quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe (CG&R):
The "sloppy" can be fixed by clamping the bridge in formed clamps and heat the thin side while clamping dowm. Be sure to install a mandrel to keep from going too far.

I seldom find the need to do this, however.

Exactly, if you excercise care in selecting a "good" action to begin with this, or any other "fix" is seldom required.

There are many good actions out there, most of which do not hold any attraction for me. People are free to choose whichever floats their boat. Just because I happen to prefer the Mauser doesn't mean I feel the need to denigrate the remainder.

I find that all too often sporters based off Milsurp actions get a bad rap due to the fact that at one point they were very inexpensive and all too often "converted" by those with more enthusiasm than skill or knowledge. As a result, the finished product is more often than not, lesser in quality than the original Milsurp. I see this with Enfields, Springfield, and Mausers, etc. Mausers having been made in quantities that dwarfed the rest, were often the least expensive to acquire and thus seem to be found in "sporterized" configuration in greater numbers than the rest. Even when the conversion was done well, often the action used is one that probably should not have been selected but was used because it was available.

I have to be honest; if pre 64 Model 70s were the same price as a VZ24 action (which can be had for under $200) I would not touch a Mauser again. (Fortunately, 40 years ago I looked into the future and bought a boat load of them. ) But, for the hobbiest who is not paying labor, it is a great thing to use Mausers. For the pro, using a surplus action; not so much unless the customer insists, and pays.

...

Do not discount the self worth feeling that one gets from hobbies and home projects. There is an intangible value that one derives from such activities that can't be measured in money. For example, I would rather take to the field with something I created myself, no matter how bad it looked (as long as it performed), than go with a Mossberg that cost me $299 with scope. Pride in workmanship has no cash value but it does have value.

+1 on the self-worth comment. I am no expert, but have affair amount of skill- for me, the fact that I can point to something and see that it reflects what I put into it means a whole lot. Something about the Mauser just seems to make it more meaningful.

Doug
(yes, actually another Doug W)

From a factory rifle I can accept a lack of aesthetics. However something I create must both look and function well. I cannot accept the notion that as long as it works it is ok. If that is the case, why not stick with a factory rifle? Too many good shooting, decent looking, value priced models to choose from.

Pride in workmanshp does not allow me to go afield with something that looks bad. Seems something of a contradiction to me.

Beauty is in the eye of the creator; and if someone thinks their work is good and takes pride in it, who are you to say otherwise? I am sure that everyone is not as skilled as you, but they might take pride in it, nonetheless. Such talk smacks of gun snobbery.
Do it behind their backs.
Having said that, the hack jobs of the 1950s are gone as a hobby and most amateurs do at least a passible job.

Beauty is indeed in the eye of the creator; and if someone thinks their work is good and takes pride in it, who am I to say otherwise? I agree. I will not tell them their creation is ugly no matter how much I think so unless asked for my opinion.

However, I was saying that pride in workmanshp does not allow ME to go afield with something that looks bad. Personal standards, standards of workmanship, not snobbery.

"If you hate it so much, why did you proceed with the build? Makes no sense to me."

I had it on hand. IT was a 257R. That caliber is of no use to me. I wanted a 35 Whelen. In my area I must use copper bullets. I figured bigger is better. I looked at it and figured I already had the whole rifle gathering dust. The stock was an old Bishop with pleanty of extra wood. I had a new sorbathane pad. The rebarrel is easy. The barrel was cheap. I had my Whelen for about 120 bucks. I also like to keep some project going at all times.

Why would resale value be a consideration when building a personal rifle?

same reason a car or PU is.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
same reason a car or PU is.

I don't think about resale on a pick up either. Usually when I get done with one there isn't much left to sell.

I am reminded of a deal struck down by this President reguarding numerous M1 Garrands that South Korea wanted to allow Americans to buy.

Dont mean to get too political in the Gunsmithing forum, but I cant help but wonder how much the current state of anti-gun attitude in our nations capitol has effected availability and pricing of Milsurp Mausers. It has certianly driven the cost of everything else about shooting through the roof.

