Ok, OK, I admit it. I was totally wrong about a couple of things that get asked about here all the time.

Crow #1: Dakota Safeties
I always said that all safeties require fitting, and sometimes the tolerances go in your favor, and sometimes they are stacked against you. Worked for 6 hours and 40 minutes on a Dakota safety for a Mauser and wound up throwing it. It had gotten to the point where I was a mission from God and determiend to make it work. Absolutley impossible. Everything was wrong on it and it was too far off to fix. I milled, ground, filed, staoned, and severely cursed it, all to no avail.

I hav ehad good luck with Lapour, Reckenagle, and Gentry (SS on M700's only).

Crow #B: PTG reamers
I am no longer endorsing Pacific Tool and Gauge. The orders always (as in 100% of the time) come in late.

For every 3 packages I get from them, one has to go back due to it being soemthing I did not order.

Broke a flute on a throater-not reamer-THROATER!-first time I sued it last week. First flute I ever broke on anything.

I have talked to Dave Kiff many times, and all he does is defend the ladies in th eoffice and swear they are right and I am wrong. Even when I have copies of written correspondence. Hey, I always protect my people too, whether it be people I managed or people working for me in my company. BUT...I don't automatically defend my people to any client who calls with a complaint and say the client is wrong and the ladies are right. THis is without even knowing the background, he jusr defends them and says me and others are wrong. When I ask him about problems friends of mine have had with PTG, he again says they are wrong and the ladies are right.

JGS will be my reamer of choice from here on out. PTG reamers always have cut great for me, but it is not worth the hastle when you look at how much time i have to waste with each order.

For whatever reason, M70 safeties start heated debates at times, and I am now correcting my initial position. Reamers, thankfully, are usually a more civil conversation. I fully admit to making bad reccomendations on each, especially the Dakota safety.

Don't rule out Manson's reamers. I use both Manson and JGS and they both send what you order. So far at least...

I was going to mention the "other Dave that makes reamers" but WP beat me to it.

DM has 1 girl in "the office" and she dosn't hesatate to place even a pion, like me, through to Dave to make sure that he and I are on the same page with the order BEFORE the chips & sparks start to fly.

quote:

Originally posted by Marc_Stokeld:

Crow #B: PTG reamers
For every 3 packages I get from them, one has to go back due to it being soemthing I did not order.

I have talked to XXXX many times, and all he does is defend the ladies in th eoffice and swear they are right and I am wrong. Even when I have copies of written correspondence. I don't automatically defend my people to any client who calls with a complaint and say the client is wrong and the ladies are right. THis is without even knowing the background, XXXX just defends them and says me and others are wrong. When I ask him about problems friends of mine have had, he again says they are wrong and the ladies are right.

JGS reamers always have cut great for me, when you look at how much time I have to waste with each order....

.

Marc -

I edited your post re: PTG to reflect my experience with JGS over the past 15 years. As you can see, it is still almost identical with your experience with PTG.

I suspect that in both cases it is really because of the changes in their business. I have heard JGS is not primarily in the reamer business, but actually in the aerospace tooling business. Likewise, PTG has gotten more into mass sales to places like Midway, rather than depending on individual orders.

For myself, I think I am going to try Manson and Forgreen for a while. Hugh Henricksen is also a great reamer-maker, but is often a year behind in his huge heap of orders from what my friends in the business tell me.

Sure wish I was young enough to invest in my own tooling and education to make my own reamers..... You're a skilled enough man and young enough, maybe you should think about doing that too?

I have a good friend that USED to use PTG reamers. He had the same experiences and more as Mark. Now he uses Manson. The school in Susanville uses Manson. I personally have had nothing but good experiences with PTG but am starting to figure I must be very lucky?

I was just about to order a .270 Win Reamer, maybe it will have to be a Manson.

I have had a lot of experience with Manson Reamers. With one exception they were all on time and to spec. The only time a reamer was late Dave Personally called and informed me that it would be late and when it would be finished. I have never had a bad experience with PTG. But after doing business with Manson I will always use him first.
Marc.
Have you ever used the 3 position saftey for Mausers that NECG sells? I do not know about the current ones, but they used to be made by Gol-Matic. I purchased 25 of them while I was In Germany. Got them for $35 USD each. They were awesome. Wish I had bought a hundred.

Dave Kiff called me this evening and we had a long talk. He told me some things that had been going on with the business and what he has done ot fix it. Ironically, one thing he has been dealing with happened to me in the past 18 months. Not with the gunshop, but with another business I had.

I gave straight and honest feedback in a very professional manner. I had also done this a few weeks ago. Both times, i just gave him feedback I want clients to give me in any business, or even clients of mine when I had a corporate job. He seemed receptive and to genuinely want things to be right. In summary, I gvae him feedback that hopefully will help him get the customer relations up to the same level that his reamers are.

