in futility

Maybe I should not have partaken...but I dunno..something about 22WRF really pisses me off! And then...there's Ted Blackburn accusation about Steve...Ted knows the whole post is a pack of lies..Get smart, Ted, hide the post!

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
Now all of a sudden everyone is attacking me.
How come nobody is saying anything about what Ted just said.

He said that Mr. Yamagishi took his grinding fixture. Nobody seems to care at all about that.



Kevin

22WRF
You know not of what you speak. The part of a fixture in question was a gift. I would be careful of whome you call a thief!


Ted,

It seems we remember things differently. When I came back there that time you had been trying to borrow money anywhere you could. I bought everything you had for sale trying to help you,(Mauser action,a barrel I did not need, and two or three pieces of bottom metal I did not need at the time). I then asked if I could have you build a copy of your grinding jig. You said no but you would give me the shaft and I could anything about owing you anything for it. You gave me a receitt for the the items I bought and it says nothing about a balance due for the shaft.

If you read the terms of the note you were to pay $576.00 by 06 May 08, if not paid by that date you were to deliver "four pieces of bottom metal, of a model and type fully agreeable to Steven G. Yamagishi". Since it seems that you want to go back on your word I will be happy to send the shaft back for payment or four pieces of bottom metal of my choice.

Ted, I do not want your bottom metal. All I want is for you to keep your word. We where friends for to long. If you would like to take this off the forum, call me.

Steve 510-517-6129