Seems like people look at a Mauser and see different things. Sure a new factory action is going to be tighter, at least for a while. But personaly I prefer the Mauser bottom metal and triggerguard over an el cheapo blind magazine and plastic triggerguard, I prefer CRF over push feed, I like having an all steel action as opposed to sheet metal and even plastic parts. When I look at a Mauser action I see reliability and labor intensive machined steel parts. And I have had enough of cheaper made actions to appreciate the difference.

For me at least cost and resale never entered my thoughts.

I started as one of the legion of garage gunsmiths out there. I started with Mauser actions to simply learn on. Sure, I could get any commercial action that is all pretty and done, then restock it. What fun is that?

Cutting, welding, grinding, filing, polishing, finding wood for it, shaping that wood, inletting it, then throwing it out, finding new wood, inletting that one properly, shaping that one, bluing the metal, rebluing the metal due to stupidity, finishing the wood, checkering it, sanding off the checkering, refinishing it, sending to someone who can checker because I can't, then assembling it all into something that I created.

It was frustrating, educating, fun, and I have something no one else has. And possibly would never purchase, but it is mine.

Then you shoot a good group with your first build. Then you shoot your first animal with it. You don't forget that.

And now I have quite a few under my belt, and I've built on several other makes. They all work the same, and do the job, but the extra work a Mauser takes to make it beautiful is worth my time.

I would say the same for an Enfield or Springfield.

My current project is a 375 Ruger on a Santa Barbara action going into a Mannlicher stock. Where are you going to buy that combination?

Jeremy

quote:

Originally posted by ElCaballero:
Why would resale value be a consideration when building a personal rifle?

I agree.

quote:

Originally posted by farbedo:
....My current project is a 375 Ruger on a Santa Barbara action going into a Mannlicher stock. Where are you going to buy that combination?

Jeremy

Ought to be down right handy! Looking forward to pics.

quote:

Originally posted by farbedo:

Cutting, welding, grinding, filing, polishing, finding wood for it, shaping that wood, inletting it, then throwing it out, finding new wood, inletting that one properly, shaping that one, bluing the metal, rebluing the metal due to stupidity, finishing the wood, checkering it, sanding off the checkering, refinishing it, sending to someone who can checker because I can't, then assembling it all into something that I created.

Jeremy

Sounds just like one of my projects!

I've had lots of do-overs. Only difference is that my checkering is "good enough", (for me at least) and I haven't outsourced that. About the only thing I send out is welding bolt handles. Because I've tried and failed...

I hope they're not out of fashion, I just finished sanding the stock today for one of my favorites I have built. Just ready to start oiling it tomorrow.

This rifle has had three different configurations since I found it behind a washing machine at an estate sale and purchased it for $15 in the early 1980's. It is an Amberg 1917. It was a cut off military stock, no bottom metal, and an original barrel.

In it's current configuration, I have done the following:

Contoured the receiver, removed the stripper clip. Reshaped the trigger guard. Forged down the bolt handle. Installed 3 position Recknagel safety. Installed M-70 type trigger. Built custom stock, limbsaver pad. Rebarreled to 429 express. Built the express sight base and fitted 3 leaf sight. Installed Ramp front (not on it in photo's). Fit model 70 type sling swivel at rear and band swivel at front. All told, I think I have about $1050 in the parts for it, and I did all the work myself except for the blueing. Still need to install and regulate the folding leafs, blue and final install the barrel band, and blue the sling swivel rear base. And, about 40 coats of oil on the stock.

I've got a lot of satisfaction out of doing this myself, regardless of the resale value.

dave

What ssdave said, plus one!

Like quite a few of the AR members, I have a couple rifle projects in process. A 404 Jefferys on a VZ-24, a 450/375 Ultra Mag on the OM 70 that James Kobe had listed for sale here about three months ago, and a delightful tapered full octagon barrel on an FN commercial action in 257 Roberts. And a YUGO 48 that I want to do a mannlicher stocked carbine on in 358 Win, and then I horse traded into an Interarms Mark X Magnum factory blued "D" action NIB with a 458 barrel and 50 new Hornady 458 Lott cases. A Whitworth, with both markings. The "D" magazine box will take up to a 3.6" length case. Say the Lott or a 404 J or a RUM, or the equivalent length cartridge.

All those actions/barreled actions are becoming rifles in cartridges I wanted to own. I am less than an hour from Chris/Walnut Grove Gunstocks, and I can justify the drive up every other Monday with a friend to look at new wood.