I told him that I honestly don't know what I will do when it comes time to buy the next reamer. I honestly will consider PTG, but could not promise one way or the other.

H2o-

I have not installed those, but I had an action in the shop one time to barrel up and do other things to it, and it had one installed on it. At least I think it was-it came from NECG a while back, but was not a Reckenagle. I had it apart to do all of the work on the bolt and action, and it seemed good and went back together with no problems.

If you want to sell some at $35, I will buy all you have!

Marc.
I foolishly sold some and installed the rest. I did not think that they would gain in popularity like they have. I have a lot of friends in the trade in Germany, they have to pay more for one than we do. I made a few calls and I think the ones that NECG sells now are made by someone else and not Gol-Matic. As I only build double rifles now I have no experience with these newer safeties.

Marc:

I personally know most of the bigger named reamer makers in the United States. Most are top flight. When you are in business dealing with precision made tooling there are from time to time problems with raw materials, and the machining and grinding of tools. There is no excuse for poor service due to employees performance. I know of no one in the business who provides better quality tooling and customer service than Dave Kiff. He is very attentive to his customers needs and stands behind his tooling. I have been buying tooling from Dave Kiff and PT&G for several years without one unresolved issue. As for the ladies that work for Dave I could not ask for a more professional bunch. They are more knowedgeable than most and take very detail orders. I don't think Dave Kiff or PT&G need any defending. If a survey was taken on this forum you would find many more who think Dave Kiff and PT&G are first quality in their product and service. If you buy the same volume of reamers or tools from any other maker you will encounter some problems from time to time. I will bet you will not get any better resolution from these other tool makers.

Nathaniel G. Lambeth, Sr.
Custom Guns and Ammunition

I'm not into reamers as I have never used one.
If I were to buy one, I'd opt for a Dave Manson reamer. I met Dave about 20 years ago at a shooting range down state here in Michigan. His brother Andy introduced me to him. Andy is a gunsmith now living in Chama, NM. When he was in the Detroit area, he did a bunch of work on some of my rifles. I can say that both of the Manson boys are top drawer, very bright guys. And, honest as the day is long.

Don

h2o-

as far as I know, all of the current NECG safeties are made by Reckenagle. I could be worng, but that is my understanding. The NECG safety I mentioned above was a semi old one. I think it might have been one of the Golmatic units.

Another plug for Dave Manson.I do own a couple of PTG'S but have had them for 2 years

I have issues with reamers from all sources with the exception of Hugh Henriksen. Hugh wasn't always real fast but he was/is always real good. I've only bought one Manson reamer (I figured I should try one) and it's a just fine reamer. Regards, Bill.

I've not bought a lot of reamers but haveused Clymer, Manson, and PTG.....strange.....I've never had a complaint about any of them!

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
I've not bought a lot of reamers but haveused Clymer, Manson, and PTG.....strange.....I've never had a complaint about any of them!

Give it time.

I've used everyones reamers and have had many great ones and at least one crapper one from every maker. The most recent crapper is a Manson 204 ruger from Brownells. It would'nt cut a clean chamber out of stick of butter. I guess all my point is they all make good and bad ones and the customer service to fix them is everything. Have had good luck with JGS service but their wildcat prices have gone sky high.

Longshot, are you the guy that is partnered up with P T & G on some reamer stop gadget?
James

from 1978 until 2001 or so, all I ever used were by Keith Francis at JGS. When Jim Cuthbert (the J in JGS) died, the atmosphere changed a little there. Maybe it was just me...
I got a few cut by Dave Kiff, all were to spec. The past two years I have used Manson Reamers exclusively. Dara Stringer is the office lady, and she knows the technical side fairly well. She will also put you thru to Dave for answers.
I have no complaints as far a reamers cut to specs with anyone else I have used, but Dave Manson has ties to Hornady and got my 550 Gibbs reamer specs to Hornady and the dies they made match chamber specs!!

Rich
DRSS

"...if it ain't broke, you can't fix it. So just use it 'til you break it and then try to fix it..."

J Randal:

Yes, I have some joint ventures with Dave Kiff and PT&G. We make the Micrometer Adjustable Reamer Stops together. Dave has been more than professional in all my dealings with him. I have spent over $20,000.00 this fiscal year with PT&G. I have had some issues that all have been resolved quickly. Most before I even knew they existed. Again I will say Dave Kiff and PT&G are a first class.
Nathaniel G. Lambeth, Sr.

Here's a .416 Ruger reamer and go gauge I ordered from PTG that I just received.....

If I like it and it works as it should, I'll tell you.....if not, I'll tell Dave.....like it should be!

And just what in the hell do you mean by that?

Vapo,
and if you hate it, it's just a 416 AR reamer away from a much larger case.

When I order from JGS, I feel like I am dealing with idiots.

When I talk to Dave Manson I feel like I am the idiot, he is so succinct.