quote:

Originally posted by 35404:
If you read the entire thread you will see that the fellow doing the welding was to get it funtioning, the grinding and polishing was the owners baby.If one had the jigs made up for clamping for welding I think one could cut and weld only in 3 hr. or less. There would be at least a day of fitting and finishing.It's taken me 20 yr. and still not done. Mark

If all you do is the cutting and welding (no clean up or fitting) how in the world can you also include “functioning†into the package?

Wouldn’t it seem reasonable that the interior welds in the rails would need to be cleaned/ground/polished in order to fit the new shortened bolt to see if the action “functioned?†And how would you check the new bolt for functioning if you didn’t clean/grind and polish it first?

Wouldn’t it also be reasonable to assume that the same clean/grind/polish would need to be done on the inside of the new shortened mag box and follower in order to test for functioning?

Do you really believe that someone could do all of that work in 3 hours?

I would think there is a difference between funtioning and finished. On mine the inside welds are not perfect and took little grinding to allow the lugs to pass.Polishing and stoning will still be done. The mag box I have near done is only welded on the outside, with good metal dispersion through the spots. I will leave it that way, polished and blued.
Looking at the artile posted, using a detachable mag from Rem. 788 would be an option worth considering.In the past we have made our own mags.
I showed this thread to Earl, our resident semi-retired machinist, and now he's got a bone on to try this for himself.He's 74 so he may not live to see it completed. We'll see how it goes. I asked him about finishing the two that I started but he was not interested. There are some turks around here, so maybe a turkington 375 and 250 Savage?? Mark

Mark,

I agree that functioning and finished aren’t the same...but how do you even test for functioning without cleaning things up? Are this guys welds so perfect that the bolt body (that has been welded togehter) will fit into the action without any grinding/polishing and fitting?

Forgot about the bolts. I bored and sleeved them. Not looking at them right now but I think they are joined just back of the collar cut. You are right one would be stretching it to do them both in 3 hr. even if you were set up. I ground off the guide rib from the short one and butt welded and turned it off. I think I left the rib on the longer one so must have just ground it.I understand your point that 100 is too cheap but this is as much a machine shop job as gunsmith work.I hope it works out for the fellow that started this as these will be conversation pieces for sure. FWIW, Earl looked at those greasey turks and mumbled something about not worth the trouble, got in his truck and headed home. We'll see if he changes his mind. Mark

Mark,

You misunderstood me, and/or I didn’t explain myself well. I could care less what someone charges for their work, that is between them and their customers. If a guy wants to work for free or for lunch and a beer that is none of my business.

What I find amusing is people that come on here and claim that a certain gunsmithing job can be done a certain way (normally described as no big deal) and in some ridiculously short period of time.

Even owing to the fact that us amateurs (myself included) are probably allot slower at most gunsmithing jobs than more experienced guys are, these one hour (or less) barreling jobs and three hour shortening receiver jobs are still pretty funny to anyone who has ever spent any time at all on a lathe or a mill.

It was stated on here that this guy returned two receivers that were “functioning†and only needed outside clean up and polishing. My question was how one could cut a receiver in half, shorten a bolt and magazine/trigger guard and weld them all back together and then function test it without first doing some amount of clean-up/grinding/fitting, etc.

Perhaps I have a different definition of the word “function?â€

The welds on the bolts, inside the receiver, and the firing got cleaned up enough to function.


The welds on the outside of the receiver and outside of the mag box were left rough.


In general cleaning up TIG welds:

If a part is round, I can chuck in the lathe and go through 8 levels of smoothness in 15 minutes.

If a part is not round and I have to file and spin scotch brite on a arbor, it takes allot longer.

I also used the 100 as an expression of time rather than actual $. $100 would get you 1.25 hr. here. It prob. took us a full day of jacking around to get the jigs in order etc. Although it's a different deal when you do it for 'fun' Mark

Dad always told me to compare my estimates to the results and let him know IF I ever do a job on anything that takes less than twice as long and costs less than three times as much.

George

George,
funny enough, when I was running a commerical and industrial coatings company, the old man had taught me "take you best guess at cost, divide it by 3, then multiply that by 5.... and double the result, and you will probably break even"....



Thinking I want to send this fella a pair of yugo 48 actions... one for 250 sav and another for ........ i dunno what at this momment
jeffe

I made my first shortened M98 some 16 years ago back at ColoradoScoolofTrades. My instructor was not to entusiastic about the project, so I made many desicions myself.
The extractor I cut to lenght, cutted of the "shoe" at the rear that rests against the bolt, and silver soldered the two pieces together. I still works flawlessly. For the latter I have made, I have fitted a new shoe on the underside to hide the solder, but I still solder them. Works great. I also solder the bolt and fiering pin, making a male and female and a tiny hole for the recess silver.

But I can tell right off, this 100 dollar man, he is not making money.

Bent,
One thing to consider with the soldered fireing pin is that should the solder joint ever fail while there is a round in the chamber it will fire without notice and it wont make a differance if the safety is on or not. I would take the fireing pin out and check the solder joint regularly.
Timan

quote:

Originally posted by Timan:
Bent,
One thing to consider with the soldered fireing pin is that should the solder joint ever fail while there is a round in the chamber it will fire without notice and it wont make a differance if the safety is on or not. I would take the fireing pin out and check the solder joint regularly.
Timan

In teory, yes, but not if the soldering is done correctly. A correct done soldering is a lot stronger than most people thinks, and I trust it as I would a weld. A bad weld, on the other hand, is just as unsafe as a bad soldering. Yes?

Silver Solder is 6 to 8 times stronger than lead -tin solder joints and approaches, at the top, the bottom end of steel strengths ~ 58 ksi.

quote:

Originally posted by tnekkcc:
Silver Solder is 6 to 8 times stronger than lead -tin solder joints and approaches, at the top, the bottom end of steel strengths ~ 58 ksi.

Very true.

The proper name for the process is brazing, not soldering, and a properly brazed joint can be as strong and in some cases stronger than the base metal being joined.

The only real difference between welding and brazing is that brazing is done at a temperature lower than the melting point of the material[s] being joined and welding is done at a temperature above that point.

Yes, brazing, of course.
Thanks, Rick, for setting me stright!

I got the long parts back.
He is now doing the follower, bottom plate, and extractor for the short one.
I still have not paid the $100 yet.

Here is a shorty all done up and ready to go. This is how they are supposed to look!

http://www.hallowellco.com/roger_green_short%20Mauser.htm

FARMYARD GUNSMITHING PTY LTD
"The impossible we can do straight away!
Miracles take a little longer...."

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
Here is a shorty all done up and ready to go. This is how they are supposed to look!

http://www.hallowellco.com/roger_green_short%20Mauser.htm

That's a gorgeous rifle.....very well done.....

As it turns out the only person I know that has done a shortened Mauser of that caliber and he was truly good at it is now out of the gun business and is making.....of all things....poole cues!!.....what a waste!