I am not special. I just like the dependability and nostalgic appeal of OM 70's and good 98 Mausers.

There are a lot of us out there. We want as nice a blank as the budget will allow, and you will spend a lot more money to get that from any factory.

Rich

This was a fun discussion, I decided to dredge it back up!

I love Mausers and have never had a custom rifle built on anything else.

As a peruser of several classifieds it seems hard to sell a Mauser these days.

Everybody should have at least one!

I like Mausers just fine. I have built over 40 rifles in my life. I go through stages. I want a Mauser with the clip charge intact, I want it with the hump removed, etc. Now the availability of parts is changing; it is hard to find a Timney Sportsman tigger for 98's these days.

I have more than once questioned myself as to why I spend so much time and effort to make a mod 98 or 03 Springfield into a Win 70 and then just start using pre 64 Win 70's from the start. Of course the cycle has to repeat it self.

Or just use a Ruger MKII.

The rifle every Mauser action wants to be.

Double bridged, control feed, 3 position safety modern steel.

Nice rifle Mike!

I actually believe there's a resurgence in walnut stocks and blued metal generally, and Mauser actions (or custom variants) in particular. I believe the pendulum is swinging back from the black rifle and plastic stocked Rem 700 obsession of the last 20 years.

I don't know a gunmaker that's not two years backed up, and a good percentage of my clients are in their 40's and 50's. Gives one real hope for the future of the trade.

It is not the Mauser that is out of fashion; it is the upbringing of all new shooters and hunters who eschew anything made of wood, and often, not self loading and black plastic. Wood is weak, and costa too much; plastic is cheap and never breaks. Custom metal? Why bother, when that $350 Mossberg (and the more expensive Ruger), will do anything a $5000 custom rifle will do.
You guys are confusing performance in the field with hand crafted works of art.
Young guys do not want the latter.
Custom makers are backlogged? Sure, for about 5 more years; look around at the ages of the customers.
Those all will be sold by the kids for ten cents on the dollar.

Well you know what. CZ had a good line of Mauser actions and they quit it for their new modern bolt action. Well apparently since they own Colt, Colt wanted a bolt rifle with their name on it. CZ made one on their new model, but apparently they've had so much trouble with it that CZ is disontinuing the Colt rifle permanently. Bring back the freaking Mauser actions, there's nothing wrong with them, the problem is in the heads of the shooters today.

Call me boring but I like my primary hunting rifles to feel the same. My medium bores all on commercial FN actions with 3 position safeties. 280 AI, 300 Win. and 35 Whelen. No frills, but they always work.

[IMG:left] [/IMG]

Bring back the 98 Mauser action? It will never happen on a production basis; way too expensive to make and the modern designs made from bar stock are stronger, and far cheaper to make. Hence the most popular designs on the market today, are not Mausers.
Say goodbye to them, except for the ones already extant But new ones at a mass market price; no.
I have about 50 or so of them.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
It is not the Mauser that is out of fashion; it is the upbringing of all new shooters and hunters who eschew anything made of wood, and often, not self loading and black plastic. Wood is weak, and costa too much; plastic is cheap and never breaks. Custom metal? Why bother, when that $350 Mossberg (and the more expensive Ruger), will do anything a $5000 custom rifle will do.
You guys are confusing performance in the field with hand crafted works of art.
Young guys do not want the latter.
Custom makers are backlogged? Sure, for about 5 more years; look around at the ages of the customers.
Those all will be sold by the kids for ten cents on the dollar.

You are correct. The same can be said for the outfitting industry. When the Boomers are no longer out and about, the customer base for outfitters is going to be a LOT smaller. A decade from now there will be a forced shrink in the number of outfitters globally.

Not around here. busy as ever.

Sure, for now. What is the median age of your clientele? I no longer see anyone under 55 (usually 65) wanting anything resembling what we all like.
In fact, most of them want black rifles, and barrels cut and threaded for silencers. Wood, blue, $5000 custom? Not here any more.

Many thousands of collectible Mausers are coming back on the market as us old fellers are passing on. Just like dpcd said, the kids are selling them off. Right now, one of the big auction houses has a "mother lode" of K98k's up for bid. Over 400 Mausers in all. There is also a growing number of young collectors who do appreciate the craftmanship and are restoring worn examples.

