I've been "away" from the custom gun building for awhile. Not that I was building them, just having them built. Most were just projects not full blown customs. Something about having three kids makes one's money seem short.

Recently I've been kicking around the idea of a couple of projects and doing some price research etc. I noticed that there didn't seem to be as many Mauser actions and pieces (bottom metal, barrels etc) being traded around. Has the "fad" passed. Now I know the Mauser 98 action has been around for 116 years and is still a huge influence on everything bolt action. But has the idea of building on them waned? Or is it easier now to find actions with the Mauser characteristics such as CRF that people find desirable? Are there enough folks supplying after market trigger guards, bottom metal and safeties now that the "trade" of such things is less?

Or is all of this just my misperception?

Fine guns are mostly on Mausers and Winchesters, Remington pattern actions in tupperware are increasingly more common.

Do more research and you will find the Mauser is not dead. Still a lot of them used.

Well I'm not saying it's dead or even dying. It just seems to me that 10 years ago everyone from the finest builders to the kitchen table gunsmiths were looking for some form of the 98.

Economics.
The supply of unmolested mauser actions has dried up and gone up in price.

Doesn't make a lot of financial sense (ignoring other reasons)for the average guy to spend say $600 and a lot of hours to sporterize a mauser and have a rifle with a $400 or less resale value.

Real wages have been stagnant for 40 years, the middle class is shrinking, healthcare, education, energy and food costs have risen substantially.
Less expendable money for hobbies.

I see it all the time on CL and Ebay.
Something that would have sold quickly and for a decent price now languishes for weeks or months and sells for far less.

Unless one has the large bucks for a really high grade Mauser build,
Id rather spend say the much less amount of [$3500?] on a very high quality rem700 clone in a McMillan.
ie; Borden action installed in the Echols Legend pattern.

There used to be a sea of milsurp Mausers that you could pick up for next to nothing and customize away. Now they are becoming more scarce and rising in price so instead of picking up a donor for $100 it might cost you $300. Might as well start with a Rem or Win for that price that will take less work especially if you are a hobbiest like me.

It's all about where the money is for such projects. Many of us who ooohhh and aaahhh over Mausers, pre-64 Winchesters, and get a woody when we stumble onto a $200 diamond-in-the rough find at a gun show are fading away.

There is still money being spent on custom rifles, but 'tactical' seems to be where the money trail leads. My younger co-workers (and my own son!) aren't interested in Mausers, but get all excited about black rifles and the latest sniper stuff. They can sit around for hours discussing this upper or that vertical grip, what magazine they like, and a source for parts and ammo. They ooohh and aahhh over a nine pound black rifle that looks like a tool box and costs more than my first new car. Take a look at the gun shows and what the under 40 crowd is looking at (and buying). Very few are buying our generations stuff.

But this is not a bad thing. Times change and new technology evolves. I remember my Grandfather thinking scopes on rifles were stupid. I remember in the early 60's my Dad looking at barrels of Mauser rifles for sale at a gun shop for $20 bucks each and questioning why anybody would want one of those gnarly things when there were shiny brand new rifles on the nearby rack for under $100.

It's over, send all of your actions to me for burial.

quote:

Originally posted by Woodhits:
It's over, send all of your actions to me for burial.

OK, send me money and I will. How many do you want, Mausers, model 70's??

I think also that the Mauser rifles themselves, in unmodified militay form, if German issued, are becoming collectable in the mainstream.

The Nazis aren't making any since the Third Reiceh went out of business in 1945 and WWI Mausers are well...approaching a century old.

So in themselves they now have a "worth" that maybe exceeds their value in a home gunsmithed poorly executed sporter?

I'd suppose that South American Mausers never had an intrinsic value, as such, when compared with a German Army or Navy Mauser.

But supplies of stuff from South America must have been drying up even when Sam Cummins was active.

I think Mausers are just cool; either the originals or the new ones that are being built today by GMA and several companies in Germany. People don't use them to save money anymore.

From a utility perspective, I'd start with a Remington 700 and Howa 1500 action. If you want something new, but still CRF, then Winchester.

I have the same dilemma. Prices are going up and how much do you want to invest in an older rifle? I recently got a nice Husqvarna 9.3x57 on a M98. Stock was crap, so using for a pattern stock and rechambering to 9.3x62. All in when I'm done (rifle, new stock blank, pattern copy, new handle, reblue, rechamber, checkering, my labor on the stock) I will have about $1,300-$1,400 into a custom rifle. Not bad, but I could have also bought a new Tikka 9.3x62 for $700 or so.