The very premise of the question makes me feel ill. It's akin to asking "has good taste gone out of fashion"... if it has, then let me be part of this shrinking group. I've in my 80's and started working at a custom gunshop when I was 15. They taught me so much and after 67 years of loving and collecting fine rifles (unfortunately selling too many as well) I still love a refined Mauser. There's just something about them that always grabs the heart-strings. Mausers aren't a fad they're a corner-stone...

Collecting Kar98ks (I have eery year and variation including the VKs) and building custom rifles on Mauser actions are two entirely different things, albeit still connected by the age of the consumer.
For example, young guys and girls barely know what WW2 was.
When the Germans bombed Pearl Baily? Something like that.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Collecting Kar98ks (I have eery year and variation including the VKs) and building custom rifles on Mauser actions are two entirely different things, albeit still connected by the age of the consumer.
For example, young guys and girls barely know what WW2 was.
When the Germans bombed Pearl Baily? Something like that.

Do you have the last ditch 98 Mauser? My best friend had one dated one month before the end of the war. It had the crudely rountered laminate wood stock, all furniture was stamped. and the rear sight was fixed like the last ditch Arisaka rifle. It was all matching serial numbers and it appeared unfired.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
For example, young guys and girls barely know what WW2 was.
When the Germans bombed Pearl Baily? Something like that.

You need to get out more. The world is thankfully not what you think in a great many area's.

quote:

Originally posted by shootermetal:
My best friend had one dated one month before the end of the war. It had the crudely rountered laminate wood stock, all furniture was stamped. and the rear sight was fixed like the last ditch Arisaka rifle. It was all matching serial numbers and it appeared unfired.

Post pictures of it here:
https://www.k98kforum.com/foru...5-the-nazi-period.6/

If you want to sell it and get top dollar, there are collectors there who will give it, IF it is a good correct example.

The more quality pictures, the better the response you will get.

quote:

Originally posted by Fal Grunt:

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
For example, young guys and girls barely know what WW2 was.
When the Germans bombed Pearl Baily? Something like that.

You need to get out more. The world is thankfully not what you think in a great many area's.

quote:

Originally posted by shootermetal:
My best friend had one dated one month before the end of the war. It had the crudely rountered laminate wood stock, all furniture was stamped. and the rear sight was fixed like the last ditch Arisaka rifle. It was all matching serial numbers and it appeared unfired.

Post pictures of it here:
https://www.k98kforum.com/foru...5-the-nazi-period.6/

If you want to sell it and get top dollar, there are collectors there who will give it, IF it is a good correct example.

The more quality pictures, the better the response you will get.

Unfortunately my friend passed on and didn't make a will on purpose. He has a son and a daughter. The daughter was
no good unfortunately, basically a whore and druggie. She took what guns she could not knowing her brother hid some after talking to me what to grab. So some POS is hunting deer in a northeast state and doesn't have a clue what the rifle is really worth.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Sure, for now. What is the median age of your clientele? I no longer see anyone under 55 (usually 65) wanting anything resembling what we all like.
In fact, most of them want black rifles, and barrels cut and threaded for silencers. Wood, blue, $5000 custom? Not here any more.

I don't actually put any time into that metric but I can say my youngest client right now is 23 years old and on board for a wood stocked all in 375 H&H where I've made the action from bar stock. On the other end, 74 years old and a titanium K actioned rifle in wood in 250-3000, just about done with that one. There is no rhyme or reason to it and no point in trying to figure it out, it simply is what it is.

I have many last ditch Kar98ks. They aren't dated by month and most of the parts were not numbered on these late ones, but your friend's rifle is gone so it doesn't matter. And the sights are not like an Arisaka. On the VK98, they are a square notch sight dovetailed into the receiver ring; is that what he had?
FAL; yes, I talk to young people all the time; they do not know history and do not want old military rifles.
Of course there is always one exception with any trend.
And here, 24 year olds do not order high end full custom wood stocked rifles. Mainly they want threaded barrels so they can put a silencer on one. Local gun shops here can't even sell a factory wood stock. Whenever they get any old Mauser sporter, they call me and sell it to me for %75.