I'm contemplating a 318 WR currently. Trying to find a reasonably priced donor action. Also thinking about using a Winchester 70 or just getting a new action from GMA or one of the German manufacturers. Now you are talking real money there. And I think, well I pretty good at stocks, but that much for an action, I might want to have a customer gunmaker do the whole thing, which is even more money, or buy an original Westley Richards made 318 and have it reconditioned by them.

the cost incentive to start with a 98 is gone ... its now at least equal in cost to start with a m70 clone, than to build a m98-m70 clone

quote:

Is the Mauser fad passed?

It has with me. It took a while though.

KB

True, if you have to pay someone to do the work, you are better off buying a new commercial action. But for the person who does his own work, the 98 Mauser is still a highly viable, economic option. Good thing I stocked up with a bushcl basket full of them back in the '70s.

quote:

Is the Mauser fad passed?

Not at all.

Having a high grade[bespoke?]mauser was never really inexpensive,
But like collecting old rare Ferraris,it never really gets any cheaper.
And as the prices go up, there be less people in 'that category' of being able to afford to do so.
An orig. Corvette L88 spec['pre-64' of cars?] recently went for $3.4 million.
Fangios 1954 Grand Prix winning Mercedes, sold for $30 million. ....and it came unwashed,
[with the orig. dead bugs still splattered on its panels from the race!]...

Well the general consensus seems to be the economics. I wonder why the Interarms Mark X never was popular for custom rifles. I would think that they would need less work than a military action and cost the same or less if you buy a complete rifle and strip it selling off whatever you don't want. Also no hardness issues. Of course having INTERARMS emblazoned across the left side of your action doesn't exactly scream "top shelf custom".

Most Mark X's I have seen were badly overpolished. It would take almost as much work to true one up as it would to start with a military 98.

quote:

Originally posted by Glen71:
Most Mark X's I have seen were badly overpolished. It would take almost as much work to true one up as it would to start with a military 98.

Funny [sadly?] enough Ive seen supposedly high grade bolt rifle builds that cost well into the double figure thousands,
with metal edges/corners rounded-distorted[drooped] over, from what I consider very poor efforts at polishing....

I used a lot of Herters J9s, which were just MkXs. cost $65, finished barreled action. But a complete Model 70 win also cost $125 at the same time, so it was still, then, and now, money.

I have one that was built on a Charles Daly. My favorite has always been the commercial FN though. I see on GunBroker.com that you can still find a J.C. Higgins Mod 50 for around $400.

...

I'd never considered it a "fad", any more than Pre-64 Models are.

Push feed based custom rifles, there's a fad for you. And a losing proposition in most cases. There does not seem to be much of a used market for them.

Rich

Back in the 1950's my late dad made tooling for High Standard when they were making the Sears M50 & M51 rifles on the FN actions.

I still have his rifle.

I have one 'custom' someone made up on a 98.

Overall it's much easier and faster to buy a factory rifle.

With some, yes. With others, no. Years ago I told myself I had enough pretty blued steel wood stocked rifles. I 've since had (3) customs built on Mauser 98s and another in the works and a 09 Argie in waiting and another to put together for my Godson.

G'Day Fella's,

El Caballero, the 98 Mauser thing is not a Fad, it's more of a Life Style!
Literally!!!

Hell, even Mauser have their new 1898 actions, back in production!

Doh!
Homer

After 40 years of using and sporterizing 98 Mausers, I've finally realised why big-game hunters even love the clunky flag safety: If you walk around with the flag up, it's the one safety you can't forget WTSHTF.

quote:

I'd never considered it a "fad", any more than Pre-64 Models are.
Push feed based custom rifles, there's a fad for you. And a losing proposition in most cases.
There does not seem to be much of a used market for them.

Well theres one thing for sure, American machine shops making quality Push-Feed rem700 clones are numerous and seem to survive.
American machine shops making Mauser/M70 CRF design actions are but few, most have gone down the Shit shoot,struggle to survive,
or could never really make their proposed 'fad' business model work.

Has the Chevy fad passed so that we can all agree to like Fords?

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktailer:
There used to be a sea of milsurp Mausers that you could pick up for next to nothing and customize away. Now they are becoming more scarce and rising in price so instead of picking up a donor for $100 it might cost you $300. Might as well start with a Rem or Win for that price that will take less work especially if you are a hobbiest like me.

I agree. When I began rolling my own from milsurps and pre-bubba'd 98's a guy could shop around and build a quality rifle for about the same cost as a new, lesser factory rifle with plastic parts, push feed and a tupperware stock. But I think the supply of inexpensive Mauser actions is drying up and the cost effectiveness isnt what it used to be for the kitchen table project guy. I picked up a not so clean M-48 at a gun show recently for $200.00, it was considered a good deal. 5 years ago I was getting much better M-48's for only about $125.00.

Full blown customs will probably never die.

That suits me personaly though. Ive been spending too much time building rifles and not enough shooting them. It has also driven up the value of my rifles. Got about a dozen now, and when I finish the ones I have (if that ever happens) Im done and its time to hit the hills and maybe even cull the herd a bit..

Wes, I sure hope it hasn't. I am almost finished with the one you sold me about 4 years ago.

A fad? A fad doesn't last 114 years.

Jerry Liles

Well let's say you build two nearly identical custom rifles, same barrels, same cartridge, same sights, same quality of wood, and so on. One rifle is built on a $400 Remington 700 action and one on a $400 Waffenfabrik Mauser action.

So, then say you sell the rifles. You lose some money on the custom Mauser maybe, but you get your ass handed to you on the Remington action rifle.

That's my 2 cents anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by larrys:
Wes, I sure hope it hasn't. I am almost finished with the one you sold me about 4 years ago.

I'd sure like to see it when you get it done!

How to lose your ass on a custom rifle: build it on anything but an OM 70 (or the new version with CRF) or a solid M98/crf CZ.

Just think of all those thousands and thousands of mausers locked up in some movie suppliers warehouses and the leverguns, pistols etc...they could make a mint selling them off now that every movie is full of black guns.

For the work that goes into making a custom CRF out of a military POS I would start with a modern commercial M98 clone and have a much nicer rig without all the expense of grinding and milling and magazine monkey motion/bottom metal/front sight-rear sight futzing around.

BUT...I think everyone should have to go through that roundy-roundy to appreciate just what we have in the modern world, and how relatively CHEAP it is.

I just finished a 98 FN 400. It is a comercial 98 action. I rebarreled it, did a nice stock. My obsercations, The safety is a Buehler type, very awkward. To fix that I would do a M-70 type, unobtanium right now. The second choice is a trigger with a safety and a plain bolt shroud, 100-bucks. The floor plate is a military type with the button that makes the whole thing fall off. Pretty awfull.

The bolt is sloppy loose. I know, I know, they are supposed to be that way. It still bothers me. It even bothers me on up scale English spoeters made by famous shops. The sloppy bolt fit makes sense in the trenches but, not on a fine sporting rifle.

I would much prefer to work on a pre-64 M-70. I have also done a bunch of 1917s and '14s. I think they make a better sporter, more work though. I think a lot of the appeal of the '98 is that anyone can make a passable sporter by swapping parts.

quote:

Originally posted by Scota4570:
I just finished a 98 FN 400. It is a comercial 98 action. I rebarreled it, did a nice stock. My obsercations, The safety is a Buehler type, very awkward. To fix that I would do a M-70 type, unobtanium right now. The second choice is a trigger with a safety and a plain bolt shroud, 100-bucks. The floor plate is a military type with the button that makes the whole thing fall off. Pretty awfull.

The bolt is sloppy loose. I know, I know, they are supposed to be that way. It still bothers me. It even bothers me on up scale English spoeters made by famous shops. The sloppy bolt fit makes sense in the trenches but, not on a fine sporting rifle.

I would much prefer to work on a pre-64 M-70. I have also done a bunch of 1917s and '14s. I think they make a better sporter, more work though. I think a lot of the appeal of the '98 is that anyone can make a passable sporter by swapping parts.

If you hate it so much, why did you proceed with the build? Makes no sense to me.

...

Quality M98 actions, bolts etc. are getting more expensive, no question about that. Maybe diminishing supply and perhaps also driven by internet/auction influence on price.

Does that indicate that the 'Fad' is passing? Maybe it indicates just the opposite... I do not know, or care.

All that I know is that M98s are the only bolt actions that are of interest to me anymore. Even those beautiful, solid & smooth pre-64 M70s have lost their allure for me.